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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:21 PM
Original message
45% of Americans Support Making Cigarettes Illegal
Press release from the Drug Policy Alliance (www.drugpolicy.org ):

A startling Zogby Poll has found that 45% of Americans support making cigarettes illegal in the next five to ten years!!

This Thursday there will be a teleconference with leading drug policy, public health and law enforcement advocates who will discuss the significance of the poll and explain why outlawing cigarettes is not the way to deal with the harms of smoking.

For Immediate Release: For More Info: Tony Newman

October 23, 2006 (646) 335-5384

New Drug Policy Alliance/Zogby Poll Finds 45 Percent Support Making Cigarettes Illegal

Startling Numbers to be Discussed via Teleconference on Thursday, October 26 at 11:30 a.m. EST

A new Zogby Poll commissioned by the Drug Policy Alliance asked a sampling of 1,200 Americans if they would support federal legislation making cigarettes illegal in five to ten years.

The startling results will be released and discussed by Ethan Nadelmann, executive director of the Drug Policy Alliance, and others on a teleconference on Thursday, October 26, 2006 at 11:30 a.m. EST.

What: Teleconference releasing new Zogby Poll by the Drug Policy Alliance. The question asks Americans if they would support a federal law making cigarettes illegal within five to ten years.

When: Thursday, October 26, 2006 at 11:30 a.m. (EST)

Who: Ethan Nadelmann, executive director, Drug Policy Alliance, Norm Stamper, former Police Chief of Seattle and member, Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP), Allan Rosenfield, dean of the Mailman School of Public Health, Columbia University

The number of Americans who support criminalizing cigarette smokers is shocking, said Nadelmann. The question is not if cigarette smoking is dangerous and leads to premature death as, surely, it is and does. The question is how to best address cigarette smoking as a public health problem. Based on history and current policies, we know that prohibition often leads to devastating consequences.

The Drug Policy Alliance is the nations leading organization working to advance drug policies grounded in science, compassion, health and human rights.

The Zogby Poll, a Drug Policy Alliance press release and background material will be available at http://www.drugpolicy.org following the teleconference.


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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Only if they publicly execute all cigarette co. executives!!!
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
85. I've got some rope.
Yah know, if you need some, just say so. Cuz, I got rope.
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. you cannot be fucking serious
:wow:
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
78. Think about the pharmaceutical company profits on 'the patch'
They'd be all for such a move. More corporate welfare.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. Make an addictive poison illegal? No way!
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. i smoke, and i'd be all for making cigs illegal.
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Phillycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. Me too.
:thumbsup:
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. cool, let's make alcohol illegal too!
:eyes:
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. i don't drink, so alcohol isn't a problem for me
smoking is.
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. I see, it doesn't effect you, so you don't care
Nevermind that this is possibly the most asinine idea ever.

Since when did we decide to allow the government to decide for us whether or not to indulge in harmful activities?
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #37
44. sure i care...but like i said, i don't have an alcohol addiction.
if i couldn't buy smokes at the gas station, the grocery store, the drugstore, the tobacco shop, the convenience store, or a fucking vending machine, it would ABSOLUTELY cause me to stop.

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Phillycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Agree completely.
:thumbsup:
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:49 PM
Original message
You mean like all those morphine addicts...
who just quit cold turkey when they passed the Harrison Narcotics Act in 1914? :eyes:

You just don't realise how ridiculous what you're saying IS, do you? Someone would supply the demand for tobacco, legal or not. Same as with morphine, or alcohol in the 1920's.
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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #31
149. So, when a drunk driver kills your entire family
That's no problema? Very logical. Very thoughtful.
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Phillycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. I don't drink.
But I do smoke.
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L A Woman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #20
115. that would probably prolong my life...
but not really, because I would get a hold of some bathtub gin!!!
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kysrsoze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
101. Me three. I'm SICK of it. It's poison and extremely difficult to stop
I got all excited when the Chicago smoking ban went into effect until I found out it doesn't affect bars for another couple of years (at least).
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #101
121. Yeah - like we go to bars for our health.
So assinine.
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kysrsoze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #121
125. You might want to learn to spell "asinine" before you use it
Edited on Tue Oct-24-06 10:37 AM by kysrsoze
Nothing wrong with going to a bar to see your friends, is there? In fact, there are a few smoke-free bars. If you had followed the thread, you'd notice that I am a smoker and I want it banned. Next time you're ready to post something stupid and pointless, think about it beforehand.
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:29 PM
Original message
And then what would you do?
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Phillycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
26. I don't purchase illegal drugs, because they are illegal.
If cigs were illegal, I wouldn't buy them. I am law-abiding.
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HarukaTheTrophyWife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #26
66. Good for you, but obviously prohibition doesn't work for others.
Why clog up the system and waste money with more useless laws?
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
27. probably have to quit...if i can't get 'em at the 7-11
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #27
41. And if you have problems quitting, as addicts often do?
Would you be okay with being arrested, jailed, forced into compulsory drug treatment?

