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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:46 PM
Original message
Toddler pours powder formula down baby’s throat


Kansas City police said Monday that a 5-month-old infant choked to death Sunday after his 3-year-old brother poured powdered formula down the baby’s throat.

The victim was identified as Mason Hodges of Salina. The death occurred Sunday afternoon in the 100 block of Northwest 102nd Street in Kansas City, North, while his parents were house sitting.

Police said the death appears to be accidental.

The boy’s father said he had laid Mason down for a brief moment. While the father was away, the toddler fed Mason powdered formula out of a can.

When the father returned to the room and saw Mason’s eyes, mouth and nose covered with the powder. The father tried to clear the baby’s airway, and then called 911 after the baby began choking.

Paramedics rushed the infant to a hospital, where he was pronounced dead.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/15831412.htm
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. sad
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. How sad. It seems just like a tragic accident.
Poor family.
:(
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LynzM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. That's heartbreaking....
I bet the brother was just trying to help feed the baby... god, that's awful.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. That's what I thought too
On the news, they said the dad had put both of the kids down for a nap. Then the older one got up and found some formula for the baby.

It is just so sad.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
4. Wow..only goes to show that one can not always
prevent harm from coming to your children... Who would ever have thought of this? I feel so badly for the entire family... Very sad accident...
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. We protect them from so many things
Who would ever imagine they need to be protected from baby formula?
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I certainly would not have thought about it, unless the toddler
had made comments about "feeding the baby" on some occasion... Even then, I don't know that I would have put the possible risk together from the comments...

No wonder so many parents become so overly protective...that vulnerability is frightening...
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
8. "Police said the death appears to be accidental."
I would hope so. I don't think there are many 5-year-old homocidal maniacs.

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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
9. How tragic
One of those freak accidents by what was, no doubt, a well-meaning child trying to help out.
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EmperorHasNoClothes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
10. IF YOU ARE A PARENT, TAKE CPR
We were required to by the NICU where our son stayed, and it saved his life a few months ago. Reading this story brought that whole experience back for me.

TAKE CPR CLASSES. You never know what might happen.

(just a public service announcement, by the way - I am in no way suggesting that the father didn't do everything he could to save his baby)
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Great suggestion!
I hope your son is doing okay.
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Kittycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. He's doing great.
I'm the wife of naked emperor ;) I need to update our blog, because I've lapsed since that incident. But our son is doing great, if you're interested in the story, you can read it by clicking on the blog link in my siggy.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
12. How sad n/t
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
13. wow, now they have to put warning labels on powdered formula!
keep out of reach of children!

how tragic. imagine being the child that survived, and living with the knowledge that you killed your sibling... obviously in a totally innocent way. just horribly tragic.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-25-06 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #13
33. Hopefully nobody will ever tell him
At his age, it shouldn't be something that would be remembered.
It is why supervision is so important...but not blaming the parents for this.
It is just a tragedy.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 07:13 AM
Response to Original message
14. This is why you baby proof your home
While it's impossible to think of every and any thing a kid might do to try to kill himself or others with any powder, fluid, gel, or just sticking paperclips or knives in an outlet, you have to CONSTANTLY think of how they can harm themelves.

I've raised lots of kids, three sons of my own, my latest is 21 months old, and he's right at the age where they will try ANYTHING.

They've found that kids don't feel REPULSED by things like gasoline or Drano, having not tasted much in their short lives they don't KNOW that gas and bleach ARE NASTY or dangerous, it's odd but they will think nothing of drinking it after smelling it.

I feel so bad for this father, but personally I spend ALL DAY walking around constantly pushing knives and forks to the BACK of the sink and counter, and the minute a kid rolls over it's time to REMOVE EVERYTHING that may harm them from the ground UP to your CHEST. Lock it up, throw it away, don't even trust the Childproof locks you buy for cabinets. Like I told my son who used to just cross the street at the light, "How do you know that those cars stopping at the red light have brakes that WORK? They may NOT STOP, so WAIT before you even cross the street.." etc.

Toddlers can drown in a TOILET or one of those Big 5 gallon industrial buckets that restaurant food comes in or that can contain paint. They can actually fall face first into an Open TOILET and cannot get back out.

Strange as it may sound, it has killed kids, and many people never even think of something so simple as that, toilet seat locks.

