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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 03:15 PM
Original message
"AMERICA IS NO LONGER FREE"
Edited on Wed Oct-18-06 03:30 PM by Stephanie






AMERICA IS NO LONGER FREE
by Paul Lehto, Attorney at Law


Habeas corpus -- it's your most fundamental legal right, your right to go to a court and get an order requiring the government to prove that it is holding you in prison with proper legal authority to do so. Without that right, one necessarily lives in a dictatorship. President Bush today on October 17, 2006 signed a bill repealing that law, meaning that the administration need not comply or show compliance with law any more with regard to who goes to prison or Gitmo.

While it supposedly applies just to terrorism cases, that doesn't prevent it from ending the rule of law in the United States for our newly all-powerful Executive. This is true not just because terrorism is construed so broadly in the prohibition of "material support" for terrorism (which by the way has already been held to include a lawyer's press release on behalf of a terrorist client) but because the administration NEED NOT PROVE IT'S REALLY TERRORISM because they don't need to answer to any court in the land at any time.

Even "Justice" Scalia wrote in the Hamdan case that "the very core of liberty secured by our Anglo-Saxon system of separated powers has been freedom from indefinite imprisonment at the will of the Executive." That very core of liberty died on October 17, 2006 with the signing of the Military Commissions Act of 2006 and its elimination of habeas corpus.

Oh yeah, it also legalized torture wholesale. While misleadingly purporting to prohibit a few forms, upon full analysis it prohibits none. But who's going to know since your relatives won't be able to find out where you are anyway, right? Habeas corpus ("produce the body") was not supposed to mean habeas corpses. Habeas corpus started as soon as human beings had the yearning to breathe free of the abuses of unchecked power of a king, aristocrat or lord, starting around the year 1215. We now have a pre-1215 mentality, all because of fear of some primitive and violent guys living in caves somewhere. Many of us are not intimidated.

Yet the same day as the signing of this Military Commissions Act of 2006, a lawyer following her ethical duty to represent her client and ill with breast cancer was sentenced to 2 and a half years in prison for the simple act of issuing a press release on behalf of a terrorist client in prison, which was judged "materially aiding" terrorism. (Such press releases for unpopular clients are hardly ever printed verbatim in any respect by newspapers, yet the allegation was that there could be a coded communication in the press release and there was a no-communication order in effect.) While this terrorist is a genuine terrorist, there's nothing in the law that distinguishes between representing serious terrorists and representing "innocent terrorists" (if there is such a thing) or minor ones, but in any case, remember, they don't need to comply with habeas and show that you are guilty anyway! At most, they just think to themselves "this guy's a terrorist" and you disappear into the torture chamber with no right to be heard from, even indirectly through your lawyer, which you have no enforceable right to anyway.

Even public opinion will likely not catch up with this because people will just disappear and who knows, maybe the missing person just went off on a lark or a fugue to start a new life, right?

Consequently, on October 17, 2006 freedom died in the United States of America. We now live in a dictatorship. We live in a dictatorship even if you think George W. Bush will be a wise and beneficent king or dictator. It is defined as the possession of absolute power as opposed to checks and balances.

In the Keith Olbermann commentary at the first youtube link below; I agree with Professor Turley (Constitutional Law) that people "really have no idea how significant this is." Turley says we now have an "absolute ruler" which is really just another way of saying dictatorship. He's not kidding. I'm not kidding.

I'll be releasing an extended (and devastating, early readers say) critical piece on this within 48 hours, but in the meantime and after that please consider the importance of this issue is at a WHOLE OTHER LEVEL. It's not an "issue" that we form polite activist groups to respond to.

The Executive Branch now has full discretion to imprison anybody they want to without charge or trial or bail and there will be nothing anybody can do except beg the King. I.e. there's no rule of law applicable to the administration. EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN LAW was essentially repealed, because the administration need not prove to anybody that it has complied with the law by indefinitely detaining you, your relative or anyone else.

