Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

The Andy Card Bombshell - Why He Really Resigned

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:15 PM
Original message
The Andy Card Bombshell - Why He Really Resigned
Earlier this spring, reporters started nosing around into the background of Andy Card's connections with his high school pals, Ron Kaufman (architect of the Willie Horton ads in 88), and Ron Logue (CEO of the Bushiest Bank of them all - State Street Corporation, parent of State Street Bank & Trust).

Within days, Andy Card was no longer in contention for Sherman Adam's record for longest-serving White House Chief of Staff, but was being trundled out the door quietly.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Kaufman - of Wilie Horton fame - is also Andy Card's brother-in-law.

The three - Card, Kaufman, and Logue - are all from Holbrook, Massachusetts, and are Mitt-Heads.

The truth about Andy Card's resignation - and how he disgraced the Executive Office of the President - will come out sometime in October.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. AWESOME! but, as always....
WHERE are the DEMS on this?

and, as always, where is the M$M? silly question, I know.

didn't Whitewater involve some sort of banking irregularities, heh?

Jeff Gerth, are you still working as a 'journalist?' this should be right up your alley. Wait a minute, I know! you only work BOGUS stories, don't you? silly me
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Some Reporters Have Done Their Fact-Checking
This story should break by Halloween.

Meanwhile, stay tuned to: http://www.shareholdersonline.org

http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?company=jorstad...

Next week, State Street will have to explain why the CEO (Andy Card's buddy) had two shareholders removed (one under arrest), for daring to try to hold the CEO accountable for alleged wrongdoing:

http://www.shareholdersonline.org/pdf/HaveYouSeenThisMa...

Criminalizing shareholders who ask questions at shareholders' meetings: par for the course for the Bushiest of Banks.

To see if your 401(k) or pension plan does business with State Street:

http://www.freeerisa.com (look at the Form 5500 for your plan, and look at the schedule that includes fees for "service providers")
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Would you like to elaborate?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. The Primary Docs Speak for Themselves
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Yes they do but
I'm interested in the "why" you are here all of a sudden posting his arrest record?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Look at the Arrest Record...
... it details State Street CEO Ron Logue's panic-stricken response to the questions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. I can't get it to download
it locked my computer up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Large File
It's 971KB. Do you have dial-up?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #32
47. broad band
sometimes finicky broadband.

Since all is rather cryptic, are you a supporter of the other new DUer to which you refer?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. Absolutely
I think State Street CEO Ron Logue - Andy Card's buddy since high school - is the most radioactive CEO in America right now.

H-P's pretexting practices have nothing on State Street's abuses and business practices.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. I'm sorry I don't have time to dance
Could you not be so mysterious and just answer the question, please?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. I Think Logue Should Be Questioned Under Oath
... and that the shareholders who were kicked out for trying to hold him accountable did the right thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #30
48. I hope you understand my questioning
I just wanted you to clarify why you would post the arrest record of a new DUer here, being new here yourself. Do you know David?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. I plan to be in court on October 19th...
... cheering against State Street, and in favor of what David and Patrick stood up for at the Annual Meeting.

I suspect there will be a gaggle of press there, too. David is helping renowned corporate governance activist Nell Minow edit, research, and write the latest edition of her corporate governance textbook, which is taught in MBA programs.

Ms. Minow's father was the FCC Chairman under Kennedy who decried the network TV programming as "a vast wasteland," and Ms. Minow's two sisters and she have continued in that vein of activism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
38. Halliburton and State Street - In Bed for More Than a Decade
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
43. Good for him, he should be proud of that arrest
This is certainly a scary situation - it takes a lot of courage to go up against people this wealthy and powerful.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Agreed - Civil Disobedience Is Alive and Well
Besides, can't the next Democratic President pardon such offenses, in the event a jury returns a guilty verdict after a very public trial - during which State Street will have to defend the CEO's actions, and why he didn't want to answer these questions:

http://www.shareholdersonline.org/pdf/questions%20for%2...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. Question about your screen name -
Do you know something about mid-October that I should?!
It is interesting and intriguing choice. Just curious about its origin. I am very nosy. You can tell me its none of my business if it is private.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Excellent Question
The choice ties to many things.

1. It is meant to evoke the Ides of March, when an attempt to restore the Roman Republic was made.

2. It is meant to evoke Friday, October 13th (the Ides are either the 13th or the 15th of the month, depending upon the month). Any Friday, October 13th has special significance (Dan Brown enthusiasts and Freemasons take note): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar

3. The proverbial "October Surprise" that can help an out-of-power party turn a victory into a rout.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Why thank you!
Very wonderful response - I am going to follow your links.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #29
96. I was born on a Friday, Oct. 13, and will be 62 on this coming
Friday the 13th. My father was also born on October 13, although not a Friday.

What should I be preparing for?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #96
99. Hmmm...
... a Halliburton hangover? A Hastert hangnail? A Frist felony charge?

Who can tell?

; )
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #96
128. WHOOHOO Jack, Let's Party!
I was born the next Friday October 13th after you and I'll be 56 next Friday!

Sounds like we may have a happy birthday this year! It's about time we had a good one!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #128
130. Happy Birthday to both of you...
... sit back and enjoy the fireworks.

; )
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #130
132. Will do and BTW...
Welcome to DU!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #132
136. Thanks, and remember abolitionism...
... started with the smallest of sparks.

Whoever named this site the Democratic Underground paid homage to the small pockets of resistance who organized to end the greatest flaw in our original Constitition.

About time W was clued in to the fact that there are no longer humans who count as three-fifths of a person.

The only Three-Fifths Compromise I foresee is the Dems holding three-fifths of the Senate, which is a fillibuster-proof majority; not this go-around, mind you, but 08 will be here before you know it.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=three-fifths+slave...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blossomstar Donating Member (772 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #136
251. Thank you for your positive posts!
Will certainly enjoy the upcoming fireworks. WELCOME! Another sane voice in this crazy world... THANK YOU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #251
252. We need to begin acting like Valley Forgers...
... and prove that we're every bit as tough-minded and determined as our patriotic ancestors were.

Compare the privations of Washington's demoralized troops that dreadful winter, to the incredible luxury we enjoy today:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_forge

These are the times that try our souls, but let's keep it in perspective: we have much better tools with which to fight our would-be oppressors than our ancestors did.

If you're more a Civil War buff than a Revolutionary War buff, consider the incredible sacrifices that were made, to preserve the Union, and then to restore it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blossomstar Donating Member (772 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #252
254. You are giving me goose bumps!
These are words out of my own mouth! I've often said that the whole problem is that people are not familiar with history! Our ancestors gave their very BLOOD for the rights and freedoms that we enjoy today.... the very reason America exists was to escape political and religious opression! Thank you again, your posts are inspiring!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #254
256. You're welcome, and this Friday the 13th...
... remember that a few Templars escaped to Scotland after the massacre of October 13, 1307, vowing to be ever-vigilant against tyrannies and cabals that are hell-bent on concealing knowledge:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Templars

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_rite

Have you thanked a Shriner or a Freemason today?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=freemason+%22green...

http://www.gwmemorial.org /

For Dan Brown enthusiasts anxiously awaiting the Solomon Key, some of this stuff isn't just Hollywood fiction (e.g., National Treasure).

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0368891 /

Good ol' GW - the original, not today's cheap knock-off - cherished his ties, and many Lodges today welcome women.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chipster Donating Member (139 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #252
364. And they're watching us!
Ides, I've long contended that all our fellow "Merkins" (as our esteemed pretzeldent mispronounces it) that preceeded us are watching eagerly to see how we handle these challenges. After more than 6 years of being in the resistance, sometimes, I reflect about them and all they accomplished without our technology. Perhaps we really need to pamphlet America - who knows, it worked well for them!

And before someone tells me that the net is the "new pamphlet," a 2005 PEW Internet & American Life Project "sixty-eight percent of American adults, or about 137 million people, use the internet, up from 63% one year ago. Thirty-two percent of American adults, or about 65 million people, do not go online, and it is not always by choice...At the other end of the spectrum, 53% of home internet users have high-speed access, creating a new divide among internet users."

Those 65 million Americans who don't go online are 47.36% of the 123,480,019 votes cast in 2004, and they're getting their news and views from other sources: TV, squawk radio, papers, clergy...

...and concerned friends and neighbors who reach out to them...could that be you?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #364
365. Chipster...
... I couldn't agree with you more that more channels - and old-fashioned ones at that, updated to the exigencies of our time - should be used to reach those who are reachable (i.e., those with general misgivings, who only need a small spark of light to snatch a momentary glimpse of the truth).

Most people *will* admit they were wrong. That means that many of those who got snookered by Rove's message of God, Guns, and Gays in 04 will - if presented with that small spark of revelatory light, turn out as an angry constituency this year, to redeem their vote in '06 (with compound interest due).

Leaflets and pamphlets can be an effective tool, especially if there is humor involved.

If you've ever come out of the grocery store to find a leaflet on your windshield, you know that there is the quick range of emotions: the annoyance, the inevitable glance to see if it's that 1 in 1000 leaflets you'd actually care about, the crumpling, the decision of what to do with the paper (oh well, it's just one more thing cluttering the back of the minivan floor), etc.

But for that 1 in 1000 leaflets that makes you laugh AND makes you think - the clouds seem to part and the trumpets seem to bark.

As for me, I have started printing these out in color, and leaving them around: http://www.bushbunglesbrigade.org/BungledProtoTypeCard....

(For details, see: http://www.bushbunglesbrigade.org /)

What's your favorite leaflet?

Ides
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #130
138. Gracias--
and, like Hubert sez, Welcome to DU. You're here with quite a splash already.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:58 PM
Original message
Yowza, Hubert.
Let's hear it for the Ides of October, and all that it might portend.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #96
280. Happy Birthday Friday, Jackpine Radical!!
My Mom's birthday :thumbsup: , and my x-husbands birthday, too!

Lots of my favorite folks are born on Oct. 13th!!

:bounce: :toast: :beer: Start gearing up now for the celebration! :party: :silly: :applause:


:kick: :kick: :kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #280
367. Happy Birthday, Guys!
Ides
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
36. Seems the only people BushCo ever punishes
are the ones who refuse to play along. If you're willing to break the law, then you fit right in.

BTW: Welcome to DU.

Would you mind explaining to someone who doesn't understand the stock market why this is a big deal? Thanks.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #36
59. Arresting a Shareholder...
... is nearly unheard of.

Shareholders are owners of the company. The CEO is like the chief butler, and the annual meeting is a chance for the hired help to be accountable to the owners.

Imagine you owned a home in the Italian countryside, which you only visit once a year. When you arrive, the chief butler bars your entry, or kicks you out when you start asking about missing paintings, etc.

Get the picture?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. Intriguing. Though I would contend that Bush and Cheney had already
disgraced the office of the President.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. The EOP is Supposed to Protect the Presidency...
... which is bigger than any one person.

As Chief of Staff, Andy Card was supposed to provide sound counsel to the President, not sweetheart deals to his high school pals.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. But by failing to have the office become one of constant examples
of croney enrichment at the expense of sound policy - I would still contend that the Executive Office was sullied from nearly the beginning of this administration - blame Card, Cheney or Bush. I would blame all three. From the dance with the oil/energy executives to the profiteering plans per a planned war in Iraq (long prior to the events of 911), to collusion with Pharma per the medicare prescription reform efforts pushed from the WH (and manipulated through HHS pressure to withhold information from congress)... so many examples... I do look forward to learning that to which you refer - but I rather imagine it will be one more example of rather than the exception of tarnishing the Executive Office of the Presidency.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Look at FreeERISA.com for all the pension plans Bush's Bank...
... earns fees from: http://www.freeerisa.com / (search your pension plan's Form 5500, under the fee schedules, for State Street, State Street Bank & Trust, State Street Global Advisors, or CitiStreet)

State Street is also one of the oligarch corporations that own DTCC - the monopoly for clearing stock trades. This ties into the short selling scandal.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=dtcc+%22state+...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. Welcome to DU.
Curious to learn against such stiff competition "how he disgraced the Executive Office of the President".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Thanks
The shareholder that Andy Card's high school buddy had arrested at the State Street Annual Meeting is being represented in the trespass charge by Norman Zalkind, renowned First Amendment attorney: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=zalkind+norman...

I have a pending request to find out if a legal defense fund has been established, to help: 1. defray the criminal trespass defense costs; and 2. defray the costs of conducting discovery into the matters that State Street CEO Ron Logue - Andy Card's buddy - refused to discuss at the meeting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
26. Those would be sweet proceedings,
However without quid pro qou...

-Hoot
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Drops_not_Dope Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #9
211. Curious IdesOfOctober,
Do you own Google stock? :7
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
6. Welcome to DU, Ides. Who the hell are you?
Nicely provocative post for a poster with only a dozen posts. You smell like a smear campaign someone is running and your screen name is a big giveaway of your intentions here. Do good and do it ethically, whoever you are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. smear campaign? what are you talking about, please?
curious, as the links provided only cite letters, filings, etc., without anything else.

what are you getting at: some sort of Rovian counterplot that'll blow up in Dems face before the election....the October Surprise for which we're all waiting?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Thanks
"Nicely provocative post for a poster with only a dozen posts."

That's a little bit like saying that Common Sense was a nicely provocative pamphlet for an immigrant who only had a few pamphlets under his belt.

"You smell like a smear campaign someone is running"

Facts are facts. Andy Card is Ron Kaufman's brother-in-law, and high school friends with the CEO of the Bank that the Bush Administration used to take over the Enron pension funds: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=enron+chao+scalia+...

"your screen name is a big giveaway of your intentions here"

Brutus intended to help restore the Roman Republic after Caesar's usurpations. It's October of a second-term mid-term election in the American Republic, with an imperial President. The alias fits.

"Do good and do it ethically, whoever you are."

