Waterboarding KILLS victim. He is not allowed to die. He is brought back.

[IndyOp]

I am copying posts from another thread below because I am in shock that I did not understand this before. This sounds right to me. Can anyone post links that confirm this?

From the posts here and here:

The process of water boarding actually DOES kill the victim...but he is not allowed to die. He is killed and brought back again and again. This horrid practice is not being given the serious appreciation it deserves. The horrors from hell who do this nasty practice are guilty of far worse than they are being held responsible for.

The person I talked to told me that the victims were often, perhaps usually, unconscious when the water stopped. Extraordinary measures to get the victim's lungs cleared enough to get his motor started again included a tube inserted to suck out water and mucous and often beating on him to aid in the clearing.

When I expressed shock and disbelief, his answer was to the tone of, "if the subject was reasonably sure he was meant to survive the ordeal, it would transform the whole thing into a horrible but survivable experience.

I am afraid to out this person so I have no proof at all that circumstances are as advertised but, when I spent some time thinking about it, it made sense.

My fondest hope is that we take at least one chamber so that we can subpoena some of the torturers and shed some light on this horrid brand of human cruelty.

The only torture they can use that produces this awful motivator is water boarding, as anything else would almost certainly kill the victim permanently.

I KILL YOU.
THEN I BRING YOU BACK.
SO I CAN KILL YOU AGAIN.
THEN I BRING YOU BACK.
SO I CAN KILL YOU AGAIN.
THEN I BRING YOU BACK.
SO I CAN KILL YOU AGAIN.
THEN I BRING YOU BACK.
SO I CAN KILL YOU AGAIN.

JOSEF MENGELE WOULD BE SO PROUD!

[Daphne08]

1. The stuff of Nightmares. n/t

[Joanne98]

2. We need a list of the names of the doctors who are helping do this.

So we can take them apart at the seams.

[soothsayer]

3. No, not true. There are videos of waterboarding out there, and

what they do is lay you down with your head lower than your chest, then force a balled up wet rag over your nose and mouth so it's hard to breathe and you keep breathing in water vapor, and they keep pouring more water on the rag and as you get panicky they pour more on it and on you so now you feel like you are drowning, so your chest gets real tight and your heart races and you get all panicked and are struggling, then they let you gasp a lungful of air and start it all over again.

We actually have reflexes that prevent water entering the lungs very easily. Wikipedia puts it like this

The reaction to water inhalation

If water enters the airways of a conscious victim the victim will try to cough up the water or swallow it thus inhaling more water involuntarily. Upon water entering the airways, both conscious and unconscious victims experience laryngospasm, that is the Larynx or the vocal cords in the throat constrict and seal the air tube. This prevents water from entering the lungs. Due to this laryngospasm, water enters the stomach in the initial phase of drowning and very little water enters the lungs. Unfortunately, this can prevent air from entering the lungs, too. In most victims, the laryngospasm relaxes some time after unconsciousness and water can enter the lungs causing a wet drowning. However, about 10-15% of victims maintain this seal until cardiac arrest, this is called dry drowning as no water enters the lungs. In forensic pathology water in the lungs indicates that the victim was still alive at the point of submersion; the absence of water in the lungs may be either a dry drowning or indicates a death before submersion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drowning

On edit, here's wikipedia's description of waterboarding;
The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt. According to the sources, CIA officers who subjected themselves to the water boarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in. They said al Qaeda's toughest prisoner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last over two minutes before begging to confess.<3>

snip

BUT...looky, it can have long lasting effects:

The physical effects of poorly executed waterboarding can be extreme pain and damage to the lungs, brain damage caused by oxygen deprivation and sometimes broken bones because of the restraints applied to the struggling victim. The psychological effects can be longlasting.

