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Newsweek: Did the US Provoke N. Korea? (must read!)

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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:33 AM
Original message
Newsweek: Did the US Provoke N. Korea? (must read!)
Edited on Mon Oct-09-06 12:34 AM by cynatnite
Oct. 16, 2006 issue - On Sept. 19, 2005, North Korea signed a widely heralded denuclearization agreement with the United States, China, Russia, Japan and South Korea. Pyongyang pledged to "abandon all nuclear weapons and existing nuclear programs." In return, Washington agreed that the United States and North Korea would "respect each other's sovereignty, exist peacefully together and take steps to normalize their relations."

Four days later, the U.S. Treasury Department imposed sweeping financial sanctions against North Korea designed to cut off the country's access to the international banking system, branding it a "criminal state" guilty of counterfeiting, money laundering and trafficking in weapons of mass destruction.

The Bush administration says that this sequence of events was a coincidence. Whatever the truth, I found on a recent trip to Pyongyang that North Korean leaders view the financial sanctions as the cutting edge of a calculated effort by dominant elements in the administration to undercut the Sept. 19 accord, squeeze the Kim Jong Il regime and eventually force its collapse.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15175633/site/newsweek /

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Phredicles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. Through the second half of the '90s, we hand an agreement with
NKorea that at least appeared to have a decent chance of holding. But since the agreement was the product of Clinton, Carter, and Albright, The Decider naturally decided that it couldn't possibly be any good. And now look where we are. :nuke:

It's time we renamed Iraq, Iran, and NKorea the Axis of Failure.
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Sometimes it feels like the little asshole...
did all of this just to undo the previous administration's work. :grr: Geez, what a spoiled brat.
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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
3. problem is:
Edited on Mon Oct-09-06 01:00 AM by rumpel
Japan is freaking out, and unfortunately Abe is now Prime Minister

In fact, when NK announced of this test a few days ago, NHK the quasi-government TV station reported it as "if the US does not talk to them directly". certainly very different from here.

Now, Japan may push to change their constitution which would be a disaster

Here is NHK
http://www.nhk.or.jp/english /
Chief Cabinet Secretary Shiozaki calls N.Korean nuke test a serious threat

This is what the 2 main papers in Japan are reporting as of the moment

Asahi Shinbun (left leaning)

North Korea's show of defiance will likely have a major effect on national defense debate in Japan with calls to expand the missile defense system over Japan or for the government to reserve the right to stage pre-emptive strikes.(IHT/Asahi: October 9,2006)

http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-asahi/TKY2006100901...

Yomiuri (right leaning)
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/world/20061009dy01.htm

Now, instead of talking blah blah on TV everyday did bush & Co. in fact just pay lip service? Read here:

Japan, U.S. united on N. Korea
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/world/20061005TDY01002.htm

on edit: bush & Co totally incompetent, yet again!
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I don't think that Constitution change would be as drastic as you think
It would keep the self-defense aspect, but it would permit regional slapdowns in the face of clear sabre-rattling. It would also take the gloves off for Japan to make a few nukes to keep handy if they so desired (and they just might do that, Hiroshima and Nagasaki notwithstanding--they've got the materials--ten tons of plutonium--already).

If they assume responsibility for regional defense, that would pave the way for a reduction of US forces in Japan--the reason we are there is because we've assumed responsibility for regional protection following WW2--we do the fightin' so they don't have to!! If they could do it themselves, we'd be able to slash our troop levels there to send them to Eye-rack. Gee, how swell!!

The challenge to the Japanese is how seriously they'll take that Constitutional aspect of self-defense. If they start remilitarizing, it could change the Asian dynamic in a big way....
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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 02:38 AM
Original message
double post-self delete
Edited on Mon Oct-09-06 02:41 AM by rumpel
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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. yes, it will be a difficult debate
Edited on Mon Oct-09-06 02:39 AM by rumpel
the ultra-right has always pushed for the change and the general public does not agree. The Nationalists want the "foreigners' out of Japan.

The Japanese Constitution expressly forbids the country to "engage in conflict". That is why it was also such a big deal for Japan to send the troops to Iraq. This was done only under the cover of "humanitarian support". They were not allowed to engage in conflict in Iraq and had other "coalition" troops protect them.

