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jhuth at work Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:24 AM
Original message
American Prison Camps Are on the Way
"Kellogg Brown & Root, a Halliburton subsidiary, is constructing a huge facility at an undisclosed location to hold tens of thousands of Bush's "unlawful enemy combatants." Americans are certain to be among them."

Article here.

http://www.alternet.org/rights/42458 /

Could this FEMA camp be part of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9Ut-t7k_zY

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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. A few years late with that announcement, friend
There may be more prison camps on the way, but we've had them for several years already, unless Guantanamo Bay really is a Club Med and the people we've been rendering to Syria and Saudi Arabia and Egypt were being debriefed rather than melted down.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. yes, preaching to the choir
most informed du'ers have been known that for a long time now.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
2. Doesn't it make you just sick at the pit of your stomach?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
3. Welcome to DU, jhuth at work
:hi:
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. all I can say is
if FEMA is in charge, we will be able to break out in no time at all, they are so incompetent - we could pit one subcontractor against the other and confuse the paperwork and have them so bumfumbled, we could flee in broad day light

limbo exists here on earth -- it is the years of bushco and the hopes of life beyond the havoc he has created -- just on the other side, just beyond our reach
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. The thing is, I don't believe they'd bother rounding anyone up.
What matters to them are the contracts -- not the fullfillment or the actual use of these facilities. Look at all the nonrebuilding in Iraq.

:shrug:
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. They couldn't round us all up - gas is too expensive and the
subcontractors don't get paid in a timely fashion and they wouldn't be able to do all the traveling and it would be one great big cluster fuck.
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
43. Yep....Like everything else they try to do..... a Fuckfest !!!
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #12
28. DING DING SF wins again! Same w/ the border "fence".
Edited on Tue Oct-10-06 08:23 AM by elehhhhna
By the time Bush is done raiding the treasury, they won't be able to rent space at a KOA campground.
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Delphinus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. This would be the one thing they get right!!! n/t
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. This has been reported
on and off since shortly after Sept 11, 2001. And while I don't want to gloss over what's happened at Guantanamo and other places, I think stories of massive internment camps being constructed in this country are overblown.

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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Not sure how overblown considering at least four of the largest
have been completed and ready since the 90's.

The human capacity to deny the obvious never ceases to amaze me. The future is here, the time is now.
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Which four?
Where are they?

Again, if you're referring to Gitmo, Abu Ghraib (which was a prison in Saddam's time) and various others overseas, that's not what the original post is about.

Reports of these things have been around for many years. Pre-dating the Bush administration, and are frequently brought up by those who believe the government is no good and is out to get us all. It's what extremist anti-government people, you know, the kind who hole up some where with lots of ammunition, have been saying for a long time.

And so when someone wants to make some vague statement about huge prison camps being build, too many here just believe, rather than thinking critically.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Too early and too busy to look it up right now, but IIRC the biggest is in
Alaska, I've seen one in Nevada (it's huge, 300 - 400 acres at least), Pennsylvania (?), and Arkansas/Missouri area. I'm sure there are many others with the info at hand.

By themselves these camps could be used for any number of things, but that doesn't preclude the FEMA - state of emergency scenario. I'm just saying that the groundwork was laid out in the 80's and we generally don't develop facilities without some need, real or perceived.
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Sigh.
Where in Alaska? Where in Nevada? This all has the feel of urban legend. Again, these stories have been around for decades, literally, and I just don't give them any credence.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. If only there were some way for you to go and look for yourself...
some device, probably electronic in nature, that would enable you to research these things. Maybe there would be some collection of newspapers from the past that were all saved for reference, alas...

The one I've seen is about 20 - 40 miles north north-east of Las Vegas, it was 8 or 9 years ago so that's the best I can do on that one, but I know I've read newspaper articles back in the 80's.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 05:16 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. I may have seen that one
when I was tooling around on my way to St. George, Utah, if it's the same place you are talking about. I saw many 'prison projects' - facilities under construction - in the Southwest during the Summer of 2002, when I drove from San Francisco to New Orleans. :scared:
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converted_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. From here on out, could you do your own research? *sigh*
Edited on Tue Oct-10-06 05:17 AM by converted_democrat
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I'm sure people (myself included) have better things to do than look up info for you.


on edit- Also, look at post #7 on this thread.. It shows a recent press release about contracts given to KBR for dentention centers.



