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Gov. Warner Expected To Say Today - He Will Not Run For President In '08

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 08:28 AM
Original message
Gov. Warner Expected To Say Today - He Will Not Run For President In '08
October 12, 2006
Breaking: Warner May Not Run In '08
Ex-VA Gov. Mark Warner plans to make a major announcement today about his 2008 presidential bid, three Virginia Democratic sources said. According to two Virginia Democrats who have been formally briefed, Warner is expected to say that he has decided not to run for president in 2008. Warner will speak to Virginia reporters at 11:00 am ET. A Warner spokeswoman declined to comment.

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/10...
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. Unfortunate.
I am not sure he would be "the one," but we could use some more non-senator candidates from flippable red states.
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liberaldemocrat7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
17. I don't find this surprising.




I have an unofficial poll from a myspace group I run. Mark Warner gets a miniscule amount of votes here.

Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, John Kerry, Russ Feingold and Barack Obama lead in this poll.


Who do you plan to support for president in 2008?

Al Gore 95 Votes
John Edwards 31 Votes
John Kerry 85 Votes
Mark Warner 8 Votes
Evan Bayh 4 Votes
Russ Feingold 65 Votes
Barack Obama 52 Votes
Joe Biden 15 Votes
Hillary Clinton 177 Votes
Wes Clark 34 Votes
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. How was Clinton polling in 1990? Or Kerry in 2002?
Clark was winning the polls on DU by large margins, but that (unfortunately) didn't indicate how we would do nationally.
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brentblack Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #17
42. The more people know...
....the more they will want to vote for Evan Bayh.

Bayh 2008
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. If true, bad news for Dems everywhere n/t
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
3. He Probably Fears HRC Has The Nomination Wrapped Up.
I like HRC's odds against a crowded field.

I do think John Edwards has the best chance of stopping her.


I hope so because I don't think she can win.


That's my analysis not what I wish to happen.
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Frances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. If Warner thought HRC were going to be his main
competition, there's no way he would drop out. He knows he'd have an excellent chance against her. My guess is that he knows that Obama is a more formidable opponent.
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phylny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #8
27. I can't imagine that Obama is at all ready to run for President.
He has very little senatorial experience.

I'd love to see Warner as a VP to someone like Clark or Gore. I think he'd be an asset to any ticket.
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-14-06 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #27
44. He's Too Young...
I have ties older than him.
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
4. That's very unfortunate.
He was probably our best candidate for 2008.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. On Paper...
Bob Graham was probably our best candidate in 04 from a purely electoral view and he flopped.
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-14-06 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
47. HUH?
Bob Graham had health issues. He never even got on the dance floor.

So, Warner's out. That's too bad.

Whatever happened to Evan Bayh? He's awfully moderate but a lot of Republicans would cross over to vote for someone who can speak to both sides of the aisle.

And then there's always Gore...who's obviously itching for a fight.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
5. Interesting,,,maybe has his eyes on the Senate...
Rumor is John Warner is retiring after this term...Warner would be a heavy favorite!
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Tom Davis supposedly wants to run for that seat as well..
that would be an interesting race.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. I think Warner would kill Davis....
And though I think Davis is probably gonna beat Andy Hurst, I think his margin is gonna be way thinner than he is used to. I believe Davis' district went over 60% for Kaine last year!
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. The Davis camp polled me last night...
I would have lied to thrown off their numbers but I didn't know it was them until I'd already given them my answer.
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beyurslf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
6. What does it say about our process that candidates have to say they
are in or out before we even have the 2006 election? How many candidates will be starting committees in Dec or Jan? It takes 2 years and 200M+ to run now.
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Comicstripper Donating Member (876 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
30. Well
He did say that he didn't want people continuing to make donations and working toward building a campaign that wasn't going to happen. I think it was a very considerate move, actually. Why allow speculation to continue and possibly skew other candidates' decisions about whether to enter the race?
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
9. Hopefully he will be a part of the next...
Democratic Administration, Secretary of Commerce?

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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
11. Too Bad He Didn't Run Against Senator Macacca
Edited on Thu Oct-12-06 09:17 AM by DemocratSinceBirth
eom
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
12. He's the most electable Dem out there. He had plenty of money, and a
good core organization around him.

