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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:22 PM
Original message
Is America ready for a black or female president?
I mean, I know you and I are, we liberals don't even see it as a race or gender question, but let's be honest, several million other Americans DO see it in terms of race and sex.

I was listening to msnbc pundits discuss these very issues, they were discussing Harold Ford, and Barak Obama and Hillary Clinton both running for president, possibly as opponents.

Did anyone else witness this discussion? The one talking head seemed to suggest that America may not be quite ready for the shock of a black or female president, or maybe he meant more than suggestion, maybe he outright inferred it.

I know that several million Americans would upon hearing that Barak Obama OR Hillary Clinton had won the presidency literally choke and stroke and scream like little girly men.

I'd love to see what would happen to the poor things if a black married lesbian Wiccan Democrat became president?
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Why not, we already have a chimp!
It's only a problem for people who decide not to vote for either of these candidates because they don't think a woman or black can be elected. A classic case of circular reasoning.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. I was just thinking of writing an essay on this Raptor
Thanks for saving me the time lol. IMO, and sorry for the frankness of this statement, if Hilary or Obama are elected President within 12 years I think we'd better hope they have a good VP. There are too many RW yahoos that simply won't stand for a woman or black President and I think one of said yahoos would probably try to do something about it. Especially as polarized as the country is right now.
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. the pundit did address this issue too, using the term, 'take a shot at him
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Oh please
you don't think there are yahoos determined to get EVERY president? I have no doubt in my mind there's a serious attempt on Bush every week (possibly every day).
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. there are probably 5,000 at any given time
who'd talk about shooting the president, people do it all the time for sure. It's just something we have to think about anyway, Lincoln, McKinley, JFK, etc.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't know
Edited on Mon Oct-23-06 12:34 PM by bryant69
I don't support either Obama or Clinton for the Presidency. That's not to say I wouldn't support a black or a woman (or a hispanic, asian, jewish, or homosexual) for Presidency.

I know though that if we reject Clinton or Obama we will hear about it from our republican friends- because as good Liberals we have a duty to support black people no matter what they do.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hey, America has embraced a lying pos white house squatter that
the MSM has called Mr.President for over six years.

Please 'splain to me why they are ready for that flotsam, and what difference it would make it was a woman or a person of color?

The office should be decided at least in part by demonstrated competency, statesmenship, leadership with maybe a glimmer of intelligence shown during campaign debates. The current coup of squatters had none of this when they were awarded the keys to the white house by the supreme court.
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. It's our job to pursuade them.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. I don't know. I've actually thought the same thing for a while.
The people I talk to don't have a problem with either one, but they're like me, so their opinion doesn't count in this judgement. I know there are lots of people here in Ga alone who wouldobject to BOTH!
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longship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
8. Yes!!
I cannot imagine who that might be at this time.

My feeling is that there are many qualified candidates who could jump into the fray before 2008 gets into high gear in Winter 2008. My hopes are that we'll see a diverse lot. I'd like to see a black woman run, for instance Tubbs-Jones.

And no, I would not support either Obama or Clinton. They are both political neophytes who seem to desire power more than doing the right thing. I'd rather see a white male run again if a black candidate means Obama and a woman means Clinton. I want to see a candidate who I know to be capable, not someone with rock star status.
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Bok_Tukalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. What is the Vulcan proverb?
"Only Nixon could go to China."