Good advice. Thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
77. Take over and take back? Takeover the pension funds AND
take back the slush funds - just my little guess - than Enron was laundering money that the admin used to pay for their secret sub-government activities and their war against the peolple - funds they needed that they couldn't get the legal way - through Congress. I had to throw that in there - it's my own private theory, based on things very flighty. And based on logic - the dirty tricks dept and coalition briber had to have been using money that was not accounted for to pay for so many of their behind the scenes expenditures - because pay offs of the magnitude they are doling it out is probably not passing theough the GAO? I just suspect so and have this wild idea that Enron was their launderer-in-chief. At least, that's how I would base my thriller if I wrote one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blossomstar Donating Member (772 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
260. Ides of October; you are so welcome here!
I don't have a lot of posts, but have been hanging around DU for years... it is a place to come so that I know the whole country has not gone insane! Your posts are absolutely some of the best I have read! Obviously, you are very well informed and I for one, appreciate your providing all the links with your posts. Very informative indeed! Whatever your mission, we are fortunate that you have chosen to post here at DU and share your expertise with us all... wishing you wind and wings Ides of October!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #260
262. Wind and wings, not to mention...
"Strong coffee and plenty ... " (Napoleon Bonaparte)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22strong+coff...

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy ... " (Benjamin Franklin)

; )
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #260
272. Ditto!! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
7. Oh right, the "accountable" executive
horseshit. He was fired because he wouldn't cowtow to this President, that's already come out in Woodward's book. Anything to try to smear the man now is only throwing the man under the bus in an attempt to make the executive look responsible. I call bullshit on the whole thing and any liberal who is taken in with this is being used.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
34. And we are supposed to believe Bob Woodward? I don't know, sandnsea,
it seems to me quite possible that Andy Card resigned for reasons we don't yet know, and that he could well have been in the thick of yet another Bushite nest of thieves and vipers. Andy Card hung in there for a long, long time, as point man to Bush in the filthiest regime in American history (and maybe the history of the world). And you think he resigned for ETHICAL reasons? Or was fired for not kow-towing--after all those years of...kow-towing?

Why do you "call bullshit on the whole thing" before you know all the facts? Why not just wait and see? I do see your point that this potential revelation of Card's relationship with this bank COULD be a way to distance Bush from Card, by smearing Card (--especially if Card has some items on Bush, which he well might have; wouldn't make him any angel, though, but a potential threat to his bosses). And we SHOULD watch out for devious plots like that. But I would say, be wary but keep an open mind, at this point.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Thanks; Andy Card/State Street CEO Photo in Boston Herald
I strongly urge you to do a deeper due diligence dive on State Street. It's not hard to substantiate the connections.

The Boston Herald even has a file photo of Card and State Street CEO Logue smiling together. The caption is unreal.

**************************************

The article mentions that, "...Logue is a Holbrook native who graduated from high school with White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card..."

A photo of Logue and Card, published in the Boston Herald on April 28, 2001, is captioned: "SHARING A LAUGH: White House Chief of Staff Andrew H. Card, the featured speaker at yesterday's Herald Hundred awards luncheon at the Fairmont Copley Plaza, chats with Ron Logue of State Street Corp. Political figures and prominent business people attended the event." (Staff photos by Ted Fitzgerald.)

"When Logue said he wanted to get the firm back on track through 'execution,' I didn't realize he meant by executing shareholders," Jorstad chuckles. "As for Logue's high school homeboys in high places, I think they wouldn't be sharing a laugh with him, if they had seen how he scorned the President's call to be accountable to State Street's employees and shareholders at the Annual Meeting in April," Jorstad adds. "State Street's employees are told, right on the face of their Salary Savings Program voting instruction form, that they are not permitted to vote at the shareholders' meetings."

**************************************

The above is taken from: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/93751/0001268911...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
suziedemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #34
345. I just remember what happened to Dan Rather.
Ides of October either knows something, or is conning us into believing something. Disinformation seems to be a favorite tool of the GOP. We need to be careful folks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #345
347. The public materials...
... speak for themselves.

For example, the selection of State Street by Elaine Chao and Eugene Scalia is a matter of public record.

So, too, is the Form 5500s for each employer's pension plan.

I appreciate the healthy skepticism, but there comes a point where - especially in this day and age where you can look up FEC filings, etc. online - smoke = fire.

Ides
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Thickasabrick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
8. Welcome!! Love your screen name - I thought Card resigned
because of his wacky cousin - the tin foil hat girl.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. yeah, what's up with that? I figured if she wasn't nuts, that was some
serious screwing she got

anything on her situation besides the recent thread here?

thx
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #8
330. His brother-in-law, Ron Kaufman ...
... poses a much greater problem, as does his old high school buddy, State Street CEO Ron Logue.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ron+kaufman+andy+c...

http://www.google.com/search?q=card+logue+holbrook+site...

As for Andy Card's passionately anti-war cousin: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=and...

What's the latest there?

Ides
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
10. Duncan Hunter's house deal involves State Street

Looks another nest of termites is going to get fumigated.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. I can't remember where I heard/read this (probably here, maybe radio),
but Hunter is supposedly going to be indicted for something, but it won't happen til after the election

can't remember anything else, other than somebody is trying to put the brakes on the announcement til post Nov.

anybody else remember that?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Federal Judge on State Street Funds Trustee - Fraud
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
145. Here are the details
Hunter's house in California was underassessed for real estate tax purposes for nine years, until it was destroyed in the wildfires three years ago. It isn't clear whether or not there was deliberate deception involved. However, there was a State Street Bank Connection.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20061008-9999-...

The house went into foreclosure in 1993, by which time the lender had been seized by the Resolution Trust Corp., the agency formed by Congress in 1989 to bail out hundreds of failed thrifts. . . .

According to county records, the Resolution Trust Corp. sold the 2.7 acres on Vista Viejas Road at public auction Dec. 15, 1993. State Street Bank and Trust paid $175,000 for the parcel and took title Jan. 4, 1994. . . .

County records show that Hunter bought the property from State Street for the same price $175,000 less than two months later. The house appeared on the multiple listing service Feb. 1, 1994, and Hunter made an offer and opened escrow by Feb. 28, records show. The deal closed May 9. The congressman said he had no idea the U.S. government had liquidated the property.

He said he simply noticed the house on the multiple listing service, went inside and found a listing agreement near the sink. He contacted the agent and got the paperwork started. This was totally aboveboard and in the regular course of business, Hunter said.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #145
147. Good to know...
I have sources inside State Street who can find out what legislation might have been pending at the time that the company wanted Hunter's help with.

Meanwhile, what an interesting set of pols State Street has given money to this cycle: http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/com_supopp/2005_C00072...

Look at how cozy they are with Bob Ney.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
334. State Street was trusted by Bush 41 too, to conceal...
... the full scope of the S&L bailout:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=rtc+%22state+stree...

This story got new legs this week, with the Duncan Hunter story:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=congressman+du...

Ides of October
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
21. Interesting and bears further scrutiny.
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 02:55 PM by hootinholler
Understated enough? SO, why was he fired? This appears to demonstrate the relationships, what's his boner?

-Hoot
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
33. Let's hope so!
So many of these GOP scandals have been quietly swept under the rug. Let's hope our Dem leaders have the courage to speak up about them.

Thanks for such great information and Welcome to DU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Thanks, October 19th is the Next Court Date for the State Street...
... shareholder who was arrested, and I expect that State Street will be facing some very unwelcome questions about its corporate ties to the Bush Administration, and its bundled campaign contributions in state elections (especially to state treasurers who have a say in awarding public pension fund servicing contracts).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #35
50. State Street Bank & Trust and Ohio Bureau of Workers Comp?
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 03:53 PM by OzarkDem
Can anyone read Italian?

http://www.generali.com/generalicom/media/show?10893#se...

Links between this bank and the Bush WH and Ohio's Bureau of Workers Comp (which was used as a slush fund for laundering GOP campaign contributions) seems like a natural fit. Why would these two linked entities be part of an Italian legal filing?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #50
57. per Ohio the Bureau of Workers Comp is pennies compared to its massive
Pension system for public workers ... and the person who was in charge of investments at the time of Coingate, Robt Cowman, is now in charge of investment decisions of the Pension fund for Ohio. He is one of two people that kept approving the new $ for Noe. Early on in the scandal there were references to this other fund having the potential to be an even bigger Pay to Play scandal. That story - and the fact of Cowman moving from one agency to the other (always in charge of investments) was never reported on.

Given that this thread ties back to pension funds - wonder if Cowman and/or the Ohio Retirement (for public employes) Pension fund (can't recall the correct title of the agency) plays into the story our new poster is calling our attention to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. Arthur Levitt's SEC...
... singled out State Street's "pay for play" tactics (bundling campaign contributions to state treasurers who had partial or sole power to award public pension fund contracts - e.g., teachers, firefighters, cops, nurses, civil servants, etc.).

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22pay+for+pla...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #57
65. You may be on to something
See my link below too about Noe & Ohio and Florida Turnpike Commissions. I found a link to State Street and Ohio Edison, too.

Agree, public employees retirement systems would be a prime target for these thugs, teachers, too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #65
72. Check out the bundled bribes to Joe Malone, MA GOP Treasurer
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=malone+lopardo...

Lopardo is the disgraced author of the destruction of evidence memo: http://www.shareholdersonline.org /

He twisted arms to bundle bribes to Joe Malone, so that State Street Global Advisors would be awarded the MA state contracts: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=malone+lopardo...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #72
80. State Street Global Advisors Linked to Ohio Public Employees Retirement
System. Here it is, holy shite. I feel like I should go lock my door..


"Boston and London, February 2, 2006 State Street Corporation (NYSE:STT), the world's leading provider of services to institutional investors, today announced that it recently completed a securities lending auction for approximately $9 billion in international assets for investment funds managed by State Street Global Advisors (SSgA) in France. The funds include four French-domiciled Socits d'Investissement Capital Variable (SICAVs) and two French-domiciled Fonds Communs de Placement (FCPs). State Street recently announced the completion of an auction for the Ohio Public Employees Retirement System.

Exclusive borrowing rights to the securities for a set period of time were awarded to three borrowers using EquiLend AuctionPortSM, which allows lenders to host and conduct blind and open auctions of portfolios on behalf of their customers via EquiLend's global securities finance platform.

http://72.14.203.104/search?qcache:kNADl3tIOvMJ:pr.stat...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #80
88. now if only we had a better idea
as to what we are looking for/at.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #88
90. I know
This stuff isn't my strong suit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
39. Very Interesting!
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 03:33 PM by DemReadingDU
Hmm, Friday the 13th

I am becoming superstitious!


Edit to add: Welcome to DU

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Chuckle; If you know a Freemason, ask them about just how...
... significant this coming Friday is, given that this year's calendar coincides with that of 1307, when the Templars were rounded up by reactionary forces.

The duty to oppose such tyrannies means that Freemasons throughout the U.S. will be engaging in acts of patriotism, to help purge the cabal that has usurped the White House.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #41
55. Don't know any Freemasons
but I had a sister who worked for State Street Bank in the 90's.

maybe she knows you, LOL!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #41
277. I knew the origin of Friday the 13th but
Edited on Mon Oct-09-06 04:25 PM by AZBlue
didn't know about the Freemasons' actions this Friday - actually, I thought that the Freemasons were somehow tied to the Bush cabal? Or did I get that wrong?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #277
285. Given your signature line...
... drawn from the Declaration of Independence, you may be surprised to know how many of the "architects" of the Declaration - and of the Constitution - were proud to be Masons.

The numerous letters that George Washington wrote dealing with his Masonic ties help tell the tale (e.g., the two slabs on either side of the door at the George Washington Masonic National Memorial are carved with two of his letters dealing with his proud affiliation with "the craft"): http://www.gwmemorial.org /

See also the virtual tour, if you're unable to get to DC: http://www.gwmemorial.org/Tour /

The Scottish Rite Supreme Council temple, located at *1733* 16th Street (just up from the White House) is also worth a visit, and will figure prominently, no doubt, in Dan Brown's upcoming book, The Solomon Key: http://www.scottishrite.org/visitors/vtour.html

1733 is a significant address, in that it is the date that the first Freemasons lodge opened in the 13 colonies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1733

(Apologies to Dan Brown for spoiling some of what will no doubt be in his book.)

The ceremony for the laying of the cornerstone of the original U.S. Capitol was impossible to mistake for anything other than a Masonic one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Capitol#Hist...

http://www.gwmemorial.org/Tour/MemorialHall/MemorialHal... (cornerstone laying ceremony mural)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=masonic+cornerston...

Freemasonry in America came under fierce suspicion and distrust in America after The Morgan Affair in 1826, which decimated many Lodges' membership: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Morgan_%28anti-Mas...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry

Even so, the Lodges that survived still teach the same principles that George Washington and so many of the other key Founders found so compelling, as to build an entire nation upon them: http://www.pagrandlodge.org/programs/masedu/signersdecl...

http://www.pagrandlodge.org/programs/masedu/signersrumo...

For a further discussion of Freemasons who signed the Declaration, the Articles of Confederation, and the "more perfect Union" replacement, the Constitution: http://freemasonry.org/psoc/masonicmyths.htm

That isn't to say that all Masons throughout America's history have been exemplary members; but it is to say that the organization strives to teach its members that true patriotism surpasses all bonds of party or other loyalties. Indeed, it was this fraternal nature that enabled people from differing religious viewpoints to gather, socialize, and discuss how to throw off the British tyranny.

As for October 13th - well, any October 13th is special. This year's just happens to be moreso, since it synchs up with the 1307 calendar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1307 .

Next year will be 700 years since Phillip the Fair of France and Pope Clement V ordered the Templars rounded up on trumped-up charges. In 700 years, weak-minded would-be despots haven't changed very much.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_de_Molay
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
suziedemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #285
346. OK - are YOU Dan Brown?
You are too learned to be a "normal" person. And you seem too into history to be a banker or politician. You posts read like a suspense thriller. I'm suspicious and very curious.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #346
348. LOL. No, I am not Dan Brown...
... his books don't come with the primary documents.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #346
349. yeh, like an Agatha Christie mystery
keeps us guessing all the way thru the book, LOL!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #349
350. Big difference, tho
... in a mystery novel, you're called upon to read sequentially from the first page to the last, with no interaction.

Here, anyone with information can help write the ending.

For example:

1. Some have already taken the 5 minutes (max) to look up their Form 5500s. A few days ago, they had no idea who State Street is, and now they know that State Street earns fees off their pension plan(s). These folks have now begun to tell family members, friends, and neighbors how to check, and have begun to educate themselves - from reputable, public sources - about other ways that State Street serves BushCo.

2. Some have written with invaluable information that intersects with the State Street and/or Halliburton stories. For example, retirees at other companies with lesser-known lawsuits than the Polaroid or UAL suits have written to give a heads-up to the shenanigans they're facing with State Street's handling of their pension plans.