That's what prohibition means.
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #41
52. i know what prohibition means...and i know how many times i've tried to quit
and every single time, i end up buying a pack pretty much on auto-pilot. i seriously LOSE CONTROL of myself and head into the store for a pack. they're everywhere. grocery stores, gas stations, convenience stores, tobbacco shops, vending machines...

if that route was cut off, i wouldn't have the first idea how to get smokes. i don't know any drug dealers.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #52
60. Eh, you'd go into the corner store, to the back...where there's a phone booth!
You close the door, knock three times to the right of the phone, a small window will slide open and someone will whisper "Say the secret WOID!!!"

You say the secret 'woid' and place your order--hand over the dough, they hand over the smokes! Forget about always gettin' your favorite brand, though.....!!!!

Seriously, though, if you want to quit, try the patch or those lozenges...with maybe a little acupuncture, eh?
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:46 PM
Original message
like i never thought of the patch, or lozenges, or acupuncture, or
hypnosis, or tapes, or support groups, or gum, or...

i'm a junkie.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
67. Well, sheeee-it, just tryin' to be helpful
FWIW, I quit cold turkey.

Wasn't easy. It's a mind game.
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #67
72. i'm just saying that, for me, it would be a hell of a lot easier if the damn
things vanished from the face of the earth.
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William Bloode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #72
139. But they would not vanish.
They would just go underground, and next thing you know your paying $5 for a single cig. I just don't understand your(and others) fantasy that if made illegal they would just disappear.
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Tyrone Slothrop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #52
74. If they outlaw cigs, you'll know plenty of drug dealers
Trust me on that.
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pnb Donating Member (959 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #74
113. And even if he/she doesn't...
...it doesn't mean that a huge sweeping law that will effect millions of people and millions of dollars should be put into effect because this person is too weak to quit smoking on his/her own.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #52
84. cafe lattes will be next
Lets be free and take responsibility for our actions.
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #27
50. But not to worry! There'll be that guy outside the 7-11
On the corner. With a gun. Selling packs for $15. Gotta love the black market (and all it's consequences).
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. hell, they don't have to make them illegal...tax 'em up to $15...that'll work
Edited on Mon Oct-23-06 03:39 PM by MrCoffee
that'll work (subject line cut me off)
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HarukaTheTrophyWife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. Taxing them up to over $7 has already resulted in black market cigs in NYC
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #58
73. Well, in NH you can buy cartons for under thirty bucks, so I could see
it being worth someone's while to tool over to NH and buy a shitload of smokes and haul them back. Even if you gave a ten or twenty dollar discount per carton you could make some serious money.
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. Good for you...
it's time the public and private sector hypocrites give up nicotine addiction as a source of income.
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RC Quake Donating Member (202 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #25
65. And replace it with what?
That's a huge subsidy to just write-off. Just asking :shrug:
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
132. Taxes, more taxes, farming
The simple fact is that the city and federal government makes way too much money off them for a full ban. Some cities even use "sin" taxes to build stadiums, roads, schools, etc.

Not to mention the final straw for America's tobacco farmers.
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
5. Any Democrats going to support cigarette prohibition?
Please let me know so I know who not to vote for.

It is difficult to believe that after alcohol Prohibition and forty years of the failed war on drugs, anyone still believes prohibitions work, or that they solve more problems than they cause.

But then again, is this not the logical culmination of the anti-smoking movement?
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. Sure.
After all, as we well know, prohibition really really works!

:eyes:
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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
7. Then only outlaws will have cigarettes
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
8. At least phrohibit exposing others to smoke. nt
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misternormal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. I think we're already working on that.... n/t
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
9. How fucking stupid.
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. my thoughts exactly
:thumbsup:
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
11. Wow. What a breathtakingly stupid idea.
The War on Tobacco. Can you see it now? People selling "100 percent, Carolina-grown long-cut" on the street corners? Turf wars between rival tobacco dealers? Otherwise law-abiding citizens resorting to crime to appease their addiction?

Yeah, this is a great idea.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. I loved this quote that is too long to fit on the subject line:
"leading drug policy, public health and law enforcement advocates will ... explain why outlawing cigarettes is not the way to deal with the harms of smoking"

I wonder why outlawing marijuana, coke, heroin, Ecstasy etc is the way to go?
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
33. None of those people believe that drug prohibition works, either
After all, it is the Drug Policy Alliance and Law Enforcement Against Prohibition.
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
13. Yeah, fuck freedom we don't need it anyway.
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. America! Fuck yeah!
:D
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Will we have police raids on the upstairs girls' lavatory?
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misternormal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
14. Another fucking smoking thread???? n/t
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. You can ignore threads, or you can complain about them.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. It's not a smoking thread, it's a prohibition thread!
I just never understood why they don't raise the legal smoking age every few years. Or maybe enforce the laws already on the books to keep teens from buying cigarettes?
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misternormal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. My bad... To hell with prohibition... It doesn't work... n/t
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HarukaTheTrophyWife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
49. They just raised it in NJ to 19.
No grandfather law either. Kids that could buy cigs can't do it themselves anymore. It hasn't done anything except raise some revenue by fining people who sell to people under 19.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
35. They crop up like a zit before the prom, don't they? NT
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
19. I think that, among all the avoidable health concerns this world has,
the health concerns generated by smoking cigarettes is the most easily avoidable group out there.