This is the worst political news I've heard for a while.
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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
34. Don't forget Wes Clark (nt)
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magnolia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
13. As a Virginian....
Edited on Thu Oct-12-06 09:17 AM by magnolia
...I'm glad he is doing this and I respect him for it. He's young, he has time. By 2008, I hope we aren't just looking for someone who can win. I want the most qualified person to be the most likely to win.
I can dream........

Virginians had wanted Warner to run for senate. If that had happened, he would have won hands down. Allen would have already given his concession speech!! But, now I am glad we have a really good person in Jim Webb running for senate. Maybe we'll have a Warner/Warner senate race next time around.

I have great admiration for Bill Clinton for going from world leader to finding ways to still be relevant. It's something every young political figure needs to consider....where do you go from the presidency? In the senate, you can remain relevant until you're 80+. In Virginia, former Gov. Wilder is now the mayor of Richmond. I can't see Mark Warner doing anything like that.

On the other hand, he probably wouldn't run for president unless the odds of winning were very high.
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Maryland Liberal Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Well- Hillary must be doing Cartwheels
A likeable southern moderate with a good chance to win, wont try= SIGH =Damn it, looks like we are gonna get stuck with Hillary.
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Tarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. VP?
Any bets on how high he'll be on the VP lists?
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jaybeat Donating Member (729 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. I'm sick of so-called "moderates who can win"!!
Why does everyone assume we have to "settle" for a "moderate"/DINO??? :wtf:

Obama's just as bad as Hillary--both have times and issues where they are no better than apologists for our current right-wing junta.

Assuming the Riepold's don't hijack '06, the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party will be in a position to step up and stop acting like a kicked puppy.

What about John Edwards? He's from the south and isn't afraid to call the Repukes on their war on the middle class. Al's also got cred up the ying-yang, despite some "moderate" positions in his portfolio. (What with global warming and the destruction of the middle class, I bet he's re-thinking NAFTA et. al., big time.)

We need to start looking for the *best* candidate with the *best* plan to fix this poor country; not the face that polls best or offends the fewest focus group participants!

:rant:
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DeeDeeNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Excellent point
I think the Democratic party is seriously misjudging just how fed up mainstream Democrats are.
Everyone I speak to has moved far to the left
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Amen. DLC thinkin' is stinkin'.
:patriot:
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. I like Edwards
But the thing they will roll out against him is that he has "no experience" because he was just a "one-term senator." As if the party that complains about "elites" thought being a professional politician is a good thing.

As a Democrat, as a Tarheel, I like him a lot. He's a southerner, and yet he's to the left of Hillary on just about everything. Was he right on Iraq from the get go? No, but he has admitted his mistake.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. Hi Maryland Liberal!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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kegler14 Donating Member (541 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #15
28. Well if we get stuck with Hillary
prepare to be stuck with yet another Republican president. She has too many negatives.
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SCRUBDASHRUB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #28
38. Welcome to DU, Kegler (from a fellow Virginian)
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-14-06 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #28
45. No Rust Belt Democrat...
...has become President since Jack Kennedy. That's no accident.

This is about demographics. It's about southern-based, services-oriented industries relocating to environments that are friendlier to business. It started under Nixon and there's nothing we can do about it. There's so much building in Dallas, Austin and Houston that the concrete companies can't keep up with the demand.

Did you know that Texas and Florida are virtually guaranteed to increase their Electoral totals by three votes each in 2010? When was the last time either one of these states voted Democratic in a presidential election? Yeah...Florida went blue in 1996 but went red for 2000 (sorta) and 2004.

In the census of 2010, the population of North Carolina will exceed the population of New Jersey. When that happens, it will suddenly become more important to win North Carolina (one of the reddest states there is) than New Jersey (one of the bluest).

Warner would have been a great candidate. So would Clark, Napolitano, Richardson...these are all good people with solid resumes.

Hillary Clinton should stay out of the race for the good of the country and the party. As soon as she declares, Fox News will be right on top of her with stories of Whitewater, Vince Foster, Monicagate...it'd be a disaster.

I wonder what Jim Carville's thinking right now.
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shawn703 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
40. John Warner will likely retire
From what I hear - It may be a Warner/Gilmore race in 2008. Warner should win that one hands down - Virginians still have a bad taste in their mouth from when Gilmore was governor.
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merci_me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
19. There are more important things
I just hope he's not making the announcement due to health problems of his own or his family. I sincerely hope it's political and not his family's health.
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stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
20. A heavyweight may have talked him out of it...
I'm imagining that either Gore or Clark has talked to him about either being a V.P. or otherwise participating in their administrations.

