Menendez just lost NJ. Goddamn it...gays I love ya', but couldn't you have waited.

[NoodleyAppendage]

WTF. Why is it that the gay marriage issues always crops up right before the election. I fully support homosexual rights, but this ruling by the NJ Supreme Court just energized the Christofascist vote and will likely result in an erosion of Dem wins in Nov.

Next time, can we just table the homosexual marriage thing until mid-election cycle?

J

[JackBeck]

1. Ex-squeeze me?

Gay people had no control over when this decision was announced, thank you very much. Maybe these couples should have just kept their mouths shut and never went to the court in the first place.

[NoodleyAppendage]

10. Look. I hear ya, but this victory is likely to cost us control of Congress or the Senate.

What good is this victory when it just sets us all back and puts more anti-gay politicans in office?

Make NO MISTAKE there will be push-back on this...just like in 2004.

J

[JackBeck]

18. Bull on the blowback theory.

That was debunked after the election. Besides, if less than 40% of registered voters turn out on election day to vote, what's that got to do with gay marriage? It seems to me we should focus OUR energy on GOTV and not blaming gay people.

[NoodleyAppendage]

53. O.K. You might be right, but I wouldn't bet the farm. I give the MSM 48 hours.

Rove will be on this issue like white on rice.

J

[grizmaster]

54. Just heard a discussion on NPR last night

that agrees with you on the almost nil affect of the gay marriage issue on voting patterns once all the numbers were examined in detail.

[Beetwasher]

22. *sigh* Not in NJ

NJ is a very liberal, sane state.

[JackBeck]

31. I grew up in South Jersey.

And just moved to North Jersey after living in Brooklyn for over 10 years. I'm proud of how progressive NJ has become over the years. Even Whitman was pro-gay.

[Beetwasher]

38. Yup, This Will Be A Whole Lotta Nothing In NJ

If Menendez plays it right, it could even help him.

[theHandpuppet]

36. Gay rights ARE HUMAN RIGHTS

When human rights become a "side issue" that this party can discard for votes then this party can KISS MY GAY ASS. At some point you take a stand not because it's popular, not because it will garner votes, but because IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO. Good thing Dems like you weren't around when Rosa Parks decided she wasn't going to take a seat in the back of the bus anymore.

Damn, your post really pisses me off.

[meganmonkey]

58. Ding ding ding!

It's easy to think of it as a game, because that's how the politicians treat it.

But policy (whether it is gay rights, the war, the loss of habeus corpus) effects real people in real ways. It isn't just in a vacuum or on TV. It is real.

I can't even believe this was posted here. I am guessing the OP is bored and looking for a flame war for kicks :shrug:

[wryter2000]

93. I don't blame you for being pissed

Maybe the OP could tell us when equal rights will be quite convenient for him. I have March 21st open on my calendar. Think that'll fit into the gay agenda? :sarcasm:

[dicknbush]

51. I am afraid yo are right....THe first thing I thought was Well Rove jsut did a jig....

In the Oval Office. THis is really going to be a problem and the righties are going to exploit it ASAP. It really may turn the tide. We are struggling as it is just to keep the momentum going and the ROve machine is just moving into second gear as witnessed in Tennesee. WE may be fucked now.

[cautiouslywaiting]

146. Yep, they will exploit this.

They're so scared of gays. Rove will definitely use this to scare the fundies to vote. Because those horrible gays (I'm bi) will take over the world. And force them to treat everyone equally.

[krkaufman]

62. If it does, then it does. And millions will suffer for it.

If the American people re-elect a Republican-controlled House and Senate, then we deserve the misery that's ahead. (Though I'm of the opinion that we sealed that fate in November 2004.)

[DU9598]

78. Too bad we gays don't just STFU, huh?

I guess as we gays fight or litigate for our civil rights that it is inconvenient to the straight members of the Democratic party. I wonder if there were members of the Democratic party who were po'ed at Thurgood Marshall for his litigation successes in bring civil rights to African Americans? I think those members became republicans.

I look at the decision as an affirmation that Democrats are on the right side of history and protect our founding father's views on equality for all citizens.