If only people would listen to their lungs that first puff as a kid, instead of trying to be sooo damn "cool" ...

Barring that, why don't anti-tobacco people adopt the plans that Rush Limbaugh ($1000 per "morning-after pill") or some of these Religious Righties (video store can carry porn ... $10K per license per copy of each porno title it carries) and make the stores who sell cigarettes have to buy a license (renewable each year) to sell cigs? You know, $400 per pack ...

But then, of course, you'd have the black market going (like marijuana does) ...
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
23. Do it and kill the economies of KY and VA.
Well, Kentucky might get by since its largest cash crop is POT! Still, this will never happen.

But I'd better go smoke one while I still can ...

Bake
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
24. Have you ever seen a Jonesing smoker
paw through orange peels, eggshells and coffee grounds at 3 AM looking for a discarded butt that's still long enough to smoke?

It's not pretty.

I'm against banning any psychoactive substance, tobacco included.

However, anything that is smoked has to be regulated so that it's not inflicted upon unwilling people in enclosed spaces.
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calico1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
29. Hey, good idea! I mean...
Edited on Mon Oct-23-06 03:32 PM by calico1
look at how well prohibition worked! I can just see picture mafia types salivating over this possibility! And bootleggers!
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
30. They've forgotten how prohibition went so soon?
Good.

I'll get rich being a bootlegger
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
34. Outlaw sugar and fat too
People are going to be in more trouble with heart disease and diabetes in the next ten years. Let's outlaw everything that people over-indulge in. Some people do smoke socially, like cigar and pipe smokers. Some people become addicted. Just like with alcohol. This is just stupid. Focus on alleviating the despair that drives people to escape in the first place.
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
36. I smoke like a fish and drink like a chimney...
But there is a small part of me that would love to see them try to go for this. It would be funny to see where these people are going to get the tax revenues that tobacco generates.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #36
57. I'd say the "small government" GOP would have a shitfit!
Of course, nowadays, the holier than thou types that bitch about smoking are often the same people who, like Imus, should own stock in Nicorette, because the only thing they've changed is their method of delivery of their favorite drug, nicotine....gum, water, tablets, patches...the items that are supposed to help people TRANSITION from smoking are instead, the new delivery devices for their drug of choice! Someone's making money--that shit costs more than cigarettes, in some states!

I think the 'secondhand smoke' from smokers isn't as much of a worry as the crap that spews out of cars and trucks, if you look at the big picture...and no one's rushing to fix that problem. The air in NY and LA is ALWAYS disgusting, every time I go to those cities...you can TASTE it. So I have to laugh at people who get all offended by some poor bastard huddled on the corner pulling on a butt, while ignoring that diesel blast of black crap coming straight at them...!

And I don't smoke, anymore, and I've never used those nicotine aids, so I've no vested interest in protecting the smokers, particularly. I just think these threads are a bit humorous, how they crop up like mushrooms after a rain, in great bunches....!!
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
38. Here's an interesting list from U of Texas at Houston...
UTH

The following list of individuals was compiled from numerous sources including the "Cigarette Hall of Fame," a report by the Roswell Park Memorial Institution in Buffalo, New York, books, magazines, newspapers, and the internet. Please realize that it is difficult to compile such a list since information about smoking that might appear in an obituary is almost always censored.

Different sources occasionally differ in the cause of death for a person. I have assumed that all people dying of lung cancer, emphysema, aortic aneurysm, and head and neck cancers are smokers unless specifically stated in the references. Since tobacco is only one of the three major causes of heart disease, I generally only include individuals who I know smoked cigarettes and who died
of heart disease that are under the age of 60. Cigarette smoking has been shown to be much more common in heart attack patientsyounger than 60.

For other tobacco-related cancers, I have some reference that they were actually smokers.



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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #38
59. That's a list worthy of its own thread.
Edited on Mon Oct-23-06 03:46 PM by hedgehog
I know someone will quibble with some of the names, but all in all it's pretty overwhelming. Even for those who died in their 70's, death by cigarette is not a pleasant way to go.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
39. Oh, yeah...
Because prohibition has worked SO WELL for other drugs.

45% of Americans should get "I'm an idiot" tattooed on their foreheads so the rest of us can avoid them.

The percentage of smokers has been gradually dropping for decades now, and there's no reason to assume it won't continue to do so (especially in places where the taxes on cigarettes are astronomical).
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m_welby Donating Member (508 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
40. Considering how much tax revenue comes from cigs
it would be fiscally irresponsible to outlaw them. The loss in tax revenue would be devastating to the states, and the cost of enforcement would be devastating to everyone.

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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #40
119. Indeed...the taxes smokers pay....usually not recognized as beneficial....
....but take them completely away and there goes a shit load of revenue...the anti-smokin' nazi's will have to *cough* up taxes on something else to replace them...riiiight!! :smoke:
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
42. Great! Let's create even more criminals out of regular people!
Gotta fill up those private prisons. Let's go back to the prohibition age of the 20's while we're at it. Ludicrous.
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mongo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
43. "Based on history and current policies, we know that prohibition often leads to devastating conseque
Can you say war on (some) drugs?