Let's face it... if either Gore or Clark runs, one of them is getting the nom, not Hillary. Hillary's appeal amongst non-DNCers (the party activists who actually vote in primaries) is decidedly weak. Whereas Gore or Clark already have large appeal and are viewed as unstoppable in a general election.
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Comicstripper Donating Member (876 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. Sadly, I think you're overestimating Wes Clark
He's a personal favorite of mine, believe me. But from what I hear, he isn't too optimistic about running, and may even decide against it. He doesn't have nearly the buzz around him Warner did, or Obama does, or Clinton has purchased. I just don't see Warner bowing out for Clark. I do think he may be considering his VP options, but then again his speech didn't make it sound like he was too thrilled at the idea of a national campaign right now.
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disndat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #20
41. Gore '08
My intuiition says that Gore will announce his intentions,'08, by the end of the year. He's the only Democratic name that could beat H.C. and McCain in '07. Don't forget that H.C. is probably getting her huge campaign chest from the Rupert Murdoch and other big corporations because she would be the Democratic candidate easiest to defeat, against the most likely Repub candidate, McCain.
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TornadoTN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
29. This is a BIG surprise to me
I met Governor Warner two weeks ago during a sweep across Tennessee on behalf of Harold Ford, Jr. I spoke with several of his staff (he had a very sizable contingent with him) and most of them were all being prepped for his Presidential run. The ones I talked to were sold on the fact that he was going to be running for President. When I spoke to Warner personally he said, "That would be interesting, wouldn't it?" when I posed the question to him about being a Presidential candidate.

When he spoke in Johnson City, Tennessee at one of the Ford campaign events, people were chanting "President, President" at him and he played off of that by outlining what, who, and why the Bush administration has been a failure and even mentioned what he would have done differently. It came across as a Presidential candidate type of speech and I believe everyone in attendence felt that he was going to be a candidate (a formidable one at that).

Color me surprised. I'm not sure what happened, but I'm disappointed in his decision not to run. Hopefully its not any health concerns. Beyond that I'm stunned at this news. I hope noone tried to talk him out of running because we would be better off having a vibrant primary race with candidates from all persuasions within the party.
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-14-06 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #29
56. I Can't See Why...
...there would be some kind of health problem.

He looks good and seems to be the type that runs 2-3 miles per day.

I would say there's something in his background. He's young, smart, good looking and RICH. Those guys fool around because they CAN.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
32. Well, here's hoping that other "moderate" in NY will do the same.
"A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice." - Tom Paine
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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
33. I hope he runs for Senate
Current Repub Senator John Warner (no relation) is around 80 years old. Senator Warner beat Futuure Governor Warner by a small margin in 1996.
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Misha2 Donating Member (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Mark Warner
was discussed at one of the blogs as possibly having a situation with interns and staffers and relationships. No idea if this is true but if so it will come out soon enough.
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-14-06 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #35
46. Really?
Well...he does have a little bit of that studly thing going. He's in shape and he's wealthy.
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557188 Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
36. Great News!
Warner was unelectable and didn't connect with the core base.

That eyebrow didnt appeal to the mythical moderate vote either.

This is wonderful news. Opens the door to actual progressive canidates and not just another right wing nutjob pretending to be a Democrat.
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-14-06 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #36
48. Yeah, Sure...
...you too can have another candidate who ends up behind the podium at Faneuil Hall or the Waldorf-Astoria, conceding the race to a Republican!

Don't you think it's better to win? I sure do.

Adlai Stevenson was a progressive. McGovern was a progressive. Mondale was a progressive.

Look what happened to them!

This whole southern demographic and cultural thing has to be dealt with, or the party's gonna disappear.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
37. Good.
One less poor choice to worry about.

Now if I could just convince most of the rest on everyone's list to do the same, maybe some of the Democrats that I'd actually like to support might stand a chance.

:D
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
39. excellent!!....he sucks....n/t
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woodsgirl Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. Good
I'm glad Warner isn't running. Now, if Corporate Hill would announce she isn't running, I would be oh so happy. Don't forget Bill likes NAFTA, welfare reform with no jobs for welfare moms, 3 strikes and you're out and mandantory minimum prison sentences. Wes Clark was republican before he was democrat and more of the same. Let's stop voting against our own interests. If Hillary has the most money from corporations, it's not a good sign. I personally don't think she is electable. She doesn't have the connection with people Bill has anyway....no leadership ability. Go Feingold/Edwards.
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-14-06 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. If The Nominee...
...is Russ Feingold, there will be an Electoral disaster beyond anything we've seen in twenty years.