When you read Agatha Christie or Dan Brown, you have to suspend your disbelief, and go with the author's literary license.

Here, you don't. You're entitled to poke, prod, investigate, and become your *own* detective, using sources and resources you trust.

The Duncan Hunter, Resolution Trust Corp., State Street story this week may seem like happenstance or synchronicity. But the simplest explanation is that all these disparate groups have encountered State Street's business practices, and have all reached the same conclusion: they're dirty.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #285
354. Oh, no, I knew the connections...
...well, some of them - thank you for such a great list!! This particular aspect of history fascinates me. It has been since I was young, living in Alexandria, Va, driving around the George Washington Masonic Memorial constantly. Even as a child, I knew there had to be something to a group that made traffic move around them instead of the opposite, LOL.

But....are the Bushes part of the Masons? You probably can't say and I understand. I've heard both yes and no on that one - and even if they are, it doesn't change the fact that the Freemasons have done some monumental things over the course of history. As far as I'm concerned, if they are connected, well, there's always a few of the proverbial bad apples in any group.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #354
356. As you say, there are always ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #356
358. Interesting list
Especially the fact there isn't anyone named prescott,walker or bush on it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #358
359. Hardly exhaustive, but an interesting list...
... nevertheless, including the good, the bad, and the roguish.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
catmandu57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
40. Welcome Ides
I don't know who you are, apparently someone with knowledge and some weight behind you to have posting privileges so fast, but I suspect you will be a very welcome to our band here, your posting is giving me hope that what we've been trying to accomplish the downfall of the house of bush may be imminent and it's lightening my heart so, welcome friend.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. Thanks, and always remember...
... long before Skull & Bones was conceived by spoiled Elis, patriotic secret societies were at work, quietly ensuring that the American Experiment would succeed and flourish - in spite of all efforts by un-natural would-be aristocracies and Kennebunkport dynasties to arrogate to themselves undue influence.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=green+dragon+b...

Kind of makes me wanna watch National Treasure again.

; )
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #44
209. Are you implying
that there's going to be some sort of Boston Tea Party this coming Friday?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #209
213. It would be an auspicious day for one, yes...
... given the connection between the philosophical endpoints of October 13, 1307 and December 16, 1773.

An interesting line connects the two: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=green+dragon+b...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #44
231. I was just thinking about National Treasure
Hi, Ides, welcome to DU! Very intriguing post, I'm definitely bookmarking this for future reference.

If what you say is anywhere near as earth-shaking as you imply, it's time to stock up on popcorn.

I've always had a belief that there are "regulators", for want of a better word who work in the shadows.

K&R
:toast:
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #231
235. Regulators, as you say...
... are a particular tool of chronophiles and watchmakers.

Watchmakers include intricate programming known as "complications," some of which only act to add the leap second.

The Founders created an intricate timepiece, and it includes these rarely-seen "complications" that act to keep proper time.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=watch+complication...

George W. Bush has tried to throw off the time-keeping of our Constitution. Silly Iraqeteer: the Founders were better watchmakers than that.

Those Skull & Bones youngsters never learn.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #235
355. "Iraqeteer"!
Edited on Tue Oct-10-06 08:27 PM by Laurab
After reading through this thread, I have guessed your occupation. It wasn't easy but
I gave it some thought and I've got it now:

lawyer/historian/collegeprofessor/accountant/CEOofalargecompany/googlestockholder/
professoragain(literaturethistime)w/a/greekhistorydegree/corpgov'sfriend/humanresourcesdirector/investmentanalyst/
politicalactivist/andlastbutnotleast/comedian.

Am I close???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #355
357. Used in accordance with the trademark's spirit ...
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/45012/0001269476...

"Smith chuckles and says his working title is Iraqeteering (TM): How the Cheney Chain Gang Led Us Back to Baghdad."

I laughed when I first read that, and assume (fingers crossed) I won't be sued for using it here. I plead fair use.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
42. This is about money. Republickers don't care about stealing money
Explain what this has to do with penises, and it'll grow legs and fuck them in their tight little conservative asses.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #42
49. The S&L Crisis Had No Sex to Sell, Yet...
... it became an important story, that was covered in the mainstream media.

Here, you have the Bushiest of Banks being tapped to quiet up the Enron matter.

You have the Bushiest of Banks charging fees to countless Americans' 401(k) and other retirement accounts (yet hardly anyone has heard of State Street outside Boston).

You have State Street being one of a handful of oligarchs that own part of DTCC - the monopoly entity that clears all Americans' stock trades, and has access to incredibly sensitive personal data. DTCC is at the center of "StockGate," the scandal that GE/NBC hushed up: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=dtcc+stockgate

If DTCC has - as alleged - counterfeited shares, that sure would be an interesting way to update the old Iran-Contra "off-books" financing methods, wouldn't it?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #49
54. Curiouser and curiouser...
what would they be financing off the books? This admin doesn't have a congress setting any real prohibitions down on it as was the case in 1985 (?) when Congress voted to stop all funding of the Contras.

I would wonder about defense type spending - but that is now such a big black hole that just about everything is hidden - even the CBO can not distinguish what is general funding for the Pentagon vs what is specific spending for Iraq.

I have long wondered, however, about the real level of debt held by many banks in very questionable investment vehicles such as those exposed by Enron. It worries me that there is a whole lot of paper essentially backing its own risk (that is - no real banking) and that there is a lot of teetering going on that appears to keep some of the major financing entitities running.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. Bretton Woods is a chapter of American History
... that more Democrats should know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #58
67. Not familiar... found this
http://www.econ.iastate.edu/classes/econ355/choi/bre.ht...

trying to make sense of it all. In a skim did see a reference to one way of bringing down BP deficits (not sure what the BP stands for) is to increase financing by foreign interests. We certainly seem to be doing this in spades right now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tuesday_Morning Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #58
245. Here's the wiki
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #58
278. Just googled this,but
I don't get it.Why is this important?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #278
288. Bretton Woods' significance
Bretton Woods was among the first - and still one of the key - overhauls of the international finance system.

Those overhauls (like many other reforms) have had unintended consequences.

For example, do you know why you don't get a physical stock certificate anymore? The go-go stock market boom of the 1960s produced what came to be known as the "Paper Crisis".

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22paper+crisis%22...

The New York Stock Exchange had to run on a limited schedule, to help alleviate the backlog of paper certificates being shuttled around. The solution was the Depository Trust Company, now DTCC:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Depository_Trust_Compa...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depository_Trust_%26_Clear...

Along with the Bretton Woods legislation, the creation of DTC as a clearinghouse is one of those key innovations that - while neither inherently good nor evil - create the opportunity for mischief when exploited by the unscrupulous.

Exhibit A: Stockgate

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=stockgate+dtcc+%22...

Congress created DTC as a central clearinghouse, to "dematerialize" and "immobilize" stock certificates, and to end the "paper crisis":

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode15/usc_sec...

But the unintended consequences - and DTCC's controlling oligarchy - make it worth another look now:

http://www.dtcc.com/AboutUs/board.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #54
71. GOP political campaigns
recall, they've been in permanent campaign mode since Bush ran for office. That gets expensive.

And if you live in Ohio, you know what a complex, organized and well funded operation GOP campaign financing can be. They not only raise billions for their own campaigns, they lock down any donations to Dem campaigns. Then there's lots of pay to play.

Its sort of like a crime syndicate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #71
75. Sort of?
; )
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #75
82. I'm trying not to sound too tinfoil
but OMFG, this is the missing link.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. Makes Whitewater Look Quaint, Don't It?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #83
85. Very much so
Whitewater compared to this is like the con man running a game of 3 card monte on the street vs. an international crime syndicate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. The DOJ Has a Special Group...
... looking into it.

I kid you not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #87
94. I'm praying to God you're right
Please Lord help protect us from becoming a Third World country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #94
100. Bump it up a numeral...
... and pray we avoid becoming the Fourth Reich.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #49
63. Uh oh
My pittance of a pension arrives on a check from State Street
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #63
68. Now you're "onto them," as Kenny Boy Lay might say
Have your friends and relatives start looking up their plan docs on FreeERISA.com (Form 5500), to see if State Street (or any entity with "State Street" or "CitiStreet" as a variant in the name) is listed in the service providers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #68
115. I see where my old company
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 05:14 PM by DemReadingDU
It is paying fees to State Street Street Bank, Citistreet, Vanguard, and a few other service providers. Is Vanguard involved in this scheme too?

note: I had to register first, but it is free.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #115
117. I would focus my attention...
... on State Street and CitiStreet, if I were you.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=citistreet+%22stat...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #49
69. Is this the modern day BCCI?
Is John Kerry looking into this?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #69
76. Yes, and James Baker Stars as Clark Clifford
And yes, Kerry's people are "onto it," as are Hillary's and Waxman's.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #76
98. Are they going to help?
Have they known about it for very long?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #98
102. Yes, months - and in one Senator's case - years
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #49
118. Is State Street 'manipulating' the market?
It's as if the neo-cons demand the stock market to inflate before the election....and it magically does. And for NO good reason...

I figured someone was laundering the huge amounts of opium $ from Afghanistan into the market.

And yes, I like my hat!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #118
119. Some would say...
... that it's the natural outcome of all the "repatriated" earnings that corporations are now re-investing: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=repatriate+for...

What a nice euphemism for "amnesty for all those illegally-offshored funds you've had stashed for years, to engage in corporate tax evasion," don't you think?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #119
141. All those untaxed "offshore" accounts? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #141
142. You know, nice tropical tax havens...
... and other countries that cater to drug smugglers, gun runners, and the like.

"Reputable" havens with secret accounts and a multi-generation penchant for "discretion" where their "misunderstood" clients are concerned.

You know: the sorts of places that laundered Nazi gold, and transfer those skills today for the benefit of drug cartels.

The sorts of places where no reputable American company has any business operating:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22state+stree...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
46. Curiouser and Curiouser
Could be quite an interesting week!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #46
64. MassDems...
... should look into Mitt Romney's ties with State Street and its self-dealing law firm, Ropes & Gray.

Hint: the board Mitt created to restrict "activist" judges by "pre-qualifying" judicial nominees (read: applying a litmus test).

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=donovan+%22rop...

The Big Dig Collapse will pale in comparison to when this chunk of political concrete hits Mitt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
52. Maybe I'm thick but how does this gain traction as an October Surprise?
I mean we've heard for years about the ways that Dubya has been manipulated to hand out the Treasury to corporate interests. We've heard numerous ways in which Dead-eye Dick is handing over gov't contracts to Haliburton. I've yet to see the MSM pickup and run with any of this in a substantial manner. So how does Andy Card handing out sweetheart deals rate as anything but par for the course for this mis-administration?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. didn't Foley have it off with an intern in their vault?
that might have legs
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #52
61. Just pure speculation here
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 04:09 PM by OzarkDem
but what if State Street Bank & Trust were using access to pension accounts of government and public entities to steal and launder funds for GOP campaign contributions?

For example the campaign money laundering part of Ohio's Bureau of Worker's Comp investigation and scandal has been swept under the rug, but there have been many, many bits of evidence that something of that nature was being conducted on a large scale basis - it was even linked back to the Bush campaign...

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2...


Another search I did for this company turned up a link between them and Ohio Edison's pension fund

http://www.secinfo.com/d2rhr.b1x.htm

Tom Noe, the one who was caught juggling all these funds when his wife made some stupid remarks, was also suspected of skimming and laundering cash from the Ohio and Florida Turnpike Commissions when he worked for them

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

We've always suspected that there was a large campaign money laundering operation run by Bush and the GOP to fund all the races. Maybe State Street is the banker and Andy Card was the inside guy helping manage the fund.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #61
70. Now if that comes out, then I can see where this would have some serious
legs. Thanks for the speculation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #61
81. Securities Lending is what you want to look into
Public pension funds' securities are loaned out to "approved" entities.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=securities+len...

State Street makes it seem nice and innocuous. The pension fund even makes a little bit of money off the transaction.

Meanwhile, the "approved" entities use the borrowed securities in many fee-generating ways - without those fees being shared with the plan participants and beneficiaries.

Many State Street customers (large plans) have been surprised to discover that the list of "approved" entities even include State Street affiliates or joint ventures - meaning the ERISA fiduciary, State Street, is making money on the borrowed securities.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #81
93. starting to sound very much like the creative Enron financing entities
where massive amounts of "risk" ended up being backed up not with financing deals but with Enron's own stock thus if tanked - the 'backing' is worthless because it is now only backed up with valueless enron paper.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #93
104. Those Were Known as SPEs
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #104
106. now I remember... so is there that type of funky financing going on
as a way to suck existing equity out of funds?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #106
112. Now you're getting it
; )

Once America does "The Great American Pension Plan Check" and looks to see if the Bushiest of Banks is listed on their Form 5500s, others will begin to catch on too!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #112
121. please check out my post below in response to your SS privatization post
I have short time this evening - but would like to get your response. Thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #121
123. Feel free to e-mail me, too
The e-mail in my profile is fine.

Ides of October
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #123
137. sent
a pm - go to the lobby (top of the page option) and you will see the pm message.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #61
86. Cowman from Ohio BWC and to the SERS fund:
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2...

with pertinent snips:

In 2000, Mr. Cowman, the bureau's investment chief at the time, wrote internal letters that praised the first coin fund and other letters to Mr. Noe that counseled him on how to cope with a critical bureau audit.

Mr. Cowman helped the coin dealer write at least one business letter to answer criticisms set forth by bureau auditor Keith Elliott, whose job was to look for weaknesses in the bureau's investments.

In one letter, Mr. Cowman assured the coin dealer that the "nightmare" of the audit would be over soon. He even asked Mr. Noe for the go-ahead on sharing a letter with Mr. Elliott, his colleague.

On July 13, 2000, Mr. Cowman wrote a letter to Mr. Noe requesting copies of purchase invoices and canceled checks for the ongoing internal audit. The audit showed fundamental problems with the bureau's relationship with Mr. Noe, but the issues were largely ignored. "Hopefully we can end this nightmare ... when you and I meet with Keith," Mr. Cowman wrote to Mr. Noe.

Mr. Cowman served as Mr. Noe's unofficial scribe in dealing with Mr. Elliott and wrote the body of at least one letter that Mr. Noe then cut-and-pasted under his own letterhead and signature, internal memos show.


and

A note from Mr. Cowman to Mr. Noe on the fax cover sheet said: "Before I let Keith see it, I wanted to make sure it was OK with you. Please review it and let me know."