Dr. Allen Keller, the director of the Bellevue/N.Y.U. Program for Survivors of Torture, has treated "a number of people" who had been subjected to forms of near-asphyxiation, including waterboarding. An interview for The New Yorker states:

argued that it was indeed torture. Some victims were still traumatized years later, he said. One patient couldn't take showers, and panicked when it rained. "The fear of being killed is a terrifying experience," he said.<8><9>

much more here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

[elehhhhna]

8. Figures the "dry drunk" would endorse "dry drowning"

[ShortnFiery]

15. What makes you think that the newly emplaced GENIUSES

who Porter Goss emplaced in the CIA (instead of the scores of the career officers and skilled operatives who resigned during his short tenure), know how to properly (not fill their victims lungs with water) waterboard these prisoners?

When Porter Goss and his political crones took over the CIA from Tenet, we LOST the creme of the crop of both analytical and operations personnel.

The people who get ahead in BushWorld within the Intelligence fields are not necessarily COMPETENT, but loyal to Dear Leader. :(

On Edit: You need SKILLED agents who know how far to push this technique. When I was doing a 90 meter equipment swim in the Army, I became so weakened trying to make those last three meters that I took a complete breath underwater. I almost died because I was too proud and stupid. In the same vein, if you don't have skilled operatives performing such procedures, the victim's *reflexes* can easily become fatigued and you end up with a DEAD prisoner. :(

[johnaries]

19. There's the inherent problem with torture as interrogation:

According to the sources, CIA officers who subjected themselves to the water boarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in. They said al Qaeda's toughest prisoner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last over two minutes before begging to confess

Ignoring the ethical questions, it is simply a poor interrogation technique. The victim will tell the interrogators whatever it is he/she thinks they want to hear. Regardless of whether it is true or not.

Information gained through torture is totally and completely unreliable and cannot be trusted.

edit: odd, it was displaying my sig line as my post and not displaying my post. :shrug:
edit #2: Oops! I put a ' instead of a " in my div class html.

[RebelOne]

23. Here's a video of a waterboarding experiment.

http://www.current.tv/pods/controversy/PD04399

[Benhurst]

25. I think a really manly man could last longer.

The CIA should test waterboarding on The Leader. I'll bet he couldn't be broken.

[Telly Savalas]

4. It's not really that big a deal though.

33 Democrats in the House voted for this practice, and we're supposed to support them no matter what. Do you really thing a couple of weeks before an election is time to engage in hand-wringing over irrelevancies like decency and human rights? Step in line and support the party machinery.

[Poll_Blind]

6. And a certain poster may just stop by and start asking you:

"What Democratic candidate do you want to see lose this next election?"

Think carefully about your answer because they are in a position to shorten, dramatically, your stay at Democratic Underground if you answer incorrectly.

PB

[elehhhhna]

10. huh?

[mdmc]

7. falling in line

:kick::dems:

[pnwmom]

12. The only way we're going to stop this practice is if we take the

House or Senate.

That's why all of us should vote for the Democrat in every Federal race.

None of them specifically voted for this practice, as you know, although I cannot defend the bill that they did vote for either.

[lostnotforgotten]

16. Just The Reason My Litmus Test Includes Torture and War Mongering

Part loyalty be damned!

PS: the reason I will never vote for Hillary.

[lonestarnot]

26. Water mongering.

[Poll_Blind]

5. At first I really disagreed with this, thought it was bullsh*t. Then...

...I started to think about it. I watched the video that had been posted of the reporter who had himself waterboarded. When he was "done", there was a lot of mucous he was pulling off his nose/mouth. I remember that surprised me- I didn't expect that excessive mucous would be produced. Then I read the descriptions the person from your post gave again. And thought about it some more.

  It's sick beyond sick but, yes, I think that some waterboarding probably does wind up "killing" or severely incapacitating the subject and I imagine that it's probably "easy" (with medical staff on hand) to recussitate them.

  I think after having this done to you a few times in a row the body might go into shock or cause cardiac arrest. I'm certainly no doctor but I recall reading that at certain levels of stress the heart really begins to freak out pretty badly. I could be wrong.