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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. Why should I have to do my own
research, tracking down foolish and unconfirmed rumors. Yes, I took a look at the link to the Truthout site, which it least is more reliable than most.

But it's somewhat interesting that not to long ago it was the right-wing nutcases who were convinced our government was building detention centers, and now it's the left wing nutcases who are so convinced.
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converted_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. It isn't unconfirmed rumor...
Edited on Tue Oct-10-06 09:18 AM by converted_democrat
The detention centers exist, and more are slated (Contracts to KBR were passed out, check KBR press releases, if it's not too much trouble for you.) to be built.. I have issue with people that are too lazy to look up their own info, especially when I know they have the resources to do it. There are nutballs on the left and right, but that has nothing to do with the fact that the centers exist, and KBR was given contract to build more.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #26
39. You might consider that, since you are a woman, a registered Democrat,
a high-count poster on DU (possibly other "subversive" political blogs and BBS), and live in Kansas, it is possible that you will be given a personal, up-close tour from the inside.

But don't worry your head with such foolishness, our government is good and justice reigns, it can never happen here. :think:
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #11
25. Believe it and check this out:
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
24. It's been reported since the Clinton administration.
Back then it was the UN that was comin' ta git all them god-fear'n patriatic militia members.
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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
5. FEMA couldn't pull it head out of its ass during Katrina
If that is a gov't facility, can you say Dead End Job?
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
6. Not this bullshit again.
Is there any right-wing conspiracy theory that people won't post on DU?
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #6
27. You know, I heard a rumor that Bush is trying to get a bill thru congress
that eliminates habeus corpus and make torture legal.

Also, there is a rumor that some of the rationale for the Iraq war may have been exaggerated, or even made up!

No one knows for sure yet but the Bush tax cuts might make the US run at a DEFICIT, impacting the national debt for years to come.

Th real nutty people think the government is engaged in illegal spying of US citizens, that's just CRAZY and could never happen!
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Nordmadr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #27
33. Yeah, that is all just plain crazy talk. We don't torture in the U.S.,
Edited on Tue Oct-10-06 09:42 AM by olafvikingr
echoing the sentiments of Nazi rationalization. We don't stomp on the Constitution. We don't abandon people to die during natural disasters...and we most certainly DO NOT build facilities on the sly for storing large numbers of people, for whatever reason.

Nope, don't do any of those things.

Olafr

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #6
32. The biggest conspiracy is silence and complicity
(such as the new detainee bill and official erasure of habeus corpus).
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Sinti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
7. I wouldn't brush it off out of hand, like many do
but the video is of Amtrak's Beach Grove repair facility. It's a real train repair facility, no need to worry about it.

However, those Halliburton detention centers are very real. They got a $385 million contract from the DoD to build them here in the good old USA.

Plus, there was that curious development in January when the Army Corps of Engineers awarded Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg Brown & Root a $385 million contract to construct detention centers somewhere in the United States, to deal with "an emergency influx of immigrants into the US, or to support the rapid development of new programs," KBR said.


http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/47...

I can't imagine anything good that would require extra "detention" space being developed by any government, let alone this psychotic one. I wouldn't dismiss the potential rounding up and detaining of troublesome Americans out of hand, both Nixon and Reagan had plans for this, they just never went into effect. I'd pay attention and keep my eyes open, but it's best not to become paranoid methinks - it's hard to enjoy life as a paranoid.

Welcome to DU! :toast:
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #7
29. Then try imagining this...

Why not read what it says - "an emergency influx of immigrants into the US".

Doesn't anyone remember what happened when we pulled out of Vietnam?

We closed a lot of the facilities where we housed the tens of thousands of Vietnamese and Laotians that came with us.

The same thing will happen with Iraq. There are a lot of people and their families who are going to come with us.

Whenever we wind down the Iraq operation, we will have an "emergency influx of immigrants".