So take some time to baby proof your home, even powdered formula should be on a high shelf, and even if you have friends with kids who may visit, put everything up HIGH so only YOU can reach it.

This story really hits me, having a 21 month old, a very dangerous time, though truth be told ALL kids are trying to kill themselves up to about the age of 25 or so :)

My sympathies for the parent, god, who would have seen that coming, eh?
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. New forum. Same rant.
Do not childproof your home. Houseproof your child. Whilst this may not have been any use in this case, as a general rule, it is the better one, and even in this tragic case, it might have if the older child had been taught one simple rule.

It only needs one moment of inattention for disaster to strike, so it behooves all parents to do all they can to modifay their child's behvaiour to approach the novel with caution, and the dangerous not at all.

I'm sure that many would argue that exploration is perfectly natural child behaviour, and I won't disagree. However, what is not natural and what I have observed on many occasions, is for a parent to allow their child to explore without limits.

And don't bother telling me, I know not of what I speak. I have three nephews and a neice under the age of 6, (youngest under 2) and not one of them will go near open water without an adult present. IF they find cigarette lighters in their reach, they bring it to the nearest adult. That began with the oldest, after he got his feet lifted off the floor for playing with one and it's been something which has passed from child to child ever since. Indeed many of our family's houseproofing strategies, seem to be passed on in this fashion.

It all comes down to one simple rule: "If it's not yours, you don't touch without permission."

We all visit older relatives, friends, colleagues, etc. and often with kids in tow. Is it fair or reasonable that we expect that every place we visit be perfectly sanitised, so that our little monsters can be dropped on the floor and forgotten until it's time to leave? Not on your Nellie, and if you believe that the world should be this way, do us all a favour and get yourself sterilised. NOW!.

Someone's Grandma will get a little forgetful, and there will be open pill bottles all over the place. Who's fault is it if your child get's into grandma's pills? You will find the answer in the nearest mirror.

NOT YOUR'S! DON'T TOUCH! Anything else is false security.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Yeah, I've heard this rant before
Edited on Tue Oct-24-06 11:47 AM by symbolman
always from people who don't have kids.

Here's a little nugget. ALL kids are different, SOME will listen and SOME will not, just like grownups.

Depends on the personality,some are Type A others TYPE B, etc.. Risktakers and THINKERS, no two humans are alike.

Sterilised? A little harsh isn't it?

And by saying that if people bring kids over to someone elses house, and that's assuming that someone else is not a stranger, then it's only common decency to 'hide the knives'.

I've studied Child Psychology, AND worked in TWO nuthouses, there's a whole spectrum of people out there.

Some who are delusional about children, and those who actually raise them. Sounds like you got some violence in your family, might want to see a counselor about that. There is NEVER any reason to hit a kid, anyone that does needs their ass kicked. An 800 lb gorilla can be trained with simple voice commands, just try hitting one to make it do what YOU want :)

But it looks like you know all about that, a barrel of fun...

And the answer is, Granny gets to go to JAIL.
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Coventina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Keep your brats at home then.
Edited on Tue Oct-24-06 12:01 PM by Coventina
If that's your attitude.

If it's everyone else's fault that your kids can't stay out of Grandma's pills, you shouldn't be a parent.

On edit: By your logic, this father should go to jail because the formula was within reach of the toddler. Maybe the MOTHER should go to jail, because she wasn't breast-feeding!

Accidents happen in this life. It's tragic, I feel deep sympathy for this family.

A former manager of mine had a similar thing happen: her toddler gave an infant a small ball to play with and the baby choked to death on it.


I suppose my manager should have gone to jail....or maybe the toddler.

:eyes:
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. I don't have brats
and none of them have ever died, they are well mannered and brilliant.

Sorry that you condone stupidity, the other person condoned HITTING children, and as far as I know that's considered CHILD ABUSE.

There's no excuse for negligence, giving a kid a choking part is STUPID.

That's why there are warnings on CHOKING HAZARDS on toys are McDonalds, etc.

Because some people are just too fucking STUPID to keep their children safe.

Try making sense, it's a lot more fun, and kids don't DIE that way.

The father wss culpable for leaving out something that a child could use to kill another one. STUPID.