[kestrel91316]

89. The courts move at their OWN speed. Plaintiffs and defendants

generally don't get to dictate timing of such things, IIRC.

The only way to ensure no bad timing of controversial decisions is to never file any controversial cases. Ever.

This is just how things play out.

[mike_c]

102. this is the usual "centrist" crap....

"Now" is never the time to address progressive issues, because it will always energize the opposition, lose elections, etc. "This" election is always too important to risk on progressive issues. Always.

[meganmonkey]

138. We have to vote against it before

we can vote for it, don't ya know? :puke:

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

2. NJ is not NC.

n/t

[Freddie Stubbs]

28. No, but you can bet the TV news in NC will be covering this story

[NoodleyAppendage]

96. Thank you. Apparently people here are blinded to how things really work.

I will BET my screen name and discontinue it, if the Repukes do not make this a major campaign issue. Safe bet, IMHO.

j

[paparush]

88. Ya know something...yer right..

[iconoclastic cat]

3. No offense, Noodley, but nobody should have to wait for civil rights. nt

[WilliamPitt]

6. Amen

And I think the reports of this demise are greatly exaggerated.

[NoodleyAppendage]

20. Guys. I'm with you on this from a idealism standpoint. But, pragmatically it sucks.

Politically speaking this victory just handed Rove a MAJOR campaign issue. I know it shouldn't matter, but it does. We saw how much it mattered in 2004.

J

[Bluebear]

42. And the 04 exit polls were bullshit too.

[grizmaster]

66. You're wrong

I just heard a piece on NPR on how the gay marriage stuff on the ballots in '04 had almost no effect on the rest of the voting pattern.

[aquart]

4. What a ridiculous thing to say.

Menendez has NOTHING to do with it. This is a STATE issue. Menendez is FEDERAL.

And what a bigoted opinion of the people of New Jersey.

[Hav]

5. .

I read that the large majority of NJ sees it the same or just doesn't care about gay marriage.
I don't really think that it will affect other races in other states.

edit: And I'm sure that Menendez will win with a nice margin.

[Lex]

7. Quick! To the back of the bus, and try to blend in!

:eyes:

[iconoclastic cat]

79. Try this Homosexuality Bleaching Cream, too!

You might pass for straight AND white!

[LeftyMom]

8. rights trump political expedience

I'm not willing to throw our brothers and sisters under the bus just to win an election. In thirty years nobody's going to care who was elected in New Jersey in '06, but they sure will care that their parents were able to get married.

[Chovexani]

115. Thank you.

:hug:

[JackBeck]

9. NJ supports gay marriage 56%-39%

How's that bad for Menendez?

[Beetwasher]

17. Exactly

n/t

[The Backlash Cometh]

11. This may be a bigger problem for Crist in Florida.

[Beetwasher]

12. Oh Bullshit, This Is NJ, Not Hickville USA

People in NJ, for the most part, are quite liberal and will be ok w/ this. It will have zero effect on the election.

[stopbush]

25. Hicksville is on Long Island...

[Beetwasher]

29. I Said Hickville, Not Hicksville

n/t

[NoodleyAppendage]

80. If you are referring to Chapel Hill, NC. then you are sorely misinformed.

The Triangle Region of NC has one of the highest educational obtainment per capita of any region in the mid-Atlantic. Chapel Hill, where I reside, is a VERY liberal town.

Ignorance is on your part, my friend.

J

[Beetwasher]

91. LOL!!! YOU Are Calling ME Ignorant???? ROFL

After posting the drivel in the OP??? :rofl:

Umm, I was speaking allegorically when I said "Hickville", not about a specific geographical location. :eyes:

What the fuck would make you think I was talking about Chapel Hill? Did I say Chapel Hill anwhere?? Lay off the crack, Chester.

[lisa58]

32. Hey...

...I live in NJ and was born in Hicksville (NY) and I think Menendez will win - NJ knows we can't afford a repub majority in the senate - it's not sooooo knee-jerk around here (just property taxes)

[Beetwasher]

43. (just property taxes)

Uggh, tell me about it. Looking for houses there now. But I won't mind it so much when my kids are getting a good education!