Keith Olbermann's commentary, with Professor Jonathan Turley
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igycXBseoAg

The only thing I don't agree with Turley on is this: There is not a giant Yawn, there are a lot of people shocked, many crying, millions disturbed, millions more waking up. It's always hard to be among the first to know and to wait for the rest of the country to catch up, but somebody has to be in that position. Let's not, because we are among the first millions to wake up, send out the message that getting the American dream back is relatively hopeless based on the Yawn seemingly heard today. After all, there is no media echo besides Olbermann to get the word out and reinforce it. But there will be. I also disagree with Turley's approach, even as he makes strongly worded comments that are nevertheless scholarly and restrained in tone and volume, because it's inappropriate and (if you believe in Constitutional rights) not unlike talking in a similar dispassionate tone when a masked man walks into your local elementary school with automatic weapons drawn.

For a more appropriate tone, here's another two minute video below that was filmed right before this bill was signed but it nevertheless applies to this situation, and gives advice on what to do when "they come for your freedom." Paul Revere said "the Redcoats are coming". Today, "the Redcoats already came."

These situation of legalizing torture and eliminating habeas corpus is WAY WAY WAY "out there" in terms of extreme. Bush and his administration are incredibly isolated now, seeking to legalize the very things we prosecuted ourselves in WWII like waterboarding. If I hear anyone even IMPLY that we live in a free country, the correction will be swift. WE DO NOT LIVE IN A FREE COUNTRY ANY MORE. PERIOD.

The hopeful note is this: We can recognize how incredibly isolated both in the world and in our own country this Administration is, and we can turn away, and withdraw any remaining support and respect. But, if we react just in fear, whether fear of Gitmo or fear of torture or fear of terrorists, the dark curtain of dictatorship will descend further and their power will consolidate. In the end, Americans will not be denied freedom in a struggle for freedom on their own soil.

"Freedom is Under Attack" -- Rollins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6waWS0Y3Ubc (f-bomb warning, but appropriate IMHO in this context)

Paul Lehto
Attorney at Law
lehtolawyer@gmail.com
Permission granted to distribute in full with attribution.




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Serial Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Everybody MUST see this!

and we all must stand up and BE HEARD so future generations can't ask 'where were the people when this government took away our rights?'


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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. like when what did the German people do to stop Hitler or any other
dictatorship.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. Good, your signature line "never back down" suggests you're working...

The German people likely thought, in large part, that those nasty laws didn't apply to THEM. This is my favorite (and only) objection I've heard to the information and logic of the piece above, that it only applies to noncitizens, as if that makes prison without charge or trial and torture all OK, particularly when that applies to people I know, like my wife for example. Even if that were correct, it's not a difference that makes a difference morally or in terms of human rights. It implies that Germany's holocaust against Jews and a few other small minorities is morally less reprehensible than the EQUAL PROTECTION OF ALL LAWS TO ALL GROUPS. That's an absurd position.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. I agree that events are now an order of magnitude more important
this is not a "threat" condition this is a "reality condition"

Cut and paste from another of my replies below, but worth repeating:

The German people likely thought, in large part, that those nasty laws didn't apply to THEM. This is my favorite (and only) objection I've heard to the information and logic of the piece above, that it only applies to noncitizens, as if that makes prison without charge or trial and torture all OK, particularly when that applies to people I know, like my wife for example. Even if that were correct, it's not a difference that makes a difference morally or in terms of human rights. It implies that Germany's holocaust against Jews and a few other small minorities is morally less reprehensible than the EQUAL PROTECTION OF ALL LAWS TO ALL GROUPS. That's an absurd position.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
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ourbluenation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. Great piece and I'm recommending it but sadly, nobody out there
gives a shit. snaps for us for caring, but yeah, nobody else cares.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I think it may be that some people aren't SURE of what just happened.
Certainly many would never suspect that such a thing could happen in the U.S., so why not talk about it?