Of course that's the whole DARWIN'S LAW, and why my "brats" THRIVE while dumb people's kid's DIE.
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Coventina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. It's the PARENTS' responsibility to keep their kids safe
not the rest of the world.

For the record, I feel it is you that is not making sense.

Putting an elderly person in jail because a child gets into her medication? My, how very "progressive" of you.
Many elderly people have difficulty with child-proof lids and don't use them. I suppose they should all be put in jail.

Every time some tragic thing happens someone needs to go to jail, according to you I guess. Including the father in this story?

Would that help his family? The surviving child? Society at large?

:crazy:
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Granny goes to jail?
For having her own personal medications in her own home?
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. For leaving them out where a child can eat them
Yeah.

If Granny doesn't have the mental capacity to keep visitors to her home safe from DEATH, then she needs to be in a HOME where other's can protect her from herself and Others from her Negligence.

Pretty simple.

Grown ups are in charge, not kids.

Except for in the White House :)
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. Just for the record. I don't have children so my house isn't
child proof, however, when people have dropped in on me with toddlers, I have done a quick sweep of my house putting anything that could be harmful out of reach and watching that kid like a hawk until the visit is over.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Good for you
YOU are a nice person, and I'm grateful for someone so caring, if more people were like you there would be more sweet little ones running around.

Sure no one can expect you to have safety Plugs on hand to stick in sockets so the kid won't stick a fork in there, but you can't do everything.

It IS the parents responsibility in the end, some parents don't care, my ex wife would go to the beach, slather on the sun tan oil, put on the sunglasses and crash out in a lounge chair. Two minutes later my son was in 8 feet of water at age 3.

I watch them like a Hawk. :)

One thing people don't realize a lot of times is that Hard Candy can block an air passage in a heart beat, or that folks need to SPLIT a hot dog so if it DOES get stuck, there's a channel in the dog for the kid to get air until it's removed.

Maybe someone needs to put all this in a simple book for just about anyone to read, hand them out in hospitals with each newborn, the problem is with our exploded families and no older folks around to SHOW new parents all this stuff we end up with tragety, sad...

Nice to hear from a nice person :)
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-25-06 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #16
32. So where the hell did I come from?
These aren't my methods. These are the methods my mother used to raise me and my brothers and by many of her peers to raise mine. And we grew up in a world without childproof lids; when people thought nothing of putting kero in a coke bottle (and no I don't consider that to be a good idea); There were no pool fences.

Not at all harsh. Which end of the child psychology spectrum do you work? The neurosies(sp?) of spoiled rich kids, or the social welfare end? I suspect the former, rather than the latter, since if you worked there, you'd know a whole lot of parents who's parents should have been sterised.

Yeah fair enough to hide the knives, but should I also be expected to locate every breakable, valuable or potentialy dangerous object and put it out of reach? I spilled a bottle of asprin a month ago, how can I be sure I got them all? Where do you draw the line? There is potential lethalitly in virtually anything: A dog's water dish; a piece of kibble; the cable on your mouse; a rat pellet (shit); Any piece of string; a pencil or stick; Any number of toys (They'll all have at least one shot at using a Tonka truck as a skateboard). The list is endless.

Of course you have a whip around to remove the worst dangers, and your best crystal, but there is no way to render all environments childsafe. However, properly trained, a child rasied my mother's way, is relatively safe in most environments, up to and including the engineering workshop I grew up in.


It takes a special kind of person to train an 800 lb gorilla. Particularly if you start with an 800 lb gorilla. A very special kind of person, which demonstrably, most people, most definitely are not.

For the record, I'm a trained child carer. I know the methods, of which you speak, and yes I agree they do work. If properly executed. But there's the rub. If they're properly executed. Badly executed, the methods you advocate are disasterous and potentially lethal. To give one example, a boy I know and used to occasionally care for, developed a very bad habit of running into the street (and not at a todler, but as a 9 yo). Many, many times the world rearranged itself to accomodate him, then one day it didn't and he ended up in hospital for a week or so. A couple of months later he was nearly killed when he did exactly the same thing again.

