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gordontron Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:18 PM
Original message
What about a Progressive Library?
It could be an independent organization that provides books to people who either can't afford them or can't access them at their local library. The library wouldn't be a physical one, rather an online database of people offering books for people to read and people looking for books. The organization would make sure that the users of the system aren't stealing books and that there are enough books in circulation. Think about it...

Thousands of Americans could read great titles like

+Fiasco
+State of Denial
+Don't think of an Elephant
+1984
+Bushwhacked
+Rogue Nation
+Amred Madhouse/The Best Democracy Money Can BUy
+Progressive Logic
+The Courage of Our Convictions
+It Can't Happen here
etc etc etc

currently I can't find some of these titles at my local library and I really don't want to buy all of them. thoughts?
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flyingfysh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Try your local library
Most of these books are still under copyright, but you can encourage your local library to buy them or borrow them through a library network. That's what libraries are for.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Or donate a copy!
;)

Your favorite public library book buyer (me) thanks you for the PSA!
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TheCentepedeShoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. Most of those are in our local
public library. I have "American Theocracy" on hold right now, the only way to get it even in this fundie/freeper heaven. They just got "Conservatives Without Conscience" and it has a waiting list. I personally own "Armed Madhouse" and a slightly water-stained 1st edition, acquired at a local used bookshop, of "It Can't Happen Here."
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. This is a great idea!
Especially for poor folk, and especially if you add some poverty issue books to your list.

Glad you thought of this!

:thumbsup:
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gordontron Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. the list was just a brainstorm
the library could potentially have a myraid of books on subjects like poverty, the environment, health care, etc. those were just some political books I thought of.
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scholarsOrAcademics Donating Member (194 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. too valuable books will be kept
I have loaned books to friends, and they are too slow in returning them. One took about 13 months to be returned. The idea is good, I have not been able to get EIR books from the university,I did get one from the local library. If anyone has some books by William Webster Tarpley, I'm interested.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
38. Hi scholarsOrAcademics!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
5. Maybe a nonprofit Amazon store
Then we could donate our books, purchase them for $2.00 a piece, then donate them back if want to, or not. I was just thinking about a way to create a situation where people would be invested a little bit so they'd be more inclined to put books back into the system.

I don't think you can scan books, if that's what you meant.
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gordontron Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. yes
there needs to be a way to make sure freepers don't sign up and steal books.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. I would like to see DUers who do not keep their books to
make sure they are given to the local library. I also cannot afford all the good books that are advertised on BuzzFlash, DU, CommonDreams and other sites. However, I see a problem that this kind of internet library could bypass: Some conservative library boards may not allow these liberal books in their library. I am lucky because our system is more likely to ban conservative books.
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TheCentepedeShoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
36. I've donated boxes and bags
of books over the years to the libraries in Tampa, Tally and here in Amarillo.
The library has a "brown bag" book sale every year, fill a paper grocery sack for $3.00. I came away this year with 35 hardcover books for $9.00. Yeah, it's crowded, and after awhile a little (!) hot... maybe like Filene's on bridal gown day. But, after they're read, some of the books will get recycled back to the library.
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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
8. You can read plenty of books for free online right now
Surf to http://www.ebrary.com to see some of the excellent technology that's available and already used by many public libraries, perhaps including your own public library. If you have a big-city library card, chances are all you have to do is log in to the website listed on it.

If not, there are several more obscure alternatives readily available. These may be the best:

From http://searchenginewatch.com/showPage.html?page=3565566 :

"A (Non-controversial) Alternative to Google Print

By Gary Price; November 21, 2005

Google Print has stirred up a hornet's nest of controversy, but another company has been offering online book search capabilities, with the blessings of publishers, for years. ebrary has been around since 1999. The company offers numerous services including one that lets you search and read over 20,000 in-copyright books for free. You pay only to print and copy text.

ebrary, like other services (NetLibrary, Books24x7, Safari Tech books spend a great deal of time marketing their services for licensing by libraries and the enterprise market. ebrary is no different and its fully featured search technology is very cool and powerful.

What makes these and other services different than Amazon's Search Inside the Book and Google Print is that they allow the user to read, annotate and print (in some cases) the full text of books. In most cases these are new, in-copyright books, that can be full text searched.