[lisa58]

55. Where are you looking? n/t

[Beetwasher]

60. Essex

Bloomfield, Montclair...

[lisa58]

69. Yeah....

...you're asking for trouble up there. We're in Monmouth county and our town is certainly not the worst on taxes.

[AlCzervik]

13. way to insult NJ voters.

[closeupready]

14. It SHOULDN'T - pukes have done a bad job of running things

are you suggesting that dems are not an attractive choice?

[MrCoffee]

15. This isn't a federal issue, it's a state issue...Menendez doesn't have shit

to do with this. If his campaign staff can't get that basic message out, they're morans.

[Raster]

16. Surely you jest?

[DURHAM D]

19. I guess you don't really support homosexual rights or

you would not have posted this.

On second thought - If the NJ Supreme Court consists entirely of homosexuals maybe they were being political. You could (in theory) have a point.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

52. Pretty ballsy to say you "FULLY SUPPORT GAY RIGHTS" when you're

complaining about "the gays" not being able to wait for those rights.

[NoodleyAppendage]

64. Politics and the "right thing" often conflict.

Just watch the MSM in the next 48 hours. This ruling will be used against Dems nationally. It distracts the Christofascists from the war and brings them back to message on their bigotry. This is the pragmatics of how things will play out. I'm not saying it is right.

J

[JNelson6563]

150. Sometimes in politics

timing is everything. Until issue-motivated people learn this there will be no long term victories.

Julie

[treestar]

71. They used it last time, and the Christofascists may not be as

excitable on the subject, especially when it occurred in another state. They may see another godless-librul state doing its thing but whether they were going to get out and vote repuke in some other state doesn't seem likely to be affected by it. Repukes who were going to stay home but find this energizing to go and vote rethug don't seem to be a large group.

I could see worrying about those who were going to vote dem, but change their minds, thinking, Oh, yeah, I forgot, the war in Iraq and the loss of civil rights aren't that important, what if the gays can get married or have equal rights, and look how the libruls have taken over NJ, etc., etc. But how many people are this shallow and dumb?

In short, this would not seem to have much effect, much like many other little happenings, Foley, the stock market, and the other 115 things likely to be in the news between now and election day.

[grizmaster]

74. fully supporting gay rights means supporting them NOW

[DURHAM D]

90. Nice talk Noodley - the "... FUCK OFF, JERK" comment:

About your idea that you understand gays rights better than I do - I am gay and have been involved in the gay rights movement since the early 70s. Not much chance you understand better than I.

[NoodleyAppendage]

104. Sorry. But, I hate it when people assume I have no clue. I have a clue.

I have lived caring for someone with AIDS. I have lived three friends with HIV and declining health. I have lived supporting gay rights.

My comments were geared towards the pragmatism of the situation. You know, as well as I, that the Repukes are going to run on this issue and use it to rally their voter base. This is the simple truth of the situation.

J

[DURHAM D]

112. Sorry - hate mongering on any issue just isn't working

as well for the Repugs this year. They have over-used it.

[NoodleyAppendage]

127. Hope you are right. n/t

J

[Chovexani]

134. You have a clue? LOL, sorry

If you want people to think you have a clue, then try acting like you have one.

Sorry, you fail, and you can stop playing the "I have a gay friend" card.

[NoodleyAppendage]

139. Oh, I see. Opinions that are not like yours are wrong. I see.

I'm not going to waste keyboard clicks on your drivel.

J

[Maven]

21. Geezus, can't you even WAIT FIVE MINUTES? Can't you even applaud something

GOOD happening, for five minutes, to people that are scapegoated, slandered and shit upon in this country 24/7? FIVE MINUTES. To say, you know, congratulations?

Before crying in your soup, for your own reasons. "Poor me." Because, you know, it's not like you could just STAND UP FOR WHAT'S RIGHT, no matter what time it is.