The letter addressed several key areas of concern with the fund and was meant to inform Mr. Elliott about changes Mr. Noe would make, including ceasing pay advances to coin traders against future profits, improving record keeping, and ensuring that coin trades among fund managers would be at market-rate prices and not at the coin-fund expense.

A later draft of the letter shows that it was changed: A provision that Mr. Noe maintain the financial records of those he lends money to was removed.

Mr. Elliott, in the audit, also was concerned that the value of the coin fund was difficult to assess because of the esoteric nature of rare coins.

Mr. Cowman responded that the bureau would have to trust Mr. Noe about the fund's value.


and

Mr. Cowman, who works for the state teachers' pension fund and left the bureau before the scandal, has said that because of the state investigations into Mr. Noe, he would not comment.

In another Toledoblade article we get this:
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2...
Mr. Cowman, the former chief investment officer for the bureau and now director of investment for the Ohio School Employees Retirement System, said he knew Mr. Noe had investments in real estate but said they were short term, which he defined as less than a year. He didn't recall the specific investments, saying there were too many managers to know every single investment.

"We pretty well let our managers use their discretion," he said.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #52
78. Chief of Staff Resignations are Triage
Remember Iran-Contra and "plausible deniability"?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #78
92. Who or how
is this going to come out? If its been covered up and ignored by the SEC and FBI for this long, who is going to take action now?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #92
95. Some Dem Leaders...
... have played this very intelligently.

As for me, I've got these sites bookmarked and alerted:

http://www.democrats.reform.house.gov /

http://www.shareholdersonline.org

http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?company=jorstad...

http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?company=smith+d...

http://www.pogo.org /

The fuse was lit on this months ago. Enjoy the fireworks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #95
101. is this on the radar of Public Citizen?
Esp if this abuts with changes in the regulatory world (esp those that allow abuses) seems that it would be up their ally.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #101
105. The Quakers have it...
... not sure about Public Citizen or CREW.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #105
108. AFSC? or FCNL?
family has connections to the Quakers and their work. Wouldn't have thought this was up their alley unless they stumbled on it from a different direction.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #108
111. FCNL
Their offices are right by the Senate office buildings, where I have been spending way too much of my time these days.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
62. You mention the "short-selling scandal" upthread.
Which scandal? Not the UA and AA pre 9/11?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #62
74. See Stockgate
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=stockgate+faul...

The Faulking Truth has done yeoman's work on this aspect of the Bush corporate cabal's crimes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
66. Ron Kaufman certainly loolks interesting
http://www.whitehouseforsale.org/ContributorsAndPayback...
Connections with Indian gaming and former finance chair of the Republican Governors' Association -- why am I instantly reminded of Jack Abramoff?

Oh, yeah, maybe because of this:
http://www.texasobserver.org/article.php?aid=1800

Scanlon, only a few years after he finished paying off his college loans, contributed $500,000 to the Republican Governors Associationthe single largest donation it received in 2002.

Kaufman was with RGA as of October 2001 but seems to have left some time in 2002 -- I'm having trouble pinning down the date, though.

Kaufman was also associated with charges of voter suppression in New Jersey:
http://www.votelaw.com/blog/blogdocs/GOP_Ballot_Securit...

Republican leaders vigorously and publicly defended the program as a legal, necessary procedure to prevent vote fraud. We are delighted to be a partner with the Republican Party in New Jersey in their ballot security program to ensure an honest election, claimed RNC chairman Richards. Anyone opposed to ballot security obviously must be supportive of election fraud. We would have been cheated out of that race if we hadnt been alert. Ronald Kaufman, regional director of the RNC for New Jersey, New York, and New England who had designed the ballot security program and who had hired Kelly, stood by the New Jersey operation. Ballots security has been a problem nationally for some time, he claimed, and his New Jersey program was not intended to keep minorities from voting, it was aimed solely at preventing vote fraud. Furthermore, he thought it was a success, and planned to use the New Jersey program as
a model for future campaigns.

Kaufman dismissed charges made against the program, claiming that no one in the RNC had instructed anyone to wear guns, that the armbands were to distinguish the security team from loiterers, and that the choice of precincts was based on voter records and history of vote fraud rather than racial composition. William Greener III, director of communications for the RNC, wholly endorsed the program and vowed that his organization would continue legal and proper ballot security measures to prevent vote fraud. When he learned of the $10 million lawsuit brought by the DNC, his response was, We havent done anything wrong. We have nothing to fear.

Clearly there's more to learn about this guy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #66
73. Much more, and some have already dug up the yearbooks
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #73
79. You're getting the blogospere all worked up
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 04:25 PM by DemReadingDU
Most stories like this end up getting nipped in the bud. But if it indeed blossoms this week...please stay safe, don't fly in small planes, and get a bodyguard!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #79
84. God, Guns, and Gays in 04; Perjury, Pensions, and Public Corruption...
... in 2006.

Checkmate, Karl.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #84
89. WooHoo!
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 04:41 PM by DemReadingDU
We'd like nothing better than bring down this entire cabal in 2006!

But what about those voting machines? They own those too. How in the heck can we vote them out of office, when they're stuffing the ballot box and tampering with the electronic machines!

edit to add...
9/12/06 Richard Hayes Phillips Declaration: "Direct Evidence of Ballot Tampering"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #89
91. Buy Diebold Stock...
... and file a derivative shareholder lawsuit.

The lawsuit could allege that Diebold's corporate officers have failed to take steps to protect the company's good name and goodwill, thus wasting shareholder value.

The remedies sought could be an independent verification process, to test the machines actually used, selected from a cross-section of American precincts.

The stock ticker for Diebold is DBD.

Dems need to start becoming owners in the key corporations that supress our civil liberties, and then behaving like owners - e.g., by filing suit to force the directors and officers to obey the law.

Terminators - sentient robots that turned on us? No. We created corporations instead (but it's not too late to re-program them).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
catmandu57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #84
109. By god sir you're making me laugh
great deep belly laughs, thank you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #109
116. Laughter is good medicine
And he who checkmates Karl laughs best.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
suziedemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #84
352. why are you giving all this away now - 3 days early?
this all sounds too good to be true. I just don't know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #352
353. I wholeheartedly welcome honest skepticism...
... and I realize that in today's day and age, it's hard to invest too much trust.

Forgive the reference, but it's apt: doveryai, no proveryai.

"Trust, but verify."

In today's modern Information Age, you have at your fingertips - literally - the means necessary to do some fact-checking.

1. Start by checking your own pension plan(s) - present and any past employers. If the Form 5500 shows State Street as trustee and/or service provider, at least you have a personal reason to invest a little more time in the next step.

2. Look at what the Polaroid employees, retirees, and their dependents have been put through:

a. http://www.erisafraud.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1085 (note the case documents)

b. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=polaroid+%22st... (interlocking boards of Polaroid and State Street, at the same time that STT let the pension plan shares fall to a dime; the same could happen to your plan)

3. Pick up any other sub-thread, and do a little due diligence. Don't just express your skepticism; apply it. Test the assertions, using resources you trust. If you like the NYT, see what they've written about State Street. If you have access to LEXIS/NEXIS, use that.

The bottom line is that I don't mind skepticism. The facts bear out the assertions.

Finally, as to why this is getting out now: you'll have to invest a smidge of trust when I say that months of careful planning have gone into ensuring that the truth about Halliburton, State Street, and other affiliates of the BushCo. Cabal (e.g., BakerBotts, Vinson & Elkins, Ropes & Gray) gets out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
suziedemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #353
360. well good luck to you!
I spent about 2 1/2 hours reading some of your links and I'm exhausted. I have no doubt that these people would want to get their grubby hands in the huge pension plan cookie jar. BUT, don't overestimate the "average" American. Develop a Readers Digest / Executive Summary. PLEASE!!! I've been reading for hours and all I know is State Street Bank is up to some funny business with all these pension funds they handle.

Can't wait until Friday!!! Good luck. Stay safe!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #360
362. Suzie, if you think it's exhausting reading it...
... try putting yourself in Congressman Waxman's head.

; )

"Develop a Readers Digest / Executive Summary. PLEASE!!!"

I promise. It's been done, and you're not the first to complain that it's a lot to take in. But I am among those who believe that the MSM filters the primary documents, without also giving us the "backup materials," or the "primary documents," so that we can double-check their homework.

In this day and age, there is no excuse for that. Hire journalism interns for dirt cheap, and keep them busy scanning and posting the documents for the "value add" to the story that appears in print.

Newspaper subscriptions would skyrocket if they did that.

1. If you take our paper (e.g., the NYT) you will receive authentication codes for the value-add site.

2. When you encounter a story in our newspaper that has this symbol (insert symbol), you may use those codes to go online and see the primary documents for yourself. This saves us newsprint, and gives you - our readership - greater confidence in our reporting methods.

*shrug*

Seems like a win-win to me.

So please forgive me for flooding you with the primary documents, without the primer version out there first. But if the Spirit moves you, pick one tiny sub-thread that piqued your interest, and do your due diligence.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
97. If this turns out to be true, it boggles the mind as to how deeply
these criminals have their tentacles entangled into the economic and power infrastructure of not just the US but the entire world.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #97
107. See the Corporate Library's Tool...
... for all the interlocked directorships in the key Bush cabal companies.

Nell Minow, eldest daughter of Kennedy FCC Chairman Newton Minow, is the head of The Corporate Library: http://www.thecorporatelibrary.com/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
banana republican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
103. see the attached
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #103
113. Thanks, and Please Note that...
... former State Street Chairman and CEO Marshall N. Carter is now the head of the NYSE regulatory arm.

His father, Lt. General Marshall S. Carter, was Deputy Director of the CIA and Director of the NSA (and history records that it was he who showed President Kennedy the first photographic evidence of the missile bunkers in Cuba).

The younger Carter refused to let David A. Smith or his partner, Patrick Jorstad, speak at the 2000 Annual Meeting - and the company has refused for more than 6 years to turn over the videotape of Carter's outrageous conduct: http://www.google.com/search?as_q=videotape+carter&num=...

The younger Carter is co-author, along with State Street executive Bill Shipman, of the principal book on Social Security privatization: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=car...

Shipman, Carter's co-author, is also co-chair of the Cato Institute's Project on Social Security Privatization: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=cat...

And Bush has said - as recently as the last month - that he plans to make another go at Social Security.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #113
120. I was just about to ask about SS privatization
A number of years ago, when I had some time, the attempts (eventually successful) at shutting down PUHCA caught my eye, as did the apparent (later proven) market manipulation of the California energy markets. Too long to explain why, even though I have minimal training in the areas, these caught my attention but they did and I did some digging to try to figure out how the conditions were put in place that allowed for the whole dereg configuration in Ca to occur. I was able to get info on the state level from a group out of Santa Monica that had written a blistering and convincing piece demonstrating that it was likely market manipulation rather than the then current explanations for the rolling blackouts in the CA energy crisis (later proven correct). On the federal level I was able to get great information from a primary researcher at Public Citizen. Long story short - the modus operandi was to determine the preconditions needed to allow for the creation of a new 'market' that would not be regulated in the usual way - and to do so not through lobbying for legislative changes, but first through massive lobbying on the administrative/executive side and get rule change after rule change (in how laws were interpreted through) over a period of time. Then with the administrative branch in tow (and sold on the ideas) begin the lobbying of legislative branches to pass the enabling laws. In California the deregulation was passed through the legislature in record time for legislation of that magnitude - and unbelievably it was passed without a system designed or even delineated for what deregulation would look like in the state. An organization was established to create the form of deregulation and a date was set by which the deregulation would begin. And who was sitting on that task force but.. Ken Lay. Even Ross Perot's gang was marketing its consulting services to energy companies - prior to the state's implementation of the new plan - on how to 'game' the system.

I read an article linked above on the shorting scandal - and got the gist of it. And had a very sickening feeling. These folks have an end in mind (imagine the amount of paper money to be made on massive market manipulations for what might look like minimal gains - except when added together - once HUGE reserves of additional money are dumped in the mix visavi privatized stock accounts previously reserved as social security treasuries.) Daaaaaaammmmn.

All along the whole privatization thing has been a naked political ploy (since my short dc stint in the eighties it was clear that the GOP viewed ss as a loser issue for their party - and that if they could divorce the dems from it that they could take over ... rewritten in the nineties /2000s to they could amass permanent one-party status). As the bushies made it clear they were going for the gold - it also became clear that this was also a vested financial markets giveaway in terms of massive fees.

If we also have a massive rewritting of rules at the exec level that clears the way for less and less regulation and security from market manipulation... geeez I can barely get my head around the potential damage to the country and its citizens.

I urge you to get in touch with Public Citizen. Esp those who had been deep in rooting out the hows in terms of federal level enabling of energy deregulation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #120
122. Next time I'm at the Library of Congress ...
... which is fairly frequently these days, I'll swing by to see the good folks at Public Citizen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
110. the biggest of crimes have never been explained to the people
Ask a hundred people today what they know about Smedley Butler, or Promis, or CIA drug running, or yellowcake documents, Rev. Moon in bed with the Bushes, or or a hundred other horrible attacks on the people and the Constitution, and you will find few if any who have any knowledge.

How can this info you hold be shaped into something everyone can grasp?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #110
114. Excellent Question...
... luckily, that very question has been turned over for many months now, and the marketing plan is crisp.

That said, suggestions are welcome.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #114
124. This gets me all excited! I've waited so long
for their Greed to bite them in the ass.

Using pension funds to fund repugnant's campaigns? Is that close?

And is the Derivative house of cards about to fall?

Thanks for all the links! Let us know if you need any help!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #124
126. in my short read I would guess these funds are used to
get very obscenely rich - and throw a little to a slush fund to keep paying off legislators and administrators. I would bet this is a HUGE scheme to benefit a relatively small bunch at a massive rate of return. A group that has come to view the american taxpayers as a source of huge 'income'. Think SS privatization - how much money that would dump into the market - that could then be played to manipulate ups and downs for companies extracting HUGE wealth along the way - with a portion going for a slushfund. So what if folks are impoverished along the way... "personal responsibility for retirement/ss" - You're fault! laughing to the bank - go the arrogant greedy monsters feeling smug as their own intelligence to set such a thing up certainly is just enterprenuerialism... surely they are getting insanely wealthy on the backs of the newly impoverished... due to their... superiority. GAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGG :puke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #126
129. It's a short trip...
... to the bank, as they're laughing *inside* the Bushiest of Banks, State Street.

