Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

In one sense, it doesn't matter if Foley's acts were illegal.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:40 PM
Original message
In one sense, it doesn't matter if Foley's acts were illegal.
It matters, of course, in determining whether or not he can be prosecuted, whether he will spend any time in a small cell with someone named Butch. There seems to be some dispute over whether the age of consent in the relevant jurisdiction is 16 or 18. It may also matter where geographically a given page was when he was talking to Foley. If the page was in a 18-consent jurisdiction, the law of that jurisdiction might have been broken even if Foley was in a 16-consent jurisdiction. The federal laws people keep talking about are, I assume, the laws governing DC.

But here is the sense in which it doesn't matter whether it was 18-consent or 16-consent. Whether or not Foley's actions were illegal, they were WRONG. It is improper for a person in their 40's or 50's to use their power & influence to induce a young, impressionable teenager to engage in sexual activity. These are, after all, kids too young to vote, to be emancipated from parental control, to drink, and to volunteer for the military without parental consent.

The upshot is that, whether or not any prosecutions follow in this case, the public will care that one or more dirty old men enticed people who are legally minors for most purposes into sexual activity. If there is not a legal case here, there is still a moral and political one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. The issue is inappropriate senior-subordinate relationships
There's also a bit of intimidation and harassment in the mix as well.

And that ASSUMES that he "didn't do anything wrong."

But in addition to all that, and perhaps more egregiously, the guy was a CHEAPSKATE...look at how he consummated his relationship with a former page that he had been grooming for four years:

The two had wine and pizza on a backyard patio and then retired to a spare bedroom, he recalled.

The former page, who served during Foley's first term, said that he believed Foley became bolder in his behavior during his decade in Congress.

"He clearly has used his position, but who hasn't?" the former page said. He still follows protocol in referring to the former congressman as "Mr. Foley."

He said Foley was really two very different people: a legislator "really devoted to his cause," and a sexual being.

He and other former pages were surprised that it took so long for Foley "to get caught," he said.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-pa...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. It always matters if public officials commit illegal acts, or it should
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Of course it matters if something illegal was done.
I said "in one sense."

My point was that even if nothing illegal transpired, some thoroughly improper acts did.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Not Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. Nor would it make any difference if the attention were initiated
by a love-struck page toward Foley. (recall that Monica is reported to have initiated as well.) It is inappropriate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zensea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. I agree, except ...
... since I'm about to turn 50, I don't think I'd describe Foley as a dirty old man.
In comparison to a 17 year old, yes; but in general terms, 52 (Foley's age) is not really old.
I know it's just a figure of speech.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. well, DC is a 16 consent
so that's the law they're talking about in DC. the federal laws involve soliciting a minor over interstate lines, and the feds define minor as 18.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Thanks. That is an important clarification.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. yes, but I thought that using the internet to prey on minors
makes it an interstate issue. Am I wrong?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. No, I believe you are right.
But when was this law passed? Was it in effect when Foley was active?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. my admitedly limited understanding of federal law
is that you actually have to meet someone you have solicited for sex over the internet, or intend to meet them (like going to a pre-arranged place) before it is a crime. this is why prosecutors are looking to state law in Florida and Louisiana, where it is illegal to proposition a minor for sex over the internet. the laws are screwy. the relevant federal law in play here, as I know it, is the 1996 Communications Decency Act which was certainly in effect.


further reading of DC law shows that while you can have sex with someone over 16 (as long as you aren't in a position of authority over them) you cannot provide sexually explicit written material to a minor. it doesn't specify the internet. (strangely, this means that, as a resident of DC, I can have sex with a 17 year old, but I can't write a love letter to her saying I want to have sex with her, strange) I can tell a 16 year old that I want to have sex with her and then do it, but I can't email it, text it or write it in any way. strange law.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. It didn't matter than Monica consented and was of age
Why shouldn't we be glad the RW is crashing down, regardless of the reason that it is
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
10. Not just 40s or 50s, anyone in charge of teens are responsible
for the damage to their mental makeup. Taking advantage of teens and pre-teens is abhorrent and one of the lowest things an adult can do, IMO.

There are some very smart kids out there, they seem to grow up a lot faster then any other generation. Unfortunately (and now I see why my parents told me these things and I rolled my eyes as a kid) there are some things you just cannot know, even at the age of 18. Some things older people know and can naturally manipulate teens in malicious ways.

To me this is more a moral thing then legal. There are things you just shouldn't do in a supposed civil society.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Yes, that is what I was trying to say.
That is really what was wrong with what he did, regardless of the law.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
11. "spend any time in a small cell with someone named Butch" ?
Why would you reward him ?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Butch has AIDS.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon Apr 21st 2014, 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC