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If you think God almighty put bush in the white house, maybe you're stupid

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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:25 AM
Original message
If you think God almighty put bush in the white house, maybe you're stupid
My own little brother voted for bush TWICE, now he regrets it. He told me the reason was God put him in the white house at this time to save America, and he believed it too. Now he is shattered, because his very own 30 year old daughter is going into the belly of the beast in Iraq.

She was convinced by her mother to join the army in the Holy fight against the Godless heathens on the other side of the world, unbelievable but true. A fight ensued between the parents, but my niece is determined to fight the heathens, and my brother regrets voting for bush TWICE.

To this day people call cspan and still say that God put w in the white house, and when I spoke to my brother about all his pain I couldn't help but suggest that maybe he was stupid. Made stupid voluntarily mind you, he's been a bornagain for 35 years now, raised his kids as bornagains, home schooled them, and he drags a big wooden cross down Bourbon street for mardi gras.

Maybe God does a lot of things that don't quite make sense, they say he moves in mysterious ways, but if you think that the creator of all things picked THIS APE to lead us, maybe God is not too bright, and maybe he hates our guts, or, maybe you're stupid.
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Kutjara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. Or maybe God isn't what people think It is.
Could be we've had God and Satan mixed up all this time. Human history looks like a serious case of betting on the wrong side.
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pooja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I'm pretty sure Chavez was on to something here... Beware my
children for the wolves will wear sheep clothing and will lead you astray for slaughter.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Chavez was right when he called Bush the devil.
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #11
27. I've called him worse than that.
Despite his overly moderate tone, I agree with Chavez.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
2. I Sympathize With Your Anguish Over Your Family
got most of my own in that same boat--want to protect them from themselves, but simply can't.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
3. WHEN will these people realize that Christ was a man of PEACE?
It's not Christ that pushes the race-hate and the warmongering -- it's the damned preachers and others who crave power and money!

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BeyondThePale Donating Member (895 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. When will they realize that Christ was a...
fairy tale concocted by men
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pooja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. I suppose I am Snow White then, or whatever character you pick.
Read past the men and look at the message, and the language is universal for all people's... Walk in the footprints and you will find true salvation for it is in the peace of humanity and the love of your hearts that will save this earth, and there will be heaven on earth.
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BeyondThePale Donating Member (895 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #12
29. Why do you need the myth? Isn't the reality of the world enough?
Why deny the earth for "pie in the sky, by and by"

Furthermore, you cannot look past the men to the message, because the men "made up" the message and the men "use" the message for their own ends.

Sorry to burst your bubble. People kick addictions to substances, they can kick "addictions" to religion
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Why are you attacking someone
who is arguing against the same zealotry you are? They say "Jesus was a man of peace" and you just couldn't bite your lip about it? Way to keep your priorities in order, dude.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:34 AM
Response to Original message
5. People always get in trouble when they think they know
what god is or wants or thinks or says. God is the personification of great unknowable and should be left alone to do his or her thing. Mankind someday may reocgnize that the rules they make are the creation of mere mortals sustaining a hierarchy in the great human herd. Magical thinking always get people in trouble.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:37 AM
Response to Original message
6. Maybe Gawd and Dumbya are drinkin' buddies!
That is the only answer I can come up with, unless maybe Gawd has fallen from grace and directly into crack whoredom.

Maybe Bush just fooled Gawd!
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:37 AM
Response to Original message
7. I think this is the way to counter these people...
Edited on Mon Oct-09-06 06:41 AM by hlthe2b
Ask them why would God choose someone as obviously stupid as Bush* to put in the WH? Wouldn't God WANT the person they choose to "do their will" to be effective? Would God not endow that person with all the attributes to be effective? (Let alone the fact that God would surely want someone to promote peace and good will)...



My best wishes for the safety and well being of your niece... This is a tough situation and I'm sorry for your family's anguish...
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VeggieTart Donating Member (698 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:50 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. I think of a quote at times like this...
I can't remember who said it, but it went something like, I always distrust those who say they're doing what God wants because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.

And I would remind your brother that the Iraqis are NOT godless heathens. Many of them just worship differently.
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personman Donating Member (959 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
30. Susan B. Anthony
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires."
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #30
38. She was a wise woman
:thumbsup:
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
8. As if..
.... god would send a BOY to do a MAN's job. As if god needs any of us to carry out his will.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. LOL Of course God has done precisely that in the OT
David and Goliath.

God often send the weak to defeat the strong; The meek to confound the proud, the simple to confound the wise.


]
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
13. Scripture say that God ordains government
At the time of the writing of the Scriptures (both the OT and the NT)the idea of democracy and voting really had not taken hold outside of the Gentile world. If you read the OT as History. you will see that God did not even want Israel to have a monarchy let alone and elected government.

The wingnuts want it both ways. Democracy is God's preferred form of government but they do not believe in pluralism. Huh?