Seriously. Look at FreeERISA.com. Use their free tools to overlay the tight Congressional districts with the companies whose pensions are paying fees to State Street.

This is a national issue the Democrats can tap.

"Is the Bushiest of Banks picking your pension's pocket? Engage in the Great American Pension Plan Check-up, and look up *your* plan's service provider list, to see if State Street or CitiStreet is raking in fees on your company's pension plan."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #129
135. While i have a bias... I would take a graphic exchange that the public
understands and tie it to this story. Folks finally *got* that there was serious market manipulation of the western energy markets - esp in california. Use the "grandma millie" phone call of the cackling energy traders giddy with the excitement of making millions while screwing grandma millie - then tie it to pension plans and potential social security accounts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #135
139. Amen!
Too many pols wring their hands and say, "The average American cannot grasp this."

Horsecrap.

The fault lies within: those hand-wringing pols should look in the mirror and say, "I'm supposedly a leader. It is my responsibility to explain this, and to make advanced backup materials available, as the public begins to grasp the basics."

Thank you for displaying greater faith in the American people than many public officials give them credit for.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #124
127. One hand washes the other with this cabal...
... but now one hand is wringing the other.

They've been caught - and the evidence is every bit as compelling as Mark Foley's IMs.

As for help:

1. Educate yourself about the issues. Patrick Jorstad's site explores many of the key issues. For a special treat, look at the Draft Settlement Agreement that State Street tried to force David A. Smith to sign: http://www.shareholdersonline.org/keydocs.htm . A short biographical sketch of the two partners - together now for 12 years in spite of the likes of Karl Rove - is also available: http://www.shareholdersonline.org/proponentbios.htm .

2. Donate your time. If you live in a state with a close race, call up your local candidate and clue them in.

3. Share your suggestions. The group that has been organized to air these issues is one that welcomes ideas.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
125. May I give you your 22 K&R
I will also pray for your safe keeping. You have actually given me some hope. Thank You and I hope you are right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #125
131. Thanks, and my...
... overworked guardian angels thank you, too.

: )
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
133. HAHA! Welcome to DU!
:hi: You're one, smart cookie. ;)



Let's hope Martial Law isn't declared before State Street folks et al are put under oath and hearings are held. We are at the precipice...



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
134. Are you suggesting that American cities have had their pension funds
essentially raided by the Bush cabal through cronies at State Street Bank?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #134
140. You be the judge
State Street's bundled campaign contributions to state and municipal treasurers are aimed at securing sweetheart contract deals - the plan participants' / beneficiaries' best interests be damned:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22state+stree...

There was once a website that listed some of the more prominent state and municipal treasurers who'd received bundled contributions from STT, then turned around and awarded contracts.

Let me see if I can find that. If I remember, some of America's biggest cities were involved.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #140
143. San Diego had its pension funds go poof. Also, Markey & Miller said
Careful Investigation of Pension Funds Needed

Reps. Ed Markey, D-Mass., and George Miller, D-Calif., are requesting that the Government Accountability Office (GAO) investigate whether the federal government is doing enough to monitor fraud, conflicts of interest and illegal activities in pension funds. An August 2005 Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) report first raised the issue. Based on that report, the congressmen want GAO to review the steps taken by the SEC, Department of Labor and Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC). The PBGCwhich takes over pension plans that are terminated by companieshas assumed responsibility for 4,000 company plans in the past three years, leaving it with a $23 billion deficit. If money managers are giving American workers another reason to worry, then the federal government must intercede on workers behalf, Miller said.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #143
144. Elaine Chao and Eugene Scalia ...
... personally lobbied the Federal judge to install State Street as the Bush Administration's trusted "special fiduciary" in the Enron case. After all, they needed a trusted minion to serve as an early warning system / spy network to figure out who the ringleaders in the angry Enron's retirees' group turned out to be.

Elaine is the Secretary of Labor. Eugene was the Solicitor of Labor, and his daddy is Antonin.

As for the PBGC: they have given sweetheart Federal contracts to State Street during the Bush Admin...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22state+street%22...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #144
174. As soon as I saw State Street, it was familiar.
They took over the hourly pension plans for LTV Steel, when the went bust. And the numbers have been wrong ever since. No one gets what they're supposed to be getting.

I'm going to PM you for some more information.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #174
176. Or just e-mail me at...
williehorton@holbrookhooligans.org

Why Willie Horton? Because Holbrook Hooligan #1, Ron Kaufman, was the architect of the Willie Horton ads against Dukakis in 88, and the Ghost of Dirty Campaigns Past is pissed: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=wil...

Why Holbrook Hooligans? Because Holbrook Hooligan #2, Andy Card, is the brother-in-law of Kaufman, and the high school chum of State Street Chairman and CEO Ron Logue, Holbrook Hooligan #3:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=log...

When he panicked at the 2006 stockholders' meeting this past April, Logue had one shareholder arrested, and another ejected. Details can be found here: http://www.shareholdersonline.org /

State Street is the Bushiest Bank of all, serving as the Bush Family's trusted trustee to hush up the Resolution Trust Corp. matters, and serving as the "special fiduciary" to hush up Kenny Boy Lay's use of the Enron pension funds as funny money: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22state+street%22...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=eugene+scalia+...

State Street is also the company that Dick Cheney trusted to land the Halliburton employees' pensions (and if it has Dick's seal of approval, it has to be good, right?)...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22state+stree...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #176
198. I can't find anything on google about hortonhooligans.org
Is this a working e-mail?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #198
205. I mean holbrookhooligans.org (eom)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #205
214. That's because it's of original coinage...
... and it aptly describes these three "Holbrook Hooligans" - who hail from Holbrook, MA, and who are (if you'll pardon the pun) "thick as thieves".

1. Holbrook Hooligan #1 - Andy Card, disgraced White House Chief of Staff. The real story about why he abruptly aborted his run for the record held by Sherman Adams earlier this year is about to come out.

2. Holbrook Hooligan #2 - Ron Kaufman, Card's brother-in-law, and architect of so many dirty campaign tricks they're impossible to catalog here. His most infamous, perhaps, is the Willie Horton ad campaign.

3. Holbrook Hooligan #3 - Ron Logue, Chairman and CEO of State Street, a company many have never heard of, though it's every bit as much of a BushCo. enterprise as Diebold. Even Iraqeteers need bankers, and State Street is the Bushiest Bank of them all.

http://www.google.com/search?q=logue+card+holbrook+%22s...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=ron...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
146. did I miss something?
Is there a Bush family member directly involved with State Street?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #146
148. Andy Boy Card is Like Family
; )
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #148
153. yes, but...
I was looking for a shirttail relative, perhaps. So many Walkers and Ellises in the world, you know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #153
156. How about this? S&L Connection
State Street was the Bush Family's trusted trustee to hush up the full scope and scale of the S&L bailout, in conjunction with RTC:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=rtc+%22state+s...

This aspect will come out via the Duncan Hunter land deal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
149. A Card or Note to Mr. Jorstad or Mr. Smith...
... might really buck them up right now.

Mr. Smith faces his next court hearing over the ridiculous trespass charge - pressed by State Street CEO Ron Logue - next week.

http://www.shareholdersonline.org
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
150. Is the thread "Duncan Hunter Caught In Land Scam" part of it?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

See post #2 -- State Street Bank is mentioned.

Welcome to DU, IdesOfOctober!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #150
152. Yes, Bushiest Bank was the trusted Bush Family trustee...
... to quiet up the Resolution Trust Corp. bailout of the S&L crisis:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22state+stree...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #152
163. Thanks. It'd be nice to see this gain traction
It's obviously due any attention it gets, but so are many other well-documented crimes this regime has committed. Nothing personal, but I've about given up hope that anyone can touch these bastards anymore.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #163
165. Never give up hope
America has faced worse crises. This, too, shall pass.

"I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help." -- Psalms 121:1

Even read strictly as poetry, it always reminds me that help comes unbidden, from unseen or unsuspecting quarters, at just the right time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
151. Welcome to DU!
I can hardly believe my eyes.
If this takes bushco down, we will all be better off.
:yourock:
:dem:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #151
154. Two tenacious whistleblowers...
Patrick Jorstad and David Smith, have been doing the research in obscurity for years:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=patrick+jorsta...

Andy Card's high school buddy stepped way over the line when he had David arrested and Patrick ejected from this year's annual meeting, and key members of Congress have now sat up and paid attention.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #154
166. Is this the David Smith who recently joined DU?
Pardon me if I'm slow or obtuse here.

And have you considered taking this to a journo who has a platform?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #166
172. Yes, that's the one...
... and plenty of "foundation" coverage has already run. Anything you can do to help the story get out to other channels is welcome, and I suspect (strongly) that there will be significant, in-depth building on the pre-existing foundation coverage on the efforts of Smith & Jorstad.

But if your favorite cousin is an editor of a top-tier paper, by all means ... *please* pass it on.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #172
184. I will pass it on to a couple of people
Has WaPo passed on it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #184
190. Thanks
The primary docs really do stand up to scrutiny, and even the most skeptical editors eventually come to the conclusion that it can't *all* be put down to coincidence.

As for specific papers passing or not passing: I'd prefer not to say. I've found that some papers who pass initially have come back, and have ended up doing some of the better stories in the end on things they initially passed on. If you have contacts at the Washington Post (or any other paper), you can always send it to them, and if we've already talked, we'll figure it out quickly enough.

I try to be empathetic to the plight of modern newsrooms; I've had more than one anguished reporter say, "My editors and the lawyers are just too nervous to run with anything, until someone else does first."

That said, if Benjamin Franklin or Thomas Paine were alive today, they'd be blogosphere stars - the lawyers and the editors be damned, because they wouldn't exist in their enterprises.

: )
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
155. why did you bring this info to DU?
Just asking.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #155
158. That's an easy one...
... because the Ides of October are upon us, and the time is now!

: )

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #158
160. it may be easy...
...but it doesn't sound like an answer. Why not dailykos? Or TPM?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #160
162. I have contacted media outlets...
... with the story, as have others. By bringing it to DU, I hope that other channels for getting the story out there will be brought to my attention.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #162
206. Wow! Check out this diary at Daily Kos tonight on Duncan Hunter's
land deal! I believe State Street was mentioned somewhere in the thread. The title of the Diary was:



BREAKING: Another GOP scandal brings CA 52nd into play

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/10/8/1846/80425

Check the 14th comment down where the commenter mentions how the county has been rocked by scandals, including 'pension funds'!

The diary is now near the top of the recommended list with over 240 comments so far. Also, Rinaldi, Duncan Hunter's opponent came to the thread to comment.

There is a linked article in the diary to a story on the land deal featured in the San Diego Union Tribune, which the diarist says is a Conservative newspaper.

The diarist makes this suggestion, so he may be interested in this information:

Research!!! We have had success before in finding new information that ends up fueling the larger narrative... let's dig.

I haven't yet read the links you provided so I'm not familiar enough with the details to be able to explain it to anyone else.

Have you thought of contacting Rinaldi's campaign about this?

Also, won't this be seen now that you have posted it here? Are the 'perps' aware that their secret may be out?

These people scan the blogosphere for information all the time so I'm sure by now they're aware that of this thread.

Otoh, getting out into the blogosphere may spur the media to try to get a scoop before they are scooped again by bloggers ~

Thanks for the info. Like others here I am very skeptical about stopping these people. They seem to resurrect themselves repeatedly no matter how many times they are caught .... but maybe there is a straw that breaks the camel's back, or as in the tale of the Snowflake, the one that finally breaks the branch.

Going to read some of our links to get a better grasp of the story ~ thanks for posting. Be safe ~
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #206
215. That's because State Street was the Resolution Trust...
... trustee, trusted by the Bush Family Syndicate to help hush things up.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=%22...

Want to read something truly disturbing, about how a family was besieged in their own home?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=rtc...

The Winter Hill Gang has nothing on this crew. Whitey Bulger is small potatoes, compared to what this organized crime syndicate has done.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
157. Between Abramoff, Kenny boy, and DUHbya's manipulation of the system,
I'm starting to see a pattern. Instead of producing anything worthwhile, why not just game the system to maximize wealth and power?

Most of these people strike me as never having done an honest day's work in their lives. Also, the type who go to church/synagogue as if it were a country club, a place to do business with the well-connected.

Never mind that workers could be exploited, average citizens could lose their life savings, or the Constitution could be left in shreds.

Only one criteria is worth considering: What's in it for me?

You've made one helluva splash, Ides. I think you'll find the DU crowd respectfully skeptical and very curious.

I'm wondering just how much of an insider you are...SEC? Justice?

Newsprism
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #157
161. Respectful skepticism is...
... as American as any attribute I can conceive of.

Your take on the elites involved is apt. Luckily, there are always those who grow up to become a "traitor to their class," but a "patriot to their country." Those are the ones who quietly bring down tyrants.

Remember Eliot Richardson?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=eliot+richards...

Republican Administrations are especially vulnerable to these true patriots.

As for "how much of an insider" I am ... *chuckle* ... tempting.

; )
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #161
167. Aw c'mon, it's just between you, me, and the lamppost.
This is more fun than waiting on the Fitzgerald indictments.

I'm starting to fantasize about a political bloodletting on Friday the 13th, a Saturday Night Massacre of resignations on the 14th, and maybe some well-deserved backstabbing on the steps of the Senate on Sunday the 15th, all leading up to a righteous baccanalia in November.

When the First Amendment plays second fiddle in the American Third Reich, the Fourth Estate must force insiders to take the Fifth, leading the sixth sense to see dead Republican careers in a Democratic seventh heaven. 8 9 10 let's do it again, only next time the issue will involve Caesar more directly as his troops start to wonder, 1, 2, 3 what're we fightin' for?

Stay in the shadows as you must, Ides, and when you slip back into the darkness, you'll go with our blessings.

Newsprism

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #167
170. Well, that lamppost doesn't look reliable...
LOL.

; )

But as a consolation prize, in case you missed these:


1. Smith's letter to Senators Byrd and Rockefeller in late September about Halliburton: http://www.shareholdersonline.org/pdf/092006senateinves...

2. Jorstad's SEC filings about State Street: http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?company=jorstad...

