WHAT is the PLAN if they STEAL it AGAIN?

[Stephanie]

Who's organizing it? WHEN do we move? WHERE are we going? Do we march in our town centers, do we walk out of work, general strike? Are we all heading to DC? WHAT is the PLAN? I'd seriously like to know. If we wake up on Wednesday morning and the exit polls are "wrong" again and the lines were too long in Dem territory and the machines didn't work and and the upsets are inexplicable and The Math prevails, WHAT are we going to do about it???

Seriously, I want to know. If I have to organize it myself I will do it.

[zonkers]

1. Have you been to Verifiedvoting.org?

[Stephanie]

4. thanks but I'm talking about the Day After

Here's verified voting: http://www.verifiedvoting.com /

But they are working on a different issue. I want to know what we are going to DO the next day if they steal it. Not just by griping on the internets. We have to hit the streets in the biggest way EVER.

[zonkers]

14. If the past is any indication we will do nothing. I am no legal expert

but I suspect that an emergency injunction that can be filed in court to freeze results from a specific area that is suspicious...but I have little faith that could go anywhere. Maybe our future really depends on a brave whistleblower.

[bobbolink]

62. I think you got it.

Either a

or screaming on a forum...

then.... silence....

But, don't you dare say anything *before* the election... that's just negative, donchaknow...

[SoCalDem]

97. That's what will happen. The press will drop it like a hot potato

label anyone who "doubts" as a "conspiracy nut"..and they will go back to reports of what will kill you this week, and which college girl is missing or how LOW gas prices are.

The ONE thing that drove the protests of the 60's was the PRESS.. They were all over it... Front and center..

We no longer have that.

Most radio/tv/papers are NOT left-leaning, or even middle of the road,, so look for "excuses" about how they TOLD us the gap was narrowing..and how it's impossible to do exit polls and how reliable the vaporvote machines are..

the lucky winners who managed to get in, will be so happy, that they will think the system works just fine..and the whole voting fiasco will go back on the shelf until a month before the next election..right alongside all the neatly folded bloody shirts.

[JRob]

161. This is why we need to act... the whole concept of "Think globally

act locally" can be viewed from another perspective. If we can start a movement to "STRIKE, SLOW DOWN, BOYCOTT!!!" my post from May 2005

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

people can get the attention of the Gov/Corps and potentially affect a change in the direction of our country. Everyone can do this from where they live and it's peaceful.

They can manipulate votes, fix legislation, steal pensions and ship jobs over seas but they can not force you to buy their products and services or chain you to a desk or assembly line.

There are a lot of alternatives to feeding the beast that's eating us alive...

[petgoat]

185. "ONE thing that drove the protests of the 60's was the PRESS."

Also a lively underground press.

Which underground has largely, with the exception of a few brave
articles now and then, been turned into weeklies that mostly
review restaurants and movies.

[robinlynne]

85. yes.

[Imagevision]

96. Start organizing, let me know what you come up with, I'm in...!

[Maraya1969]

117. I for one will NOT roll over. If this election is stolen I will fight! And I

am sure I will be instructed where and how to fight.

[orleans]

127. this is why everyone who can should vote in person on november 7

“The more people show up the harder it is for them (GOP) to fake it, to rig it, to change it, to flip it. And that’s what they do.

"And when it’s close (the election) it’s easy to do. When it’s not close--if it’s 80/20 or 70/30 or 65/35 it’s much harder to fix the election.

"People need to show up, they need to cooperate with exit pollsters who are asking you “what did you just do?” Tell them what you just did, tell them honestly--if you voted republican, shame on you but tell them (if you can bare it). And if you voted democrat say “I voted for the democrat straight down the line.”

"Whatever you do--just make sure (to tell them honestly), because the exit polls can’t…if there’s a big, big difference in the exit polling (which is so refillable because they’re asking you something you just did, not what you intend to do, not what you want to do, not what you‘re gonna do--it‘s what you just did).

"This is the method that is used to see if third world countries had free and fair elections. Exit polling. Because asking somebody what they just did is reliable, it has less than a half a percentage of a margin of error.

"It is reliable, it is good. We should do it. You should show up and if you don’t show up you can’t be exit polled. And it makes everybody else’s vote not as safe.

"Will they (GOP) try (to steal the election)? I’m sure they’ll try.”

--Randi’s rant October 26th, 2006

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[PicketFence]

223. Exactly right Orleans

Everyone needs to get out to vote first and foremost.

[Olney Blue]

225. We need an overwhelming tide of Dem voters.

Hi Picket- welcome to DU!

[mod mom]

2. We will NOT CONCEDE in Ohio, regardless what the Dem Party does.

[Stephanie]

5. Do you have an organization?

Are you ready to hit the streets? How will you alert people that the time is now?

[mod mom]

72. I work with both CASE Ohio and Free Press.

their websites are <caseohio.org> and <freepress.org>

We organized the hearings/rallies after the '04. Info will be posted on DU as well.

[mom cat]

141. I have the same question. After the 04 debachle, there was talk on DU about going

to Ohio! I was ready, but the plan fizzled. I am ready and willing to go fight, but I also see no such plans. I think that we need to isolate the races most likely to be stolen and be ready to mobilize to go to those states and protest like hell. We can't just let the ball drop when the MSM goon squad does.

[mongo]

214. I think it will be different this time

in '04, so many of us were devastated. We were in shock, disbelielf, depressed. We just were not ready or able to accept that outcome. Plus, after working so hard for Kerry, it was hard to not see him lead the charge against the stolen election.

I can't even describe to you how personally depressing and debilitating the '04 election was. I was depressed for months afterwards, and so were many people that I talked to. Good, active dem folks who were protesting Bush every time he came within 100 miles. But after the election, we were just too damn broken as a group to get it together.

We are expecting the election to be stolen this time. I hope like hell we can get a massive movement in the streets.

[adamuu]

226. remember why it fizzled...

remember why it fizzled... Kerry conceded. what would have been the point?

[librechik]

30. doesn't matter; Blackwell will certify and Hastert will swear in the Pukkke

while an army of lawyers argue over it.

unless God smiles on us for a change

[mod mom]

73. Let's hope the Dems have attorneys other than this guy:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

(read DLC-Dems that Love Corporations)

[bobbolink]

74. I applaud your gumption!

Would that there were more like you, all across this nation... maybe it wouldn't have to go down.

You have the best take on DLC I've seen! Love it!

[mom cat]

142. It does matter if we stand and fight.

[librechik]

208. of course--they won't sit and do nothing though.

I've watched their previous behavior, and judging from the Busby-Bilbray race in CA this year and even earlier, in 2004, the way the Pukkkes swore in Beauprez in CO even though the election was being challenged.

Just because they get away with their cheating doesn't mean we should stop fighting them. We should just fight louder. All our whining over the last 6 years has really changed and informed a lot of people over the evoting problem. But it's not over.

[Imagevision]

108. We will NOT CONCEDE in Ohio? - Bush would simply declare martial law if problems persist

Rove is on top of the control factor as he smiles gives you the finger!

[Rude Horner]

3. That's a good question

I read something last night on msnbc.com or cnn.com about Haliburton fudging their record keeping requirements for the Iraq reconstruction, and toward the end of the article it talked about how if the Dems take control of things in government, how there would be massive investigations into war crimes and war profiteering. The first thing that came into my head was that, these guys are so crooked and so scared of being caught that they'll do ANYTHING to save their asses, including rigging these upcoming elections. They don't give a rats ass about how fishy it's going to look to have all the pre-election polls pointing to a Democratic sweep, and then the election turning out the exact opposite. All they want to do is save their ass. If people question the election - "Oh well". "Those damn polls just don't work anymore". blah blah blah

I do think this - IF they steal this election and we, as a country, don't do anything about it, then .... well, I hate to be pessimistic, but if that happens, we're in SERIOUS shit in this country. I'm maintaining optimism though. I'm going to vote and I'm going to pray that we still have some form of legitimate elections still remaining in this country.