They also will tell you that it God's decision to put Bush in office (never mind the nuisance issue of Free will and the right to vote) but will defend their view that Bill Clinton was the devil and anything that they did to get him out of office (even though God apparently ordained his election twice) is a wholly legitimate course of action. Huh?


The big problem is that the whole "God Ordains Government" thing is that it gets taken out of context. We can not take that which was meant for either post-exilic Israel (effectively a nation with neither law or land) or Roman-dominated Judea and apply it to the US. That is what the Dominionists do.

God neither hates us, Nor is He stupid. Calling the people who believe in Him "stupid" is pretty incendiary.
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Hav Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
14. .
Wow...what kind of mother convinces her child to go to war to fight against the Godless? This is the 21 century, right?
If I had kids, I'd do everything to keep them out of a war, especially such a mess like Iraq.
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left is right Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
15. I am sorry that your brother is hurting
While you may be reluctant to make this seem like an "I told you so" moment there really is something that he needs to hear and maybe you can find away to tell him.
First, God is never honored by a lie. The fact that so many lies have been told by this administration is proof positive that Bush does not serve God.
Second, God does call specific men to serve their country or the world at specific times but every one of these called servants develop the same characteristics, they become holy and they become humble and they actually accomplish great things. I am thinking of people like Lincoln, Oskar Schindler and the drunken-lawyer Baldwin that defended the slaves charged with murder on that ship (sorry the name of the ship escapes me, at the moment.) Bush does not have any of these qualities.
And finally, God does use evil men to punish rather than bless a people. Examples would be all but a handful of the Old Testament kings. And when He does send these evil persons as punishment the nation under judgment share the same characteristics--greed, lack of humility, disdain for justice and the poor and an "ends justify the means" mentality. Look at our criminal justice system, Katrina and the fact that we as a nation are perfectly willing to destroy the ecology in the name of corporate profits.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Well said. (EOM)
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #15
33. Good points.
I'm not sure about God using * to punish us (though that makes more sense than him being a holy ruler!), but you make really good points and I hope the OP relays them to their brother.
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
18. Are "godless heathens" ALL Muslims to your sister-in-law & niece?
Edited on Mon Oct-09-06 07:33 AM by Divernan
Because, if that's how your niece views ALL Muslims, god help any Iraqi civilians she is in a position to harm. Most born-again, home-schooled women are raised & "educated" with the goal of being married with children by age 30, so she probably has a lot of anger and resentment about that issue, which will be displaced against all those godless heathen women who ARE married with children. I hope you are not going to tell me that she does have a husband and kids she's left behind.
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. she's 30 and single
she worked for a time in a women's prison and used to write me about how she got to beat up the prisoners. then she wrote me and said that she wanted to be in army intelligence.

my blood ran cold.
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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #19
36. I pray for your family
Edited on Tue Oct-10-06 02:22 AM by Withywindle
in my Pagan way, that is, if you think they won't mind.

But THIS post made my blood run cold. IF there is such a thing as Satan--who I do NOT believe in as an independent supernatural entity--I do believe if he would be real, the true home of evil is in the (inexplicable but undeniably present) desire humans have to hurt others.

We all have it in one way or another. None of us are saints. But it seems to me the core tenents of so many religions at their core and at their best, as well as atheist and non-theist ethical thought, seems to me to be: how can we do our part to stop the cycle of hurt and violence and selfishness? To me, true hope starts within each person whenever s/he says: It stops here. Now.
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left is right Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. I read somewhere
that Iraq had one of the largest Christian populations in all of the ME. They also had greater autonomy over conducting their faith than Christians in other ME countries. As I understand it, these Christians have suffered greatly since the fall of Saddam
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
21. LOL! I made that bumper sticker months ago...


.
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tpsbmam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
22. An opportunity to learn vs. shutting down
Though I tend to agree with you about the "stupid" part when it comes to following along mindlessly, this is a great opportunity for your brother to learn and keep those lessons with him in the future. Calling people names (as much as I want to sometimes) leads them to shutting down and cease listening. It leads to defensiveness and often becoming more entrenched in their positions rather than opening themselves up to debate and, sometimes to my surprise, coming around to understand and (partly) accept the position of others.

I consider faith a matter of heart more than mind. From that perspective, it's a great opportunity for your bother to learn to separate the two. Faith doesn't mean that you give up your power of reason, logic or inquisitiveness. It doesn't mean that you follow blindly. It means that you believe in God, not in the false prophets who tell you that they know what God wants him to believe.

If he believes that he was made by God, then he should believe that God made his brain and the powers listed above for a reason, and that reason wasn't to disavow them.