3. Smith's SEC filings about Halliburton: http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?company=smith+d...

4. The news coverage about Smith's Halliburton activities: http://www.google.com/search?q=halliburton+nigeria+brib...

5. The news coverage about Jorstad's State Street activities: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=jor...

There's plenty out there in the public eye already - but my, oh, my - when Waxman gets the gavel in January, Katy bar the door!

; )
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #170
178. Ah, a clue perhaps?
Henry Waxman is the ranking Democrat on the Committee on Gov't Reform--he also sits on (but doesn't yet chair) the Committee on Energy and Commerce's Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations.

Either way, he could bang the gavel hard on Duhbya's head.

And with John Conyers chairing the Judiciary Committee, maybe Duhbya should invest in a good Roman helm...

You're tireless, Ides. I hope this pans out the way you suggest it will. And thanks for an intriguing evening.

Are you a Hill staffer, perhaps? (My money's on an executive branch entity, where many career employees are quietly, and maybe not so quietly, furious at Bush's imperious ways.)

The only place I know of where tyrants regularly get theirs is in the world of fiction, where little guys like me are in charge:
Like Lesser Analia, Post-Collapse America, Dalondria, and (though a far, far lesser tyrant) Capital City.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #178
179. A clue
When the post-mortem on this story is written, it can truthfully be said that alarmed patriots from all three branches worked together quietly and effectively - and it can truthfully be said that "ordinary" citizens proved themselves to be worthy Sons and Daughters of Liberty: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sons_of_liberty

Which of those four categories - Legislative, Executive, Judiciary, or Sovereign (the People) - I fall into will come out.

The missing element? The Fourth Estate has been the dog that didn't bark, and part of the post-mortem should investigate why that has been until recently.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #179
182. I'll quit guessing about the WHO...
and start guessing about the WHY.

Why seed the liberal blogosphere with this kind of info?

Trying to elicit a noisy reaction from the right wing spin machine? Putting the squeeze on those likely to be pressured to resign, or be indicted? Hoping to push someone to get out in front of this and turn state's evidence or name names? Encouraging small players to roll over on big players? Pressuring subjects to make a panicked mistake?

Shaming the MSM into covering the damn story for a change?

The best ways to keep a dog from barking are to scare the crap out of it, or to toss it an occasional hushpuppy. I think the MSM is full of hungry lapdogs with their tails between their legs, grateful for the occasional hushpuppy they get while cowering at the feet of the Master, whom they hope won't kick them off the farm like he did those loud and vigilant watchdogs.

Satire as thick as a president's skull
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #182
187. The WHY is easy
"Why seed the liberal blogosphere with this kind of info?"

1. First and foremost, to bring hope. The fuse really was lit on this story months ago.

2. To welcome anyone with ideas for last-minute tweaks to contribute.

3. To welcome anyone to suggest novel channels for spreading the word.

4. To send a defiant message to those who tried to stop us. We prevailed.

"Trying to elicit a noisy reaction from the right wing spin machine? Putting the squeeze on those likely to be pressured to resign, or be indicted? Hoping to push someone to get out in front of this and turn state's evidence or name names? Encouraging small players to roll over on big players? Pressuring subjects to make a panicked mistake?"

You give them much too much credit. Too many of them have behaved like Grand Moff Tarkin, refusing to even contemplate getting off the Death Star. Some of them, even now, don't realize that their sense of invulnerability is unfounded.

; )

"Shaming the MSM into covering the damn story for a change?"

There are still a few journalists out there with gumshoe instincts, believe it or not. The fact-checking is done or nearly done for the in-depth pieces.

"The best ways to keep a dog from barking are to scare the crap out of it, or to toss it an occasional hushpuppy. I think the MSM is full of hungry lapdogs with their tails between their legs, grateful for the occasional hushpuppy they get while cowering at the feet of the Master, whom they hope won't kick them off the farm like he did those loud and vigilant watchdogs."

That could spawn a whole new thread unto itself - but you're preaching to the choir.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #179
185. Thank you!
I love mysteries, appreciate all you have done!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #185
191. I promise not to pull...
... a Mark Felt.

Careful records have been kept, and all will be revealed in due course.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #179
188. Fourth Estate?
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 10:07 PM by conscious evolution
do you mean the media?Could you expand on this?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #188
193. Yes, they haven't exactly lived up to the Jeffersonian notion...
... of a free press acting as the People's watchdog lately.

There are notable exceptions with old school instincts, but by and large, they're a lazy lot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #193
195. Lazy?
Or part of the problem?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #195
197. A little of Column A, a little of Column B ...
... and still reeling from the power of the Internet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #197
199. Any recommendations for dealing w/column B?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #199
216. Yes, Competition and Compassion
Competition

MSM journalists who have pretty plaques on their walls from "reputable" journalism programs really get the message when they're scooped on a story they didn't fight hard enough for with their editors.

Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Paine didn't have to fight with editors or nervous lawyers to put out their news and opinion.

We are their heirs. They expected us to advance these freedoms, not retreat from them and abandon them.

Compassion

Rather than gloating and saying, "I told you so," when a reporter who passed on a story calls you back, show compassion and be gracious. S/he has to feed his/her family, and the pressures of modern newsrooms are intense. Put yourself in their shoes: their gut may be screaming, "This is an important story!" - yet, they still have to satisfy their editors and the lawyers.

Ever see The Insider, the back story on how the 60 Minutes producers were forced to punt the story of Dr. Jeffrey Wigand? It's a fairly accurate portrayal of the pressures that corporate elites bring to bear on the MSM when an important story is about to break.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #179
203. here here!
hear here?

focus! whack!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
159. Recommend this thread for the "greatest "
This needs to move to the top
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
merbex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
164. As a MA resident I'm familar with State Street Bank - who isn't around
the greater Boston area?

Is there any implications for MA governor's race?

Or is this story strictly national?

Given that the nation's attention (and the media) seems riveted on the Foley scandal will this State Street connection get the attention you think it deserves?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #164
168. Look into State Street bundled campaign contributions
... in MA races, particularly for the MA Treasurer's office (past and present).

http://www.mass.gov/ocpf /

Former GOP Treasurer Joe Malone and Nick Lopardo - the disgraced State Street Director who authored the destruction of evidence memo - were thick as thieves, so to speak:

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=nick+lopardo+destroy+...

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=nick+lopardo+malone+b...

That, plus Mitt Romney's ties to State Street and Ropes & Gray (the self-dealing law firm to State Street; think BakerBotts/Halliburton) will keep Romney from ever becoming a viable national candidate:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=rom...

Look into the contribs to Romney and Healey.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
169. The business of America is business
As a sidenote:
One of Chao's patrons has been Heritage Foundation donor Maurice "Hank" Greenberg, a pro-China lobbyist whose insurance company does business with China. Chao serves as director of an insurance company that jointly owns a Lippo Group subsidiary with the Chinese government. Lippo is controlled by the Riady family and is at the center of the Chinagate fund-raising scandal.

More here on Elaine Chao:
CHANGING OF THE GUARD
Elaine Chao's ties
to Chinese leader
Expert: Bush's Labor nominee
'family friend' of Jiang Zemin
Posted: January 13, 2001
1:00 a.m. Eastern



By Jon Dougherty
2001WorldNetDaily.com

President-elect George W. Bush's choice to head the Labor Department, Elaine Chao, and her father have extensive personal ties to communist China's President Jiang Zemin -- contact described as "regular" and "deep," WorldNetDaily has learned.

According to an Asian affairs expert who spoke on condition of anonymity, Chao -- whom Bush selected to head the Labor Department after his first choice, Linda Chavez, withdrew from consideration over charges she harbored an illegal alien in 1992 -- allegedly characterized as "racist" the findings of a May 1999 report on Chinese espionage, released by a select committee chaired by Rep. Christopher Cox, R-Calif.

The Sino expert told WND the relationship with Jiang stems from Ms. Chao's father, James S. C. Chao, who attended college with the Chinese president before fleeing for Taiwan in 1949, in advance of the communist government takeover of the mainland. Chao's father resides in New York City and, years ago, founded a ship brokerage and agency business, Foremost Maritime Corp. -- a lucrative shipping firm that ships goods from the U.S. to China and much of Asia.

"To do this would require one having friends in high places," or "Guanxi" (the Chinese term for political connections), the source told WorldNetDaily. "The real story here is that Ms. Chao's father -- and most likely herself -- has been a family friend of the leaders of communist China for practically all of her life."

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=21327
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #169
171. But AIG is Fresh as the Driven...
... four letter word that begins with "s".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
173. Crikey! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
merbex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
175. Have you cross posted this at any other progressive site?
This seems like a funny time to post what could be(should, probably)a huge story; a holiday weekend and you post it on a Sunday.

Traffic at any blog or chat forum is down significantly on a weekend such as this but will pick up on Tuesday. I can only imagine what kind of traffic your post would have then - during a normal weekday.

Thankfully, your post has been nominated for the Greatest page and will get even more attention that way.

Have you sent this to the Boston Globe? Or posted on their blog?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #175
177. Method to the madness...
... of posting on a holiday weekend:

1. Some only get a chance to read these sites on a weekend (working three jobs in the Bush Economy).

2. The fuse was lit on this story long ago, and the fact-checking is nearly done for the in-depth exposes.

As for cross-posting: *please* spread the word to your other favorite sites. Meanwhile, I personally have these bookmarked for breaking updates:

http://www.shareholdersonline.org
http://www.pogo.org
http://www.democrats.reform.house.gov /

Plus:

http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?company=jorstad...

http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?company=smith+d...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #177
186. may I suggest...
...putting something about this over at Huffington Post and Dailykos? The diarist-researchers at Dailykos are able to follow a zillion links to track info down.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #186
189. I'll submit it as a news tip at HuffPost
They can be pretty slow over there, but they get more, and more diverse, readers than DU or DK.

Newsprism
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #189
194. Thanks ...
... and FYI, one reporter noted that if HP's Chair had arrested a shareholder at her latest annual meeting, the GOP leadership would have had her head.

State Street's CEO - Andy Card's chum - has gotten a complete pass from the GOP so far.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #186
192. Duly noted...
... though it will likely be tomorrow morning. Any other suggested channels are sincerely welcomed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kingofalldems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
180. So exactly what should we be looking for this week?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #180
181. That's a bit like asking...
... for a program setting forth the precise order of a fireworks display, with each volley described beforehand.

Takes all the fun and spontaneity out of it.

The Bushiest Bank of All is going to be Cheney's downfall.

Think the Duncan Hunter article was an accident?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #181
183. Please tell me The Smirk is up to his eyeballs in this.
Something's had him extra churlish lately.

Newsprism
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #183
196. You mean the Grinch who stole Halliburton shareholders'...
... equity, to bail out another Bush Family business venture?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=halliburton+dresse...

Prescott Bush sat on Dreser's board longer than any other director.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=prescott+bush+...

All that asbestos liability could have been a real problem for W's image in the 2000 primaries.

This just last month: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=dresser+retire...

If you read this letter and these filings (start with the first one; they're in reverse chron order), you might infer that Cheney and BakerBotts is having a tough time of it right now (as is Alberto Gonzales, the former Vinson & Elkins partner):

http://www.shareholdersonline.org/pdf/092006senateinves...

http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?company=smith+d...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
200. Didn't Shanghai have a recent pension fund scandal. Elaine Chao's
name reminded me of that... IIRC
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
201. please see my post #198
And another question -- is David A. Smith free? I assume so, but need clarification.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #201
217. Mr. Smith was ROR
Mr. Smith was released on his own recognizance.

A bio sketch of Mr. Smith can be found here: http://www.shareholdersonline.org/proponentbios.htm

The next court date for Mr. Smith is next week, October 19th, in the Boston Municipal Court. Mr. Smith's attorney, Mr. Norman S. Zalkind, is well-known for his First Amendment defense work (which I understand doesn't come cheaply).

Mr. Smith's partner, Patrick Jorstad, has given an account of what happened: http://www.shareholdersonline.org/correspondence.htm (See April 19, 2006).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
202. yet more
How does "stock-gate" relate to the State Street Bank?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #202
218. Stockgate and DTCC
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NancyG Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
204. Will the American public be able to understand this
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 11:52 PM by NancyG
as well as FoleyGate? It is exciting and I hope they find it as sexy a topic to keep their attention.

Thanks to you Ides. You seem like a great old leftie. k&r
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #204
219. How to Help America with the Basics of this story...
1. Never underestimate the common sense of the American public. The Founders didn't, and we have better tools at our disposal today than they did (e.g., the ability to scan and post primary documents, interactive primers, etc.).

2. Americans "get" taxation without representation issues. To wit, the Boston Tea Party. They also "get" the idea that a bank they've never heard of is reaping windfall fees from their pension accounts.

3. Have your friends, loved ones, and neighbors perform one very simple, easy-to-do (and free) step:

A. Go to FreeERISA.com

B. Look up your current (and any past) employers' pension plan's Form 5500 (the annual report required to be made to the Department of Labor and PBGC). It may take a while to find the exact name of your employer's plan, but there are wildcard search tools. If you have your plan documents handy, this will save you time.

C. Once you find it, look up the schedule that lists out the fees paid to service providers. Also look up the schedule that lists who the "trustee" of the pension plan is.

D. If you find any variant of "State Street" or "CitiStreet," your plan is infected.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #219
310. Checked and we have an infected one....
are calling our company tomorrow. Not sure what we can say except we are concerned about "rumors" about State Streets Financial dealing.

:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #310
313. Don't do that!!!
1. Don't call HR/Benefits. In many cases, they picked State Street to begin with.

2. Do call your Member of Congress - or your favorite MC, if yours isn't on the side of the angels.

3. If you like, send me the name of your employer. Once I have 100+ of these employers' names, I can post - and maintain - a running list. If you know it, include the Congressional District in which your company is headquartered, so we can cross-reference this data to bang Congress over the head with the "why it matters to your constituents" message.

I've seen way too many people get fired for rocking the boat on their pensions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #313
314. You want the names of companies that use Statestreet to manage
Edited on Mon Oct-09-06 10:51 PM by KoKo01
their pension funds? In our case they manage a small portion of the company's total pension funds, though. They are part of the interlocking BOD's for the company.

Here's a link to FAIR's Interlocking Boards of Directors. Interesting that three Media Companies have interlocking BOD's with StateStreet along with Big Pharma and the Bush's Holding Company, The Carlyle Group.