[Stephanie]

7. Nothing will happen without a plan.

The word needs to be out there, an action plan needs to be in place, and if the worst happens and they steal it again, we need to be out there IMMEDIATELY in MASSIVE numbers.

[Imagevision]

98. Bush wants us to know he'll use martial law if election outcome becomes a problem

Bushco is ready to use the old' "the polls got it all wrong crap again" and when one thinks about it, what will the Dems do?? ---> even if for example Santorum wins

[mom cat]

145. What plan would you suggest?

[0rganism]

224. How much of a plan can we have?

We don't know if they will steal the election, although indications are everywhere that they will try.

We don't know where they will steal specific races, or which races they will steal, although there are some obvious "hot spots" that raise suspicions.

We don't know how they will steal the election or whose votes will be stolen/suppressed/discounted, although we have some idea of techniques they've used in the past. We don't know who, specifically, will be doing the stealing, either.

These are the known unknowns. We have to plan around them. How much plan can we have, without knowledge of if, where, which, how, and who? Uncertainty plays to the advantage of the evildoers, but that is their legitimate advantage and we have to concede it when necessary.

[bullimiami]

15. we know they screw with registrations. we know they throw obstacles up

to reduce voting by minorities and democrats in general.
we know they have crooked voting officials ready to twist the rules.
we know they rig the vote counting since all the rest isnt enough.

now we know that halliburton has been building camps and bush has signed laws giving him permission to arrest and jail people without recourse and making it easier for him to declare martial law.

connect the dots.

rig the election once. get away with it - little grumbling.
rig the elections again and again, get away with it - more and more grumbling.
keep rigging the elections and finally it goes over critical mass and the people go out into the streets (ie mexico) but now bush has the permission to put the military in the streets and federalize the nat guard, he has camps to concentrate the troublemakers and declares them 'enemy combattants' just to make it legal to do with them as he pleases with no oversight, even torture or permanent imprisonment.

[Stephanie]

19. well that's it in a nutshell

which is why we must prepare. what is the plan???

[robinlynne]

87. just throwing out an idea, but I think we need dem politicians to stand up and scream.

and we need to ask them now. feingold, pelosi, kerry, boxer....

[mom cat]

147. If we wait for them to yell, it will be too late. We the people have to

take the lead! The establishmentarians will never bite the hand that feeds them!

[Generic Brad]

40. And should that plan fail, he just purchased land in Paraguay

Do we have an extradition treaty with Paraguay?

[mom cat]

146. So do we fight now or wait till tyey turn the screws even more?

[mother earth]

6. I'm ready...cuz you KNOW they are going to steal it again.

Why on earth would they stop now? They are not capable of honesty & we have so far to go to securing that our elections are fair and square...you could donate & participate & if the elected officials are not going to make it so, it is NEVER going to happen until ALL of us are marching in the streets & wearing orange & we put a stop to it.

The theft is bigger & more corrupt. Massive change has to take place & we haven't even touched upon it in time for Nov. 7th. Too many people still have their heads in the sand & they won't wake up until there's a tsunami of corruption. Of course there is, but our vote is still left vulnerable.

Call me cynical, but I will be surprised if we get a majority in anything. We will get token wins here and there. The corruption has to be dealt with before we can even hope for justice.

[Stephanie]

8. Why orange?

I missed something.

[mother earth]

13. I believe Orange is the color to wear when the vote is stolen.

Remember Ukraine's opposition presidential candidate Viktor Yushchenko?

[Poiuyt]

56. Ukraine's Orange Revolution

[mother earth]

64. Exactly!!!

[robinlynne]

88. only one problem with that. bush sent all that orange stuff over and we paid for it.

it was not created "by the people". but even so, everyone knows what it means.

[mom cat]

149. Bingo.

[petgoat]

189. At party stores you can buy orange plastic picnic-table covers

for Halloween very inexpensively. (You might ask if you can get a better
price AFTER Halloween.)

I think I saw a 54" roll of 50 yards for $10. Also try fabric stores
after Halloween--maybe that orange cloth with the little bats on it
will go cheap.

[moodforaday]

195. You mean you want a CIA-sponsored revolution

in response to a stolen election?

[bullimiami]

55. i agree. i will be more surprised if we are able to take the house or senate

than if we actually lose seats and they consolidate their power even more.

[motocicleta]

86. sad to admit I agree 100%

They know how to steal, and have no reason to think anyone will actually do anything about yet still more blatant theft.

[mnhtnbb]

57. self-delete Posted wrong place..

[mdmc]

9. plan is to just take it

We's Dems.

[uberblonde]

10. You go to your election board office...

And you bring whatever you need to camp out until every vote is counted. Democracy is worth at least as much trouble as camping out for concert tickets.

[Stephanie]

12. You will have no way of knowing if the votes were counted.

That's the problem.

[seriousstan]

76. The only way to know is for Stephanie to count every vote.

That is the only way to really know, isn't it. Otherwise you can always say "they" cheated. Even if it is a Dem, they could be bought. Or they could be a DINO.

I guess you will just have to count all the votes yourself to be absolutely sure.


But.........how do I know about YOU??????

[Stephanie]

77. "Everyone here is a little queer, except for thee and me"

"And even thee is a little queer."

My grandmother used to say that all the time.

[robinlynne]

89. this is a serious question and that is not a serious answer. just distracting.

[Imagevision]

101. America, not being able to get a ligit election ~ what's next? eliminating the middle class...

[druidity33]

133. i had thought...

For 2008 to set up a video camera near my polling place, and hold up a sign that said "Comments?". Ask people as they come out if they want to say anything about their voting experience.

At the same time maybe have post-it paper pads of blue and red and have people tear off the candidate they chose and put it in a box... to be tallied at end of polling... (or we should all come up with a cheap and easily reproducible independent tallying system)...

If they 'take' it... there's really only a few things we can do:

-Lawyer up... wait it out, hope the courts can be fair.

-March on Washington en masse... from every state in the Nation. SHUT EVERYTHING DOWN. Occupy the city ala Obrador, and force the government to RUN THE ELECTIONS AGAIN. A COMPLETE DO-OVER, accepting nothing less than Hand-counted Paper ballots from every precinct, with chain of custody verification every step of the way.

-another idea from Mexico would be to OCCUPY the Television and Radio stations in this country... either shut them down or co-opt them. Of course, they've started to gun down the Protesters/Strikers in Oaxaca using buses of plainclothes military... so people have to accept they'll be taking risks.

As a nation, are we ready for measures like this?
Especially now that we can be deemed 'enemy combatants', Martial Law can be enstated and there are new detention centers popping up every day?
Scary shit if you ask me...

What are you proposing Steph?

[mom cat]

151. The question is what we do now if they steal it. If we do nothing,

there will not be a 2008.

[druidity33]

222. i should have been clearer...

I had been thinking about doing these things for 2008, but talking about doing them next week. I'm not sure how effective it will be to take independent polls if not everyone is doing it though. In other words it's too late to implement any of these preemptive options. What we have left is the final 3 scenarios i mentioned. Where do you stand on Marching to Washington? Are you prepared to sacrifice?

Do you have an answer to Steph's question?

[Doctor_J]

28. How will you know if the votes were counted?

Or if 100000 voters in Dem precincts were purged before they even had a chance to vote? And if you're election board is run by the GOP, as is likely, what makes you think they'll do anything about it?

[crappyjazz]

11. Martial law

The administration is poised to counter any action after they steal the election again.