The US did not trust Japan to have offensive powers in 1945, and installed this Constitution, and people were happy with that. Who wants another A-bomb.

The debate the past few years has been to amend or repeal the section so they can freely engage in conflict. Now, when Asahi reports and even speaks of a "pre-emptive strike", that, to me, brings it to another level and this is in fact new.

The neighbors are not particularly amiable towards Japan, and this feeling is deeply entrenched to this day. So, I agree - Japan has to be very careful and a common sense US would be in a position to advise, but not this administration.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Japan should be freaking out after what they did to the Koreans...
...during WW II. Lot of bad blood here.

Don
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:30 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. South Korea and Japan seem to get along fine. They may not like each
other, but they don't threaten each other either. From my years in the Philippines, I know that there was a lot of bad blood there against the Japanese in the sixties and seventies, but not nearly as much not. Time and the change of generations tends to heal these wounds.

The healing does not happen in countries, e.g. China and North Korea, where the governments constantly stoke old resentments to deflect public attention away form their own dictatorial shortcomings.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. South Korea Warns Japan's Abe Not to Visit War Shrine
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=aVp...

Oct. 2 (Bloomberg) -- South Korea warned Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and his senior government officials not to visit a Tokyo war shrine as the nations' leaders plan their first meeting in almost a year.

Abe, who took over as Japan's leader Sept. 26, and South Korean President Roh Moo Hyun, are working to set a date for a meeting. Abe will visit China and South Korea, the nation's two biggest trading partners, this month, said a foreign ministry official who declined to be identified.

Former Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi's annual visits to Tokyo's Yasukuni Shrine, which includes 14 Japanese leaders convicted of war crimes last century among the dead it honors, have angered Asian countries. Abe said in parliament today he wouldn't comment on whether he will go to the shrine.

``We hope and we urge the Japanese leaders, particularly Prime Minister Abe, will not visit Yasukuni shrine,'' South Korean Foreign Minister Ban Ki Moon said in an interview Sept. 30. ``I hope that he has learnt the lessons from his predecessor Prime Minister Koizumi what has transpired between and among the countries in the region because of his visits to Yasukuni shrine.''

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texasleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
4. Republicans want a "dangerous" world
it is as simple as that.
They know that no country would be foolish enough to attack us. The Bush government knows that it can throw its weight around with no real consequence.
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solara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. No Consequence? Perhaps in his lack-wit mind that's true.
But, I am sure it is obvious to the world as well as to a growing majority of voters, that this is yet another example of Dubya's inability to lead, not to mention one of his more frightening screw ups

:bounce:
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Welcome to DU
:hi:
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
12. This is a job for...
Edited on Mon Oct-09-06 07:52 AM by Tesha


Let's see:

o Afghanistan -- No nuclear weapons. Bush invades, deposes leaders, destroys country.

o Iraq -- No nuclear weapons. Bush invades, deposes leaders, destroys country.

o Israel -- Lots of nukes. We kiss their ass constantly.

o Pakistan -- Some nukes. Even though they play host to our favorite
terrorist bogeyman, we do nothing against them.

o N. Korea -- No nukes yet (back a few years), but near completion, and plenty
of capability to attack Japan using medium-range missiles. Bush blathers a lot,
but doesn't attack.

If *YOU* were North Korea facing Bush, wouldn't *YOU* finish developing
those nasty boy nukes just as fast as you can?

Now, can we/dare we follow this logic into the case of Iran???

Tesha
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mainegreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
13. Of course N Korea is guilty of massive counterfeiting of US Currency.
Hell, they might be printing more than the federal reserve currently is.

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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. ...and that is our fault...
The $100 bill is the most counterfeited bill abroad, yet the Treasury has placed the redesign of this bill DEAD LAST. Could it be that our treasury really wants all those counterfeit $100's to circulate for war financing, then invalidate them at a later date? If the Treasury were serious about counterfeiting, they would have redesigned the $100 a long time ago.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. Starting fights everywhere.
Well, Hitler's second front spelled his end. And this is Bush's third.
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