Inform folks, ask a neighbor or family member what they think of this, and if need be give them the details.

K&R.
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grizmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. agreed, the next job is to take responsibility for educating
those who don't really realize what the bush junta has done.

... next that is AFTER we win this damn election.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. yes, sure, but consider also the likelihood of election cheating
has increased enormously based on how badly this power is wanted -- willing to reverse american history so probably willing to make sure the election comes out in a "just" way, don'tcha think?
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. gee, I wrote this piece and I've not talked to anybody who DOESN'T care
even the lady driving the motel shuttle bus.

C'mon, without a functioning media, some people may have some doubts about whether the alarm is fully justified, partially justified or whatever. But it's the job of citizens to talk to each other, dialogue, persuade, and so forth, like the business of democracy is designed to do. Why in the world would we think that we'd have, in effect, NO WORK of this persuasive kind to do?
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. you wrote it?
thank you!
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. yes, I guess my real name is "out" a bit here on DU
though contrary to some folks outside this thread, I still think the appropriate rule is to allow the name owner to decide when they want to disclose it. All's fine here and thanks for posting this!
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
43. what would it take
to reverse this Act?

How do we go about that?? What would be a reasonable plan?
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #43
51. step one: do not talk "UP" to politicians and media, talk ACROSS
to your fellow citizens. Start by spreading the word, this word and others, ACROSS.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #51
100. good point
however when I talk "across" which I do fairly often, I'd like to have a picture of how to go about reversing this insidious Act. In other words, a plan for overturning it. Right now, I think people need practical solutions. When you just inform them of bad news without that, they tend to feel even more depressed and powerless. I realize that the first step is taking back Congress, but after that...what is a reasonable expectation for reversal of this? Is it doable? I try to be a translator, if you will, of these complicated matters into terms that are easier to grasp for others (whether they are too limited or just too distracted or overwhelmed--it really doesn't matter to me why they are uninformed). I like to be a purveyor of verbal information and practice distilling the essence into sound bites. But to do this you need to see the big picture, the next step.
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ourbluenation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #10
84. you are right - when you explain it they care, but getting them to listen
is the challenge with so many distractions, you know, like dancing with the stars. It's frustrating.
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resist_vote on paper Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-20-06 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
126. Congratulation! You did a good job!
As a german, I always asked myself, how Hitler could come that far.

I never expected to see it happen again, and I never expected it to happen in the US.

I really hope, that you will find the strength to work on. America needs people like you! And I agree: the only way is explaining the situation to every single person you meet.

I am sure, that democracy will succeed, the faster the better.
The amount of victims can only grow bigger, if you wait any longer...
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Fiendish Thingy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. k&r! n/t
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Theres-a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
7. K + R
Go Hank! The Rollins video is priceless.
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bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. its not the "fear of some primitive and violent guys..."
its the desires and ambitions of some primative and violent men in our government.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
13. Kick.(nt)
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
14. I'm putting these up around town
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
16. Why is there not more discussion on this?
If even DUers seem to fail to grasp the gravity of what happened yesterday, what hope is there that those who are not close followers of politics will? I know one thing for sure -- I have not felt this ill since the day that Kerry conceded in 2004. Something is very wrong in this country. If ever there was a time for civil disobedience, it is now. We have to do a whole hell of a lot more than just bitch and moan online. We cannot continue to live like this. I shall not lie -- I'm scared to death. Scared to death of my government! In America no less. The only way we can tackle this issue is if we unite. There is no other course.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. there are numerous threads on this subject the last few days with dupes
would you like me to send you some? Alternatively, please PM people and send them to this discussion/essay. Thanks!
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. I've seen numerous threads, yes...
However, there is no underlying sense of urgency or a mobilization, more importantly, to act.
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BelgianMadCow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. I have a strong sense of urgency, but apparently it doesn't come across
Edited on Wed Oct-18-06 06:21 PM by BelgianMadCow
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

it can hurt when you poor it all out and the thread drops like a stone - poor me.