Shop ebrary

ebrary also offers Shop ebrary, a little known service that allows anyone to access and read (online) over 20,000 books from major publishers, sheet music titles and reports. Full text online access from Shop ebrary content is free. You pay only for what you print or copy. It's easy. ...
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benny05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. Suggest you Re-read Price's Article
E-brary is very expensive, over 2 times the cost of a print copy. Safari books cannot be purchased --you have to have a subscription. If you look at their sites, they are trying to market to libraries or corporations only; they are not for the typical consumer (retail). I'm sorry, but the article Price wrote was intended for librarians who purchase such products.

As far as looking inside Amazon's books in connection with google technology, a lot of times you cannot print what you see; you can only read the selected passages based on the keywords you put in.

Progressive Library online is a not an option at the moment as you have to consider the digital divide that still exists. Many still have dial-up and it would take forever to download pages or books; that's just the logistics. Otherwise, why Ebrary and Safari etc issues surround the legal downloading and cost has to do with general copyright laws (which are good things to help artists and writers), but also you can thank Clinton and Gore for the Digital Millienium Copyright Act to go through to help their Hollywood and publishing buddies. Licensing agreements are murder to negotiate for popular works and very scholarly works.

But in theory, it's an idea. I wish we could have a Progressive Library for free.



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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. "Full text online access fron Shop ebrary content is free"
Did I misinterpret that sentence? Have you tried shop eBrary?

I haven't tried shop eBrary, though I've had free NetLibray and Books24x7 accounts through my public library and an association I belong to. I've also taken full advantage of a free Safari 10-book trial.

One of those commercial outfits might customize access to progressive books for large communities like DU, dKos, or http://www.purpleocean.org , but it wouldn't be entirely free.

Some associations have pretty generous deals with these outfits though. For example, every member of an organization might have unlimited free access to a rotating list of 100 books, and the option to pay an extra $50 or $100 a year for access to rotating llibraries of 500 or 1,000 books.
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benny05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Thanks for the extra info
I still think the account may have be set up from a public library that already has an account but doesn't pay for all books. Five dollars for an account is too cheap for retail, but I won't dispute it until I look into it more.

In any case, the public library is still the best vehicle for all of these suggestions.



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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. No--if I understand what I'm reading, the free-access eBrary account
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 08:29 PM by ProgressiveEconomist
does NOT have to be associated with a library account Click on the link in post #19 for details.

The economics of book publishing and the economics of library management are changing radically due to technology. Handling physical books now may be more expensive than letting readers download e-books that self-destruct automatically on their expiration dates.

eBrary and its competitiors get most of their money from libraries and publishers.

But, apparently, eBrary has a second business model that gets revenue from individuals at 25 cents a page for printing or copying material to other software programs outside the eBrary browser.

If you only want to READ an e-book, and take notes on pencil and paper or on a second computer, your Shop eBrary account NEVER will be charged, if I understand correctly. Of course, many who set out only to browse and read ebooks ultimately will get into the habit of paying 25 cents per page to print or copy. Once your account is set up, temptation to spend is only a keystroke away from being acted upon.
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benny05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I will ask my public librarians about this
But it's good to bring out options..
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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Good idea. To get more prgressive books into eBrary, the people who
ARE paying need to get involved. I wonder whether it's possible to submit online recommendations to librarians for new e-books they should make available. If not, IMO it should be.
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benny05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. How could it be paid for?
Library of Congress is getting less funding from the gov't. So who pays?
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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. I'm no expert on library operations. But every library has a budget for
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 08:49 PM by ProgressiveEconomist
new acquisitions. What eBrary and competitors evidently sell to libraries is a certain number of licenses for, say, "State of Denial". If all e-book copies of the book are virtually checked out, a borrower must wait until one of the copies goes "poof" on somebody else's hard drive.

Usage statistics may be what help librarians decide how many e-copies and how many physical copies of a title to order. So, the more people ask for progressive e-books, the more libraries may spend on them, at the expense of other budget items.

That's why it may be a good idea for all of us to tell our librarians we're interested in progressive books, and in progressive e-books in particular.
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benny05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. That is a different question for a national Progressive Library
Which is what I thought the person with idea had in mind..
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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. "can't find some of these titles at my local library ... don't want to buy
all of them. thoughts?"

That sentence from the end of the OP is what I was responding to in all my posts.

The OP seemed to me to be cursing the darkness; I decided to light a few candles.
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benny05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. So, are you willing to pay more investments for Public Libraries
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 10:17 PM by benny05
Especially in poorer areas to make this happen?

I bet not.

I say this because in choosing a lunch or breakfast for a child, the library is competition for thought or recreation. I would pick nourishment for a child, but a child might pick entertainment, such as a DVD, and not a book. Not a bad thing, just reality.