Here's the link: It should come through with StateStreet already highlighted from a cached search. In case you haven't seen it.

-------------
FAIR:

Interlocking Directorates


Media corporations share members of the board of directors with a variety of other large corporations, including banks, investment companies, oil companies, health care and pharmaceutical companies and technology companies. This list shows board interlocks for the following major media interests:

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:_pn_9utybKEJ:www.fa...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #314
316. It's easy to build a list of companies...
... off of FreeERISA, using the search function on service providers.

But when a Member of Congress or Senator is faced with a list of *actual* constituents' pension plans that are affected, it becomes much less abstract to them and their staffers.

"Senator X, here is a list of 10 companies in your state where *actual* constituents have already checked, and are now concerned to find State Street and/or CitiStreet on their plans' Form 5500s as paid service providers."

Add in:

"Besides these 10 *actual* constituents' plans, Senator X, here is a more comprehensive list compiled from FreeERISA.com, which shows *all* of the companies in your state that list State Street and/or CitiStreet as paid service providers on their Form 5500s. So besides the constituents who already know and are worried, you have thousands of affected families who don't even know they're affected."

That carries more weight.

So, don't put yourself in personal jeopardy by complaining to the in-house folks at your company who selected State Street to begin with; send the name of your past and current employers' pension plans via private message, and then - once I have a list of 100+ companies from actual DUers who have checked and found their plans infected - I'll post and maintain that list as it grows, cross-referenced by state and Congressional district.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberalla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 04:52 AM
Response to Original message
207. You have given us many tasty tidbits here
It all sounds delicious! I hope this all unfolds as you describe. I will be watching and cheering. Can't wait for the fireworks!

Great posting! My hope has been replenished.
Stay SAFE and thank you!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #207
220. Thanks...and the fireworks...
... have been Rove-proofed.

: )
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gwerlain Donating Member (516 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 04:56 AM
Response to Original message
208. You know, they took
$7 trillion out of the stock market in 2000 and 2001. Took the money from a lot of those uppity bourgeoisie who thought they could play with the big boys. Anybody ever wonder just how it was done? There's some answers here.

This thread goes really interesting places. Keep it coming, Ides. This is the stuff we need to see.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #208
222. Any areas you want primary docs for?
I am a huge believer in providing the primary documents - something the MSM never seems to have time to do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gwerlain Donating Member (516 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #222
261. I'd choose, oh, say, the
SEC documents from the Citibank settlement. If, OTOH, you mean dox from State Street, I'd think anything on large trades done in late 1999 thru early to mid 2001 would be interesting as hell.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #261
263. DTCC Discovery...
... discovery of DTCC's databanks should yield those very records.

It has a sort of poetic justice to it, huh?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=dtcc+%22state+...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Truthy Nessy Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:39 AM
Response to Original message
210. Does the large amount of Oct 6, 2006 stock puts have anything to do
with this posting? I would gather some people have knowledge of this going to happen and are going to get the maximum profits they can before this all comes out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #210
212. interesting thought
I have had a gut feeling for a few months, that our economy is about ready to implode.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #212
223. No, don't give in to despair...
... the innovations in the American financial system are like any other tool or technology: they can be used for good or ill.

Writing is neither inherently good nor bad. It's all in how it's used.
Nuclear power is neither inherently good nor bad. Ditto.
The stock market is neither inherently good nor bad. It's all in how it's used.

How can you hope to have a real say in how Diebold operates, for example, if you don't buy at least one share, and start re-programming it?

They tinker with the "governance documents" of the nation. To do so, they participate and get into the system.

To tinker with the "governance documents" of Diebold or Halliburton, we must do the same.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #223
226. Hope for the future
Re-programming Diebold, Definitely!


I used to be a mainframe programmer. Everything had to go thru a quality control process before any program was implemented. Glitches were caught and fixed, immediately. It's amazing to me that these Diebold machines have been allowed to count our votes with all the problems encountered using these electronic machines. If ATM machines can keep track of our money, why can't voting machines keep track of our votes!

Time for me to buy a share of Diebold, maybe Halliburton and State Street too!

Thanks for all your valuable information!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #226
228. You are very welcome
... and I know a few mainframe dinosaurs, too!

; )

Lots of those legacy systems are getting ported over now, even in the Federal Government.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buttercup McToots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #210
221. Thank you
Thank you and welcome...
I will be watching with bated breath...
There is hope, Thank God
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #221
224. There is always hope, and there are...
... very real things we Americans today can do to prove that we are the worthy heirs of the brave men and women who started the American Experiment.

Can you imagine what the Founders could have done with modern technology?

They would have run an insurgency against the British overlords the likes of which had never been seen.

Ben would have been on blog.

Tom would have been on had MS Word to edit.

Publius would have had a field day with the Federalist Papers.

Look around you, at all the wonders of technology at your disposal. They had quill and parchment, horse and musket, plow and hearth.

"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty *******to ourselves and our posterity,******* do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

See the emphasized part? They intended to secure the blessings of liberty to their posterity - us, their heirs. Look around you, at all you've been blessed with, the sum total of the know-how and gumption of those who have come before.

I think they expected us to reinvest those blessings, to pass them on enriched to the next generation, don't you?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
225. Intriguing. I need to re-read this thread.
Welcome to DU, IdesOfOctober.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
227. this fails the smell test
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #227
229. Use your eyes...
... in conjunction with your nostrils.

If you have specific questions about the primary documents, I'd be happy to try to address them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
230. State Street: Women and Minorities
As you might suspect, State Street has a very poor track record on workplace issues that affect women and minorities.

For instance, see the case file materials in Barbara Ruffino v. State Street Bank. In that case, a State Street executive - chief of staff for the asset management division - was alleged to have asked Mrs. Ruffino whether her husband (a newly-ordained Episcopal priest) now "did it with his collar on" when they had sex: http://www.shareholdersonline.org/keydocs.htm

See United State District Court Judge Nancy J. Gertner's opinion on State Street's dismissal motion: http://www.shareholdersonline.org/pdf/ruffinoopinion.pd...

**************************************

Or, see the testimony that Nick Lopardo - the head of State Street Global Advisors, the asset management division - gave in the maternity leave discrimination case of Lisa Chui v. State Street: http://www.shareholdersonline.org/keydocs.htm

Lopardo claimed that he could not "recall" such things as the names of women in key positions within his division: http://www.shareholdersonline.org/pdf/lopardodeposition...

Lopardo later became a Director and Vice Chairman of State Street, and is also the author of the destruction of evidence memo, in which he instructed a compliance officer as follows: ""Any memo like this should be marked CONFIDENTIAL so as to avoid discovery. Destroy any record of this memo."

http://www.shareholdersonline.org/pdf/destructionofevid...
**************************************

The other Vice Chairman who was elevated to Director the same day as Lopardo?

Ronald E. Logue, the Holbrook Hooligan whose high school pal is none other than Andy Boy Card: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22ronald+e.+logue+and+n...

Think Logue has cleaned things up?

Think again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #230
233. I'm channeling now
Something about chartered Cessna Citation II flights from there to a rinky dink airport on Florida and James Baker checking stuff out on the Isle of Man, Florida Turnpike laudering of cash, a guy murdered in Valdosta Georgia motel (he was a state auditor for Florida) and a guy tied to Ney in Ohio was also involved in contracts with the Florida turnpike authority. Jeb greasing the wheels in Florida and Baker washing cash through the Isle of Man. The cash starting out as locally (Iraq) to be dispursed cash to contractors rebuilding Iraq. Something about first bombing the crap out of a country, then ripping-off the money authorized to rebuild the country, pallets of cash disappearing and ending up in republican campaign coffers after being laundered through the Isle of Man and Turnpike authorities and then to contractors to the authority, transported to the Isle using MAC flights. It was some idiot conspiracy theory, totally "unfounded". Using a phoney war as a cash cow to fund elections, using tax money to get elected. It was something like that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
232. Time for some tin foil hat questions.
I have afriend who is always going off about some money scandals involving Leo Wanta and/or the V.K.Durham gold commodities bond.Are these real issues and ,if so,are they related to this?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #232
234. Outside the scope...
... of the purview of my expertise, I'm afraid.

If you can contextualize it for me, I might have colleagues who can weigh in knowledgeably.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #234
249. Ok
First I should say upfront that I only have a passing knowledge of the two affairs.mainly second hand from a friend and from a little googling a while back.And what I found with google was pretty confusing.

Anyway here some of the basics of the story,though I cant vouch for the accuracy of it.

Leo Wanta:He was given control of several billions of dollars by Reagan through a secret account in order to fund the mujahadeen in Afghanistan durng the 80's.Very little was actually used and the balance has grown to several trillion dollars.
And Bushco is trying to steal it.

V.K.Durham:She claims to possess a Peruvian Gold Commodities Bond,issued and backed,in the 1890's by the U.S. Treasury.Now worth a Brazilian dollars.The U.S. treasury now pretty much refuses to have anything to do with bond,saying it is a fake.In my opinion it sounds like urban legend stuff.
What makes this interesting,though,whether or not it is a real deal,is that V.K. Durham says that several entities,including the bush family,are using forged documentation that uses this bond as collateral for some shady financial dealings.Including some kind of gold scandal in the Philippines.

I know this all a little tinfoil hat-tish,but with bushco,nothing seems out of the realm of possibilities these days.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #249
250. Well, SPE barges would have sounded a bit tin hat...
... before Enron got caught:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=enron+barge+spe+sp...

Maybe your friend is like the poor chap in Independence Day, whom nobody believed:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116629 /

; )
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
236. Any scandal requiring one to research and read a ton of links...
is not a good scandal for any kind of impact on the American electorate, who are not the sharpest knives in the drawer. If and when this breaks, if you and your cronies can't summarize it in a sentence, it will have no impact whatsoever. I realize that you're having "fun" with DU'ers, i.e. it's entertaining to post predictions and tantalizing links, but in the end, unless it boils down to something of substance, it's not going to amount to much.

I hope I'm wrong about your "bombshell," but frankly, one month out from the election I have better things to do (like blockwalking) than indulging in "connecting the dots" here on DU ... and I hope others on this site will agree with me.

Mark Foley, IMO, is the October Surprise, albeit an unplanned one. It's easy to understand: A person in power abused his position to be inappropriate sexually with young people. And it will spread: What did the rest of the Republican leadership know, and when did they know it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #236
237. One sentence:
"Check your pension plan docs for State Street or CitiStreet."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #237
238. LOL! Well that's a good one sentence.
Will do. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #238
239. Chuckle...
We've had plenty of time to distill it down to that.

1. Get "average" Americans (I HATE that term) on board and aware of the basics.

2. Treat "average" Americans as anything but dumb, by providing the backup materials in the form of primary documents, so that they can attain a better understanding of the issues, and how they branch out.

3. Trust "average" Americans to act in their own best interests (e.g., by demanding Congressional hearings, flooding the MSM with demands for coverage of the story).

When Paris Hilton's dog Tinkerbell gets more coverage than Andy Card's Holbrook Hooligan buddy at State Street, the MSM cannot look the American people in the eye and honestly say they're living up to Thomas Jefferson's ideal of a free press.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #239
241. The media is abuzz w/ N.Korea's nuke test
How does this untimely nuke news impact the upcoming pension scandal?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #241
242. Speaking with one voice
... the fireworks have been Rove-proofed.

The single most effective thing that can be done to help keep them Rove-proofed is for every Democratic and progressive commentator to start bringing up State Street, Andy Card, Ron Logue, the Enron hush-up, and Bush's plan to make another go at Social Security privatization.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #242
244. Ken Lay of Enron
Now that was an untimely death! Seems so curious that he died of heart attack in July.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
faithnotgreed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #237
281. a question about pension plans and state street
Edited on Mon Oct-09-06 06:02 PM by faithnotgreed
i have a very small 401k and was wondering the best way to check if they have any connection with state street or citistreet

thank you so much
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #281
282. go to http://www.freeerisa.com/
you need to register first, it's free.


looking down the page, you will see a list of free reference databases

click on the ERISA form 5500 filings

enter the company you are looking for Lincoln Financial

click on the plan for your group, if listed

When the list of plans comes back, click on the pension plan

click on the 'SHOW ALL' for all the government forms

look for service providers

if State Street or CitiStreet is listed, you are impacted

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
faithnotgreed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #282
283. oh right thanks - i did go to that site yesterday
because of this thread then forgot all about it

and thank you much for the specific guidance
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
faithnotgreed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #282
286. ok one further question
Edited on Mon Oct-09-06 06:59 PM by faithnotgreed
when you have a moment

i entered the co information then what do i put under "plan type" from their options?
i only entered the company then left all the other values as default and it came back with no results found

so what else do i fill in aside from the company name i am looking up?
sorry to be dense tonight

thank you so much
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #286
290. Make sure you have the exact name of the company...
... when searching. If you have your plan documents handy, that helps. If not, you may need to play with a few permutations of the corporate name.

If you don't care to post the name of your employer, we could do a guided search here as an example.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #282
289. Thank you!
I am thrilled to see that others have figured out how to look this up.

In this day and age, it is so easy for Americans ***anywhere*** to access these sorts of crucial documents.

The Freedom of Information Act, the open meetings laws, and the other post-Watergate reforms have truly come into their prime with the advent of the Internet!

: )
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
electron_blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #282
315. thanks for spelling it out
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #315
319. You're welcome!
Edited on Tue Oct-10-06 06:31 AM by DemReadingDU
It took me a few times to find my company, and I thought it would help others.

Note: Sometimes, the company you think you work for, is listed under a different name in the 5500 database. So try all kinds of variations if you don't find it listed. Also, if the company goes by its letters, you might need to enter the full name of the company to find it.


edit to add: The Pension plan might be referred to as Defined Contribution plan. So also look for that,
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #319
321. Dem, thank you for addding those practical tips...
... it's not hard to get the swing of FreeERISA, once you play around with it a bit.

Most people have no idea that they are entitled to see this data, and FreeERISA has done an incredible job of taking it out of the Labor Department's Reading Room, and putting it right there in your living room.

Ides
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
240. Psst! State Street was one of Haley Barbour's lobbying clients
Of course, Barbour was already a "former" staffer (CEO) at Barbour, Griffith & Rogers
in 2004.

Link
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #240
243. Thanks, and check out the Federal Election Commission
... filings for State Street's PAC, 2000 to present.