But I see so very few action threads. Poor us.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
48. Hello, it seems there are people wanting to ACT
Edited on Wed Oct-18-06 08:46 PM by Land Shark
:hi: here I am, for one :hi:
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maxcass Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #48
88. So what do we do to rise to action?
Seriously, what action should be taken? Because - sign me up for that
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #88
93. You're signed up; first step, make a little list of other people to signup
will get back to you this weekend with action ideas for discussion.
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swimboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #93
109. I want to know what to do.
I'm very upset but I don't know what to do to address this.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #109
115. Kick. n/t
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-20-06 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #109
119. send me a PM if you want to be on a list for ideas
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #16
59. i posted the DINO's who voted for it
3 responses
:boring:
DUers understand, many or most, and the rest of America deserves what's coming. We don't. We need to help each other prepare and thrive should the house of cards catch a draft.
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
18. Good stuff, is Rollins fired up, or what? KnR
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Joe for Clark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
19. K & R
Joe
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
20. send this to your friends and email lists. Paul gives his permission.
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
22. K&R! Is it fascism yet? Why yes it is...
I was listening to a radio interview with a law professor last night on the way home from work--it may been Prof Turley. They were talking about how the bill allows defining whether or not specific acts are torture.

I thought to myself I can't believe we are even having this discussion. What next? Will there be this big national debate over which races it's OK to enslave?

Then members of the GOP have the gall to suggest that anyone who opposes the destruction of American democracy is "pampering terrorists".

I can't wait for my next turn at jury duty; I will ask the judge how s/he expects *me* to be fair, when the country no longer has a legitimate constitutional government.
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galloglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
24. The US of A Reichstag has been torched !!
Please remember that the torch is in the hands of the GOP!!
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
26. k'n'r!
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AtLiberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
27. k & r
!!!
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Pooka Fey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
28. K&R
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
30. Heartbreaking.
K&R

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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
31. We will be seeing more of this.....
Yet the same day as the signing of this Military Commissions Act of 2006, a lawyer following her ethical duty to represent her client and ill with breast cancer was sentenced to 2 and a half years in prison for the simple act of issuing a press release on behalf of a terrorist client in prison, which was judged "materially aiding" terrorism. (Such press releases for unpopular clients are hardly ever printed verbatim in any respect by newspapers, yet the allegation was that there could be a coded communication in the press release and there was a no-communication order in effect.) While this terrorist is a genuine terrorist, there's nothing in the law that distinguishes between representing serious terrorists and representing "innocent terrorists" (if there is such a thing) or minor ones, but in any case, remember, they don't need to comply with habeas and show that you are guilty anyway! At most, they just think to themselves "this guy's a terrorist" and you disappear into the torture chamber with no right to be heard from, even indirectly through your lawyer, which you have no enforceable right to anyway.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
32. Well if you're not doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to
worry about :sarcasm: right FReeptards? :mad: :banghead: :grr: :argh: :nuke:

RECOMMENDED!
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wrate Donating Member (376 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Sure, as long as you and * agree on what is right and what is wrong.
Otherwise, you better toe the line to whatever the Chimperor wants or you're screwed.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. we're not screwed if we all hang together

but, as they say, it's possible to hang separately.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #34
102. Don't tell me, tell the bushbots, those delusional fools who think their
PRESIDENT won't disappear them. . :rofl:
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
33. Keep it comin', Land Shark.
K&R.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. ok, you know i may not be able to resist that request
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. You are our "Paul Revere"
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear
Mark Twain

I hope we can learn to master our fears and have the courage to fight for what is right

today, tomorrow and for the years to come.

Thanks for your wise words.