It happens.
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Sinti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #29
37. I've read what it says in its entirety, thank you.
"an emergency influx of immigrants into the US, or to support the rapid development of new programs,"

You think it's a good idea to build prisons for this purpose... okay, no problem. I don't.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Define "prison" and you are getting somewhere
Edited on Tue Oct-10-06 01:25 PM by jberryhill

We put tens of thousands of Vietnamese refugees into military bases that have the same layout - housing and fences. Can you call it a "prison"? Sure, you can, but that doesn't advance the idea that these are anything other than replacements for the bases we used before, and which are now closed.

http://www.searac.org/vietref.html
As Saigon fell to the communists, some 135,000 Vietnamese fled to America. These were mainly ex-military and government officials, Vietnamese who had worked for the U.S. during the war and their families. Initially, they came to four U.S. military bases in California, Arkansas, Pennsylvania, and Florida.

Here, you tell me if this looks like a "prison":



THAT's what Camp Pendleton looked like when we housed tens of thousands of Vietnamese refugees there.

Iraq is not going to be any different.


Here, try THIS on for size:

http://www.cnn.com/US/9904/07/us.kosovo.refugees /

MIAMI (CNN) -- The U.S. military is "almost immediately" ready to accept the first refugees from Kosovo at the U.S. Naval Base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. A few hundred are expected to arrive Friday.

President Clinton has said the base will house some 20,000 Kosovar refugees temporarily. They will be brought into Guantanamo over the next 45 days.


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Sinti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. They are calling these "detention facilities"
These are not my words. Detention facility is a nice phrase meaning prison. I can't begin to understand why you consider it to mean refugee camp. Why are you putting words in their mouths?

Why the should I expect refugees from a free and democratic nation when we leave? Is that not what Iraq is supposed to be now? Who would the refugees be? What would they be escaping from? Vietnamese folks came here as refugees seeking asylum from the communist government we left behind. The folks that came from Kosovo came temporarily as refugees. Neither of these things has any bearing whatsoever on the building of detention facilities here at home.

Definitions of Detention facility on the Web:

* A generic name proposed in this terminology as a cover term for those facilities which hold juveniles in confinement pending adjudication and in some instances, post-adjudicated juveniles, including facilities called jails, county farms, honor farms, work camps, road camps, detention centers, shelters, juvenile halls, and the like.
www.co.dakota.mn.us/cc/Glossary.htm


Definitions of prison on the Web:

* a correctional institution where persons are confined while on trial or for punishment
* a prisonlike situation; a place of seeming confinement
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

* A prison is a place in which people are confined and deprived of a range of liberties. Prisons conventionally are institutions authorized by governments and forming part of a country's criminal justice system, or as facilities for holding prisoners of war. A prison system is the organizational arrangement of the provision and operation of prisons.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison

* State facilities where persons convicted of the commission of a felony are held. In Missouri, prisons are operated under the direction of the Missouri Department of Corrections.
mova.missouri.org/cjterms.htm
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Who is the the "they" here?

Yes, people are calling them detention facilities.

Define the "they" in your sentence - "They are calling these 'detention facilities'", and if by "they" you mean "the people who are building them or paying to have them built", then please provide a link where "they" are calling them that. I've clicked around a lot of paranoid rantings in which paranoid ranters are the "they" that are "calling them detention facilities", so, absolutely, I have zero doubt and a mountain of evidence that there is a "they" that calls them that, and which believes these facilities are being built to house the 70% of the American public which does not support this president so that, presumably, the remaining 30% of the population can enjoy the Rapture without being disturbed. And, yes, you'll need an entire military chain of command, also composed of US citizens, which is going to be doing this rounding up.

Now, I just cited a report of President Clinton sending 20,000 people to Guantanamo, and you don't find that at all strange? Any significant political instability in Latin America, Cuba, or a withdrawal from our current engagements in Afghanistan and Iraq will inevitably lead to an influx of tens of thousands of refugees and asylum seekers to the US. Knowing that, I ask you - where would YOU put them temporarily until they can be permanently located? This happens all of the time. You'll notice, for example that Fort Chafee Arkansas regularly appears on lists of these "concentration camps" and it just so happens that we have used Fort Chafee, and yes Guantanamo, for this specific purpose in the past.
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Sinti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. That's what Halliburton calls them - how can you know so much
about this, when you haven't even read Halliburton's own press release? This contract is in support of ICE's ENDGAME strategy for getting rid of all the illegals in this country and to "support the rapid development of new programs" - it is not a "refugee camp" building contract. These are Halliburton's own words.