[MrCoffee]

34. Standing Ovation, Sir!

:applause:

well said

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

47. I want to nominate your post.

:applause:

[myrna minx]

57. If I could nominate a this post, I would.

:applause:

Congratulations to my GLBT friends for having the great State of NJ recognize your rights! :bounce:

[grizmaster]

85. I join in in the 5 minutes applause

[Mandate My Ass]

141. Bra-vo, in fact, bravissimo.

:applause:

[AIJ Alom]

23. I live in NJ and you're wrong.

Menendez strongly favors gay rights and the Bush-bot Kean has no opinion.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

24. First of all, my rights don't wait for your convenience.

Secondly, Menendez and Kean have the same views on this matter and the majority in NJ supports same-sex marriage.

Thirdly, today was the last day before a liberal judge had to retire (forced retirement at 70), so no, it couldn't wait.

I can't believe the shit that some "Democrats" spew.

Edited to add: I see you're in North Carolina. Guess what? I live in a "red" NJ county and I know a bunch of Republicans who support gay marriage. NJ is not NC. It is an extremely liberal state.

[casus belli]

81. I agree with your points

And it is a very delicate situation. You shouldn't be forced "into the closet" or asked to hide who you are for any number of days to serve a political objective. However, as we have seen, this particular issue REALLY energizes the Republican base. And if we start to lose elections to those who are unfriendly to progress in this area, we will NEVER make progress. This is really more about how THEY will frame this and use it against us, then it is how we feel about it.

I'm willing to say if it costs us elections, then so be it. It needs to be stood up for, but in the long run, the timing of this COULD,(and I want to emphasize COULD) cost us some votes in crucial states who are watching it - in essence prolonging the struggle indefinitely instead of a couple weeks.

[wryter2000]

108. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[casus belli]

121. Thank you, thank you. Good to be among intelligent people. n/t

[karynnj]

100. Agree 100% -

I'm from the same "red" county and the Republicans are by and large social liberals - who like the big tax cuts. In fact, even this very red county is becoming bluer in reaction to the RW fundies.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

105. I know. Even Madison went to the Dems in the last election.

Plus Kean insulting the Italians will energize more voters than the gay marriage ruling.

[LynneSin]

26. If this was Tennessee or Missouri, I could possibly see it

But this is New Jersey and dispite the polls, Menendez would have won anyways. NJ is pretty liberal and pretty anti-Bush. This won't mean anything although mind you, it did cross my mind

[William769]

27. You "fully support homosexual rights"

Yea right. :eyes:

[Generator]

30. What is this November 3th, 2004?

Oh I will never forget those days on DU. I was sickened to my stomach. By the mass of people on here wanting, willing to give up every thing that the Democratic party is supposed to stand for-to win.

If we just give up Abortion-we can win!

If we just abandon the gays-we can win!

If we just let them have that little torture bill-we can win. OH oops that was last month!

IT's all about the values, right? What values do Democrats really have? I really do wonder.

Sorry if someone's actual life and liberty gets in the way of the POLITICAL GAME, because even if we win, what have we won? I really wonder.

[Bluebear]

37. November 3, 1956 more like it

I was sick to to stomach here in 04 too. Thank you for your post.

[Bluebear]

33. 'gays I love ya' - - - Do tell.. Did WE force this timing?

Do let us know when it's more convenient for you, but I think this case has been in the works for a good long time.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

59. Clearly homosexuals have tweaked the age of the judge.

It's all our fault that she has to retire tommorow.

[Bluebear]

67. It was hard work, but we did it. Thank you, Samantha Stephens!

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

73. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

May the Queer God Bless Her Soul!

[stopbush]

Yeah. If blacks hadn't been given the vote so long ago

the RNC wouldn't be running those racist ads against Harold Ford.

[liberalhistorian]

75. Yeah, why were they even given the vote, anyway?

They should have just sat back and shut up and been content with what little rights they DID have, and we wouldn't have to worry about whether they'll vote Dem or not! :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[lazyriver]

35. I'm not worried because of this.

I was born & raised in Jersey and it is actually a pretty sophisticated place. The "Christofaschist" presence is not very significant at all. IMO, the corruption stain on Menendez is far more damaging but hopefully not enough to cost him the race.