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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Here are step-by-step instructions for free access to eBrary
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Red Right and BLUE Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
10. I would like to be a part of something like that. OR:
A small group of people who just mails books to eachother when we get them. They are shared with eachother but always sent back to their rightful owner. Anyone interested in that?

Pardon my grammar above, which probably didn't make much sense. LOL
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
39. I really do think that's a great idea. It helps to build community,
something that has been missing since The Great Rebellion :) of the 60's.

Plus, as the poster mentioned, it would be great to start reaching out to poor folk who can't afford books, too!

Yes, the library is still there (at least for now), but.... we really do need to start doing things among ourselves, too!
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
11. You can't find ANY of them at your public library?
I buy the popular titles for my public library and I guarantee we have each and every one of them.

You need to contact the Collection Development librarian at your local library and (politely, please) insist that they get at least the most popular of those titles (Fiasco, State of Denial, Don't Think of an Elephant--all of which were or are on the NYT Bestseller List, which even the smallest public library ought to have at least one copy of each).

Also, ask them about InterLibrary Loan; you can borrow books from other libraries through ILL.
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gordontron Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I'm able to find most of those books at my library
I own a few on the list too, but last time I checked some had at least 3 holds on them. I myself have enough money to buy books, but I know there a lot of people who simply don't have that kind of disposable income or don't want to buy a book they will only read once. I'm also lucky to have a great public library system, but many people aren't.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
29. We TRY to maintain a ratio of 3 holds to 1 copy where I work.
Smaller libraries try to maintain at least 5:1.

We honestly have patrons who think there should be a 1:1 ratio and that's just completely unrealistic--and a very poor use of taxpayer money. IF we buy "enough" popular titles, other important, but not popular titles can't be bought.

As I say above, we LOVE donations!


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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
14. Long excerpts from some of the books on your list may be at
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Book_Excerpts/Books_b... . It's a website specifically devoted to putting up links to and excerpts from progressive political reading in books and magazines.

Two of the older books on your list--"1984" and "It Can't Happen Here" are available in full text from many different website. I've often found full texts of such books by googling "full text" + the title of the book.
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benny05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
15. How would you sustain it? How would you pay for it?
Even e-books requires troubleshooting to ensure downloads. What about licensing agreements/

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nealmhughes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
17. Your local public library will have them or else ILL (interlibrary loan)
them from a larger to you. It is a free service, unless it is not held in the area in which your local is part of a consortium. The odds are that the local academic library has them and if you are an alumna or alumnus, the lending card rate is quite cheap or else you can usually get borrowing privledges at a nominal fee if not even an alum.

If the book is coming from outside the consortium area, then there might be a nominal postage fee of say, $5 for two-way postage. Your local librarian will bill you and then he or she will pay the bill that the owner sends to them for the ILL.

Of course, many public libraries use book buying services that try to keep a wide range of popular reading materials in stock, but they may only update a few times a year, as library budgets are tighter than imaginable. Making friends with whomever does collection development is a great idea! They actually halfway "guess" at what patrons want... after reading the reviews and other formulae and of course, the aforementioned buying companies.

Just remember, we librarians know everything except how to dress.

Neal M. Hughes, MLIS
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benny05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Which state are you in Neal?
I live in Illinois.. :hi:
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nealmhughes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. As far north in Alabama as one can be and not be in Tennessee!
The part of the state where we vote Democratic and wear shoes (normally).

In Florence, about 90 miles north of Nashville and 50 miles west of Huntsville, on the Tennessee River....
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
26. contact your library
and see about donating

you may be able to set up an endowment to buy books like this without too much money

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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
27. Excellent freaking idea! Excellent!
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benny05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. It is
But how do you pay for it, when our gov't is 300B at least in the hole, and they don't want us to read these good books as it is.

Vote against the pols who don't care about our needs!!
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Who are the pols?
:rofl:
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benny05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. Do you live in Texas? and where? n/t
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
37. We call that the public library.
Why shouldn't they be able to access them there?

If your local library doesn't have enough political material, donate some.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
41. I don't understand this thread
I happen to have a small library that can't afford all the latest titles. The directors are all liberal Democrats, so I know they do their best to bring in good Dem books, but there are a lot they miss. I also can't afford books all the time, the price of a book will fill up the gas tank.

So along comes somebody offering a great idea to recycle books, and it gets shot down. I just don't understand. If you don't want to participate, why can't you just shut the hell up and let others do what they want to do.

Thanks for trying.
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