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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:32 AM
Original message
Poll question: Outing Gays - a Second poll
Imagine you have a supervisor who is a Bush Republican and beyond that is a total jerk. You know that he's gay and you know that senior management doesn't know he is Gay. In fact, you've seen him speak against gay marraiges and tell mean-spirited anti-gay jokes in order to ingratiate himself with senior management. If they knew about his "Gayness" you would get his job, its an almost certainty. What would you do?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

Sorry, polls are turned off at Level 3.

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Akoto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. I wouldn't do anything.
I personally don't feel that sexual orientation is anybody's business. I certainly don't wear mine on my sleeve, because like my personality or my hair color, it's just another part of me.

Besides, if he's doing what you describe in the scenario, then he's already punishing himself enough. Self-hatred is about as dismal a situation as you can put yourself in, and whatever power you might gain from it is ultimately unrewarding.
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queenbdem87 Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. Sexual Orientations isn't anyone's business, but...
if this person is actively working against gays, then it is up to honest people to expose the hypocrisy and stop the gay bashing.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
3. I wouldn't do anything, unless he ran for public office
Or unless he was working for one of those anti-gay organizations.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Why is it different if he runs for public office?
I mean if the's a hypocrite in offoce or out of office isn't it the same?
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. In public office, he has the power to shape public policy. n/t
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. If he's your supervisor doesn't he have the power to shape
office policy? What if you suspected that he wouldn't hire any gays because he knew that senior management would dissapprove?

Bryant
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Now you are changing the facts.
If you want to toss in "and he was personally responsible for implementing anti-gay workplace regulations etc.' to your hypothetical, that might change things. The fact that you stand to personally gain from your action however would overwhelm the case for outing the idiot.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. There are no facts
And please don't pretend I'm doing anything sinster by asking follow up questions. I'm just curious what the line is.

I probably wouldn't out a supervisor, but mostly because I'm a moral coward, not for any deep moral reason. But I'm curious as to what the right thing to do would be - and why it's different in the office place.

Bryant
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. OK fine whatever.
Your original question contained a set of hypothetical facts. If you then change those conditions you will eventually get different answers.

The difference is that offices can't legislate.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. There are USUALLY ways to deal with that problem without outing him.n/t
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IntravenousDemilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
6. Probably next time this hypothetical person told a mean-spirited anti-gay
Edited on Thu Oct-12-06 11:46 AM by IntravenousDemilo
joke in front of senior management, I'd bluster, "I just don't understand why you of all people would tell a joke like that". I wouldn't actually have said he was gay in so many words, but the supervisor would be kind of uncomfortable and would have to do some skating to make up some excuse on the fly, which of course anyone would be able to see through, even those in senior management.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
7. depends on how his leadership impacted me
If he was in the closet while I was out and I couldn't advance as a result of that, I'd out the bastard on the way out the door myself. I wouldn't work anywhere where I couldn't be out.

Why do we think we get points in heaven for condoning that kind of crap? Mostly, if he was a great supervisor, personal opinions aside, I'd leave him alone, but if his skills that way sucked, I'd play whatever cards were required to replace him. If you're spending roughly 40 percent of your waking hours at a company, you have a right to make it a modern, comfortable productive environment and assholes don't need to be coddled.

Plus if he's dishonest about that, he probably doesn't have any problems being dishonest and unethical about other things.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
9. Frank rule does not apply here.
Your supervisor's sexuality and politics and utterances do not justify wrecking his life and the fact that you would stand to personally gain from destroying his career makes this even more questionable.
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DaveJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
13. They can't legally discriminate can they?
I would not want to be party to illegal discrimination. There are better ways to get ahead in life.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
14. Dumb question. But if he was that much of an asshole and I could
get him fired, I would.

But since I'm gay too, I don't see how this whole hypothetical works anyway.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. It's a hypothetical question, I admit
and doesn't fit all situations equally.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Here's an answer for you then: I don't think homosexuality
(or heterosexuality) is a dirty secret. I furthermore have no interest in keeping secrets for my enemies.

That's prettyy all purpose. :-)
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. I think it depends on who you are. I don't think straight people
should "out" anyone. I think that a gay person has to make the decision for him or herself.

One of the things about "outing" that most don't understand is that the purpose is not to shame anyone by exposing their hypocrisy to the straight world but is,instead, to purge the gay community of a cancer. It is a self-cleaning process. And, I would out any closeted gay who enjoys the succor and support of the vast homosexual sub-culture while using the homophobic structure of the greater culture to further their personal ambitions. All homophobic homosexuals should be shoved away from the camp fire.
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
19. I would pity him
I can't imagine the amount of self hate one must have to do something like that.

I wouldn't out him but I'm evil enough to send an anonymous note to him saying I know about his orientation and if he makes one more homophobic comment in the work place then he will be outed. At least scare him into acting decent while in a professional setting.
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IntravenousDemilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. You know, I think I like your answer.
Edited on Fri Oct-13-06 10:58 AM by IntravenousDemilo
Even better than mine.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
20. Let me pose some other hypotheticals:
What if the supervisor was a Democrat in an otherwise conservative company, was a jerk, and was a closet gay? Would you out him if it would give you his job? Would you out him if you would not get his job? Would you out him if you discovered he was putting sexual pressure on a fellow employee? Reporting sexual harassment would be appropriate in any case, but in this situation the choice to report it would clearly "out" him and possibly have more consequences than it otherwise would.

The variations are endless. We do not live in a simple black and white world. What would be considered to be wrong or reprehensible for personal gain or revenge might be viewed entirely differently under different circumstances.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
21. I prefer to think of it as outing the hypocrisy.
And nothing's better to watch than hypocrisy being exposed.

Bake
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
22. I wouldn't do anything - it would be letting myself down; becoming like
them.

If I had any choice (and sometimes one doesn't), I would not choose to work in a place where people even could be let go or demoted as a result of being gay, as the scenario implies. That too would be letting myself down and against my principles.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
23. two wrongs dont make a right
since i am gay..i doubt i would get promoted


also i think regardless of another human being's moral lacking it doesnt justify my behavior to out him so i can get promoted

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