  Still, an average healthy man could probably have this happen to them, what, once a day? Once a week? At a certain point, though, seriously, you could probably induce a panic attack, tachicardia and possibly even fibriliation just from beginning the proceedure on someone if they've had this done to them enough times. I've known some people with really, really severe panic disorders and it can put them in a level of shock which might border on the shock reaction associated with blood loss, say, from beig stabbed.

  This is really grisly. Remember, the Administration classifies it as torture ONLY if the organs fail. Gonzales (sp?), the bastard, made that clear. So if there's someone to prevent full-blown organ failure, it ain't torture, then?

  And to do something like that to another human being abosolutely, 100% qualifies for being described as a Nazi/Mengele-style practice. While Nazis did some pretty horrific things to Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, etc. during WW II, their main goal was to use them as slave labor until they were wasted husks of human beings. Then they killed them. They didn't try, as a general rule, to bring them back so as to continue the torture again. This is not the rule though, there were experiments on children which I recall reading about which were beyond sick. Also high-altitude (and other) experiments where Nazi prisoners would lose consciousness, during which Nazi "doctors" might revive the subjects afterward only to begin the horror again.

  This is really sicking me out, I don't want to deal with all the things that are coming back to me on this grisly topic.

  But on review, I could see this happening with some frequency. If the U.S. interrogators wanted to bring the level of torture to this die/revive level, they certainly could do it. And I don't see why they would not.

There are birds outside my window, and they're singing. It's a beautiful day. It disturbs me that outside my window, it's a beautiful day but 1000 miles, or 10 miles, or a mile away there could be someone undergoing this sort of hell right at this moment.

PB

[elehhhhna]

9. Next up : the "pulpification of extremities", also now a preferred BA

technique.

We need to declare a WAR ON TORTURE.

[Poll_Blind]

11. How do you conduct a war on torture when over 25% of your army's....

..."generals" support it?

PB

[ShortnFiery]

17. This is not reflective of the Professional Army but the Generals ...

Herr Rumsfeld has installed when he first darkened the doors of The Pentagon. :thumbsdown:

I submit that the vast majority of Company and Field Grade Officers (LT-LTC) are disgusted with their present leadership. Further, the vast majority of Retired General Officers deplore what Rumsfeld has done to the military and all the a** kissing Generals who follow the man, no matter how horrific and immoral his methods have become. :grr:

[rman]

30. With 75% opposing it,

seems like a sure win.

[pnwmom]

14. And imagine what this does to the 1 in 5 or so with asthma or

highly reactive airways.

[BlueEyedSon]

22. Probably causes permanent brain and/or other organ damage.

[lostnotforgotten]

13. And Just Think, Any Of Us Could Be The Next Victim

eom

[goforit]

29. So true. Empathy is the only cure for inhumane acts.

[yodermon]

18. Mock Executions and therefore a War Crime, full stop. n/t

[troubleinwinter]

21. Yes.

[Jo March]

20. Of course the victims are not allowed to die.

* is pro-life, dontcha know? :eyes:

[lonestarnot]

27. Hey arnheim!

:hug: How's it shak'n baby? We need a reunion! Need to get over to the MASS forum and catch PVL after the election. Busy busy busy. Guess I should have pmd sorry mods.

[malaise]

24. Torture is torture

Fugg Bushco.

[SOS]

28. Background piece on US use of this practice

After WW 2 the US sentenced Japanese officer Yukio Asano to 15 years hard labor for torturing a US civilian with waterboarding.
By the 1960s, the US use of waterboarding was "fairly common".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/04/AR2006100402005.html

[Judi Lynn]

31. Unbelievable. This article is very helpful. Had no idea this practise

has been used this freely. Damned tragic.

UPI photo from the Washington Post article:



Soldiers in Vietnam use the waterboarding technique on an uncooperative enemy suspect
near Da Nang in 1968 to try to obtain information from him.

Photo Credit: United Press International Photo