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Joe for Clark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:39 PM
Original message
We really are going to win.
It does not mean we shouldn't work our asses off to do it.

Frankly, the more we win - so to speak - the better off we will be.

However, I really think - If you believe you're gonna win, you're gonna win - and that is where we are right now. You should believe it. It is an attitude.

There should be no illusion to it.

In fact, if you think some part of the recent rally of the DJIA has to do with a republican "illusion" or attempt to maintain it - SELL IT.

Cause I'll tell you, I think Goldman Sachs clients are selling the hell out it right now.

And "Goldman" is backing the dems.

Interesting world sometimes.

Joe







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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well said.
B-) :thumbsup:

NGU.


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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I believe
:hi:, doll!

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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. Don't Get Too Used To It
We're only going to win for two years - the Rethugs will, once again, hand us our asses in '08.

The electorate still likes Rethug ideas - they just hate these specific Rethugs. There'll be a new batch in '08, baggage-free and seemingly more competent - and they'll fucking destroy us. Sorry - these are the inevitable fruits of triangulation as strategy.

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Joe for Clark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I'll worry about two year from now - oh, two years from now.
We don't even have two years at this point, Manny.

Joe
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. We're in the process of re-establishing our principles.
That's the key. And we will do it.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. It Will Require A Revolution
I wish I could share your hopefulness - but the gap between "what is" and "what oughta be" is enormous - and the current Dems will be hard to change, since they'l believe that they one through effective triangulation, not because the other side imploded.

I will pray.
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Joe for Clark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I pray a lot lately.
I REALLY like your FDR image.

Joe
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razors edge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Nor will they remember the people
who put them there I fear. Only going to remember all the money it took to get their mug on the tube and look for the next war chest.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. This Is Bullshit: "The electorate still likes Rethug ideas"
Edited on Mon Oct-09-06 10:17 PM by Beetwasher
Total bullshit. The electorate likes DEM ideas. Why do you think Repubs always hide their real agenda behind names that come from DEM ideas?

What Repub ideas does the electorate like? Fair wages? Health insurance? Balanced budgets? Responsible spending? Lower taxes for the lower and middle classes? ALL of them are DEM ideas and policies. Repubs name their policies AFTER Dem ideas and then actually implement the complete opposite.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Pop Quizz
Name 5 Dems who favor universal single-payer healthcare. Name 5 Dems who have specific proposals for lowering taxes on the Middle Class and/or raising it on the Predator Class. Name 5 Dems who have proposed raising the minimum wage to something at or above above the poverty level for a family - as it was when first enacted. These are all Democratic ideas - too bad we don't have Democrats to back 'em.

Today's "Democrats" triangulate using traditional Republican ideas against the fringe-Right ideas spewed by today's Republicans.
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Joe for Clark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. Social Security was a Dem idea - FDR's idea -
You know -

You think this is about tactics - it is not - never was - It is about what "people" believe - about the perception of who will "do the right thing" - It really is. War or otherwise.

Those "traditional" republican ideas were IN FACT the great ideas comming from a "radical" FDR trying to get this country out of the great depression - really. And lead us thru a war that determined the next "dark age".

We are on the right side of history. I am sure. I think they may know that too, in a strange way.

Joe



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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #14
29. That Is An UTTER Load Of Crap!
Edited on Tue Oct-10-06 09:30 AM by Beetwasher
"Today's "Democrats" triangulate using traditional Republican ideas"

Utter and total bullshit! You make the claim YOU provide the evidence. You said: The electorate likes Repub ideas. Name five ideas Dems stole from the Repubs. Go ahead. I'll make it easier, name two. Healthy forests? Clean air initiative? Fair taxes? Prescritpion Drug Benefit? All DEMOCRATIC sounding policies that actually do the OPPOSITE of what their names suggest. Repubs STEAL from the Dems for NAMING their policies, then implement the opposite. The electorate likes the SOUND of Repub TALKING POINTS and the sound of wha they CALL their policies. It's called propoganda. And the names for their policies are all lies that come from DEMOCRATIC IDEAS. Their actual ideas and policies are the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what the electorate actually wants.

What an utter load of horseshit you are peddling.