In certain controlled environments, with properly trained carers, the methods you speak of are wonderful (and necessary). In the real world, with real people, real, dumb as dogshit, ignorant people, who won't or just plain can't learn, those mthods are a recipe for disaster. It takes a 20 week course to train a child carer to the most basic level, at which point they are quallified to provide limited care under the close supervision of a far more quallified carer. What training do parents get? A few basic mothercraft tips for their newborn and that's basically it. Anything else they pretty much have to figure out for themeselves.

As for hitting. I'll stake tens of millions of years of evolution up against a little over one generation of theory, particularly when taken as a whole that generation of children has been one of the worst behaved in history. Consider virtually every single species on this planet that cares for it's offspring. How are the acceptable limits on the behaviour of those ofspring established? Pain.

Pain evolved as a way of telling a creature that its behaviour, (or at least its current circumstances) is injurous or potentially so. And guess what? For hundreds of millions of years, it has worked. And for tens of millions of years violence, or the threat of it, has been used in a directed fashion in the raising of ofspring by creatures we consider to be possessed of at least rudimentary intelligence, up to and including the great apes, elephants and dolphins and whales.

BTW: I do not consider a clap on the nappy to be abusive as you intimate above. Short of hitting so hard you crack the kid's head on the ceiling, it can't possibly hurt, but it sure does get their attention. The greatest pain I have ever intentionally inflicted upon a child would be about that of a flicked rubber band, far less than they inflict upon themselves and each other on a daily basis.


Moving downthread.

"The other person", me, advocates occasionally smacking chidren, when their behaviour has the potential to cause serious harm or even death. Otherwise I use my voice (fortunately a strong baritone) or a turned back to let my disapproval be known.


"There's no excuse for negligence, giving a kid a choking part is STUPID.

That's why there are warnings on CHOKING HAZARDS on toys are McDonalds, etc."


Did you actually read what Coventina wrote? Her (I shall presume) case paralleled this one, in that an older child gave something (a small ball) to a younger child. What was the negligence? Probably nothing more than a moment's inattention. Something we are all guilty of and which we 999 times out of a thousand get away with without disaster.

"Because some people are just too fucking STUPID to keep their children safe."

Couldn't have said it better myself. Those people are also too stupid to learn how to raise children, "the civilised, scientific way". Very few of them however, are too stupid to learn how hard to smack a kid, and most too can manage when, according to "the old barbaric methods", that we poor benighted people used for the 8000 or so generations that modern humans have walked this earth, and the untold tens of thousands since we came down from the trees.

"The father wss culpable for leaving out something that a child could use to kill another one. STUPID."

So every single corner in your home is padded. You obviously have no funtiture, or your kids might have climbed on it, fallen and broken their neck. By the same logic, all of your windows are barred. And there is no item harder than a Nerf toy, and lighter than (say 40 lb) within 30 inches of floor level. (Better make that 48, so they can't pull something down on their heads) Further you have taken all your doors down in case a small head just happens to be in the way when the wind blows one shut.

Am I being ridiculous enough yet? It could as easily have been the stuffing out of a stuffed toy. There is no such effing thing as absolute safety, and that goes squared if you insist (as you appear to do) that all safety measures are external to the person being protected.



NOT YOURS! DON'T TOUCH!


We're not dicussing Grandma's mental capactiy. For the purpose of the exercise the presumption is that she can care for herself. However, her physical capabilities might not be up to childproof caps and high shelves. Should she be required to have someone come in to sanitise her home before she may have her grandkids come to visit?


"Grown ups are in charge, not kids."

¿Que? You completely rearrange your world, and expect the rest of the world to follow suit. Kids my not direct your world, but they definitely control its makeup.


"It IS the parents responsibility in the end, some parents don't care, my ex wife would go to the beach, slather on the sun tan oil, put on the sunglasses and crash out in a lounge chair. Two minutes later my son was in 8 feet of water at age 3."

Even when you argue your case, you prove mine. My three year old nephews (raised my mother's way) won't go near the water, unless accompanied by a responsible individual. Your kid, rasied your way, nearly drowned the moment your wife took her eyes off him.

There is no substitute for proper supervision. However, training a child to avoid the novel/dangerous is of immeasurable assitance.


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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-25-06 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #16
34. Actually a combination of the two is a little more effective
You childproof and you teach.
That way hopefully if one method fails, the other one won't.
Unfortunately, even the best laid plans fail.
Kids get hurt and they sometimes die.
Sometimes it IS just a faultless tragedy.