Clinton was successful in 1992 and 1996 because he carried at least five southern states in each race.

Which five do you think Russ Feingold will carry? Can you name them?

WELL?

If the Republicans run McCain against Hillary and he carries California (possible), the race is immediately over. She won't carry much if anything in the south and there aren't enough states left over for her to be viable. McCain would definitely carry Ohio and possibly Pennsylvania. Game, Set, Match.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-14-06 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
49. good bye you howdy doody sell out piece of shit. Don't let the door
hit your ass on the way out!

Another Warner thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Reasons to be glad he chickened out:

Whether he had a shot, Warner would have been an interesting candidate to have in the race. He was running to Hillary's right and saying the kind of moderate things that would have picked a fight with the party's liberal activists. Party fights are good: They work things out, and the Democrats could use the debate. At one point, Warner said the finger-pointing about Bush misleading America into Iraq wasn't helpful and that the party needed to move on. He said tax cuts were not a universal evil and that when Democrats talk about taxing the rich, they offend those people who want to be rich themselves someday. He was not a fan of what he called the party's "class warfare" populism that many Democrats think is the key to winning back the White House.

http://www.slate.com/id/2151423/?nav=tap3



What would a guy like this say in a debate with a republican--"Vote for him"?
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-14-06 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. What You Don't Understand...
...is that this is precisely what most people who live in the suburban and rural south believe.

Their populations are growing. Yours (if you're a Rust Belt guy) aren't.

This is FACT. I know a lot of people who would vote for someone with those views.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-14-06 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. where do the majority of Americans who oppose the war, torture, and
erosion of civil rights live?

should we pander to an ignorant minority with policies that screw the vast majority?

Why bother to have two parties then?
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-14-06 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Look...
Edited on Sat Oct-14-06 03:26 PM by datavg
...I lived in the South for awhile. By Ohio standards I'm a Truman-Kennedy Democrat but by Texas standards I was a raving liberal. By Southern California suburban standards I'm a tad conservative but pretty much middle of the road on most issues.

Did you know that the state of Tennessee is building something called The 540 Project, which is a 240 mile hub and spoke highway system around Nashville?

Did you know that the state of Georgia is planning ANOTHER perimeter highway around Atlanta?

Did you know that Austin will be almost completely surrounded by toll roads in another ten years?

When was the last time you were in the Charlotte airport? Flying into that place was AMAZING. I was initially there fifteen years ago and I hardly recognized it in 2003. The Virginia suburbs of DC are even more striking.

This is REALITY. It is not going away. I believe the elections of 2002 and 2004 proved that point.

Nominating Hillary or Russ Feingold or anyone else of that stripe is absolute political suicide, just as nominating Mondale in 1984 was a sure loser and McGovern in 1972 almost as bad.

The Democratic party MUST realign. Yes...we're going to win a few seats this time around. Sure - and then we may damn well lose them in 2008 if Nancy Pelosi and her minions behave as I suspect they will.

Pat Caddell has it nailed. We should listen to him.

As to the matter of having two parties...well, we're almost a one party nation now excepting California and the west coast. This will be the first year in about fifteen years that a Democrat has won statewide office in Ohio. Democrats aren't all that strong in California outside the Los Angeles and San Francisco metropolitan areas. I live in Santa Clarita and we have a Republican congressman. San Diego was always conservative and always will be due to the military influence. I attended a conference there two weeks ago where I got off the train at midnight, walked to the hotel and there's a Lt. Commander checking in at the front counter beside me...medals and everything! I suspect she wasn't there for the hacker conference.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-14-06 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. you are buying into the DLC thing that progressives are only NE
hippies and flower children like George McGovern or Jerry Brown.

I think John Edwards could get votes in the South. It is not just a matter of positions but of presentation. Although someone like Warner might be a closer ideological match down there, people would probably judge him as a spineless pussy who stands for nothing, and they would be correct.

Additionally, as all those places urbanize, people will become more educated and more liberal, and the small government shtick doesn't wash when you see the need for cops and schools and good roads every day.

Or we could just ask the chamber of commerce to pick our elected officials for us since the Democrats give them veto power almost as much as the GOP.
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-14-06 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. Good Points!
Yes, increasing urbanization tend to make the Democratic platform more saleable as time goes by.