The nation is probably ready for it but I believe the first black or female (or both) Executive will be a Republican.
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. They've fantasized about condi & colin for years,
but I doubt either could pull it off.
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jannyk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
11. Ready or not, here they come! n/t
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
12. not only no, but hell no.
i guaran-dam-tee you there are DUers that wouldn't vote for a black or a woman, so i don't why anybody thinks the rest of the yahoos that make up most of the electorate would pull a lever for a black or woman.
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
13. The better question would be
is the black and/or female politician in question ready to exploit or kill when it serves the needs of the state? If they are, then send them in, because that's the only way to get elected to that position. Expansion of power is #1 on the to-do list.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
29. An even better question is
Are Americans prepared to RESTORE their democracy? It's in TATTERED SHREDS, the prognosis is grim and all this speculation is nothing more than mental masturbation.
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. True
It's too big to restore though. Taking out the genocide, theft, and enslavement for a second, the founding fathers had to go to another continent, thousands of miles away, to start whatever it is that democracy is. So unless we sail west(just, you know, no killing this time) and find a new world, which will eventually turn into the same old world since it's built on the same foundations, we're screwed.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
16. As Robert Kennedy once said, "If not here? where? if not now? when"
I think it's long overdue.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I agree except
I feel like we're being pressured to elect an icon instead of the best person. I just wouldn't attempt it until we're sure we've got the republican party beaten to a bloody pulp first.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #18
30. well, despite what we may think of Hillary Clinton many people believe
she is uniquely qualified to be president. A US Senator for 8 years (by 2008) and First Lady of the USA for 8-years she saw the presidency and participated in a presidency up close.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. And some people don't want a President
that still has not condemned this illegal war.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. I'm not condoning her I'm just saying that she is qualified to be president
and probably alot more than many people who will run. This is a thread about whether women and black's can be elected president not about who you favor as president.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. Shit compared to Bush
my 95 year old grandmother is qualified to be President. IRENE FOR PRESIDENT. I trust her values more than Hilary AND I can kick back and have a beer with her B-)
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
17. Nancy Pelosi will make a fine president after the impeachments.
Well, one can hope that if the Dems make a really big sweep they will grow spines.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
19. Boxer would be a way better female candidate than Hillary
and she's also Jewish.

Feingold, who'd also be the first Jew, would be a better candidate than either of them.

Clark, who's part ethnically Jewish (still a first as far as I know), would be the best candidate of all, and also would be the second Catholic.
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boolean Donating Member (992 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
20. Not as long as the freepers are around
Anything not white, male, and heterosexual scares the shit out of them.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
21. America is ready for someone who knows what the hell is going on
and can take care of the mess left by Bush.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
22. Cite to the freepers the statistics on women cheating on their
husbands versus men cheating on their wives. Since the freepers find this to be a major catastrophe, we should elect women, since women, especially middle-aged ones, are less likely to cheat on their spouses.

The morans think it is so important a matter that it should give them pause to consider whether a female president wouldn't be better. Safer. Less likely to wag the dog and take her eye off terra.
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951-Riverside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
23. We'll have a hispanic or white female president before a black president
Edited on Mon Oct-23-06 01:00 PM by 951-Riverside
Its just the way America is, sadly
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
24. I'm thinking so. I know I would like to see both, its long overdue
I think Nancy ascending to the Presidency would be a step in the right direction. She is in line for the Presidency after the vp isn't she. big time deadeye dick and w are headed for the impeachment hearings and I don't see how either can escape the many charges levied on them.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
25. Absolutely not
We're ready for a black and female president:

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cobalt1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
26. Not even close.
I really hope Barak or Hillary are not the Democratic nominee in '08. Not because they'd be bad or that I wouldn't support them, it's just they'd be unelectable in today's America. 2008 is too important to be giving up millions of votes (and I believe it would be millions).

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phylny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
27. I don't really know.
Last night I set the DVR to record Barak Obama's MTP appearance on rerun, and my husband asked why I was doing it. I explained that I wanted to see him and what he said, and explained a little history about him, including the fact that he's an African American and may run for President in 2008. We had a discussion then about certain family members on his side who would more likely vote for Osama Bin Laden over any African American or Woman candidate. There are some very racist people around.

The only thing I wonder is if the prospect of an African American candidate could mobilize AA voters to register and vote en masse. However, as AA voters are of course distinct people, there is no guarantee, nor should there be, that they would vote for Obama over any other candidate.
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jaysunb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
28. No
Edited on Mon Oct-23-06 01:16 PM by jaysunb
:evilfrown:
Only white males have vision and leadership qualities.
:sarcasm:
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
32. Is America ever really ready for progression? Is any country?
A lot of people thought America wasn't ready to end slavery or give women the right to vote but it still happened and we are stronger because of it. Progression isn't something that happens by invitation so the question isn't whether America is ready for a black or female president, the question is how can we finally get a black or female president?
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noonwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
34. Of course we are
It's just the neandrathals amongst us who think women are for clubbing and dragging around by the feet or hair.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
36. This is the country where wedge issues win races.
Sadly I would have to say no, not in todays political atmosphere. In a kinder gentler peaceful era I think the chances of such a candidates success would be much greater. On the other hand I support any candidates right to run for the nomination, and would fight to get them elected.
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BoneDaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
37. Unfortunately
I would say no. If the dems can't elect a white man to the post in still racist America, there is little hope of a female or black candidate making it.