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Fierce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Makes sense to me.
Makes a lot more sense to teach kids to be responsible for themselves than to make the world perfect for them -- when it comes to childproofing or, hell, politics. With the understanding, of course, that a 3-year-old has an odd sense of self-control. But I agree that the main approach should be controlling one's self, not relying on the fact that the whole environment is safe. Common sense in all things.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. But according to their logic in that posting
the Toddler is supposed to Be Responsible, but the adults aren't. Grandma isn't supposed to keep Medication safe? Just hit the kid until they do exactly what you want? I never hit my kid, just carried him into his room and told him when he acted like everyone else he could come out again. They are people and need respect, if you hit them, that's what they learn, then you get a BUSH :)

That's why they invented "Child Proof" caps on meds, so if granny leaves OFF a child proof cap, seems like SHE's the one that damages the kid, the child not knowing any better..

Why can't people drink until they're 21? Drive until they're 16? Because they don't have the control, and ALL of society recognizes this as a Fact, no matter how much other's may want to think it's a kid's job.

A Child's self control can be groomed, but for the most part they don't have all that much of it. Usually they imitate the grownups, who they admire and since we stick things in wall sockets, they want to too.

We drink a beer, they see gas that looks like what we drink and they suck it down. No life experience kills a lot of people.
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. I hear you symbolman. I suppose some of the folks above may not have
Edited on Tue Oct-24-06 02:44 PM by izzybeans
finished the post you responded to.

Some people seem to think the presence of a child gives them carte blanche to act like assholes.

If someone told me to keep my brats at home I'd probably tell them to keep their ignorant ass in a rubber room. Part of parenting is knowing where your kids are welcome. If I want to go in public with my family that is my right. They have the right to be pissed, and also the right to hear me tell them get a life. I don't show up to friends houses with my son, unless it is a kid type thing.

My three year old attempts to do good deads similar to the act that led to this tragedy. There is no "houseproofing" a toddler. No child has the ability to engage in the complex reasoning necessary to mix up formula and feed a baby correctly. However they do have the desire and motivation to take care of their siblings. With that responsible parenting is necessary. The George Carlin mentality with children only works at the Laugh Shak with the yokals. Makes for some good laughs, perhaps a punch to the face when some ignorant bafoon takes it seriously, and nothing else....

so with that I agree with what you said. The pill thing with grandma perhaps could be handled with a hey mom I'm gonna put your pills in the medicine cabinet instead. ;)
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Right on :)
You HouseProof a DOG, not a kid, eh?

I agree with everything you posted, even grandma, sure - but there are people who DO go to jail for this, other's act like kids are dispensible, usually the ones I suspect that will just MAKE MORE, like Cheetos.

They are starting to jail people for negligence,like when an overweight woman takes her cute little baby to bed with them, roll over on them, suffocating them and finding them dead in the morning.

You should never sleep with an infant, no matter the weight, but the kid should know better, eh? :)

As for people doubting MY Progressive credentials, they have NO idea who they are talking to evidently. These same people, if I were to tell them of all the work I have done for Progressives are the first to claim I am then BRAGGING...

Amazing. There's no talking to some people, might as well tell the fridge to jump :)

YOU and some others here I appreciate, anyone who calls my kids BRATS and have never seen, met, smelled, talked to, etc must live in some alternet universe where you can just make shit up, anything to avoid reason. That statement was BIZARRE.

I'm willing to bet that you have happy, healthy kids, who want to emulate you and KNOW that you RESPECT THEM as PERSONS and not something you bang on to get it to work, like a shitty old car or a toaster.

I can see why there are so many fucked or dead kids with some of the crazy shit I'm seeing here..

As for granny, I guess that depends on if SHE is VIOLENT as well, coming from the same blood line.

I'm glad you are a parent, you've got all the makings of a Great one and your kids will be Proud to know you even when they are Teenagers :)
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Fierce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Where did I say adults don't have to be responsible,
or that by expecting a three-year-old to show responsibility, you're somehow absolving yourself of anything that happens? That would be stupid and foolish, and I didn't say it, nor do I advocate that, but I suspect you know that.
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demobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. You didn't say it
but he was referring to other posts above - not what you said. :)
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-25-06 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #26
36. Nice putting words in my mouth mate.
I never said, nor even implied that a toddler be responsible. Of course the adults have to be responsible. Responsible for ensuring that their child knows not to touch or approach things which could harm them.