The contract, which is effective immediately, provides for establishing temporary detention and processing capabilities to augment existing ICE Detention and Removal Operations (DRO) Program facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs. The contingency support contract provides for planning and, if required, initiation of specific engineering, construction and logistics support tasks to establish, operate and maintain one or more expansion facilities.

The contract may also provide migrant detention support to other U.S. Government organizations in the event of an immigration emergency, as well as the development of a plan to react to a national emergency, such as a natural disaster. In the event of a natural disaster, the contractor could be tasked with providing housing for ICE personnel performing law enforcement functions in support of relief efforts.


http://www.halliburton.com/default/main/halliburton/eng...

You are more than welcome to call me a paranoid ranter if it makes you happy - but, you are now putting words in my mouth, and that I don't appreciate one bit. I stated that Both Reagan and Nixon had plans to round up Americans. This is a truth. With Nixon it was "militant blacks" with Reagan Latinos. They never went into effect - this is what I stated in my response to the OP - so I wouldn't become paranoid out about it. Keeping an eye out for a new plan to round up whatever subgroup of Americans isn't paranoid, it's being aware. What part of that did you miss?

I never mentioned "Concentration Camps". Did I post a list of concentration camps? No. The "concentration camp" lists and this contract have nothing to do with one another. Most of those "concentration camps" are been checked out by regular folks and amount to nothing, they are things such as the AMTRAK facility. No, you wouldn't need the "entire military chain of command" to round troublesome folks up, you'd need Dyncorp or Blackwater, as it wouldn't be the whole 70 percent, just the selected few - but I NEVER STATED THAT WAS THE INTENT of the detention facilities. I said I'd keep my eyes open.

I remember the Kosovo War - I did a lot of work re: the war in Kosovo. They were here temporarily as refugees. We already discussed this. There was a fuss about the quality of their lodging, that is all. War over, they went home.


Again, please tell me why a "withdrawal from our current engagements in Afghanistan and Iraq will inevitably lead to an influx of tens of thousands of refugees and asylum seekers to the US." Will they be running away from the democratic governments we set up for them? If so, WHY WOULD THEY RUN TO US? Unless you can tell me why, I'm going to put this into the "because your imagination says so" file.

In future please DO NOT put words my mouth, as I find it highly offensive. You will find most people find are quite put out when you do this.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. Because it happens every time...

Again, please tell me why a "withdrawal from our current engagements in Afghanistan and Iraq will inevitably lead to an influx of tens of thousands of refugees and asylum seekers to the US." Will they be running away from the democratic governments we set up for them? If so, WHY WOULD THEY RUN TO US?

We will withdraw. Those regions will descend into chaos. And we will have tens of thousands of people coming in. Actually, no matter what the result of these adventures, we will have tens of thousands of people coming in. It is the inevitable result of foreign engagements. Yes, we set up democratic governments in Europe after WWII as well, and we STILL had tens of thousands of emergency immigrants (speaking as the son of a war bride here). I'm sorry you don't understand that. Go try to figure out how and why we took in 700K Vietnamese and Laotians in the 70's. Look at the Mariel boatlift from Cuba. Look at Bill Clinton bringing 20K Kosovars to Guantanamo.


I remember the Kosovo War - I did a lot of work re: the war in Kosovo. They were here temporarily as refugees. We already discussed this. There was a fuss about the quality of their lodging, that is all


Okay, then this is the key semantic question - Were they free to leave their "lodging" or not? If your answer is "no" then they were being detained, just as all of those other folks that we have taken in as the inexorable consequence of every single foreign entanglement we have ever engaged in.

Already, the Iraqis that do any work for the US or have any incidental contact with the US in the Green Zone have to hide that fact from their neighbors outside of the Green Zone. When we leave, every one of them and all of their relatives is coming with us. We will need places to put them - just as stated in the documents you cite:


provides for establishing temporary detention and processing capabilities to augment existing ICE Detention and Removal Operations (DRO) Program facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs


"establishing temporary detention and processing capablities" - i.e. temporary detention and processing - "to augment existing ICE Detention and Removal Operations (DRO) Program facilities" - i.e. we don't have enough space and need to augment it - "in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants" - i.e. in case a shitload of folks show up, which can have any number of reasons (withdrawal, regional political instability (Cuba, Latin America, etc.) - "or to support the rapid development of new programs" - i.e. or whatever else we might need them for.