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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. you've given wisdom here yourself, I'm impressed
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
36. I am SO depressed that
my stomach hurts. :hurts:
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sproutster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Thats how I feel.
Right now I'm in semi-denial... I fill my head with fast gratification. On the drive home today after reading this article, I thought about it and started crying. We are now only free at the pleasure of the president. We are fucked. I will NEVER vote for anyone who yea'd this bill be it repub or dem. They sold us down the river, and I pray elections will change this. I honestly don't know what I will do if we lose. I am more scared then I ever was during the cold war - and I had serious nightmares - I would wake up with tears on my face after saying goodbye or trying to find my loved ones.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. I have been crying and
I am scared too. I am also scared about another Diebold-run election. I just feel like I'm losing hope. And you're right. This is nothing like the Cold War. If we do lose this next election, then I shudder to think. I seriously think about immigrating somewhere else, but of course they've already made that hard enough to do, unless a person has lots of money.

I really feel powerless. :(
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. But this understandable reaction, writ large, is totally self-defeating
There does have to be a shock process or a grief process, but one should, if at all possible, put on a brave face since fear is often not rational, and definitely not a good strategy FOR US. FEAR IS THE OTHER SIDE'S StrATEGY SO i QUESTION INDULGING PUBLIC FEAR, IF YOU CAN POSSIBLY AVOID IT.

WHAT WOULD A SENTINEL OF DEMOCRACY DO? Quiver at his/her guardpost?
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. You have a point.
If only we could all organize and stand up against this madness. What can we all do about this? There must be a way. It looks like it's really time for a Revolution.

Otherwise I don't know what to do exept try not to be so negative, which is difficult at this point.

They are using fear to control us!
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. well you can be part of my non-organization, er, list
I'll certainly give out action items from time to time. Just PM me with email addy and whatever info you want to part with. Send this post to 6 listservs. For example.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #53
57. Okay, will do! n/t
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #57
68. cool, everyone else join too! Here's the link for today's Olbermann!!!
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #36
118. More from the Rove Playbook - Kicked & Recommended
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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
37. K&R/nt
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
41. Sad, But True.
n/t
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
45. Freedom?! WTF is Free about it!!? nt
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
47. Recommended!
What do they hate us for now, Dimson? Not for our freedoms.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. Touche' mvd, touche'
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
49. Bush rigging elections, how far off from dictatorship is this??
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #49
56. this is dictatorship regardless of rigging elections

and it is of no moral relevance that the absolute power may, or may not, be focused on a minority of people of any particular class, background or citizenship status.
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In Truth We Trust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
54. Hand Counted Paper Ballots NOW! ...or Fascism Forever.
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greatauntoftriplets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
55. A must read...
K&R
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
58. Kick & ARRRRRHED!
Edited on Wed Oct-18-06 09:53 PM by btmlndfrmr
While this is a dark day we'll get through it. It may take some time. It may not. We have to roll with it. Once/if/when people understand habeas corpus is in the dumpster it may just be the topper on swinging independents and undecided voters.


If you haven't thought of it yet Paul ...we should get your information into the hands of some unions.

More people everyday understand the world around is different ...not really knowing what has changed.

We just need to get the word out.


A fine post indeed sir Landshark

Here's to ya.
:toast:


Edited: for Kudos to Stephanie!
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
60. you can be disappeared for making a tax error
Chertoff says!
For not paying your legally required tax, which is detrimental to America's economic health, you can be labelled a terrorist.
Then you can be disappeared.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
61. They Thought They Were Free...
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tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
62. Why are all the local papers saying this does not apply to US citizens????
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #62
65. because they just print the usual BS but olbermann answers this question
at 5 minutes and 30 seconds into his commentary of 10/18/06

historic, re beginning of the end of america
<http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/10/18/countdown-spec... >
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
63. R'd earlier.
Here's a :kick:


... :cry:
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jimshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
64. pResident dumbshit has been
given the keys to the very gates of hell with this law. Who here thinks for a minute that he isn't itching to go try it out. If you get to view the clip of * signing that awful bill, make sure you watch the look that washes over his face the second he finishes his signature. It's like at that very moment, he knew he was the dictator. Very telling and very depressing.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. are we ready to come together nationally in large numbers? I am..
here's the olbermann video from today <http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/10/18/countdown-spec... >
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #66
76. as always...
just waiting for marching orders...
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #66
82. it has to happen if they steal it again
we have to be prepared to walk
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tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. Of all people to give this much power
Why him?