[Stephanie]

16. Right. So what are we going to do about it?

That's why we need massive numbers if we're going to hit the streets.

[file83]

21. Who knows? If there is a plan - it won't be telegraphed until the eve of

action, most likely. The less "warning" we give the government, I'd guess the better. The question is, will Bush "pre-emptively" order a military presence in the streets BEFORE we march/protest, or will he only do it AFTER?

Does it matter? We march no matter what.

[Stephanie]

23. March where? March when? Who's in charge?

Don't look to your Dem leaders to do anything about it. Do you think Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer are going to stand on the back of a truck and call for a general strike? They are complicit.

So who's organizing the resistance?

[file83]

29. You are in charge. There is no central authority. It's a distributed network

of 100 million individual nodes. A self organizing coopertive swarm of pissed off, yet focused, Americans that share one common goal: REMOVE THOSE FROM POWER WHOM ARE A THREAT TO OUR NATIONAL SECURITY.

The swarm creates the list, and will never stop until the goal is achieved. Then those people will be replaced democratically and our country will begin to rebuild.

Any other questions?

[mother earth]

17. So who is going to do the shooting? Everyone is in Iraq, just

about.

[file83]

18. That's Bush's "counter plan" to mass unrest - his "End Game"?

me thinks so.

[Imagevision]

100. We should kick this thread up thru election day!!

[iamahaingttta]

20. The plan is to...

...fuck them up by any means necessary.

I personally will take to the streets of new york any time and any place there is a protest.
I will never again purchase anything by any big corporation that has a hand in this and I WILL DO IT LOUDLY!
I personally will make it clear to any sponsor on any show on FOX and any other media outlet that has a hand in the theft that I will NEVER EVER PURCHASE ANY OF THEIR PRODUCTS EVER AGAIN and will in fact work towards making sure that NOBODY ELSE DOES EITHER.
I will begin writing letters to the editors and inundating the fascists with e-mails.
I will cut up all my dreadit cards and NEVER BORROW THEIR FUCKING MONEY AGAIN!
I will personally become a revolutionary and dedicate every fiber of my being to MAKING CERTAIN THAT EVERYONE RESPONSIBLE GOES TO JAIL for their crimes. Yes, I'm talking to you KKKarl and you too Chimp-Boy.
I will use every legal and ethical means possible to fuck the fascists up and take our country back. Lawsuits? Liens? Youtube? eBay? DU? Street art and theater? What else?

I just don't give a fuck anymore. Waterboards be damned! If they steal another one, I will become and enemy of the state,
If EVERYONE who is concerned about the state of the nation and the world does things along these lines, there will be NO WAY FOR THEM TO SURVIVE.
We have the power, we just have to get off our asses, stop being afraid, and exercise that power.

Every single day...

[file83]

22. If they steal the election, then THEY are the "enemy of the state" - not you!

Remember that if the shit goes down - YOU are in the right - YOU stand on the moral ground. But your angle is correct - keep it legal, nonviolent and get them where it hurts: the pocketbook.

[Doctor_J]

25. There won't be any protest

"I personally will take to the streets of new york any time and any place there is a protest."

What do you mean by this?

Sounds like a rant.

[iamahaingttta]

75. I live in New York City...

Anytime I hear of a protest in town, I will join it, no matter how small.
I will take a half day off of work and stand outside the Javits Federal Building and give everyone who comes out the finger.
I will go around town with a bag full of bumper stickers that read:

"Dunkin Donuts is now owned by the Carlyle Group
The company that brought you GWB, 9/11 and the Iraq War.
Enjoy your coffee!"

and I will stick them all over the windows of Dunkin Donuts around town.
I will go outside the News Corp. headquarters on Sixth Ave and sing Woody Guthrie songs.
I will do whatever I feel is right to make the fascist enablers in this town VERY UNCOMFORTABLE and hopefully make them understand that their days are numbered.

Yes, it's a rant, but it's a rant I can do.
So can you...

[mcg]

94. shut the country down.

First we get out the vote and we vote.
If they are going to steal it, we want it clear they did.

Do what Ghandi did, it worked for India ...

Nonviolent resistance

Nonviolent civil disobedience

Massive demonstrations

Massive boycotts

General strike

Make it clear to the powers that be that there's no profit in oppressing us,
we won't stand for it!

[liberaldemocrat7]

234. I have the list of companies to boycott in my signature.

.

[mcg]

235. CVS

"BOYCOTT Republican contributors Dell Computers, Walmart, Wendy's, Outback Steak House, Dominos Pizza, Red Lobster, Olive Garden, Eckerd, CVS and Walgreens, Curves for women health clubs, General Electric and Exxon/Mobil. Send them EMAIL."

I didn't know about CVS. I'll have to start looking for an alternative.
GE is another tough one, but ...
Occasionally I've gotten gas at Exxon/Mobil, got to break that habit.

[Doctor_J]

24. See who's winning American Idol

and what's on sale at WalMart. The American electorate is unfortunately nearly comatose, and couldn't care less if their votes are counted.

[Stephanie]

26. There are MILLIONS of us who care.

MILLIONS marched before the war, millions more have learned the truth since then. Our numbers are massive. We are the majority. It's our responsibility to act.

[Doctor_J]

27. Yes, and look at what we've accomplished

Nothing

[BeFree]

48. Take your blinders off

We have accomplished a great deal. We are as united as I've ever seen the democratic party.

Your attitude would get a tombstone from me. It is not based on knowledge, it's just plain defeatist.

[mother earth]

68. We have accomplished a lot, but it still hasn't touched the

problem. We need EVERYONE to embrace & work toward election reform. This should've been a priority right along, and esp. by the Dems. who do hold office. The voices and people fighting for reform are still few and far between. It isn't enough or we wouldn't be facing another voting rip off. Not defeatist, just factual. We need absolutely everybody united on this front, us and our elected officials. John Kerry/John Edwards/Al Gore/The Clintons ALL should be leading the brigade. John Conyers & RFK Jr. have been incredible! We need EVERYONE!

[BeFree]

70. You got that right

We need unity. And we have a great deal more than I've ever seen.

You may not know this but some of us have been working the election reform department for years now, and I am sure they would all agree with me that we have come a long way in the last two years. The movement has grwon by leaps and bounds and we see the issue hitting the airwaves - finally.

What we ask now is that those who are just now becoming aware find themselves able to trust our determinations of what will happen on Nov. 7.

We know what to look for in the funny numbers and when we find it we ask that everyone become united in broadcasting the evidence.

[mom cat]

153. Now that sounds like the start of a plan. Now we need the committment to action

"just in case" the funny numbers show up. Man, I just got out of surgery for a hip replacement, and I am willing to march, camp out, or whatever it takes!

[Sugar Smack]

158. mom cat? You're the freaking BEST!!!!!!

[robinlynne]

91. not really. more people registered to vote in this eleciton than in the 2004 election!

[Sugar Smack]

31. I'M FUCKING GOING STRAIGHT TO WASHINGTON FUCKING DC.

That's just a goddamned fucking fact.

[Stephanie]

33. I think that's the plan.

That has to be it. We just go to DC. Everybody.

[Sugar Smack]

36. Every last one of us. Carpools, buses, I'm there.

Me, one fucking lunch box, and my voice. And whoever else wants to join me.

[Stephanie]

38. did you ever see this film "Bringing Down a Dictator"

it was on PBS a few years ago.

http://www.aforcemorepowerful.org/films/bdd/story/index...

[Sugar Smack]

43. Thank you for the link, Stephanie.

I never saw that movie. This is the most sobering thing I have ever faced, I think all of us, and we cannot let this happen. This would be five times September 24th. We have to stop this.

Thank you for being here. I think you are wonderful. I'm going to check out your link.