Sure, you can read whatever you want in the last clause, but we had a lot of problems dealing with the Mariel boatlift, and we were sticking people into scattered available prison space and all sorts of inappropriate places.

Blackwater security is not going to go riding around among the heavily armed US population and rounding up the 70% of people who do not support this president. It's just absurd. Just how many Blackwater mercs do you think there are, and how many people do you suppose that number of mercs is going to round up and detain?
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Sinti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Please read Halliburton's press release.
These things are being built for ICE's ENDGAME plan - it is their policy to remove every single illegal immigrant from this country by a certain date. If Halliburton says that's what they're being built for, why are you making this "refugee camp" stuff up?

Your "war bride" parent may have been kept in a detention facility, but most are not. Marrying an American automatically gets you into the country with a green card, at least it used to. Either way, They Have Nothing To Do With Each Other. Read the press release - it's for ICE DRO - Immigration and Customs Enforcement Detention and Removal

Blackwater security is not going to go riding around among the heavily armed US population and rounding up the 70% of people who do not support this president.

I agree, unfortunately your reading comprehension is faulty. I said it would be a select few if it happened at all.

We will withdraw. Those regions will descend into chaos.

What, without us there they can't possibly hold up? Anarchy will ensue, and everyone will want to come to America to be saved? WTF?

Go try to figure out how and why we took in 700K Vietnamese and Laotians in the 70's. Look at the Mariel boatlift from Cuba. Look at Bill Clinton bringing 20K Kosovars to Guantanamo.

We talked about this - remember, asylum seekers running from a communist regime, and Temporary refugees.

Read the press release please, they state precisely what the contract is for in the press release.


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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. I read it very carefully, dude

...and the words "to augment existing ICE Detention and Removal Operations (DRO) Program facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants" obviously don't strike me the same way they strike you.

The notion that a response to "an emergency influx of immigrants" is to round them up in camps and deport them makes no sense to me, since you can usually see thousands of people coming en masse and stop them before they get here. Indeed, that's what precisely what we do with Cubans and Haitians as long as they don't hit dry land.


What, without us there they can't possibly hold up? Anarchy will ensue, and everyone will want to come to America to be saved? WTF?


There sure as heck are going to be those who don't want to stay, and to whom we have obligations. Just WHY do you think we wound up taking in nearly a million Vietnamese. And, temporary or not, when you have 20,000 Kosovars coming to dinner then, yeah, you're going to need a few chairs. To deal with "a select few", you don't need much space.

It's absurd that you are perfectly fine with Clinton sending 20K Kosovars to Guantanamo, and have some religious objection to being able to respond to similar exigencies in North America.

Take a tour of the Ellis Island detention camp sometime.




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Sinti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. The "round them up and deport them" is ICE policy - I'm not pulling that
out of my hat. The policy plan is called ENDGAME... there's a PDF somewhere on their Web site. It's a perfectly logical step, ICE intent is to deport them all (every single one they say), Halliburton builds detention centers - 1+1=2.

I have no religious objection to illegal immigrant detention facilities, actually.

If done properly chaos should not ensue when we leave either Afghanistan or Iraq. Again, we took in Vietnamese refugees requesting ASYLUM, running from the communists we left behind.

I stand by my original point:

I wouldn't dismiss the potential rounding up and detaining of troublesome Americans out of hand, both Nixon and Reagan had plans for this, they just never went into effect. I'd pay attention and keep my eyes open, but it's best not to become paranoid methinks - it's hard to enjoy life as a paranoid.

Why you have such a problem with this statement is beyond me. Awareness is good, keep your eyes open for crazy stuff the government thinks about - they've thought up a lot of crazy stuff in the past. Paranoia is bad, don't be paranoid. This statement bothers you - that's Your Problem. Have a nice day.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
30. There's better video of the amtrak facility
Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P-hvPJPTi4&NR

I was on your wavelength, but now I'm not so sure.

-Hoot
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jrandom421 Donating Member (367 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
9. Interesting
My father, an internee during WW2, is wondering why, as a cost cutting measure, Manzanar isn't being reopened? :)
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madmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
14. Colonel Oliver North assisted FEMA
MARTIAL LAW CONCERNS
House of Representatives - March 11, 2003

Madam Speaker, I come to the House floor tonight to talk about an issue which I think is of grave concern to this country.