That is the most monochromatic group of people I have ever seen.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #67
71. how do they get so much power when so weak in the polls?
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tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #71
89. They just take it. When you have no shame and no morals, it's easy.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
69. K&R to the top.
--IMM
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
70. KICK AND RANK! Bush has destroyed our Constitution!
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. Gawd! You just noticed? Wasn't the Patriot Act a big clue?
eom
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Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
72. One could easily
make the argument that America has never been free and it's history would point to this but that might also distract from how regressive these innumerable fascistic policies of the Cheney junta have been in the last 6 years. At present they are sort of just capping it off as they prepare for harder economic times, energy decline, and the inevitable social upheaval.

K&R
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BlueStorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
74. Ok, now I am officially scared...
What if, sometime down the road they start going after web boards such as DU? Like getting the names of those who are members and having them disappeared?

We definately have allowed Democracy to be killed by this insane, psychopathic bunch.

What's next? Slavery? I wouldn't doubt it.

Ok maybe I am being pessimistic but that's how I am feeling right now.

Blue
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #74
79. the only thing we have to fear is fear itself (truer words rarely spoken)
certainly apropos today on this

fear is the bush administration's virus. don't be afraid, if you can help it. Even if you can't help being afraid you may well be able to help typing it down and spreading the virus of fear to others.
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greblc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
75. Holly Sh*t...
As I fired up the youtube link and turned on my sound my Itunes was playing "imagine" by John Lennon.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #75
80. i've heard lots of people saying interesting positive things happening...
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
77. An interesting thread posted from FR here tonight........
they seem to be wising up to the great Republican Constitutional Heist. Maybe this will have a uniting effect.....uniting the country against the Uniter.

Great post...I have no doubts that we'll outlast these bastards because we have truth and the spirit of the Founding Fathers on our side.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
78. Late but just in time...#94...Rokken the House!!!!!!!!!!!111
Edited on Wed Oct-18-06 11:48 PM by autorank
This is more outstanding sentinel of democracy work from Land Shark.

Very well put, and pour it on. We attack rather than retreat on this one, never surrender.

Another way to say it is in song, "Hey baby , there ain't no easy way out." I Won't Back Down, Tom Petty
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
81. Always Use the "Real Name": The War Criminals Protection Act
Especially when talking to friends, family, and others.

This "act" (a war crime itself) was the response to the real finding in Hamdan.

The "Scalia Court" ruled that Geneva applies -- therefore there had been 3 years of war crimes.

The DC/Euphemedia Analstocracy couldn't handle that truth -- due to their consciousness of guilt.

Their "reaction" was part minimization, part misdirection, and in big part a power grab at the ability of any (formerly) American authority to punish the criminals. In essence -- The Coverup.

They sold our National Soul to further their ongoing criminal conspiracy.

They think they've gotten away with it.

Impeachment is our ONLY moral, patriotic option.

---
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
83. K&R
K&R

KO was Brilliant and FEARLESS tonight. And he knows HE CAN BE DISAPPEARED.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #83
86. No he can't. His absencw would be noticed. nt
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
85. The "Enabling Act" redux. And Bu*h placed two more fascists on
the SCOTUS. If they do not rule that this "law" is un-Constitutional, then it is time for us to bust out the torches and pitchforks.