[wryter2000]

114. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[matcom]

39. MORAN Post of the Day!

:eyes:

[Bluebear]

50. Word, matcom, thanks. nt

[Midlodemocrat]

76. .

:applause:

[BattyDem]

40. NJ Chief Justice must retire tomorrow because of state law

That's why the ruling came today. The timing has nothing to do with the mid-term election or Menendez.

My niece and her partner will FINALLY have the rights they deserve! I don't really give a shit if the timing is "inconvenient" for some people because discrimination is even more inconvenient to those who are the victims of it.

[liberalhistorian]

41. First of all, the issue is stirred up by

the Reichwing to mobilize and energize their base; they know full well the advantage of continuing to pound on such an issue during an election.

Second, gays had no control whatsoever over when a court decision is issued, and it's totally unfair to place any blame whatsoever on them. Maybe they should just sit down and shut up and continue to be second-class citizens, would that suit you?

And third, and most important, people shouldn't have to wait for their basic civil rights. Would you have been among those chickenshit yellow-belly Democrats who told blacks to "wait, be patient, we don't want to stir up our southern base and the southern wing of the party against us" during the civil rights movement? They cared more about the party than they did the rights of certain groups of people. I would hope you wouldn't be among those who feel that way.

[flpoljunkie]

44. Kean support civil unions, too, which is what this SC decision does...so

this would hurt neither Menendez or Kean. This decision gives civil and legal rights to same sex couples that are enjoyed by married couples, but makes no decision regarding whether gays can be legally married in the state.

[grizmaster]

46. it's always the right time to fight injustice

Besides the timing is solely the court's doing

[meganmonkey]

48. Wow.

:popcorn:

[originalpckelly]

49. Yeah, you are right...

the Christian fundamentalists are sure to turn out in droves because of this decision now. They were the ones who might have helped us win the election, by staying home. So I wouldn't be surprised in the next week or so that it becomes widely accepted we are going to lose. Worst fucking time for this, you have to wonder why this happened right before the election and not after the election.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

83. It's not a plot. Liberal court judge has a forced retirement tommorow.

It couldn't wait.

[originalpckelly]

110. She is not liberal, the Chief Justice was appointed by and is a Republican...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deborah_T._Poritz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey_Supreme_Court#Current_configuration

So as you see this was probably very conveniently timed.

[NoodleyAppendage]

142. Thank you, again. Apparently facts are optional in this heated topic.

Delusional exhuberance.

J

[Richard Steele]

56. Stuff and nonsense. eom

[casus belli]

61. It's Front Page On Drudge

It's not a matter of what or how most progressives think of this argument. It's clear that the vast majority of Democrats are in favor of ensuring that gay couples are entitled to the same essential rights as heterosexual couples, but no one can argue that this WILL be twisted by Republicans to energize their base. And as we have seen in previous elections, this argument serves that end for them pretty effectively.

It's a slippery slope. Since if this causes us to lose elections in other states, we may never make progress in those states due to the loss of influence and election.

Even with the original civil rights movement, they didn't need a hammer to break an egg. The timing of this is conspicuous.

[NoodleyAppendage]

72. I TOLD YOU. This is the Repukes new Nov. election issue. Just watch...

People may think I'm a jerk for bringing up how this hurts the general election, but it will. Nothing rallys the christofascist voters like the thought of their precious marriage rights being granted to "sodomites." It sucks, but this the POLITICAL REALITY.

J

[Bluebear]

77. IT DIDN'T HURT IN 2004 EITHER!

And yes, you do appear to be a jerk, sorry!

[casus belli]

98. I don't know how you can say that

This was one of THE hot topic buttons they used to energize their base.

Listen, I'm willing to say that if it costs us elections, then so be it. I'm not going to act ashamed of our brothers and sisters to serve a political end or ask them to hide until the way is clear, but make no mistake about it they WILL frame this in a way that gets their base's blood boiling and appeals to their lesser instincts. And it may just work with this issue.