[Imagevision]

111. If Bush steals this election, I believe it would comparable to 9-11 because

the slaughter continues, and the numbers are greater then 3000 - (21,000 US. troops maimed and wounded)

[Sugar Smack]

124. It's horrifying, and it can't happen.

This country as has all we can take.

[mom cat]

154. Do we go to DC or to the states with the fuzzy numbers? What is the most strategic?

[Sugar Smack]

157. That's a good question. Personally, I feel like

DC lends itself to national visibility more than any other place. I'm expecting that the protests will abound everywhere along the United States. Myself, I live in Chapel Hill, NC. It's a "blue" town in a "red" state. I do love it here. But I'm willing to group up in DC also for the sake of a massive turnout. And like I've said before, pick up anyone along the way who'll fit in my little car.

[mom cat]

181. I will have to find another ride ... I am in Boston where I do not expect a Republican landslide.

If there is one, I'll be hehe screaming my head off. Otherwise, I will find my way to Ohio or DC.

[Sugar Smack]

186. That's the spirit!!

I have three people who want to ride so far. We may have to rent a van!

[mom cat]

244. Or a train!

[adamuu]

227. serious question about spontaneous marching in washington dc

it is my understanding that marches must be registered with the DC police, and that the DC government be compensated for the extra time and lost commerce. What happens if there are spontaneous, mass, street-level protests that block traffic for a day (or several)? Is there a fine involved? Do they just arrest everybody? Does the military come in or something?
Do organizations like Gold Star Mothers for Peace, who have called for storming DC, get sued for those marching fees?
Anyone know how that works?

[Stephanie]

237. this is what I'm wondering

What if a million tourists arrive on the Mall on Saturday November 11?

[Sugar Smack]

242. A million tourists sounds GREAT.

I think you're very wise to keep your sense of humor & your perspicacity. Keeps people like me sane.

[Catchawave]

37. Sign me up !

[Sugar Smack]

44. YES.

I'll be there. I'll be so glad to see you. This is the very last fucking straw.

Thanks for this.

[Sugar Smack]

46. Plus, you're in VA so I could pick you up.

On the way.

[Catchawave]

69. See my post #52 !

No matter what we wake up too on Nov 8, we still need to address the fact that President Chucklenutz is still President with his illegal war

[april]

221. count me in!

[Imagevision]

228. K&R!!!

[mnhtnbb]

59. And Bush will declare martial law. You'll go straight to jail and never

be heard from again.

[Sugar Smack]

67. Fucking fine. I'm done with this shit. Done.

And I'm not alone, either.

[struggle4progress]

115. They can't put everybody in jail. Did you ever hear of the Wobblies'

free speech fights? Towns would have anti-free-speech ordinances. The Wobblies would take on the town. One organizer after another would stand up and give a prohibited pro-union speech. One organizer after another would get arrested. A call would go out. Around the country, Wobblies would jump trains. The town jail would get packed, as Wobblies poured in. The towns caved on the issue.

Don't underestimate ordinary people. Many are uninformed, but most are decent and most are not stupid. Most people don't want the innocent jailed without cause or disappeared into night and fog. If we treat daily life as political work, we'll win.

[mnhtnbb]

144. Uh, the Nazis disappeared damn near everybody.

[Sugar Smack]

155. Well, it's your choice, of course.

You can stay at home, or you can go out and protest.

[struggle4progress]

173. Surely you can come up with something better than "Resistance is futile"

[mnhtnbb]

184. I'm not suggesting resistance is futile--just that it may have serious consequences

[mom cat]

162. I am with you there. If we believe that the current evil cannot be defeated, then it cannot!

We have to fight.

[robinlynne]

192. MOm cat. I like the way you think! Count me in.

[mom cat]

156. We either take the risk now or wait till they up the ante. All of us know

people who would notice our absence if we were dissapeared. We cannot let that threat deter us from standing up for the truth, or we do not deserve a democracy. No one said it would be easy, but it will only get harder if we do not stand up now!

[dweller]

116. ...

how do you feel about hitchhikers?
dp


edit: asked and answered.

[Sugar Smack]

119. We have you, you're coming.

If you can't take another minute of this shit, we have you.

And we'll make sure you're safe.

[kowanda32]

130. COUNT ME IN!

I am ready willing and able.

[Sugar Smack]

131. WELCOME to DU, and welcome to Washington DC!

Thank you for being here.

[yellowdogmi]

236. Pick me up on the way?

Is Chicago out of your way?

[Sugar Smack]

243. I'm in NC, but I would LOVE to meet you there!!!!!

[mom cat]

152. I fully agree.We may have to be the ones to make the plan.

[Beelzebud]

32. Take to the streets. Civil Disobediance.

The left used to know how to organize these sorts of things.

[Stephanie]

34. Well that's the problem. The internet creates paper tiger organizations.

Folks can send out five million emails to their lists, but to get people to actually step outside and show up in person is another story.

[Beelzebud]

35. I would have to agree. It's easier to sign an e-petition than organize.

Pathetic but true.

[Generator]

39. This is the exact question I wanted to ask

My cynical answers are, "On to 2008!" "If we just stop talking about gay marriage and abortion we really really can win NEXT time."

But really what will we do? Argue about it endlessly and all the cowards, which is most of humanity (and yes, I) -it's nothing against Democrats will do nothing. That's how fascism happens. Because it's a lot of work to challenge these people. Look at Mexico. They still lost and they had so much less (and thus more) to lose than us. We have jobs and families and we actually know how easy it would be to be called an enemy combatant. Without a leader, I don't think we can be effective. That said, I want the leaders on this site, ahhhmm like Pitt to organize something-if they say "On to 2008!" then well what is the point?

How much of suckers can we be? If there are masses in the street I will be there. But I won't waste my time with a hundred people out there while the LEADERS of the party including people like Pitt whom hold tremendous sway over the thoughts of people here and elsewhere say "on to the next election." And at some point PEOPLE we have to wake up, if those we are trying so dearly to get elected don't even do anything to insure that the votes we work so hard are cast for them why the hell do we want them? They don't even care enough themselves. The whole thing is a mockery.

[mom cat]

164. If you wait to find out if it is a big turnout, if everybody waits, it will be too late!

[rman]

41. Perhaps the populace will become "aroused",

as Noam Chomsky puts it.

And perhaps that's exactly what the neocon gang has been waiting for.
Once plausibly provoked, they can lash out hard.
All the laws are in place and already being a dissenter is close to being a terrorist.

[Octafish]

42. I'm with you, Stephanie.

My kids may grow up orphans, but I won't let this nation become NAZI.

[mmonk]

45. Probably

bitch and moan and be dismissed. However, we should still fight for a proper voting process.

[uppityperson]

47. popular uprisings happen.

Why does it have to be planned and organized? If enough people are pissed off enough, they will show their faces, they will show up in numbers too big to be ignored or even 1 by 1 by 1. Yes, planning is good, but there need to be unplanned spontaneous demonstrations also all over. Just because something is not planned does NOT mean you can not demonstrate! Plan if you want as you want but show up somewhere even if not planned!

[Sugar Smack]

49. Good GOD, that is so true.

Frankly, I'm hauling ass to DC if it happens. And I'll pick up ANYONE who wants to join me. I don't care if I'm standing outside alone (which I WON'T be!)and shouting. Don't care.

[mom cat]

165. You won't be alone!

[Jack Rabbit]

50. Here's what . . .

Steal this, Frat Boy.



Kiev, 2005
Photo: Ukrainian Embassy, Belgium

[meldroc]

51. I'm in!!! We need civil disobedience on a massive scale.

I'm willing to go to jail for my beliefs.

Are you?

