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Lidle was a Replacement Player and Outcast (The Hypocrisy Reeks)

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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 01:48 PM
Original message
Lidle was a Replacement Player and Outcast (The Hypocrisy Reeks)
Cory Lidle had a hard time of it at baseball. He was among a group of players who were considered scabs in the replacement season. He was not in the players' union, and his family is not eligible for a pension. All the ballplayers on television mourning his death are a bit much. He had a hard time of it in any locker room he's been a part of, and the union continues to rejct membership of Lidle and other replacement players.

I am pro-union, and I understand the reasons for taking a hard line on this sort of thing. But the gushing is a bit hypocritical. Lidle, and other players like him, are made to feel like outcasts on whatever team they're on. They're badmouthed in the press, as Lidle was after he left Philly, and consistently rejected for full membership in the players "fraternity." If you see John Kruk or others mourning the loss of Cory Lidle on your television, keep these facts in mind.
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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yeah Lidle was not well liked.
Still, it's better to have people speak nicely of you after you're dead and not mean it then to speak ill of you and mean it.

There is family to consider.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Indeed. I agree with you
They might do btter by his family by allowing him his pension posthumously - one of the things that was denied him by his rejection from the union.

But of course it's better to speak nicely. It's the hypocrisy behind it that's troubling.
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Fierce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. His rejection from the union?
Sounds like he rejected the union. Why should he get a pension?
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. he was a young pitcher
Who was told he'd never play if he didn't get on board. This was 11 years ago. Yes, I dislike scabs as well. But don't you think it's a bit much to be praising someone to high heaven while at the same time denying his family any support. I do. As I said, I'm pro-union, and I understand the hard line. It's just a bit hard to swallow. If some of the players were honest about his treatment, and the reasons for it, it would be a different matter.
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Fierce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Hardliner here.
So I disagree. No one wants to hear baseball's dirty laundry after someone dies in an accident. I think it's fine to say what they're saying. He made his choices.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Huh?
I really don't understand that. Nobody wants to hear baseball's dirty laundry? Why not? It seems distinctly relevant when a bunch of people are praising the guy, and his family doesn't get squat. I don't like hypocrisy of this kind by anyone, at any time.
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Fierce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. There is no hypocrisy.
His family gets squat because of his decision. That's a pretty shitty thing to do. But no one is going to get on TV and say that, nor should they, a day after his death, especially if everyone knows what's going on. There's a fine line between politeness and hypocrisy, of course.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. Very fine, apparently
It's very sad for the family that won't see jack squat. Heartfelt.
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Fierce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. He made his bed and unfortunately his family has to lie in it.
nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. 
[link:www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html|Click
here] to review the message board rules.
 
blitzen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. Kruk did mention that "not everyone is liked" in the baseball
family, but that the family comes together in tragic times...i thought it was strange when he said it, but now it makes sense
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. pathetic
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. What's pathetic?
:shrug:

These are facts, yes?
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. Your post reeks.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I don't understand these responses
Why does my post reek? Do you mind exlaining? I'm just stating what I think here, and it is backed up by the circumstances. What is so bad about my post that one person already had a deleted message, one person writes "pathetic," and you tell me it stinks? Please explain. I really don't get it.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. What are you saying? That Barry Zito is just pretending that
Edited on Thu Oct-12-06 02:22 PM by BuyingThyme
the loss of an old teammate by way of plane crash is hitting him on a very personal level? You think people's humanity is a function of union membership?
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Uh, no, that's not what I'm saying at all
Thanks for the ungenerous reading, though.

What I'm saying is that the commentary, while nice, seems to be in discord with the way this man was actually treated by many while alive. Whether that's the case with Barry Zito, I have no idea. It was clearly the case that Lidle was ostracized for his decisions in the mid-1990's, and that applied in most locker rooms in baseball, and continues to apply for other replacement players. Not sure what's so bad about saying that. It's true.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
13. on Imus this am the sports scumbags were dissing him
saying too bad he died, ahem, BTW he was asscake

What gents!
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
16. well just turn it off if it offends you when his fellow players express
their sadness at his death and that his family has lost a husband and father.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Ay yay yay
That';s not what offends me, and you know it. THey could care more about the family by posthumously allowing them the pension that they rejected year after year. That's the difference between lip service and action.
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
17. He also had the reputation of dissing teammates
to the press. He was friendly with the press and they would always be able to get a quote from him, even if it was at the expense of a teammate.

I wouldn't talk to him, either. Have a bad game and this guy would throw you under the bus for the sportswriters.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
18. I don't think your post reeks
Edited on Thu Oct-12-06 02:25 PM by cwydro
(besides I have the smell volume muted :) ) but I am surprised that YOU are surprised at people expressing sorrow at a death. I've always noticed that when someone dies young, that everyone ALWAYS says what a wonderful person they are. Kind of funny in a way, but I think it is a cultural thing....you know, not to speak ill of the dead. I'm not wild about hypocrisy, but this is a fairly harmless type, don't you think? I don't think your post stinks at all :)
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
23. Not Sure Why Some Are Getting Huffy Puffy With Ya. I Get What You're Sayin
Unfortunately it is human nature, and in my opinion not a bad part of it, to show genuine sympathy upon the loss of another decent human being, even if that person wasn't well liked when alive. Death changes everything about the perception of another.

I do know where you're coming from though. I think it's a shame that Lidle was outcasted in such ways and wish those grieving him now would've treated him a bit better when he was alive. But there is no going back now. You are right when you say that their gushing seems a bit hypocritical due to their lack of respect towards him prior, but I don't think that means that they shouldn't offer such grievances. Like I said, we all have our petty differences and animosities when we're alive, but unfortunately only upon death sometimes does human nature kick in enough to realize those differences were in fact petty and realize the true decent value of the human being. That's why the grieving takes place from those who would not be expected to do so genuinely. It's because they now have realized that no matter what he did that made them disassociate with him to begin with, that he was a decent human being and a good person that did not deserve his recent fate. It's the awareness that in the grand scheme of life, those things were just not important anymore, and the sadness that comes with realizing a decent person has been lost.

Unfortunately, those realizations oftentimes come to many only after the subject is no longer with us to change our behavior towards: But like I said, that's human nature. We could all do better in life if we started identifying our petty differences that are simply not worth permanent animosity ahead of time, prior to death.

Having that said, I'm not sure why others are attacking your post. All you did was provide some background fact on the player and what he had to deal with, from those now grieving heavily. But I hope you understand that it may not really be hypocrisy for them to do so, but instead it's them realizing how petty their gripes were in the scheme of things, and the sadness that comes with realizing all opportunity is now lost to make it up to that person.
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