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Bad Penny Donating Member (392 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
45. how long before Aspartame is made illegal?
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
47. Sounds like a very bad idea
I don't smoke, and I do support some restrictions (not as many as some people do) on where people can smoke; but this would be just as successful (hum!) as Prohibition in 1920s America, or the Drug War in so many places at present.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
48. Why not require them to be subject to standard safety laws?
You can't legally produce food or drink that gradually kills anyone who uses it, as well as people around them. You can't get away with it if you're building cars, or computers, or anything else either. So why not make it a legal requirement that any cigarettes or tobacco products sold in the US be certified to have no health risks?

As an aside, a few words about this poll. For one thing, I seriously doubt that that many people actually want to see a law banning cigarettes. However, the fact that they're willing to consider it is in large part due to the fact that many smokers are noxious about their habit. For every smoker who's polite and clean, and doesn't make others inhale their smoke, there's at least two who don't give a shit, and seem to enjoy choking out others and polluting the air around them. Worst of all the people who get obnoxious when asked to stop, and act like they're the ones who are being put upon because they can't practice their habit in bars or restaurants anymore.
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. You have to be joking
Almost all foods and beverages produced in this country gradually kill the user.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #55
138. Does cabbage kill half a million people a year?
Didn't think so.
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #138
156. Does cabbage figure heavily in the diets
of the majority of Americans who are obese? Probably not.

I'd be willing to bet that fried potatoes and soda contribute to at least a half-million deaths a year.
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HarukaTheTrophyWife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #48
63. Um...do you realize how much poison is in our foods?
The government allows our foods to be chock-full of hormones, antibiotics, pesticides, irratiated, treated with viruses to kill the bacteria, genetically modified, and now nanotechnology is going to be used.

I say they work on our food supply before the focus on the cigarettes. Everyone eats. Not everyone smokes or is around smokers a significant portion of their time.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #63
140. Not the same thing at all.
Actual food, no matter how bad (or overrated, as the case may be) the actual dangers are, doesn't kill a half a million people a year. Tobacco does. And actually, yes, the chances are that you ARE around smokers most of the time. Your chances of dying from smoking or from secondhand smoke are about twelve times worse than your chances of dying in a car accident with a drunk driver, but I don't think that you'd argue that drunk driving isn't a problem.
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querelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #48
76. Huh?
TheWraith said "You can't legally produce food or drink that gradually kills anyone who uses it". What about alcohol? What about overly processed foods? What about foods that contain pesticides, herbicides, or growth hormones? In the future, try to avoid such inane generalizations.

Q
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #76
137. Don't try to bullshit me.
Alcohol doesn't kill half a million people a year, tobacco does. Alcohol isn't inherently deadly, tobacco is. And "processed foods" is so pathetic it's not even worth talking about. Same for pesticides and growth hormone. If you seriously can't tell the difference between those things and cigarettes, either you're deliberately blind to reality, or your're making up one hell of a rationalization for smoking.
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populistdriven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
51. legalize all plants! free the herbs!
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
54. Simply amazing
2800 dead in Iraq and somebody is trying to mind the other guys business.
No wonder nothing gets done.
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. no kidding
:wtf:

When did it become ok for the government to decide what I do with my body-- be it smoke tabacco or pot?
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #54
62. Bingo! NT
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #54
151. "Land of the Free, Home of the Brave"
Should be "Land of sticking my nose in other peoples' business, while ignoring real serious issues, while allowing my personal freedoms too be used as a wedge issue." How brave is that?
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
61. What, they don't think organized crime is rich enough?
Folks, if you thought prohibition on Alcohol (which can be used without addicting the drinker) was impossible, and prohibition on Marijuana (which isn't physically addicting) was impossible, try imposing prohibition on a drug that not only is nearly impossible to break addiction from but addicts you pretty much as soon as you've conditioned your body to consume it--and that addicts almost everyone who uses it. This drug is worse than Smack.

There are smokers here. There are ex-smokers here. Try to think back to when you started smoking. I remember the kids smoking on the goat path at school--pretty much as soon as they were able to inhale without coughing, they craved cigarettes. And these things taste fucking nasty when you start, so it's not like they're all "oh these are super tasting, I MUST have this wonderful flavor." No, the nicotine grabs your ass early and keeps it.

http://groups.msn.com/FreedomFromTobaccoQuitSmokingNow/... is a kinda decent article...they tracked a group of kids who started smoking, and it seems that it only takes a few weeks to become hooked on cigarettes and about six months to become firmly addicted.