This comes from an atheist, but one who respects the religious beliefs of others (who, I note, frequently don't return the respect). His faith can guide him into learning that God created humans with an evolutionarily (sorry...dirty word) sophisticated brain for a reason and he can now start honoring that by learning the truth about Bush and his regime, rather than following blindly the lies of the religious right and their political agenda.
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
23. I told my RW fundie mom that gawd wanted Gore to be pres...
devil wanted his guy and got Katharine Harris to help out. Pisses her off. :evilgrin:
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
24. I have a Christian co-worker with three teenage children.
He voted for bush twice, falling for his 'man of god' speak. He admits now that it was a huge mistake & can't believe he fell for it. That excuse might have flown in '00 when few knew much about jr., but by '04 it was evident that boosh is a self-righteous, mean, little man -- anything but a Christian.

I believe my co-worker is waking up to what a decades long war may actually cost him. :cry:

I hope with all my heart that your niece returns home safely. :hug:
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pansypoo53219 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
25. not stupid.
gullible and fooled by georgie's 'god' talk.
i find that the hyper religious-heavy on old testement, light on jesus talk-are highly gullible.
my brother is a dittohead bush voter, although he admits georgie is an idiot.
i read a lot of mysteries as a kid. and as i got older. so i think we neeeeeeeed to teach critical thinking skills.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
26. STUPID PEOPLE put W in the White House, NOT God...
...and that is the moral of that story. Pls don't blame 'God' for the stupidity of humans.
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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
28. Not stupid brainwashed
This bullshit didn't start in 2001.Bushco started their preparations for this decades ago.One of the opening moves in their grand plan occurred in the early eighties when they took over the Southern Baptist Convention.This,followed by buying up control of the media,was no mere happenstance.It was done to give them control of the two largest means of shaping peoples outlook on national and global affairs.

And it has worked.

So,NO,Your family isn't stupid.They have just been indoctrinated and brainwashed by a carefully calculated,systematic plan created by a group of war criminals for just this purpose.


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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
31. I'm convinced 9/11 cause mass hysteria in America...
and perhaps people are starting to wake from it. There seems to have been a huge run to churches, to safety, to Bush as the protector (what a joke, I know), since 9/11. I think the GOP and many of the politically connected churches have spurred this on, as well. I honestly think that the horror of 9/11 AND the relentless sensationalization of the attack screwed a lot of people up. And many people "came to jesus" as they say. I think that now the shock of the attacks are mellowing, people are returning to normal. While some people voted for Bush before 9/11 because they thought he was going to restore dignity (ha!) in the White House, and be a "godly" man, they were joined by others because of 9/11, and the folks that originally supported him felt compelled to support him further.

The ribbon on the turd is loosening, and all we're seeing is a steaming pile of republican shit.

As far as your brother goes, if you can believe this, a guy is running for a State Rep position here in Washington, and he believes that he is a prophet, he has dragged crossed down the middle of the street in Port Orchard, Washington, has written that Clinton and Hitler are the same, and that the death of Princess Diana was not a tragedy or worthy of grief because she was "an adulterer in God's eyes".

God did not put Bush in office, unless God exists and really hates us.
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
34. Philosoraptor...
I'm very sorry to hear that your neice is over there, fighting. :hug: I sincerely hope that she comes home safe.

I don't believe your brother is stupid. He, like many just need to believe in something and someone bigger than themselves. Unfortunately, people like him also seem to need to believ that someone else is "less than" they are, and that "those people" are going to rob them of their rights, their way of life, their safety, etc. A guy like *, a guy that's been very vocal about certain groups being godless and somehow underserving of rights comforts people like that. The Rove spin machine worked on your brother--twice.

It sounds like your brother is more fearful than he is stupid.

Anyone that truly believes in God or Christ knows that he(Christ) did not teach fear. He taught faith and charity and love--not hate. I believe that is why we have some true Christians in our midst--they know the difference and were not fooled by junior or his scary tales, or his "man of god" crap. A true man of god wouldn't need to scare everyone to death, or paint anyone as the enemy or deny others of equal rights.

I wish that your brother didn't have to learn his lesson this way and hope that your niece comes home...soon and safe.

best,
bliss :hi:
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ManyHamsters Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. bliss_eternal
I do appreciate your stance. I do indeed know of Christians who have far too much sense than to vote for the Conservatives (Canadian equivalent of the Republicans), despite all the propoganda thrown forth... my mom is one of them. She is a "New Testament(er)", she believes that the old one was full of hate, irrationalities and contradicted the words and ideas of Jesus himself.

Now I am an agnostic myself, but I appreciate those who want to believe in something better than themselves, and don't feel the need to step on others to do so. Her faith is inspiring to me.

:)

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Irreverend IX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 02:19 AM
Response to Original message
35. Sometimes you just have to thin the herd.
If someone believes that Bush is on a holy crusade and it's their Godly duty to die a horrible death in the sandbox, I'm not going to stop them.
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PhilYerHead Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 02:31 AM
Response to Original message
39. Peace, you just said it all, Thank you n/t
The criminals are in control. Be Afraid. They are really not nice people. They kill.
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