[Bluebear]

I can say it because the 2004 exit polls were disgracefully wrong. nt

[onenote]

123. You're not a jerk for noting its impact, you're a jerk for blaming gays

Are you willing to state that you are opposed to gay and lesbians seeking to establish through the courts their equal rights? Because that's what your OP suggests.

[NoodleyAppendage]

131. I'm not blaming gays. I'm wondering why we can't be smarter about our battles.

The timing of this ruling SUCKS politically. I know it is a correct decision, but it will hurt our chances in taking back Congress.

J

[onenote]

143. wouldn't know that from your OP

I don't disagree that the timing of this ruling may hurt Democrats politically in some races (although by how much is unknown). But your OP was critical not just of the timing of the decision, but of gays for having brought the case. At least that is how I read it, since the only thing that gays and lesbians controlled about this case was the fact that it was brought. As far as timing, the case dates back to 2002, was most recently argued last February -- why didn't you direct your ire at the court for the timing, rather than at those who brought the case?

[bullimiami]

63. i think our problem is mealy mouthing everything. we should be loud and

proud for all human rights be they for gays, women, white men, arabs. what the hell. we support torture and wont stand up for homosexuals?

[Nite Owl]

65. I really doubt that this will

affect anything in NJ. It just isn't the hot potato issue it is elsewhere here in the Northeast.

[dicknbush]

86. It really isn't about NJ or the North East.

They have always been more liberal. It has to do with Podunk Tennesee and Racist Haven Virginia. They are going to blast this decision out throught their mouth pieces via Limbaugh and Hannity and Bortz they will be pushing the noise of this as hard as they can anything to get Iraq and 90+ deaths off the front burner. Bush will make a declaration about trying to renergize the marriage amendment and the preachers will be preaching every Sunday from now until November. You will see. I would say this decision has put a Democratic win in the House in Jeapordy.

[karynnj]

68. This is NJ

It shouldn't be a problem - we are nearly as liberal as MA. the bigger issue is corruption. Menendez is being painted as corrupt because he's from Hudson county (Jersey City, Newark - urban,diverse) by Tom Kean who's from an afflent suburb.

[dicknbush]

70. Karl Rove is a happier man tonight then he was last night I can assure you...

Even if Menedez does hold on in NJ you can bet that Karl will use this decision in every rural backwater he can think of to show the liberal judges have to be stopped and the best way to stop them is to elect Repubs who appoint conservative judges. It really is bad news for Ford Webb and any election that is marginal at this point including house races.

[Midlodemocrat]

82. Actually, the marriage amendment here isn't expected

to pass with the huge majority everyone thought.

A lot of folks are undecided. It could well go our way.

[thrift_store_angel]

145. And those opposing the marriage amendment in Va

managed to raise about 3X the money that those supporting it did. The polls actually don't look so bad in Va, the marriage issue just isn't going to bring out the voters the way it did in 04.

[dicknbush]

97. Oh well cross your fingers it's going to be a bumppy two weeks

Take your dramamine daily!

[stopbush]

136. The day we live our lives worrying about what makes Rove happy

is the day the real terrorists have won.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

84. The last time around it wasn't the state itself that was hurt - it was natl.

The people in Mass. didn't care - but there was a backlash in the red states. It was red meat for the right wingers.

The people for gay rights have nothing to do with the timing - it was the NJ Supreme Court. This case was going on for a few years I suspect.

It's not just gay individuals who support the bill either - there are many straight people who feel that they should have the same rights.

[blm]

87. You think gays control the court ruling dates? Oh PUHLEEEZE!

The Republican-appointed judges in Massachusetts chose the timeframe in 2004, too.

[TechBear_Seattle]

92. When it is YOUR fundamental human rights being under attack

You may legitimately bitch and moan all you want. Until then... :spank:

[marmar]

94. Sorry but I think gay marriage has run its course as Repug fodder...

at least this year in the blue states. People are focused on too many other things to take the Republican wedge issue bait.