As much as we'd like to, there's no way to eliminate this product through legislation. Increase taxes and people will stop buying other luxuries--and, in some cases, minor necessities--so they can afford cigarettes. (Some people will quit smoking. Many won't.) Put restrictions on where they can be smoked, and people will figure out ways around these restrictions. Ban them, and the black market will be awash in tobacco products.
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
64. Anyone who thinks this is a good idea is a fucking idiot.
Prohibition didn't work on alcohol. It hasn't worked on cannabis, or cocaine, or heroin. ALL it does is create a black market, put money in the pockets of organised crime syndicates with the incentive to supply that black market, and make criminals out of a class of citizens who are otherwise harming no-one but themselves.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #64
71. I hate smoking, I hate cigerette smoke and I have to agree with you
:D
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #64
79. ... or a pharmaceutical company profiteer. (Consider: 'The Patch')
Profits on loan from God. :puke:
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
68. Why is tobacco legal when other "addictive" plants are not?
Edited on Mon Oct-23-06 03:52 PM by hedgehog
Because tobacco makes people work harder and longer at boring jobs. I'd love to see somebody correlate the rise in tobacco usage with the rise in the assembly line. By the time tobacco kills a worker, he or she is past their prime anyways and tobacco saves on pension costs.

Not that I support making tobacco illegal. It's just funny that it remained legal when harmful plants like marijuana were outlawed. I don't use either and don't advocate using them, I just enjoy pointing out the hypocrisy. Why does high class cocaine carry less of a penalty than low class crack?
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catnhatnh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
69. More simply....
...Ban the manufacture and sales of all cigarettes and ban the growing of tobacco for retail sales.If some desparate fool wants to grow their own,dandy-but illicit sales would be banned.A year from now the country would be 99% smoke free. And yes-I am a smoker...
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William Bloode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #69
141. Can i have what your smoking?
I really want some, if it's going to put me in a fantasy world like yours. All those folks growing their own would spill over to everyone else. Not to mention it would make smoking seem just that much cooler to kids.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
70. I'm a smoker and I wish they would
n/t
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
75. Sure, as soon as they criminalize candy bars, soda, and potato chips.
Edited on Mon Oct-23-06 04:02 PM by sinkingfeeling
Then, let's outlaw booze and beer. And finally, let's get rid of that awful Second Amendment. And then we'll talk about American 'freedom'!
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
77. Two words:
"Cigarette Tax".

It'll never happen.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #77
80. Exactly. Tax addiction dwarfs tobacco addiction. However ...
... the pharmaceutical companies are a very powerful lobby. The windfall profits from sale of nicotine patches might have them salivating like Niagara.
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Irreverend IX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #80
147. Yeah, but the tobacco lobby is almost as powerful.
With all the influence Philip Morris and friends have bought in Washington, I don't see how a cigarette ban could possibly be enacted.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #77
86. Seriously, if the dumbass government actually had 2 brain cells combined
they'd do the same with Marijuana.
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Oeditpus Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #86
89. Won't happen
No politician is going to risk re-election by getting behind a campaign to legalize reefer.

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
81. That would work like prohibition did.
A massive crime wave would ensue. Organized crime would never be richer should cigarettes be outlawed.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
82. keep America free!
Prohibition never works!
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bullwinkle428 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
83. So much for decriminalizing/relaxing laws prohibiting marijuana use,
if this is how so many people feel about tobacco these days...
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Tikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
87. I started smoking in my teens because of....
peer pressure....I was weak in those days.

And one of the reasons I quit smoking was because of peer pressure...

Older and wiser and healthier....



Tikki
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
88. Great lets fill our prisons with cigarette smokers too
Edited on Mon Oct-23-06 05:08 PM by Hippo_Tron
They aren't being crowded fast enough with pot smokers. Also is this going to apply to all forms of tobacco or just cigarettes. Because frankly I enjoy my occasional cigar.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
90. Well, at least it would be consistent.
More sensible, in my mind, however, is to end the drug war-- let consenting adults make up their own minds across the board, but if they want to smoke anything in public, they have to do it outside.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
91. Just out of curiousity, how many here think a cigarette ban is silly....
...but want to ban guns (or just handguns)?

Do you think that might be a little self-contradictory considering that in this country 400,000 (conservatively) die from tobacco every year (the same as three full 747s crashing w/o survivors every day) including about 5000 verified from 2nd hand smoke versus no more than 5000 gun-related deaths (including self defense, accident and suicide)?
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #91
92. I don't want to ban either.
Edited on Mon Oct-23-06 05:24 PM by impeachdubya
But I don't want to be around people lighting up cigarettes or firing off guns inside, say, restaurants.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #92
93. I only fire guns in designated gun-shooting areas.
I have to drive a long way to get there.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. Seems to me most of the debate isn't around whether smoking should be legal
but rather, where.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #94
96. The truth is I could stop shooting tomorrow.
Smokers cannot. They can't because before they were old enough to know better, they gave away that freedom to a fortune 500 corportation who does not give a shit about them as long as they keep buying their product. They are slave who are paying for the right to die from their enslavement. Government encroachment--what horseshit!
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
95. That worked so well during prohibition when liquor was banned.
It will only bring out a criminal element that will sell bootleg tobacco. Why don't these people learn from previous mistakes?
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
97. great! Since we're doing such a terrific job in the war on drugs....
let's expand the war to another front!