Back to that rule again: "NOT YOURS! DON'T TOUCH!" Once they've learned that, the rest pretty much falls into place.

The only so called "childproof" caps which are reasonably likely to work are those which are beyond the physical strength (or the span of their hand) of the child to open, which may well put them beyond the capabilities of the average arthritic 70 year old.


It is not a kids job to be in control (more words in my mouth BTW). It is a parent's job to ensure that their child is capable of living in the real world as it actually is. NOT as you believe it should be.


You drink purple beer????? I don't think so. They see a liquid in a bottle, and if that bottle is just like one they know they are permitted to drink from then putting petrol in one is an invitation to disaster. (And an offense under Australian law.)

Izzybeans: It is indeed your right to take your children out in public. However, it is also my right to enjoy a movie or meal without your (or anyone else's) child screaming in my ear.

I'm not sure what you mean about people acting like arseholes. If your child intrudes on another person's space, then it is your responsibility as the child's parent to modify their behaviour. It is not the place of anyone else to put up with a child's intrusive behaviour.

Where, in anything I wrote, does "houseproofing" require complex reasoning. Four words. "NOT YOURS! DON'T TOUCH!" It's not perfect. However, it gives them a fair chance of survival no matter what the environment (within reason), whereas "childproofing" requires either hypervigilance, or that any environment enterered has to be modified to suit the needs of a child and any misstep is potentially lethal.

Symbolman: I suspect (as I suspect you also do) that the "Your brats." was along the lines of: If your kid acts like a brat, then neither they nor you are welcome in my home, I will avoid you if at all possible in public, and in a place like a quiet restaurant or a theatre, I do expect management to ask you to leave. In fact, if you don't show the common courtesy to remove yourself before management has to intervene, you can expect to hear quite a bit of comentary on your childrearing skills and methods. (Please note all "you"'s are generic, unless of course the cap fits.)

"I can see why there are so many fucked or dead kids with some of the crazy shit I'm seeing here.."

From where I stand, some of the most screwed up kids come from permissive parenting. And of course they're going to be screwed up, if they're belted black and blue at every turn, but that is not corrective punishment that is abuse plain and simple.

And now we get down into inuendo worthy of KKKarl himself. Why don't you ask me if I've stopped beating my wife while you're about it?
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-25-06 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. Oh you're going to have such a lovely time here
as soon as someone starts talking about STERILISING people it's time to hit the ignore button.

Too bad, I'll miss all the lengthy diatribes, but most people don't read more than 3 paragraphs before their eyes glaze over, not to mention the production of some of the longest winded hit and run posts, I think it's a record.

You really have nothing to say to me of any interest so, pass the wisdom along to the masses that crave red herrings for dinner, and straw men are so appropriate this time of year as well.

Man, you really shouldn't be too proud of being on a liberal board and talking about STERILISING, which you've repeated more than once, that's some scary shit.

Good luck with that, personally not interested, got a book to write and Hollywood liberals interested, and oddly enough it's all about ME and my adventures flying in Alaska looking for Uranium, crashing, being chased by bears, etc - that was after working in two nuthouses after getting out of Nam..

Yeah, I'm a privlidged little wuss, that's me :)

See ya later, enjoy the tete a tete with whoever will listen. Been here for six years, seen rants like yours so many times it reminds me of midwestern bands, they grow like CORN there.

Buh bye
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bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-25-06 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #15
39. How many children have you personally raised?
you speak of nephews and neices?

While you can teach a child not to touch...children are naturally curious and they do touch. Think of all the firearm disasters. There are 14 year olds who shoot siblings or friends accidentally because they just couldn't resist the urge to touch.

Hell there are adults who don't understand the "don't touch what does not belong to me" rule. Ever know people who go through other people's medicine cabinets? Ever hear of shoplifters?

It is a combination of methods, however babyproofing a house is at the top of the list.



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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
17. Poor baby.
:-(
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-25-06 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
35. 2 words
breast feeding
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-25-06 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. 4 words
Not all mothers can.
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