I recently read an article published in the Sydney, Australia, Morning Herald entitled ``Foundations Are in Place for Martial Law in the United States.''

The author is a man named Ritt Goldstein, an investigative reporter for the Herald, and he said that recent pronouncements from the Bush administration and national security initiatives put in place in the Reagan era could see internment camps and martial law in the United States.

When President Ronald Reagan was considering invading Nicaragua, he issued a series of executive orders which provided FEMA with broad powers in the event of a crisis, such as the violent and widespread internal dissent or national opposition against a U.S. military invasion abroad. They were never used.

But with the looming possibility of a U.S. invasion of Iraq, recent pronouncements by President Bush's domestic security chief, Tom Ridge, and an official with the Civil Rights Commission should fire concerns that these powers could be employed or a de facto drift into their deployment in the future.

On the 20th of July, the Detroit Free Press ran a story entitled ``Arabs in U.S. Could Be Held, Official Warns.'' The story referred to a member of the Civil Rights Commission who foresaw the possibility of internment camps for Arab Americans. FEMA has practiced for such an occasion.

FEMA, whose main role is disaster response, is also responsible for handling U.S. domestic unrest.

From 1982 to 1984, Colonel Oliver North assisted FEMA in drafting its civil defense preparations. Details of those plans emerged during the 1987 Iran-Contra scandal. They included executive orders providing for suspension of the Constitution, the imposition of martial law, internment camps, and the turning over of government to the President and FEMA.

http://www.house.gov/mcdermott/sp030311.shtml
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. Lindsay Graham's references to "Fifth Columns" in the US concern me...
... primarily since Graham is making no bones about it, that the so-called 'Fifth Column' in this country would be made up of Americans, and he is talking about detaining and imprisoning them in a military context. That means that someone would be making the decision that Americans are engaged in 'military opposition', and could be classified as enemy combatants. That is where the new torture law kicks in and habeas corpus rights disappear.

Don't know about Halliburton constructing detention centers, which have been funded. But I am reminded that most Americans at the time had no problem with the Japanese Internment Camps during WWII.

It could happen again. Especially at a time when our constitutional rights have been seriously impaired, and those who oppose our politics could use their power to shut out our dissent.
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Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
16. American Prison Camps Have Always Been With Us




The Labor of Doing Time

Julie Browne
Slavery is being practiced by the system under the color of law.... Slavery 400 years ago, slavery today; it's the same thing, but with a new name. They're making millions and millions of dollars enslaving blacks, poor whites, and others--people who don't even know they're being railroaded.


--Political Prisoner Ruchell Magee <1>

The New Chain Gang
Since the first chain gangs were sent to work in Alabama in 1995, several other states have responded positively to the idea, and Arizona has already begun modeling the program in their own prisons. The chain gang system in Alabama not only forces prisoners to work to pay for their own imprisonment, but also establishes convict labor as a form of punishment. The 400 medium-security convicts on the chain gang, often convicted of theft or bouncing checks, are assigned to work for a 30-day period. If they receive negative reports during these 30 days, they can be assigned another 30 days. There is no limit to the amount of time a convict can be forced to remain on the chain gang if he is perceived to be disobeying the rules, regulations, or "the orders of the staff."<28> Beyond the terror of working at gunpoint for twelve hours a day, performing hard labor while constantly chained to five other men, the chain gang system in Alabama grants an extremely dangerous excess of power to the guards who can, at their own discretion, extend the duration of the prisoners' punishment.

http://www.prisonactivist.org/crisis/labor-of-doing-tim...
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
34. I don't doubt this for a minute...BUT...
Are they going to round up 70-80% of the population then? Because that's more than likely the actual amount of the population that doesn't approve of *.

BTW-It is this thought that keeps me from freaking out too too much since the torture bill-although who knows with * & Co? :scared:
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tex-wyo-dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. nah...they won't detain EVERYONE who
Opposes *, just the few percentages who are the most outspoken and active...they are the greatest threat to the regime.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. Yes, the sheep are easily frightened into submission, after all they
are sheep, and have been well conditioned to blind obedience. So a few thousand "dissidents" disappearing into the scary Homeland Security system, will ensure their cooperation.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
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