:eyes:
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
98. PROHIBITION DOES NOT WORK!!!
:crazy: Criminalizing cigarette smokers is FUCKING INSANE!!!! :crazy:

:crazy: ... and I don't smoke cigarettes! :crazy:

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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
99. BFD. 60% of those polled were DRUNK when asked the question.
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Demit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #99
102. LOL! Or just pleasantly maintaining on Paxil. n/t
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One_Life_To_Give Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
100. Cost in Canada $35/carton, here $100/carton
For $65 a carton I could make a nice profit with a RumCig Runner on the lakes.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #100
143. Hey! Cool!
It'll create more jobs! :sarcasm:
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #143
144. poverty is almost twice the level in the USA..
17% of our country is in poverty while only 10% of Canada's population is impoverished. But in the USA more of those people in poverty work their butts off just to stay in poverty, while in Canada having a job actually means something! the only people who would lose a job because of a tobacco tax would be a cigarette advertiser or the politician who wants smoking to be illegal!
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citizen snips Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
103. I don't smoke
and I think that is a bad idea.
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
104. a combination of three groups of people...
this includes liberals and conservatives who saw someone they loved very much suffer because of lung cancer or struggle through the last years of life with no teeth. IMO the rest are probably Mormons or former smokers who had a hell of a time quiting!

Making smoking illegal goes against the basic principles of liberalism, and the few neocons who firmly believe smoking should be illegal are those who view it as a depraved crime against God.

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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
105. Simply amazing...
Just think

1. No tobacco, no Sir Walter Raleigh
2. No Sir Walter Raleigh, no English colonies.
3. No English colonies, no America.

This bit goes through and this nation divests itself of it's roots and WILL be adrift.

A pity the experiment in freedom is over.

(And before the white man arrived this plant was sacred)
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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
106. and what % of americans voted for bush?
Fucking idiots are everywhere. even in this thread.

:eyes:

prohibition brings this:



RL
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StraightDope Donating Member (716 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
107. And what do we do with that inveterate smoker who refuses to quit?
Lock him up? Fine him such that he can't feed himself or his family? Execute him?

What would the penalty be? I can't think of one that would function effectively as a deterrent and also fit the scope of the "crime".

Prohibition is ALWAYS wrong.

Anticipating the likely responses, yes, even with heroin, crack/cocaine, and methamphetamine.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
108. 45 percent of americans retarded?
That worked great for drugs. I mean I would have to make 2 phone calls to find any illegal substance.

Prohibition is always a bad idea.

If I hadn't had to sit through stats I would really be concerned about this. In reality it is a bullshit push poll or some other shell game.

"would you make cigarettes illegal?, if i gave you 1000 bucks and it cured all cancer..

Please
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
109. LOL
yeah, right.
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Blackthorn Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
110. **NEWSFLASH** - 55% of people DON'T want to make smokes illegal.
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
111. So anyone caught with a rolling machine will go to jail? Or will smoking
cigarettes be against the law?
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Fuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
112. Oh please help save me from myself!!!
I need the government to save me from doing bad things!!!
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #112
114. I agree..smokers should pay a price
Edited on Mon Oct-23-06 08:13 PM by flaminbats
have fun smoking, but please stop complaining about consequences. :grr: If anyone needs to pay the resulting medical bill, smokers do! That is why we have a cigarette tax, because treatment for cancer and heart disease ain't cheap..

I know exactly what you mean..just think of all the people with juvenile diabetes who have to pay to inject themselves with insulin several times a day just to eat, or those who must live daily with Parkensan's...although none of those people did it to themselves!
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #114
127. So tax all unhealthful products then
Why single out smokers? Why not tax hfcs, trans fats, carcinogens in shampoos, etc.?
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #127
134. never fear...
Edited on Tue Oct-24-06 01:46 PM by flaminbats
the larger our national debt becomes, the more each of us will pay in taxes. I don't believe we should single out anyone, just that anyone who can pay will ultimately pay. obviously people like cigarettes, but how much money will a single person waste for those cigarettes? At least most of that money can ultimately be used for some kind of public service.

if someone has the money to waste on cigarettes, alcohol, or marijuana..then that person has the money needed to help support a national healthcare system..and thus helping others who aren't given such a nice choice!
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #134
152. I just don't understand why particular products
that are unhealthful are heavily taxed, and others aren't.

Maybe people would start eating fresh fruit if french fries were five bucks a bag--ever think of that?
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #152
158. most people don't get addicted to french fries
for one person those french fries are unhealthy, for a diabetic with really low blood-sugar it could be a lifesaver! But for both of these people, cigarettes only make their health worse.

Actually one can claim that the free market is our ultimate tax. supply and demand eventually decides the true value of product, or what a person is willing to pay for it. Please remember that I believe cigarettes should be legal, but regulated by the FDA. And that doesn't mean crystal meth or opium should be legalized, thus we need a government that goes after illegal drugs that people will never recover from.

you asked a good question...why some unhealthy products are taxed and others are not? IMO this will happen eventually, with a little more time and a few more trillions onto the national debt. Too many people now laugh whenever I bring up deficit spending, but eventually we all will pay the price. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

That doesn't mean I like taxes...in a perfect world people could eat, smoke, drink, and life would always get better. Unfortunately that isn't the world we live in today.
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #158
159. I don't know--junk food is pretty addictive.
I've watched people struggling with it.