I've planned to take a sick day on November 8th, so I can protest. I'm not sure what kind of protest I want to do, but I want to do more than standing on a street corner, waving signs at cars. Something outrageous enough to get noticed (but non-violent, of course.)

One of the things that scares me is that I've never done anything like that before, so it'll be hard to summon the courage to do it, especially if I'm doing it by myself.

[Sugar Smack]

53. You won't be doing it by yourself.

That is a promise.

[LibraLiz1973]

63. Thats right, cause I'll be there.

No questions asked, I will go to DC.

[meldroc]

79. I'd love to go to DC, but I'm in Colorado.

I don't have the funds to make a trip all the way across the country. So I'm pretty much going to be doing my thing either here in Fort Collins, or in the Denver Area.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

114. I lived in Ft. Collins for several years, loved it

You will find many compatriots there.

I'm on the Left Coast now, and no funds to go to DC. You tend the fire in CO, and I'll tend the fire in OR.

[mom cat]

167. Great!

[Sugar Smack]

122. You're in Pennsylvania. Steph's in NY. I'm in NC.

We'll meet up at the gates. I don't really care who says it won't "work". It's just not an issue with me any more.

Thank you.

[mom cat]

166. You won't be alone. Take some non violent resistance traing to be prepared!

[meldroc]

240. Where do I get such training?

I know some of the basic principles, but yeah I should go thorough proper training.

At least, getting such training will look good when I go before the judge.

[Catchawave]

52. March 17, 2007 - mark your calendar!

4th Anniversary of War in Iraq: A Call to Action from UFPJ

MARCH 17-19, 2007: 3 DAYS OF ACTION TO END THE WAR


SAT. MARCH 17 -- MARCH ON WASHINGTON


March 19, 2007, will mark the 4th anniversary of the U.S. war and occupation in Iraq. The whole world knows this war was based on lies -- a war that never should have happened. And while we've seen tremendous growth of antiwar sentiment throughout this country, we have yet to develop a force that is strong enough to force the government to end the war and bring the troops home. Now, more than ever, we must re-double our efforts and re-energize our work.

United for Peace and Justice believes the movement to end the war in Iraq will only grow in the coming months, and by next spring there could be a groundswell of opposition as more people are ready to make their voices heard. We are calling on peace and justice groups and organizers around the country to start planning now for the most massive antiwar demonstration our nation has seen.

On Saturday, March 17th, we will bring people from every state to Washington, DC, to demand an end to the war! We will call on people to stay through the weekend, and on Monday, March 19th -- the 4th anniversary of this obscene war -- we will organize a massive day of action focused on both the policy makers and the war machine.

As the plans for these three days of action in Washington, DC, develop, we will be sending out updates and more details. But we urge you to mark your calendars now: Begin discussing how your group can help this important mobilization next spring. We also know that in the past many groups have organized local protests and events on the anniversary of the war. This local work remains as critical as ever, and so we encourage you to plan local actions in the weeks leading up to the anniversary and our mobilization in Washington. And, of course, if you can't make the trip to Washington we hope you will organize local protests the same weekend.

http://www.unitedforpeace.org/article.php?id=3399

[mother earth]

66. Thanks for posting this!

Count me in.

[Virginian]

118. It has to focus on only one issue.

I went to a protest a while back and the podium had speakers on all kinds of topics. Very little was dedicated to the major issue that attracted me and most of the others. You can't dilute the message. If there is an election protest, it has to be only an election protest.

Does anyone know how the Pubs organized so quickly for protesting in Florida just after the 2000 presidential election?

[mom cat]

168. Money to hire trained stooges and hacks. We have to do it the old

fashioned way.

[LeftCoast]

54. So you're saying we should all be very very CONCERNED, eh?

There's ever so much to be concerned about these days...

[mnhtnbb]

58. My passport is renewed (no chip) and we'll be outta' here in 2008...

if not before. I would like to let my son graduate high school 2008, but if our lives are at stake, we'll take him with us to our Panama house which is supposed to be finished Jan. 2007.

[helderheid]

60. Error: You've already recommended that thread.

[Lars39]

61. Large demonstrations have been hidden before.

Media needs to be a priority.

[mother earth]

65. They can't hide half the nation!

[readmoreoften]

78. It won't be half the nation.

Only half the nation even votes.
Half of those are Republicans.
Half of the remaining democrats will not do ANYTHING but vote.
And we only have one week to organize the remaining 12.5% of the population.

[Imagevision]

104. Most of the msm is GOP affiliated - they would make a mockery of election fraud issues

as they did in 2004, not trying to sound negative only to be aware of the fact.

[Lars39]

238. Newsroom sit-ins are what I had in mind.

Disruption of service to the sheeple would get things hopping in a hurry.

[dave502d]

71. Pack our bags for the camps. n/t

[coco77]

80. Its time to start protesting the media...

[HardRocker05]

82. yep; in 2004 there was no coverage of the ohio recount until it was over

then they told us bush had won fair and square; nothing to see here folks, move on.

[mom cat]

169. Boycotting them and all their sponsors. I have given up supporting all

corporate giants. I will not feed the overlords.

[Neecy]

81. here's an option

It looks like at least some organization has already started - I got this email yesterday.
----

Every poll points to a Democratic victory on November 7. Yet George Bush, Dick Cheney, and Karl Rove all insist Republicans will win.

Are they planning to steal another election?

Let's start a Blue Revolution across the USA on Election Night to stop Republicans from stealing Election 2006.

When the polls close, we propose that Democrats across the country gather outside their County Election Office for a candlelight vigil to Count Every Vote, all wearing the same color: Blue.

Imagine a Blue Revolution, every bit as joyous and historic as the Orange Revolution in Ukraine, the Cedar Revolution Lebanon, the Velvet Revolution in Czechoslovakia, and the other democratic revolutions of recent years - right here in the United States of America.

Help us organize a vigil in your county - just login to Democrats.com and click "Local." If you don't see an Election Night Vigil in your county, create a new Forum Topic coded "Blue Revolution," select "County," post the location of your County Election Office, and spread the word to your friends.

More here:
http://www.BlueRevolution.us

[althecat]

112. This looks good...

[mom cat]

170. Don't just light a candle, watch the vote count.

[LWolf]

83. Express shock and outrage.

Watch in dismay as our candidates concede too early and too easily. Rally around the beltway democrats who decide, too late, that paper ballots are essential and it's time to move that to the top of the list. Get angrier. Spend more time posting about how we ought to take something to the streets. As the shock wears off, start looking forward to the next election, reassured by those in power that the democrats have a plan.

[tandem5]

84. yeah its going to take a few more cycles of that...

but we do get a little bit more awareness each time... at some point (I hope) democrats will realize that ignoring fraud is a tad impractical to maintaining their careers.

[and-justice-for-all]

90. Viva La Revolutiean!!

[robinlynne]

92. This is THE most important post today. I think you should repeat it tomorrow

and every day till we figure it out. Thank-you Stephanie.

[LSK]

93. GOTV GOTV GOTV GOTV GOVT

Overwhelm them with voters so they cant steal it.

[SPKrazy]

95. This Is The Elephant In The Living Room Question!

isn't it Stephanie

it is the question that we all wonder about, I mean the polls are ahead for the Dems, but * and Rove are mysteriously calm.

If they steal it again, do we have the guts to do something about it?

Will we all complain and research and find a ton of evidence and turn it over to the only congress people that seem to care who will have a hearing in the basement unrecognized by the majority of Repukes?

Will * declare Martial law to quell a revolt if there were one?

Will we all bow down and say, "there's nothing we can do?"

Or will we fight like our lives and our families lives REALLY depended on it!