But, how much time? Ten years? Twenty? I'm forty years old! How many years do we want to waste?

Most of Dallas has good cops and good roads and good schools now. When I lived in Plano, we had prep school quality public schools that you could walk to...AND we had a ~2800 sq ft brick custom home with pool and spa for $239000! You couldn't find a decent piece of pizza if your life depended on it but oh God...the Mexican food and barbeque was incredible! There's nothing in California like it...

...but then again, I haven't been to Santa Maria yet. They say it's worth the drive.

I truly believe the Rust Belt will continue its precipitous demographic decline, possibly accelerating as the Detroit automakers finally figure out what's happening and start closing factories as they restructure and try to survive. I'm telling everyone I know with degrees and/or skills to get the hell out of there while they still have their credit and retirement nest eggs...moving to Denver or Albuquerque or Phoenix or possibly San Diego if they have a few shekels in their pockets and possibly an advanced degree.

Do I enjoy being right? Normally...yes but in this case, no. This is nothing but abject suffering that was completely unnecessary if only Detroit had listened to American consumers 20-30 years ago.

I may not go home for a long, long time.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-14-06 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. I'm on the West Coast, so I can't speak for the Rust Belt
it's too bad those fart knocker car companies were so busy trying to do bookkeeping tricks by cutting corners on their products and laying people off that they didn't bother to get ahead of the curve on hybrids and electric cars.

Some where along the way, those companies got taken over by MBA's and Wall Street types instead of people who actually know and love the product.

Any exec who does anything with an eye to the stock price should have a rock tied around his neck and be thrown in a pond, along with all the Enron types who took that non-sense to such an extreme that they didn't even have a product.
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-14-06 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Well...
Edited on Sat Oct-14-06 09:18 PM by datavg
...I got news for ya, ALL of those guys make decisions based on the stock price. They have to because that's what senior management expects.

I'm not asking for electrics and hybrids. I just want cars that are well made, run for a long time, are safe and affordable. Mileage would be nice but it's secondary.

I want to be able to trust General Motors again. Give me a reason to junk my foreign cars!

I also have a hard time believing Detroit can't do it better and cheaper. When you think of the kind of capital General Motors has and the kinds of things they've done in their history (built stuff for World War II, pulled the country out of the Depression) you have to believe they're not interested in making cars anymore.

GM can do anything if it wants to. I've always believed that and I always will.

I like old television shows. Go through your TiVo if you have one, record an old episode of Dragnet or most anything from that era and watch it. Notice how few of the cars on the road were foreign nameplates. I'm in California and I know California was always different but it's getting to the point where Chevrolet is essentially out of business here. That's ridiculous!
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. worrying about stock price and the product aren't always the same...
What GM and the other American companies obviously did was figure they could boost their profit margin by making a shitty product. Then when people bought foreign, instead of correcting the problem, they again just messed with the numbers by laying people off.

I don't know how old you are, but I'm in my early 40s, and I have not seriously considered buying an American car since high school when I had the usual teen obsession with muscle cars. My dad and my roommate in college both bought baby blazers that had the engine blocks crack under normal use. My mom had a Ford Escort that similarly went tits up. Meanwhile, we had some beat up old 70s Corona wagons that were still going strong well into the 90s. All of them were still running when we sold them.

I wonder what the execs of the auto companies say about why they make shitty cars?

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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. I Am...
...forty years old and will be forty one shortly before Christmas.

The first car I ever owned was a beaten up, full size Buick that burned oil and was inescapably ugly. The next car was a 1982 four door Honda Accord that had 100000 miles on it when I bought it and 200000 miles on it when I sold it to my mother in law...and I understand she sold it to someone who drove it until the engine finally blew up years later.

I'd like to think the Americans can do better but I fear the bean counter and save ass corporate culture of Detroit won't permit it. Ed Wallace has written quite a bit about this and says the "save my job at all costs" mentality has been around at GM and Ford since before the Great Depression and may well be impossible to get rid of without acquisition by a foreign automaker. That would seem to be true, considering everything we've heard about how difficult it was to integrate Chrysler into Daimler-Benz.

Before it's all over, I think we're going to see General Motors acquired by the Asians...and then the shit will really fly. They're saying Ford may not survive because it doesn't have GM's ability to spread costs across so many divisions. That's been GM's secret weapon since the Great Depression and even into the days just before World War II.
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