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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. Bullshit, Manny
The electorate is largely Democratic. Prior to Bush's first coronation, there was a whole lot of talk about the shifting demographics of the United States. Shifts toward the left, because of all the immigrants and the general attitude of the country. The republican machine read the reports, too, and took pro-active steps to make sure it didn't happen before they got their hands in deeply into the till. The crap about American liking Republican ideas is nothing short of laughable. Some Americans do, to be sure. But not the electorate as a whole. Or else ANY republican idea beside war and tax cuts for the wealthy would be law now. Name one thing the GOP has done for "the electorate." Nothing. BushCo knows they don't have to do shit for the electorate, because the electorate never voted them in in the first place.

BushCo is only there for the war profits, and to get them bases built and embassy built before they get permanently run out of town.

.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hope so Joe.
I'm pretty exhausted. Letters, emails, meetings, etc. and the stresses in my mind of losing.
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Joe for Clark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. You keep going MMONK -
There is nothing sweeter than a pay-off earned.

And our payday is coming soon.

Joe
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. It ain't over til it;s over. This is Rove we're dealing with here.
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Joe for Clark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. DO NOT overrate the guy!!
It is a BIG mistake.

You know how it is the Army of the Potomac really came to win under Grant?? Do you??

Grant came to command the AOP in that spring of 1864. He had commanders all over saying " Lee was going to do this - and Lee was going to do that" And he said plainly - I don't care what Lee is going to do to us, what are you going to do to him??

That is how he won. That is how we will win, too.

He really is just a bald fat guy after all (Rove).

SO - what are you going to do to him, so to speak??


Joe



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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. there is logic on both sides
I do believe that if one believes something strong enough, it is possible to will it into existence, or create an outcome. I believe there is something there. But I also know that there is nothing wrong with being prepared for the worst. I give rove every benefit fo the doubt, and I think we all should. If a rove scheme fails to materialize, we are not the worse off for having been prepared.
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Joe for Clark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. There isn't.
If you believe, realistically - your gonna lose, you are. You believe your gonna win and you will.

That is how they "did us" these past years.

I don't fault the tactic. And I sure will NEVER credit Rove with this series of events.

I am realistic - and we are gonnna kick their ass in, we REALLY are.

Joe
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. wish I could be as sure
Edited on Mon Oct-09-06 10:41 PM by Skip Intro
I remember posts trumpeting a sure thing in 2000, and 2002, and 2004...especially 2004.

I can't ignore that
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Joe for Clark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Its the force, Luke -
I couldn't resist that.

And I'll remember 2004 for a LONG time. I know it was stolen - maybe I can't prove it right now, doesn't change it.

Joe
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
12. I had a flash from a scene "A League of Their Own"
When Tom Hanks throws a mitt at "Stillwell Angel" - then I remembered - the kid was right.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
15. The are going to steal it (again) but we need to work our ASSES off to
keep us so far ahead in the polls that we can prove election fraud.
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Riddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
17. I'm either a pessimist or a realist, but I'm worried
I'm starting to worry about all the news of doom and gloom for the repukes and the end of their revolution. I;m worried that dems will become too complacent thinking we've got this thing locked up, and the news of the impending doom will mobilize the right-wingnuts even more than before to get them to the polls. We need to stop gloating about what MAY happen and work our asses off to make sure it DOES happen. We need to win big, and by big I mean by enough votes that they won't be able to fix the election without it being even more obvious than it was in 2000 and 2004.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. see 17
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Joe for Clark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. Legitimate - But why is it, you think - they need to make it
appear as if they have a shot at all - why??

There is an answer. And it has played out the past two cycles.

Not this time.

Joe
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. possible the corporations see R's as a liability?
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Joe for Clark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I think so -
He is - and they are smart.

I 'll tell you one thing - Goldman Sachs is bailing on him. And really, they are the investment bankers to be watching, I think.

I think they've had it with him just as much as we have, I really do.

Joe
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thatsrightimirish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
20. Great Post
I think we do need to have a lot of confidence in ourselves and compete. I didn't really see anything like this in 2004 but now I am really seeing the aggresssive side of democrats this year. It is an attitude and we should stick with it.
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