I disagree with you about illegal drugs--decriminalization is the only strategy known to help addicts. Interdiction keeps the mafia in business.
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #159
164. I think cigarettes should be legal..
that doesn't mean they should be illegally mixed with crystal meth and pushed on the streets!

My doctor has never told me to beware of any types of food that result in a chemical dependency or addiction, he has warned me that I don't eat enough for someone my height. I have no problem with people starting a healthy diet, or people who count every carb of what they eat.

Ironically most of the people I know who are overweight eat far less than I do! metabolism varies from person to person, but cigarettes are bad for all of us. The longer we stay in Iraq, the longer we allow our deficits grow..the sooner the cost of living will increase for everyone. So basically...what's your point? end all taxes, raise all taxes, let's bring back social darwinism, make smoking illegal, or start a national sales tax?

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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #164
165. None of the above.
I think that various interest groups are trying to brew up a War on Tobacco that will be just as ineffective yet damaging to democracy as the War on Drugs.

I think the government should intervene in people's health in positive rather than negative ways. It should be promoting health instead of trying to prohibit unhealthy behaviors.

The demonization of smokers on DU just shows that, sadly, the Democrats are not going to break pattern--we have always been suckered into every "War On" that the right invents.
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #165
167. when have I demonized smokers?
I watched someone I loved and admired as a child just die in misery from the stuff. let me repeat my point...smoking should be legal, it should be taxed, and it should be regulated..just like anything else in life! life isn't free, and neither is universal healthcare.

Now what is the point you're trying to make? should cigarettes be taxless, should the government just stop funding Medicare..if that is your point, then post it..debate over. But please don't start a debate, and then just leave me in the dark! :shrug:
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #167
168. Cigarette taxes mostly affect the poor,
who increasingly do most of the smoking.

I'm against taxes that disproportionately affect the poor. How about funding healthcare out of pharmaceutical industry profits?
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #114
163. Some diabetics may do it to themselves
Obesity is a major contributing factor to Type 2 Diabetes. If anyone needs to pay the resulting medical bill, damn twinkie eaters do!

How far are we going to go with this?
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #163
166. go with what?
sorry...but its the type 1 diabetics who have to stick a needle in themselves just to eat! and each shot too often cost more than the goddamn meal.

who cares? why should any of us pay taxes, why should any disease have a cure, why should a rich person pay a higher tax rate than a poor person, why should a smoker pay anything to ruin his or her health, and why should we get anything in return for the taxes we pay?

and by the way..if diabetics do it to themselves, then why does my doctor tell me that weight loss doesn't cure or prevent diabetis...it only makes the bloodsugar for a type 2 a little easier to manage?
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #166
170. Smoking doesn't CAUSE all the deaths attributed to it
Lung cancer is one thing, but the 400,000 deaths figure we are hearing lately are "smoking related" deaths. That means anytime a smoker dies of any illness, be it a heart attack, stroke, pneumonia, what have you, smoking is considered a contributing factor. It's possible that quitting smoking or never smoking at all may only make certain conditions "easier to manage", as with the weight and Type 2 diabetes. Some smokers live to be a hundred with no problems.

Look, smokers already pay a fortune in taxes. Every pack is 80% tax, between federal, state, and local surcharges. If everyone quit smoking tomorrow, there would be a substantial loss of revenue to a lot of coffers and that cost would have to be shifted to something else. A Twinkie tax would almost be a certainty.
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #170
171. why are you a Democrat?
I'm a Democrat because of things like the cigarette tax. I hope we can have a universal healthcare system someday, and this is only one way to pay for it.

With the cigarette tax, the smokers would pay more than enough to cover any problems caused by smoking. Everytime a smoker pays for a pack...they are helping to cover the uninsured, to reduce the deficit, and to help pay for the problems caused by smoking.

If I didn't care, I would support no tax on tobacco..make it as cheap as possible. I would oppose Kennedy-Kassebaum, and I would argue that Social Security is only bad for the economy. Universal healthcare, just let those with medical problems die. Why should any of us pay for this war in Iraq..whether we support it or not?

No twinkie tax...don't hold your breath, because this national debt has to be paid back eventually!
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #171
172. Excuse me?
Your post is hovering on the border of alert-able flamebait. I don't know where you are getting all these other things from what I posted. I think you are extrapolating wildly.

As for the cigarette tax, I don't oppose it at all. I'm merely pointing out that if it acheives one of its ultimate goals, that is people quitting smoking, then the revenue will have to come from somewhere else. Hell, I support legalizing, regulating, and taxing marijuana, largely for the reasons you state. I believe the money saved by no longer criminalizing it, combined with the taxes collected, could go toward providing universal health care.

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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
116. We have to ban guns first.
:evilfrown: :evilgrin:
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L A Woman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
117. Regardless of the opinion of those people, I doubt it will happen
It's still a very politically powerful business and there are too many fat cats in Washington who smoke.