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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
87. It is going to be fought against right. We are not going to accept this
Edited on Thu Oct-19-06 01:35 AM by midnight
as anything-Right? Please tell me this is legally arguable in a court of law by the ACLU. Please tell me that great legal minds have this bill ready to be challenged.
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tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #87
92. Oh yes. The ACLU took out a full page ad
From the ACLU website:
The following can be attributed to Anthony D. Romero, ACLU Executive Director:

"With his signature, President Bush enacts a law that is both unconstitutional and un-American. This president will be remembered as the one who undercut the hallmark of habeas in the name of the war on terror. Nothing separates America more from our enemies than our commitment to fairness and the rule of law, but the bill signed today is an historic break because it turns Guantnamo Bay and other U.S. facilities into legal no-man's-lands.

"The president can now - with the approval of Congress - indefinitely hold people without charge, take away protections against horrific abuse, put people on trial based on hearsay evidence, authorize trials that can sentence people to death based on testimony literally beaten out of witnesses, and slam shut the courthouse door for habeas petitions. Nothing could be further from the American values we all hold in our hearts than the Military Commissions Act."

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/detention/27091prs20061017...

Here's the ad: http://www.aclu.org/images/asset_upload_file672_27085.p...

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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #87
94. ACLU has been disappeared. No more constitutional law lawyers.
They also had to pay for their own disappearance.
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #87
117. Here's the Full Press Relese from the ACLU...

President Bush Signs Un-American Military Commissions Act, ACLU Says New Law Undermines Due Process and the Rule of Law

(10/17/2006)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: media@aclu.org

WASHINGTON - As President Bush signed S. 3930, the Military Commissions Act of 2006 into law, the American Civil Liberties Union expressed outrage and called the new law one of the worst civil liberties measures ever enacted in American history.

To highlight concerns with the act, the ACLU took out a full page advertisement in today's Washington Post, calling itself "the most conservative organization in America." Since its founding, the ACLU has fought to conserve the system of checks and balances and defend the Bill of Rights.

The following can be attributed to Anthony D. Romero, ACLU Executive Director:

"With his signature, President Bush enacts a law that is both unconstitutional and un-American. This president will be remembered as the one who undercut the hallmark of habeas in the name of the war on terror. Nothing separates America more from our enemies than our commitment to fairness and the rule of law, but the bill signed today is an historic break because it turns Guantnamo Bay and other U.S. facilities into legal no-man's-lands.

"The president can now - with the approval of Congress - indefinitely hold people without charge, take away protections against horrific abuse, put people on trial based on hearsay evidence, authorize trials that can sentence people to death based on testimony literally beaten out of witnesses, and slam shut the courthouse door for habeas petitions. Nothing could be further from the American values we all hold in our hearts than the Military Commissions Act."

The full page advertisement from the Washington Post is available at: <www.aclu.org/safefree/detention/27085leg20061017.html >

The ACLU's letter on S. 3930, the Military Commissions Act of 2006, is available at: <www.aclu.org/natsec/gen/26861leg20060925.html >

<http://www.aclu.org/safefree/detention/27091prs20061017... >

Here's a direct link to the ad: <http://www.aclu.org/images/asset_upload_file672_27085.p... >
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sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 02:17 AM
Response to Original message
90. RIP US Constitution; September 17, 1787, October 17, 2006
"The government will make use of these powers only insofar as they are essential for carrying out vitally necessary measures..."
~Adolf Hitler, March 23, 1933, before the German Parliment (Reichstag) as he urged them to pass his "Enabling Act"



October 17, 2006,The Enabling day of the 21st Century in following the last true dear leader of the warmongering party Adolph Hitler, Bush family friend and business partner! And after this post if you don't hear from me again I'll be found in one of those Halliburton built and managed detention facilities


Got Fascism Yet?
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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
91. Aside from Olberman -
I have not noticed any one of those familiar heads on Tv talk about this, when this idiocy was voted on in Congress.

Is it not high time for Letters to the Editor, Letters to the Producer?