Sad truth.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
38. yep, but he or she will have to be a republican....


...for the first woman or african american president.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. Exactly
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
40. America is, many Americans aren't.
Prejudice is as American as apple pie and stereotypes are easier to believe before there is proof otherwise in everyone's face.
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etherealtruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #40
53. Sadly, I think you are correct. n/t
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
41. Ready? Yes. Willing to vote for? Nope. eom
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
42. Obama and Hillary are NOT popular or liberal enough.
That's why the rethugs WANT them to run. They want someone to run who they think they can beat. Why do you think the media is hyping both of em? Because the media doesn't want the dems to win either!

Now, put Oprah in that slot and the thugs would be going crazy because she would win. Too bad that Oprah isn't interested.

Find a WILDLY POPULAR TRUE LIBERAL candidate-and their sex or race will not be an issue.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
43. Only if it is Condi or someone like her
the only way Republican sexists would vote for a woman is if she acts like a man, and "shuts up" about women's issues.

And the only way Republican racists would vote for a non-white is if they act like a white, and "shut up" about minority issues.


Condi meets both qualifications. Basically, since she acts just like them, they see her as "the exception" to their biases against women and/or minorities
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lies and propaganda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
44. I never get what people mean when they say "Ready."
I had a dude just recently tell me he wants Codi, :puke:, and that he doesnt think it will happen cause we arent 'ready.'

Would people revolt? Burn buildings down? Complete anarchy?

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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. "ready to elect" n/t
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lies and propaganda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #47
54. i understand that.
What the hell do they mean when they say America isnt ready? Was does ready entail?
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Dob Bole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
46. Ready or not.... here come black and female congressional leaders...
Edited on Mon Oct-23-06 02:57 PM by Dob Bole
Because after Nov. 7, Black congressmen will hold very important committee positions in Congress, and Nancy Pelosi will be Speaker of the House...the most powerful person in Washington, akin to a Prime Minister.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
48. As much as I would like to say yes, this country is not
ready for a Black, woman or a person of Jewish persuasion to be President. We still have a long way to go, as far as race/gender relationships.
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Zavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
49. Woman? Maybe. Black? I seriously doubt it.
Repugs would turn out in droves to vote against blacks because of Affirmative Action, and God help the black candidate with a long list of Muslim donors.

A female president - possible, but not Hillary.

I'd support a qualified black or female candidate like a shot if I liked that candidate better than all others running, but to the best of my knowledge there is no such qualified person likely to run in 2008.
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bobbie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
50. If they're corrupt enough, and an insider war mongerer
That's all that matters to the regime I'd think. Hell, Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell, Condi Rice, they're a-ok 'cause they're lying disgusting sacks of shit.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
51. Y'all be so FUCKING CLUELESS!!
Pardon me for shouting but my sister and cousin were here for a visit last week. During that lovely time with two physicians whom I love and adore, I got a face full of HOW OUT OF TOUCH Amis are. This thread is throwing the frustration I felt during our familial "sleepover" back in my face.

Are YOU ready to be DETAINED if you disagree with your gub'mint?

Are YOU ready to be DENIED permission to travel beyond your shores?

Are YOU ready to be IMPOVERISHED?

Are YOU ready to see YOUR kids shipped off nto a meat grinder for the SOLE PURPOSE of enriching SLIMEBUCKETS??

Are YOU ready to see your pensions VAPORIZE?

Are YOU ready to EAT SHIT AND DIE???





EVEN IF YOU MANAGE to find a BIG WHITE DICK to confront what has ALREADY gone down, do you think the Amurikan Bevolkerung have the good sense to rally behind it??? :banghead:



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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-23-06 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
52. As long as the CANDIDATE is ready, the nation can just deal with it. nt
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