[ecstatic]

95. To those who say its just NJ, not the South...

Remember, this election is more national. Fox News will blast this news day and night and it will affect elections and votes in all the states. This is not just a NJ issue. Is it wrong to put gay marriage on the back burner? Probably, but remember, most Republicans, Independents, AND Democrats oppose gay marriage. So while the OP was insensitive to gay rights, he is right--we did just lose the election (or at least gave a smokescreen for evoting fraud).

[trudyco]

101. Yep, smokescreen for evoting fraud.....-nt

[Maven]

103. Well congratulations. You have your scapegoat in case something goes wrong.

Again.

How convenient for you. Stop all those GOTV efforts! Close up campaign headquarters! And don't bother countering any loudmouth boobs who might want to cultivate a "backlash" to suit their own ends! We've already lost. Thanks to those all-powerful evil rights-seeking gays.

Gosh, with "friends" like these in our own party, why ever do we feel compelled to seek help from the courts?

[theHandpuppet]

120. Bingo!

And you can believe it, every or any Dem loss in any race will be blamed on us. We are the cause of all the world's ills, not the 50% of Americans who are too lazy, ignorant or apathetic to take their butts to the polls and vote. It's us! It's the GAY PEOPLE who are ruining it for everyone, left or right!

[kerry-is-my-prez]

125. The scapegoat should be the rightwing crazies. THEY are bringing this

country down.

[ecstatic]

132. I would never blame the GLBT community if it doesn't go our way

I'm just being realistic about the situation. We have to start playing offense the same way Repuglicans do, we have plenty of time after Nov 3 to change laws etc. For now we MUST lay low and WIN!!

[Maven]

140. That's EXACTLY what you just did.

And to be quite frank, I really don't think that you or anyone who agrees with you on this thread are likely candidates to "play offense" on our behalf before Nov. 3, after Nov. 3, or ever, for that matter.

[Bluebear]

You just did!!!

[still_one]

109. well I guess you convienced me, I better not vote now

Bullshit, there are a lot of people hurting out there, and they know exactly why.

It concerns jobs, healthcare, Iraq, and much more

If people don't vote we lose, it is as simple as that

Remember the reason independents will vote Democratic isn't because of what the Democrats have done, it is because what this administration, and the republican congress have done

[still_one]

99. really, maybe you should tell that to the U.S. families who sacrificed

their family members in Iraq

Perhaps you should tell that to the seniors who hit the so-called donut hole in the medicare prescription bill, or perhaps the laid off workers whose jobs have been off-shored

It is as simple as this, if people come out and vote in numbers we win, otherwise, we deserve exactly what we get

[casus belli]

116. I sincerely hope you're right

It is amazing how well they are able to manipulate their base on issues like this. I hope America stays focused on the larger picture rather than getting sidetracked by these hot-button issues they like to throw out to scare and divide people.

That's not to say this isn't an important issue, because we shouldn't be willing to say "Let's just keep quiet about it until the election's over". But this stands a good chance of hurting our prospects in some close elections, which may set us ALL back indefinitely. We can't get ANYTHING done if we don't have any influence in decision making. We'll just have to let it play out, I guess.

[Reverend_Smitty]

106. I don't think I can add anything new to this thread

but gay rights were not a big issue in this election and the majority of NJ residents support civil unions so if Menendez loses, it won't be because of this...NJ voters don't have a high opinon of Republicans so I doubt this will be the reason why they would switch their vote 2 weeks before the election

[Chovexani]

107. You don't support GLBT rights and you don't love us.

You support equal rights when it's convenient.

Fuck that noise, with "friends" like this, who needs enemies?

[Bluebear]

111. It took like 5 minutes for the elation of the decision to be ruined.

We're "at fault". Again.

[Chovexani]

129. Seriously

Sometimes I wonder why the hell I even come around here anymore.

DU really is no better than Freak Republic now, it's just the opposite side of the same political hackery coin. It's all about "winning" like this is some kind of goddamn football game, and women/people of color/GLBT folks want to spoil the game or some shit.

I'm so done.

[Bluebear]

133. You're not alone.

Some of us here still believe. :(

[NoodleyAppendage]

135. Who's being "fascist" now...check your democratic ideals at the door.

Nice clown. How appropriate...