Flood them!
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 03:05 AM
Response to Original message
95. I was never afraid of the way overhyped terrorists
but now I am afraid of my own government.
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 03:53 AM
Response to Original message
96. This is depressing.
Shit. :mad:
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 04:13 AM
Response to Original message
97. They claim we need to fear the terrorists
When really it is them we need to fear.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 05:58 AM
Response to Reply #97
98. This will be challenged in Court.
How long it will take to reach SC? Will the SC overturn it?
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 06:08 AM
Response to Reply #98
99. I hope it will be challenged
But considering how Chimpy has stacked the court I don't know how it will turn out if it is challenged.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #99
104. Two challenges already filed in court, BUT MUST BE CHALLENGED in public!!!
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Nikki Stone 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #104
110. So how do we get the "Dancing with the Stars" crowd to care?
And there are so many others brainwashed by Limbaugh.

Dumbed down education was for a purpose, and dictatorship was it.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-20-06 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #110
124. Nikki, don't think we need EVERYBODY to agree in order to win
even in a non-democracy, a majority of 51% is highly relevant but still opposed or at least not supported affirmatively by 49%. Don't let the minority who have not yet learned get you down.
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Pharaoh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
101. To the Hague with these bastards!
:nuke:
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
103. kicking and throwing
this back to the top
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
105. If a nation values anything more than freedom it will lose its freedom, ..
"If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose its freedom, and the irony of it is that if it is comfort or money that it values more, it will lose that too." -- William Somerset Maugham
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emald Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
106. I don't want to sound silly but...
is there any way to arrest the pResident using a citizens arrest? No elected officials seem to be wary of this legislation that makes gwbushit a dictatior, many democrats even voted for it. Unfuckingbelievable. It is quickly becoming a fighting matter. I for one will not roll over and go quietly into the future.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
107. Everyone needs to read this.
:kick:
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jarnocan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #107
108. thanks you all I was busy (bush GREENSBORO)
and would have and would have missed this. http://flickr.com/photos/jarnocan /
http://jarnocan.blogspot.com / No BU**SH**ZONE
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
111. Brilliant!
I love that you included Rollins' rant on freedom in there. :)

Can't wait to see your next piece!
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confuddled Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
112. "16 Protesters Arrested Near White House"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

I haven't seen any news coverage of the 111 DU posters who are upset about the signing of this bill.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #112
113. you should send out a press release
but the numbers are far greater than the number of people who post, also check out the Keith Olbermann threads and the many other threads on this same general area. Many hundreds of DUers and more being added every hour
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
114. Kick Again! n/t
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #114
116. thanks!
:hi:

I'm thrilled people are reading this. Now what do we do about it?
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-20-06 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #116
120. send me a PM if you want to be on a list for ideas
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-20-06 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
121. Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.
:shrug:
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-20-06 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #121
122. Janice? Is that you? : )
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-20-06 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
123. K&R. This is very important.
It is unbelievable that a Congress with a 12% approval rating and a pResident that has a 35% approval rating were allowed to shove this shockingly un American legislation through.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-20-06 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
125. Kick(nt)
:kick:
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BluePatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-20-06 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
127. K&R, good read
As long as people have the passion and power to speak out, maybe we can work together to change this.
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Magginkat Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
128. RE: America is no longer free
I called Sen. Bill Nelson's (Dem- FL) office the day I discovered that he had voted for this obscenity.

His assistant tried to give me some cock & bull story that he voted for it because of an amendment that was added.

I told her in no uncertain terms that there was no reason what-so-ever for Nelson to vote for this attack on the Constitution unless he wanted to. The Republicans had the vote to pass the thing without Nelson's help. Why the sam hill would any Democrat vote for this garbage unless he wanted to be a part of the Death of Democracy? Who, in their right mind would want to give this kind of power to the most bumbling, incompetent, vile human being who ever sat in the Oval Office?

Ms. Assistant tried to tell me that I was "Oh so wrong". So I told her that I respectfully request that Sen. Nelson submit a bill to rescind this it & that he send me a notice when he introduced the bill to undo this vile law. I am not holding my breath.
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