I hate cigarettes, but I don't think a ban would work. When I smoked, there wasn't much that could keep me away from them!!!!
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
118. Prohibition doesn't work. Never has, never will.
I despise cigarettes, but banning them is not the answer. Banning unwilling exposure where applicable, yes.

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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
120. I guess a cigarette would be as hard to find as a gram of cocaine

:rofl:
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HarukaTheTrophyWife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #120
126. Yeah, I'll have to send a text message to get my cigs.
:rofl:
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In_The_Wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
122. Like ~ our police officers don't already have enough to keep 'em busy.

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
123. 100% of WilliamPitts don't give a shit
Got some elections to win.
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #123
128. "All Your Marlboro's Are Belong To Us!"
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
124. LET'S just bring back prohibition on booze
because it worked so well the first time...

let's ban automobiles because they cause pollution and kill people

let's ban french fries, hamburgers and other fatty foods

let's ban everything and protect the easily offended and hypochrondriates

free habitate bubbles for everyone
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
129. It'd be nice...
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
130. 45% believe in making them illegally...
is better than the 55% who believe in making them legally...


gosh, have they learned nothing at all from pohibition.
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Beelzebud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
131. A bunch of idiots think evolution is fake.
Most Americans are dumbasses.

That doesn't mean we should listen to them.
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transeo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
133. Because that's been so effective with pot?
Whatever. I'm not a smoker but to make cigarettes illegal? STUPID! It will backfire like prohibition and the drug war.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
135. Ya know, I don't smoke,
and I can't stand the smell of cigarette smoke, but this is just fucking wrong!
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William Bloode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
136. It'll never fuckin' work!
All it will do is create another huge black market. Look folks i have been in places where smoking was banned. Places like jails, and mental facilities. Did the smoking ban stop anyone from smoking? No as a matter of fact not. All that happened was people were paying $5 for a single cig, that or beating the shit out of any one who had some cigs

The only thing i saw was increased violence, increased risk to health (due to the way they broke down and sold "roll ups" which could contain anything as a filler)and a nice thriving black market. It so simple. If you can't stop smoking in a maximum security prison facility, how the hell are you going to stop it in an open society.

Dumbest fucking idea ever!
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Bassic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #136
146. And that's why my answer is also dumb.
Thanks, I needed that.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #136
155. Precisely correct. Furthermore, the reason other dugs continue
to be illegal is to keep the price so high for the black marketters such as the CIA. Remember Hasefuss.
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SouthernBelle82 Donating Member (879 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
142. Oh good grief
Message to those people: don't like smoking? Don't smoke! What someone does with their lives should be their business. Education on everything definitley but to outlaw it? I don't think so. That would be even more people in jail for nothing. Aren't our prison's already over crowded?
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Bassic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
145. If they made em illegal, then I wouldn't have such a hard time quitting.
But that is a shor-sighted approach.
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
148. Yeah, prohibition is SOOOO effective. nt
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
150. Authoritarianism rears its ugly head once again.
Edited on Tue Oct-24-06 03:34 PM by Selatius
I favor keeping a tax on them, not outlawing them. People learned nothing from the Drug War or Prohibition. I guess bad habits can't be broken.

If you want to commit suicide slowly by smoking cigarettes, be my guest, but don't bitch about high taxes on it and expect me to lend a sympathetic ear for your habit. If you want to burden the health care system, something everybody uses, then you should have to pay proportional to the burden you place on the system.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
153. I can't stand smoking
But I don't mind people smoking in their own homes and places outside that aren't enclosed.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
154. This nonsmoker does not want to go there
It is enough for me that smoking is banned in public places. That is as it should be. It is a health issue and no one should be exposed to second hand smoke.

We've been down that path before with alcohol and we are still on that path with marijuana. Either of those substances can be damaging if used immoderately. Nevertheless, law enforcement should be out preventing burglaries and not chasing down smokers.
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Conan_The_Barbarian Donating Member (404 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
157. PLEASE MAKE THEM ILLEGAL!
Edited on Tue Oct-24-06 04:14 PM by Conan_The_Barbarian
Oh my god I hope this becomes a reality! It would be soooooo incredibly easy to beat the system and while making shitloads of cash. PROHIBITION 2 BABY! HERE I COME!!!

All aboard the easy money train WOO WOO!!!
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
160. 46% think pot should be legal, according to Zogby. n/t
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
161. This is a load of hogwash
I'll be curious to see the methodology here.

Sounds to me more like this groups hired Zogby to go out get them a result- and he obliged.
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madmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
162. The more that is illegal or immoral...
The ricer the Mafia is.
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Keepontruking Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-24-06 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
169. People People People
If we outlaw everything that is bad for us we will have
nothing left.....aspirins, fatty foods, Tylenol, Alcohol,
Cars, Trucks, Trains, Planes...We don't need more free
choices taken away.....ok limit smoking areas...like drinking
areas ...but now we enter the black market of POT and
Cigs!!!!!!!!!!  Come on!  We are suppose to be the country of
the free !  If you can't stop yourself from smoking, or
drinking, or watching porn, or overeating or killing off your
liver or committing suicide do you really think the Government
should be your baby Sitter???
Circus Girl
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