J

[NoodleyAppendage]

113. O.K. Let's just see what happens in the MSM within the next 48 hours.

You guys (and gals) can say I'm a jerk and whatnot, but let's just see what happens and how the Repukes handle it.

Anyone care to bet that the Repukes WILL NOT use this ruling as a major campaign issue and a method to rally their voter base? Come on. Stand by your convictions that I'm wrong...

J

[Bluebear]

119. THE REPUBLICANS DO NOT DEFINE US.

We stand for something. or we are SUPPOSED to.

[NoodleyAppendage]

126. We do stand for something, but those things are twisted against us.

We are better. We do stand for something good. But, the MSM does not allow that message to filter to the public. Instead, all they will hear is how the Dems want to errode "traditional marriage."

I see the Keith avatar in your messages. He is the ONLY MSM voice out there speaking the truth, while they have an army. The odds that our message is getting to a wider audience is slim.

J

[Bluebear]

130. See Harvey Korman's message above

'Geezus, can't you even WAIT FIVE MINUTES? Can't you even applaud something

GOOD happening, for five minutes, to people that are scapegoated, slandered and shit upon in this country 24/7? FIVE MINUTES. To say, you know, congratulations?

Before crying in your soup, for your own reasons. "Poor me." Because, you know, it's not like you could just STAND UP FOR WHAT'S RIGHT, no matter what time it is.'





That's all I can say to you right now.

[Chovexani]

144. You're a better person than I am

All that's coming out is frothing rage.

But maybe that's because I just qualified for benefits at work, and found out there's no domestic partner coverage. Only coverage is for legal spouses.

Luckily my adopted state's anti-gay marriage ballot item seems to be going nowhere fast. *sigh*

[Bluebear]

147. nah...

I just can't afford another computer monitor if I bust this one now :)

[Grebrook]

117. ITS OVER, NO ONE IN MEDIA TALKIN ABOUT IT, STORY IS OVER

[NoodleyAppendage]

122. Care to bet your screen name on it? Come on. Stand by your convictions.

J

[Bluebear]

124. I bet my life on human rights, not my screen name

[onenote]

118. Why are you blaming gays for the timing of the decision?

That makes absolutely no sense. You do realize that this case has been winding its way through the courts since 2002 -- that's right, more than four years. Would the be less political fallout if the decision had come out on November 10 instead of today? Probably. But unless you're willing to say that such lawsuits should never be brought, ever, you really should reconsider casting stones at those who brought this suit.

[Shakespeare]

152. Thank you. This fact needs to be STRONGLY pointed out to the OP.

Why the hell he thinks he can blame gays for this just boggles the mind.

[BootinUp]

128. I don't think so.

I think New Jersey voters are going to take the decision the right way that current law is wrong and unfair and it will not affect the Senate race in a big way.

*crosses fingers*

[AIJ Alom]

137. Something to ease your mind. Tom Kean Jr. and Robert Menendez have

the same stance on gay marriage.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/23/nyregion/23gay.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion&oref=slogin
"Others think that even if such a ruling were to galvanize Republicans elsewhere, it would barely register in New Jersey. Mr. Menendez and his Republican challenger, State Senator Thomas H. Kean Jr., have both supported some benefits for domestic partners, but have said they believe marriage should be between a man and a woman."

[Shakespeare]

148. You offend me to the core.

How dare you suggest to someone that their achievements in civil rights HARM us in any way. How fucking dare you.

[JNelson6563]

149. You mean think and act strategically??

:shrug:

[WI_DEM]

151. Sorry, if Menendez loses it is because he is thought of as corrupt

In a blue state and as an incumbent he is virutally neck and neck and the reason is because he has too many skeletons in his closet. Corzine should have really appointed somebody else, imo.

[novalib]

153. You Are UNHAPPY With This Decision??!!! WTF??!!

Its' about RIGHTS -- basic human rights -- for PEOPLE!!!

And you are UNHAPPY?!?!?!?! about this decision??!!!

WTF!?!

[Moderator]

154. Locking....

A similar thread was posted this morning and was locked. This is homophobic and divisive.