It all brings a feeling of a little anxiety to my stomach to think that they just might steal it again. But then, anxiety is necessary to motivate people!

thanks for this thread

Steve

[mom cat]

171. You are right. This is THE question. If we, some of the most informed and

dedicated people in America cannot come up with a plan, then throw democracy away and kiss the hand that whips you.

[petgoat]

199. Will * declare Martial law to quell a revolt?

If it were an actual insurrection, like taking over gov't
offices and Nat'l Guard armories, he'd have little choice.
Perhaps he'd even be motivated to fake an insurrection to
justify Martial Law.

But millions of people in the street exercising their free
speech rights would not be an insurrection, it would have
much the same effect as an insurrection, and he couldn't
touch them.

Even if one gathering is declared illegal, people can simply
move to another gathering.

Also, a few demonstrators along commuter rush hour routes
can catch a lot of eyeballs. It would of course be just
terrible if a minority of anti-social and diabolical
misfits used their imagination and ingenuity to create
eye-catching guerilla theater productions at crosswalks and
along expressway bikeways that would cause rubber-neckers to
slow down commuter traffic and would be entirely legal. Drivers
would be justified in exercising extreme care around such
distractions to ensure that they don't get in a fender-bender.
Slowing down morning commute traffic would have serious economic
effects and weaken our great country in time of war.

It would also tend to generate office discussion--I was twenty
minutes late, how late were you? How easy is it going to be to
get to work in the morning? How many days is this going to go
on? When are the cops going to do something? Where do you
draw the line between free speech and traffic safety/efficiency?
How much is this costing the economy?




Slowing of evening commute traffic would of course be less
disruptive to the economy and would only piss people off who
just want to get home.

[dysfunctional press]

99. not to many people joined those of us who descended on D.C.-

to protest the supreme court coup, and first coronation of king george- after all- it's not like this is Ukraine or anything.

[Imagevision]

102. If elections are government controlled? - so is part of americana...

yet whacko Bush was the first to voice disagreements when the Ukraine had election fraud problems that ended up over-turning the outcome when they had a recount.

[barb162]

103. I think there is little chance of them stealing this one

Too many people will vote Democratic this time

[Imagevision]

105. Rove's only chance to not lose the house is election fraud manipulation, they did

it in 2004 and should now be more proficient at attaining whatever results they desire, -- don't forget the dude from Princeton who said the election could be hacked in less the an hour!!!!

[barb162]

110. Why are Republicans openly admitting they are scared shitless

if they can just steal all the votes? Why are they bothering to campaign if they just intend to steal all the votes. BTW, I think things are tightening up. There will be a lot of really close races

[mom cat]

172. Rove says he is not worried.

[lostnfound]

125. There's enough races within 8 points or so..and enough with no polls..

for them to keep the House and the Senate.

Not to mention a handful of real DINO's in their back pockets, too, as the insurance plan that they won't need.

I hope like hell you are right

but I'm not optimistic.

[Mr_Spock]

106. Probably the worst civil unrest we have seen since the 60's

At least that would be my guess at this time...

[Imagevision]

109. worst civil unrest? - Your discounting the martial law factor Bush signed into

play so Rove can merely call in the troops to quell any disturbances caused by those who believe election fraud may have tipped the vote keeping the repugs in power.

Unlike the 60's much of those freedoms have disappeared, evaporated, I believe didctatorship is seriously coming into play with the current leadership.

Bushco is aware of how crucial it is NOT to lose control of POWER, without it...he is nothing as is Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice and the whole cabal!

[Mr_Spock]

113. Saying he has the power and excercising it are two different things

I DARE Bush to declare martial law. You want to talk about destruction of a nation...

[NuttyFluffers]

121. can't jail 'em all... MLK and Gandhi proved that.

can't kill 'em all either, as the survivors of oppression and genocides can testify.

in the end good wins. it just needs to remember to get angry enough to get off its ass and *DO SOMETHING*!

[mnhtnbb]

148. Uh, see post #144. Bush is building detention centers. He has eliminated

habeas corpus and seized the right to impose martial law. He ain't puttin' up with no protests from 'libruls' who hate 'Ammurika'.

The people who take to the streets need to be prepared to be disappeared.

[Mr_Spock]

159. lol - look, I detained 20 million people!

Please, get real.

[mnhtnbb]

190. Get real, yourself. There won't be a million, let alone 20 million, in the streets

And they won't all be in the same place at the same time.

[stepnw1f]

200. then stay home.... and remain scared? (nt)

[mnhtnbb]

204. Go prepared to disappear. I prefer to disappear myself

out of the country to the destination-- and at the time of-- my choosing.

[stepnw1f]

207. Really? I'm Preparing to Get Disappeared?

Are you trying to scare me? We all know what the risks are....

[Sugar Smack]

163. "Disappeared"? No. Shot with the plasma weapon? Maybe.

The government, OUR government, has been developing a weapon that will cause the ultimate pain without actually killing people. This is something that I can anticipate upon civil rebellion. I can see the military being ordered to use this weapon upon its own people under the Insurrection Act signed not 2 days ago.

But I think being disappeared is not something to worry about. Only excrutiating pain.

[mom cat]

180. Then we must be prepared and take action. I will notify enough people about my intentions.

These are not wimps and would not take kindly to even a brief absence by me. I am sure that you know someone who would miss you, or perhaps we could have a list of people who would like to be checked on if they do not show up after a rally.

[Sugar Smack]

182. HEY!!! You're in Chapel Hill too! You can come with me!!

C'mon!!!

[mnhtnbb]

187. I was ready to hit the streets Nov 2000--but no one did anything. Things have

changed now. People need to be prepared for a helluva lot more than a night in jail. I think it's naive to think Bush isn't salivating over the chance to detain thousands of protesters as 'unlawful enemy combatants'
because they dare to question the legitimacy of elections. I wouldn't put anything past him. He is pure evil.

I'm simply advocating for people to realize they might not come home from a protest march for a very, very, long time.

[Sugar Smack]

196. I understand. But there were SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND

of us protesting on September 24th outside the WH. I'm not by any means a martyr or masochist. But I believe that people in numbers means something. The Bush administration is taking a nose-dive as we speak. Call me naive if you will, but I think that even if the MSM ignores us here in the US, the rest of the world WILL be watching.

[mnhtnbb]

205. I was there, outside the WH, on Sept 24 2005. BUT, now habeas corpus

is questionable. And Bush has the right to declare martial law. He had neither on 9/24/05.

The protests haven't gotten us out of Iraq; Bush has accelerated his legal arsenal and ability to deal harshly with those who don't agree with him.

[Sugar Smack]

218. The rest of the world will see,

even if the MSM here doesn't publish it.

[NuttyFluffers]

229. so what? would obedience be better? silence=death, mmkay?

all that evil needs to win is for good to do nothing.

is it going to be hard? yes.
is it going to be cruel? yes.
is it going to take time? yes.

and... so what? do something anyway.

all that stuff of habeas corpus and right to impose martial law means that we as a people already waited too long. we let the roots of evil set too deep -- because too much of good did nothing. so what? should've planted a tree twenty years ago to reap the fruit today. oh well. so what? plant the tree today!

if you let the terrorists frighten you into doing nothing you let the terrorists win -- and in this case the "terrorists" are our own government. time to remember FDR, only thing to fear is fear itself.

[mom cat]

174. Then we will have to call their bluff and take chances. No one said that

democracy would be easy. It will be a dictatorship if we do not challenge it.
I remember the sixties well, and we were fighting established discrimination laws that were unjust. Unjust laws that are not challenged just become more powerful. Just because ** sneaked martial law prvisions throug the sorry excuse for a Congress does not mean he can sneak them past America.

[Vinca]

129. A "Million Pissed Off Americans" March. nt

[j_gregory1948]

107. they HAVE stolen 06 already

months ago. It's not lost yet, but it has already been stolen.

