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Jamnt Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:32 PM
Original message
Bush: Let's change course....LOL
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2393750,00...

America ponders cutting Iraq in three
Sarah Baxter, Washington
AN independent commission set up by Congress with the approval of President George W Bush may recommend carving up Iraq into three highly autonomous regions, according to well informed sources.

The Iraq Study Group, co-chaired by James Baker, the former US secretary of state, is preparing to report after next months congressional elections amid signs that sectarian violence and attacks on coalition forces are spiralling out of control. The conflict is claiming the lives of 100 civilians a day and bombings have reached record levels.

The Baker commission has grown increasingly interested in the idea of splitting the Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish regions of Iraq as the only alternative to what Baker calls cutting and running or staying the course.

The Kurds already effectively have their own area, said a source close to the group. The federalisation of Iraq is going to take place one way or another. The challenge for the Iraqis is how to work that through.

And just how the FUCK do the divide Bagdad into three? Or even two... Let's flip a fuckin coin...
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. This was the plan going in to the invasion. I saw them drawn up.
I actually saw the drawn plans in a conference room at Purvin&Gates, Houston. Courtesy of Mr Blake Eskew.

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Kutjara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. We could rename it 'Berlin' and build a wall.
Sounds like BushCo are getting ready to implement some good old fashioned Khruschev-era policies.
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. Well, we have the butcher, the Baker, the quagmire maker...
but who is which? What a god-awful fucking mess.
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John Gauger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. Good, that's what we should do
The borders of Iraq where drawn up in 1924 with civil war in mind. The rationale was, if they are shooting at each other, they can't shoot at British troops. Didn't work then and doesn't work now. We should draw up borders with preventing civil wars in mind.
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. That was then, this is now with OIL in the mix.
There's the rub.
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. See my reply #1.
Purvin&Gates, Houston, were the architects of this plan.
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. I don't doubt that at all however I'm not familiar with that firm.
Were they connected to Baker & Botts? It's hard to keep up without a scorecard, ya know...
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Oh, yeah, they are connected to the max. nt
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John Gauger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. No, the reason Britain was in Iraq was because of the oil
In 1924, Winston Churchill, along with British Petroleum and Royal Dutch Shell, drew up the borders with the oil in mind. That's why they wanted a civil war. They wanted to focus on the oil while the Arabs and Kurds focused on killing each other. Plus he wanted to make sure that the Iraq-Turky border ran exactly through the middle of Kurdistan, because the Kurds are so dangerous. Had to keep them seperated.
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Thickasabrick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. We shouldn't do shit - I think we have done enough. This really
isn't our country to divide up like this.
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. Turkey will not accept an independant Kurd nation
at their border.
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Neither will the Sunni 'stuck in the middle'...
:eyes:
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John Gauger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. That's because they are afraid.
With good reason. The Kurds are pretty fucking dangerous. If they are unified, they will fuck up anybody who tries to fuck with their shit. For over a thousand years, they have been a thorn in the side of empire-builers. Saladin was a Kurd.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
7. President Humpty Dumpty has no plan...
This is the plan that will naturally occur...just as it did in Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, and the Soviet Union..


People held together by a despot, almost always "seek their own level".. Sometimes they manage it peacefully, and sometimes...not..

Only another despot, willing to rule with an iron fist, can prevent it..
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Thickasabrick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
8. The way things are going, noone will be left in Bagdad...except
the dead bodies in the river.
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jseankil Donating Member (604 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
10. Finally some NEW ideas being brought forward
Because the course we are on now is not working. After Nov. elections if the the Dems take over expect more debate and other solutions to the Iraqi quagmire, if the Republicans maintain contol expect more of the same.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
11. Iraq has been politically pieced together forever.
At one time they had a seaport now in Kuwait.

There is no such thing as an "Iraqi". They are tribes of different religious sects thrown together by the will of outside politics. They simply do not see themselves as one people. Saddam was the only one who could control most of them. Even he had no control of Northern Iraq.
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bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
14. so they think they can control or get cronies in charge of each partition
seperately. since making a puppet government out of the existing countryisnt working that well.

news for bushco...
the 3 individual segments are still not going to want imperial control, they will want self determination.

the kurds have been fighting for it for years but an independent kurdistan will royally piss turkey off and wont sit so well with iran either.

the sunni hate us so forget making deals with them.

the shia are aligned with iran, so forget being pals with them.

once the infighting stops they will turn their sights directly and fully on the occupiers.

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mazzarro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
15. Isn't this against international convention?
Is there a provision against a conquering nation dismembering or inherently changing a conquered nation's form of government? Or is this convention also going to be swept aside, thus making the developing world more suspicious and distrustful of international organizations and agreements as being only vehicles of western control and manipulation of non-members of the privileged nations club?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
16. More factions to fight each other
I think it's ridiculous. The problem is that WE are still deciding everything. Until the ME is put in front to lead the Iraqis to a peaceful solution, they are going to keep fighting the 'American puppet government'. By cutting it in 3, we just give them THREE puppet governments to fight.

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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
17. Saddam didn't need to do this.
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pork medley Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
18. partition would be an open invitation to genocide
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. Hi batwing!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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Ravy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
22. Cut-up and Run? (n/t)
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. I like it !!!
:evilgrin:
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Arkham House Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
24. Look how well it's worked in Jerusalem...
:eyes:
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