It will be lost if Dems surrender cowardly like Kerry did. At least Gore in 2000 fought like a man.

Now, if all Dems who are robbed behave shamelessly like Kerry, the ONLY PLAN for this nation is a revolution. Not a violent one, no bloodshed.

But we need a general strike AND to stop spending money on superfluous items until these criminals are driven out of office.

[Cetacea]

120. People, whatcha gonna do?

Why don't you do something about it at the voting booth. Bring a camera .
The vote flipping reports have already been reported in Miami. You can shut down the system if you catch it. And you should be able to capture it when it happens 3 or more times, as was the case for the voters in the Herald report.
See this thread and please bump it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Sugar Smack]

134. Cameras at the voting booths.

YES.

[upi402]

123. will the media rally the bush maniacs to do violence?

[Sugar Smack]

126. Fucking take it to DC!!!!!

I am in! Not another minute of this shit. Not another minute.

[Altean Wanderer]

198. Second that. n/t

[Sugar Smack]

203. Welcome to DU!!

Good to see you.

[jarnocan]

232. http://velvetrevolution.us more info and 1-866-our-vote

to report problems

[TheUnspeakable]

128. Stephanie-Thanks for posting this

I've been thinking the same thing for the last few days. I've become convinced that they are going to steal this election-it's so obvious. So many more (80%?) people will be voting on their filthy machines. And if there's any talk about fraud, they already have a plan in place to start accusing the Dems of rigging the machines-which of course, as usual, results in mass confusion.
SO WE ALL GO TO DC!!!! I'm prepared to do it.

[elehhhhna]

132. "We will concede nothing. Nothing!" direct quote from a Dem candidate who's

"in the loop".

Get ready for massive legal challenges. The paperwork's already prepared.

[Stephanie]

135. that's good news, thanks!

but lawyers aren't enough, we need action

[elehhhhna]

136. Go vote, & GOTV by talking to EVERYONE. The more Dem voters, the harder

it is to hack. The more dem voter affidavits, the easier it is to CHALLANGE.

DO IT!

[GeorgeGist]

137. Military Coup?

[lostnotforgotten]

138. We Can't Print THE PLAN because Agent Mike Is Reading

Only the encrypted channels should be used for THE PLAN.

[Sugar Smack]

139. Hey, Agent Mike!

Love my freedom of speech! Kiss my fanny!

[lostnotforgotten]

140. An Element Of Surprise Does Have It's Place

Having Agent Mike kiss our collective asses is one of the footnotes though.

[Sugar Smack]

150. Heehee!

No regrets.

[petgoat]

201. Lots of cops and military and federal agents love liberty too

Which is why talk of insurrection is irresponsible.

We can legally have a great effect if we use our
ingenuity and creativity--and they can't stop us
without revealing themselves as fascists.

Few cops want to be Nazis. That's not what they
signed up for.

[lonestarnot]

143. When you figure it out, call me I'll be there.

[JRob]

160. "STRIKE, SLOW DOWN, BOYCOTT!!! " from 5-11-2005

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Hit 'em where they care. Nation-wide and everyone can do it where they live. STOP FEEDING THE BEAST!!!

I am more than willing to work with whomever on whatever details on any level...

[LynneSin]

175. Sweetie - I'm so there

I would think a protest for when the new congress starts in 2007 would be the first line of business. I don't care how cold it is, I'll be there! Hell I've done anti-war protests in January in DC TWICE (2003 and the Inauguration), I'll do it again

[Sugar Smack]

177. YESSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!

I KNEW it!!!!! LynneSin!!!

[LynneSin]

213. Hey - you're my roomie, right :D

[Sugar Smack]

217. How about a "FUCK YEAH".

I'll be there with freaking bells on. We can be roomies. I'd love that.

I think I need a nap. I was up all night emailing all the cable channels plus radio & newspapers. Man, this is a good time to rest up, I think.

Oh, by the way----->

[brentspeak]

176. Why don't people just concentrate on getting out the Dem vote instead?

Worry about hypotheticals only if they occur.

[Sugar Smack]

178. Because this is America, and we're allowed to "multi-task".

[petgoat]

202. "Worry about hypotheticals only if they occur."

Right. We'll cross that bridge after it falls down.

[greeneyedboy]

179. first we have to WIN. and if the margins are large enough, it's not stealable.

and if you want to know what to do if anything really odd happens in close races, go to www.electiondefensealliance.org/national_guidebook , www.ep365.org , and www.blackboxvoting.org/toolkit.pdf . if you want to take part in the legal challenges or media challenges or field work (getting others organized and informed), there are instructions on all of those steps.

but first we need to win, preferably by large enough margins that it's impossible to steal (at least 53%, preferably 57-58%) - see this page for an explanation of why these numbers put an election out of range of dirty tricks: http://mydd.com/story/2006/10/25/13291/514 .

[Stephanie]

188. I would not go near blackboxvoting.org and I wouldn't recommend anyone else do so

we've been burned by them before.

and I reject this idea that we have to win by a margin large enough to compensate for their cheating. that's outrageous. we demand honest elections, period.

[greeneyedboy]

193. yes, we should insist on honest elections--and realize we don't have them right now.

as for BBV, suit yourself. the toolkit is very useful. i ignored that site for a year or two during whatever drama was going on, but was happy to find that very clear and practical guide on their site. ignore it if you want.

[Jackpine Radical]

183. I'll think of something.

[gordontron]

191. ok so what's the plan

I'm there

[moodforaday]

194. The plan is pretty clear

This is the plan:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[zonkers]

197. A DU sponsored townhall meeting on this topic would be a good thing to

have with special guests, etc. Don't you think?

[blues90]

206. Everything gets ignored

We just had a peace march in Hollywood and something like 1000 turned out . It was ignored , I saw nothing about it on any local news show . It's been the same as every protest to date . There were large protests before we went into Iraq , went ignored .

There are groups organizing but if people sign up and don't show then it won't work .

There is talk for years about shutting down the work force but this I fear won't happen .

The reality seems to be only if we are pushed into the living reality that we actually are face to face with a threat and there are millions of us then we will have to fight back .

There is fear of camps and crowd control weapons whcih is a rear fear for those who want change and the right thing

I don't see us ever leaving Iraq . I don't see the south affected by Katina ever back to what is was . I don't see jobs coming back of a way to bring then back in time to help many of us . These are all realities most of use don't ignore but feel helpless to do anything about unless we have personal funds and intent on doing something but this has not happened so far .

I don't know what to do , there are groups and there are so many important issues that need addressing that our base is to spread out and too thin to effect a change for any one of them .

We either lack the funds or the energy to hit the streets and most of us are not confident that protests alone will change a thing .

You can't count on elections to save us , you can only count of yourself and the support of millions of like minded people .

Bumper stickers and banners and slogans pose no threat to the powers that be .

What we needed was a constant buildup of support and numbers since 2000 to get the job done and we have not achieved this .

I don't want to come off as a downer but reality is here and I do think they will steal the elections once again .

It become very wearing after 6 years of this hell .

All effeorts and funds seem to go toward elections and the war machine when they should go to building back the america we have lost track of .

Most instinct of any animal is to avoid a threat until cornered , so I suppose we will need to find ourselves cornered in order to find that fight .

It is all pretty scary stuff and anyone of us can easily find ourselves with nothing in an instant . So what to do , what to do . I guess react is all we have left at this point .

[mirandapriestly]

209. You're right, I didn't read about it.

It's going to happen and I don't know what I'm going to do, even if thousands march they will ignore it and paint it as sore losing.

[mopinko]

210. we need the poll workers to unite.

they have the power. they are citizen officers of the court. they need to refuse to sign off on bogus counts, they need to stand up and yell that the counts are bogus.
they need to sign their poll tapes with-NO CONFIDENCE!
i will be a poll worker, and i intend to do just that. and i intend to scream bloody murder to whoever will listen.

[malaise]

211. Here's my favourite local journalist's take

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/columns/html/20061028T20...

<snip>
All of this makes the next elections a potentially explosive issue in the United States.
In Mexico some weeks ago, the candidate of the left was able to attract massive crowds to the capital to protest against what they thought was a stolen election. The anger seems to have subsided and Mexico City's streets are once again open to ordinary traffic. But what would happen in the United States, especially in populations so polarised by the president and the arrogant and corrupt behaviour of his party?

There are important and volatile minorities in several cities which may not take too kindly to the prospect of another two years of rule by Mr Hastert and his cronies and there are even bigger constituencies who are angry at the president for the war in Iraq and the inexorably mounting toll of death and human destruction.

[Penndems]

212. Check this out from the Sunday edition of the L.A. Times:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

This is the plan.

[Peggy Day]

215. The media will be at fault also

They don't report on protests, or totally underestimate the amount of people. They lie for the administration, and cover up anything needed to be covered up.
I think the media is the place to protest. They are co-conspirators and just as guilty for not reporting the truth.
Somehow the media's part has to be addressed this time. They have gotten off every time so far.

[emlev]

216. A few pieces of an answer to the question in the OP:

1. There is coordination happening. You'll hear about it very soon.

2. Support the call below by contacting candidates to urge that they wait to declare victory or concede defeat until all votes have been counted. PM me if you're a candidate and want the version written for candidates. This has been put together by several organizations and is purposely being circulated without affiliation. Groups can adopt it on their own, put it on their sites or their letterhead, add whatever introductory info they want, and let it fly! Contact candidates from all parties!

3. Gold Star Families for Peace (Cindy Sheehan's group) has called on people to protest in D.C. November 6-9. Info here

Much more to come very soon.


Democracy: It's Worth the Wait
DEMOCRACY: IT’S WORTH THE WAIT
A Citizen Call to Respect the Vote Counting Process

Contact the Candidates You Support and Make Your Expectation Clear Premature Concessions or Claims of Victory are an Insult to Democracy ALL BALLOTS MUST BE COUNTED BEFORE A VICTOR IS DECLARED

Candidates have no right to concede a race (or claim victory) if votes remain uncounted if recounts are being called for, if allegations of election misconduct exist. Elections are not personal contests between the individual candidates. They are the only basis for legitimate transfer of power in our government, based upon the Will of the People. It is the votes that determine the winner, not the candidates. Therefore candidates have no right to short-circuit the process, but have a duty to the voters to respect it.

Shaken Confidence & Illegitimate Results: Since 2000, the American public has become painfully aware of the damaged and shaky condition of our election process. Over the past six years, elections across the nation have produced outcomes that many Americans suspect are illegitimate. From Presidential elections to local elections, American voters have lost faith that their precious votes will be counted as cast. They question whether the election outcomes are truly reflecting the Will of the People.

History of Devastating Concessions: Will of the People Ignored In 2000, many Americans watched in dismay as no U.S. Senator would join with the Congressional Black Caucus to challenge the electors in Florida that emerged from a chaotic and aborted election. Apparently some Senators who might have stood with them were persuaded by Senator (and Presidential candidate) Al Gore not to do so. In 2004, Senator--and Presidential candidate--John Kerry conceded the race in the deciding state of Ohio before the vote count was complete and long before recounts and challenges would be decided. His concession came despite his later statement that “There are very troubling questions that have not yet been answered by Ohio election officials”. Despite Kerry’s available funds and lawyers, it took concerned citizens and third party candidates to actually mount a campaign for a recount in Ohio. More recently we had the 2006 election in California’s HD 50, where election integrity was compromised when election workers took voting machines home for “sleepovers” in the weeks before the election. This flawed election went unchallenged by the “losing” candidate and by her political party. Once again, citizen activists mounted the challenge to the election’s integrity and outcome.

Demoralizing Effect of Candidate Concessions: Concerned citizens who challenge suspect election outcomes have too often found themselves brushed aside with the statement that “The candidate already conceded. Why are you upset?”. While Al Gore and John Kerry are the two most high profile candidates to break trust with the voters, candidates at all levels of government need to understand that they are expected to commit themselves to ensuring that elections reflect the Will of the People.

Take Action: Candidates must stand up to the political “schoolyard bullies” who will taunt them with cries of “Sore Loser." They must put aside their concerns about possible future political comebacks. They must put the voters, the country, and the integrity of our elections first!

Please join us in demanding that every candidate respects the integrity of the election process and waits to claim victory or concede defeat until ALL the votes are counted. Contact Candidates Today!

[Stephanie]

220. Great info, thanks!

[meldroc]

241. I just emailed Paccione

I just sent her some more information on election fraud and urged her not to concede until every vote was counted.

Everyone here should be writing.

[goforit]

219. It's not Washington DC......It's the Corporations!!!...March where it counts.

[U4ikLefty]

230. Blame Ralph Nader while defending the DLC!!! n/t

[adamuu]

231. I know its hard not to be cynical at this point, but please be constructive n/t

[wordpix]

233. we need to hang out at the polling places and follow the trucks carrying ballots & computers

I'm not kidding. We really need to do this!

[Stephanie]

239. Here is Mark Crispin Miller's response to this thread >

This is from email - I sent him the link so he could read the thread and here is his reply, although I'm not sure if I agree with his idea of protesting the media companies. What do you think?

My own view is, of course, that the Repubs will steal it again; and also that
they'll smear the Democrats as would-be perpetrators of election fraud--
and that BushCo will attack Iran within a few days of Election Day. You can,
as they say, do the math yourself. The press and the Democrats will probably
just play their usual roles, although I guess a miracle is always possible.


So whatever we do now, or plan to do, we must do it with our eyes wide
open to these possibilities.


Now, if people want to flood the streets, I would suggest they do so not
as usual, i.e., by converging at the White House and/or Statehouses and/or
City Halls. I think we need to modify that tactic. If the media persists in
its refusal to report the truth about what's really gone down on Election
Day, we ought to protest at their doorsteps. New Yorkers should hit 43rd
St., to send a message to the New York Times, and folks in other cities
ought to gather at the offices of their respective dailies and TV stations.
(The headquarters of the media's parent companies would also be appropriate,
although I wouldn't want to see the demonstrations in NY diluted.) There
should be massive crowds right in the doorways of the Washington Post,
the Boston Globe, the LA Times, the Chicago Tribune, CNN in Atlanta,
et al.


Such a tactic would be most appropriate because the press so often either
tunes out or plays down mass demonstrations--and that would be much
harder if the media themselves are at the center of the action. Moreover,
one could argue that they, and not Bush/Cheney's GOP, are the real
culprits here, because BushCo is only doing what it's always planned to do,
whereas the press is, theoretically, obliged to help expose just such despotic
doings to the light of day, and yet they've been AWOL for quite some time.
So, if and when it comes to the crunch, we should be out there putting it
to them.


In the meantime, people should prepare themselves to monitor the contests
very closely, and to provide whatever info they discover to the activists
who will be there to get the word out. In short, they ought to go, right now,
to www.Opednews.com, and get involved.


MCM

[mom cat]

245. Check out what the Velvet Revolution is doing:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Donald Ian Rankin]

246. Go to the courts if proof of corruption exists, lose the election if not.

The ability of mass protests to influence the electoral process is negligable, and I for one am very glad indeed of that fact.

If it looks like the result of an election is the result of illegal actions then the thing to do is to look for as much hard evidence as possible as quickly as possible, and then take it to the courts.