I'll soon post a list of key State Street officers, so you can also see the bundling of their contributions at work in certain races.

They really like Bobby Boy Ney, who is doing a heckuva job in the House:

1. Choose the election cycle.

2. Type in "State Street Bank"

3. Follow the money.

http://www.fec.gov/finance/disclosure/srssea.shtml
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #243
246. We in Ohio know about Bob Ney
He resigned, and plead guilty. He's also Author of Help America Vote Act. Often wondered what else he was up to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #246
247. NeySaying State Street's Social Security Scam
... well, now you know that Ney and State Street were in cahoots.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buttercup McToots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #247
253. More More
Please...

I am reading everything...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #253
255. OK, which state are you from?
Pick a state, any state, and I can tell you why "All State Street scams are local."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buttercup McToots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #255
257. CT
I'm from Connecticut
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #257
258. CT? Treasurer Napier takes on State Street
Well, here is the most recent list of State Street's subsidiaries, including in MA and NY: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/93751/0001145443...

Lots of CT residents commute to NYC, and work there.

The CT Treasurer, Denise Napier, has done yeoman's work where State Street is concerned: http://www.state.ct.us/ott/proxyvotingsummary.htm

See how she has wielded the CT pension funds' votes - as a large shareholder - to help rein in perceived abuses at State Street and elsewhere.

One of Treasurer Napier's predecessors was a particular favorite of State Street, which bundled contributions (i.e., "pay for play").

I have a lot of respect for Treasurer Napier's savvy use of the state pension funds' votes to insist on having a voice at Bushie Banks:

http://www.state.ct.us/ott/nappier.htm

That's just the tip of the iceberg in CT, but that is a start.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-16-06 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #240
373. What else you got on that angle, pardner?
That looks mighty interesting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
248. My Arrest Record for "Trespassing" at State Street
Any DU moderator is welcome to contact me, to confirm that I don't mind my arrest record being linked to from here.

- David A. Smith, Editor of BushBunglesBrigade.org and HALwhistleblowers.org
(not to be confused with David R. Smith, VP of Tax at Halliburton)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #248
259. I think it's already
earned you credibility here. I saw it through the links in the OP.

Thank you for sharing with us. Staying tuned.

:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #259
264. One of My Cellmates...
... in the holding cell of the Boston Municipal Court - accused of a violent crime - joked with me while I ate my state-provided lunch of bologna sandwich and pint of milk, that I now had "street cred," so it's funny you should say that!

- Dave
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
265. Columbus Day put to good use...
... by certain Capitol Hill staffers, Members of Congress, law enforcement, and "activist judges" who love their country.

Meeting to go to. News at 11.

; )

Ides of October
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JRob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
266. Wow! My main position has ALWAYS been to stop corporate
domination, in fact to eliminate corporate influence in our government... Certainly they (the corps) and their proxies in office are directly and indirectly responsible for a degree of suffering rivaled only in history by the catholic church. OK there may be a couple of other examples... but you get the point.

Bring it on!

If this election is fixed (Nov. '06) and they retain power by some bazaar twist what options are left? Will America stand up?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #266
291. Yes, America will stand up...
... the question then becomes, do they walk north to Canada, or east to Washington, DC?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
267. Welcome to D.U. IdesOfOctober,
:hi: I have a stupid question but I wanted to be sure I understood this correctly, the Freesmasons and Skull and Bones are on opposing sides?

Kicked and recommended

:patriot:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buttercup McToots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #267
268. Thank you
and bump
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gwerlain Donating Member (516 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #267
271. The masons have been blamed for a lot
that they had nothing to do with, and would never have become involved with in the first place because it conflicted with their beliefs. Many of the founders of our country were Freemasons, and acted on their common beliefs in the improvability of the human race and in freedom and equality for all to create a country where pursuit of those beliefs would be possible. The Constitution bears their stamp to this day, and there is clear evidence of their symbology in many of the symbols of our nation.

Of course there was a conspiracy; a conspiracy to free humans from tyranny. And a well-organized conspiracy at that. Ever hear of the Boston Tea Party?

Does that sound like Skull and Bones to you?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #271
274. I did not
blame the masons, I was asking for information. I have never thought much of Skull and Bones. Anything with three generations of Bush in it can't be good.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gwerlain Donating Member (516 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #274
275. OK, just seen these two conflated
a couple times too many for my taste.

I don't know that I'd characterize the two as opposing forces, or even in the same league; S&B is, after all, a bunch of frat bois' sekrit society; I seriously doubt that anyone has ever considered giving their life for its principles.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #275
276. I wish that were true,
but I think Skull and Bones are more than just frat boys. I believe to a large extent they are pulling the strings. The numbers are just too weird for any other explanation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gwerlain Donating Member (516 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #276
284. There's a lot of detail
available to a simple search, including a CBS 60 Minutes episode from June of 2004, and a book full of details of the organization. Furthermore, the membership rolls are not secret and apparently have always been matters of public record in the records of Yale, the society is now coed, and there is a pretty informative article on them at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_and_Bones so I think there's less to find there than you think.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #284
287. The rolls may
may not be secret but other than obtaining power what do they believe in? 850 total living members out of 300 million people and we had two running in 2004, and two of the last three Presidents (pResident in the case of Bush W.)the odds of that happening are astronomical, unless somebody is pulling strings.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #284
299. I'm not saying you're wrong but here is a good link on the skull
and Boners:

http://www.ctrl.org/boodleboys /
There is a part 1 and 2
Lots of drug running, etc.
:dem:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gwerlain Donating Member (516 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #299
339. Oh yeah, they're real a**holes...
a lot of them, never said not; 'course, most boys that age are. I sure was. I often think that the difference between Da Blues and Da Reds is, Democrats grow out of being a**holes when they get past that age.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #339
361. Welcome to DU!
These boys don't grow up!

The Charmer was built in Newburyport, Massachusetts by Geo. W. Jackman for Bush & Wildes of Boston

:dem:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #275
295. The conflation has some truth to it...
... to be sure, and to be fair, there have been some confirmed or reported Freemasons with whom I would not wish to be associated:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_Freemaso...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Edgar_Hoover

As for Skull & Bones dying for their "causes": no, they send the working class to do that, in far-off lands.

Their disdain for Native Americans is disgusting, too: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=skull+%26+bones+ge...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #274
294. LOL!!!
And well-said!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #271
293. The well-organized conspiracy, indeed...
... amen to the Boston Tea Party and Founder references.

However, it is easy to see why - in the aftermath of the Morgan Affair - the Freemasons' image suffered: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Morgan_%28anti-Mas...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry

Did you know that the current Pope has even written that it is incompatible for Catholics to belong to the Masons?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholicism_and_Freemasonr...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregation_for_the_Doctr...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI

So the persecution and misunderstanding - from a pretty powerful quarter - still abounds today.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gwerlain Donating Member (516 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #293
297. Interestingly, the Freemasons are most commonly suppressed
by authoritarian regimes. Note the Federalists mentioned in the Morgan affair article and elsewhere; note the suppression of the masons by the Communist parties of Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union, by the Nazis, and by Franco, among many others.

Considering what the Pope of the time allowed to be done to Jacques DeMolay, I have little doubt that the Catholic Church doesn't much like the Freemasons. The staunchest enemies are always those who do someone wrong; they can never believe that they could be forgiven.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #297
301. Nicely put...
... and yes, the anti-Masonic sentiment also got a big boost from some of Pike's stuff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Pike

Count on Dan Brown to play that part up in The Solomon Key.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gwerlain Donating Member (516 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #301
304. Well, it seems Pike
was perhaps just a little bit maligned, here and there.

I find mythconceptions about the Freemasons amusing, particularly since I am an atheist and therefore not eligible to be a Freemason, and nevertheless seem to know more about it than most of its detractors.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #304
307. Pike Certainly Did a Lot...
... to staunch the membership outflux - but at a high price (whether "too high" is still debated in some circles). I would lay a hard wager that Dan Brown has Pike's name in the draft of The Solomon Key.

"I find mythconceptions about the Freemasons amusing, particularly since I am an atheist and therefore not eligible to be a Freemason, and nevertheless seem to know more about it than most of its detractors."

Some of my best friends are agnostics and atheists (not to sound trite). Rene Descarte's musings on the existence of a higher power always fascinated me. Here, you have the namesake of the Cartesian coordinates system essentially arguing that it's better to believe in God, and turn out to be wrong, than to bet against a higher power, and turn out to be wrong by taking that side of the bet.

I bet he would have been a good player in Vegas, hedging his bets like that!

; )

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=descartes+god

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rene_Descartes

Just to be clear (I figure you know this, but others may not): there is no litmus test for a particular religious affiliation ... it's intended to be ecumenical in every sense - at least, that is, on the one side of that great divide of belief vs. non-belief in a Supreme Being.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=freemasonry+believ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gwerlain Donating Member (516 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #307
335. I'm aware, my dad...
was a DeMolay. And I must say that even given a strong prejudice against religion, I find the Freemasons' beliefs among the least objectionable.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #335
337. Yup, it's meant to spark...
... civil discourse.

Just look at all the disparate faiths huddled on America's shores in 1775. Without *some* outlet for discourse to take place outside the houses of worship, it might never have come to pass that they would bond together in common purpose.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #267
292. Those young upstarts in Skull & Bones...
... don't have nearly the network that the Scottish Rite does, nor do they have the ability to catch up with all those extra generations of compounded growth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_%26_Bones (1832)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Knights_Tem...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1307

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1733

Skull & Bones (and its chief counterpart at Harvard, The Porcellian Club) are upstarts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porcellian_Club

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_club
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
269. Kicking it back up again.
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
270. ..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buttercup McToots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #270
273. up
271
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NancyG Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
279. kick nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
296. If you get a chance...
... look at the Draft Settlement Agreement that State Street tried to force David A. Smith to sign in 2002: http://www.shareholdersonline.org/keydocs.htm

What does Marshall N. Carter - son of Lt. Gen. Marshall S. Carter and current head of the NYSE regulatory arm - have to fear from the videotape of the 2000 annual meeting at State Street?

Why did the younger Carter dispatch a Ropes & Gray attorney to Washington, DC, to try to quietly hush up the videotape?

http://www.google.com/search?q=videotape&domains=www.sh...

How did the younger Carter get to be a White House Fellow in the Ford Administration? His father pulling strings, like GWB's?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Carter

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=marshall+carte...

Marshall N. Carter - like Rummy and Cheney - is another Nixon/Ford retread.

Why is he needed by the Bush Administration at the head of the NYSE?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=nyse+marshall+...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buttercup McToots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #296
298. Up Ye Go, Laddie
I'm right beside ye...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #298
300. Thank ye, kindly...
... and a wee bit o' history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Scots

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_diaspora

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=appalachian+hi...

Now, what do you think those Scots brought over to the New World with them, besides their stills?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_rite

And if Dan Brown had a lick o' sense, he'd figure out why Thomas Jefferson's *entire* collection was *NOT* donated to the Library of Congress:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_congress#Histor...

Had something to do with this fella: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_J._Beckley
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #300
305. Why do highland games
seem to occur during the second week of september?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #305
309. Not all are...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #305
328. They happen all summer long
Each town has its own highland games, many many of them. You can catch the Durness event
early in summer, lots of events that are not web-spread, worth an undiscovered look.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buttercup McToots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 04:56 AM
Response to Reply #300
318. Aye
I am verry familar wit the history...I have family that are masons an` Templars..

This stirs oor blood...

"For so long as there shall but one hundred of us remain alive we will never give consent to subject ourselves to the dominion of the English. For it is not glory, it is not riches, neither is it honours, but it is liberty alone that we fight and contend for, which no honest man will lose but with his life."

The Declaration of Arbroath


post an` bump
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #318
323. That sent goosebumps down my spine and set my ...
... coarse Scottish hair right on end!

LOL. Never fails. I may only need two cups of coffee now.

The Scottish Diaspora is too little known. Luckily for America, lots of those Scottish Highland clans found the Appalachian Highlands to be "close enough" to the real thing, and took refuge there.

It is no accident that Appalachia has played such a vital role in:

1. The Colonial period: Those who defied the Royal edict, and settled west of the Alleghenies, pretty much said, "You want to bring me up on charges, you English fops? Come serve me with the warrant." Long before Governor Spotswood led his prigs and dandies over the mountains as "Knights of the Golden Horseshoe," to investigate rumors that Scots and Irish had dared defy the Crown, those very Scots and Irish had done just that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Spotswood .

2. The Revolutionary War: The House of Burgesses in Virginia had a Scot or two, with a good Irishman or Welshman thrown in for spice: http://www.redhill.org/timeline.html .

3. The Civil War: Did you ever wonder why one of Lincoln's top priorities in 1861 was to make sure he secured the western counties of Virginia, which included the lands of Jefferson's old confidante, the first Librarian of Congress, Clerk of the House of Representatives, and political campaign manager? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_J._Beckley . The Races of Philippi are a little known opening salvo in the Civil War, and locals claim it was the first true land battle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippi_Races . Many Civil War historians have believed and retold a very incomplete version of why the western counties of Virginia were so vitally important. Indeed, some historians *blame* the early maneuvers to secure these lands for prolonging the war. They agree that securing the eastern bank of the Ohio River and a few key depots was important, but are often left scratching their heads as to why Lincoln and his generals were so consumed with protecting the more remote areas of southern WV. Maybe it had something to do with what Jefferson entrusted for safekeeping to John J. Beckley, coupled with the worry that his John J. Beckley's son, Alfred J. Beckley, a Confederate, would surely know about it too? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beckley%2C_West_Virginia and http://members.aol.com/jeff99500/beckley3.html . And did you ever wonder why the only state created in the midst of the Civil War was West Virginia? Many historians are left scratching their heads on that one, too. Occupy it, yes. But render it asunder? In the middle of a war? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_virginia Sure seems like that there was *something* about those lands that had Lincoln and his top civilian and military leaders up in arms, so to speak.

4. Unionization and the Mine Wars: Every time you clock out after an 8 hour day, thank the Mine Wars: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22mine+wars%22+um...

5. Later 20th Century history: The gold bullion of The Netherlands was stored safely in a coal mine in West Virginia during WW II. During the Cold War, Eisenhower chose to locate the secret Congressional bunker in WV. Nicknamed "Operation Greek Island," the project was intended to preserve the greatest gift of the Greeks - democracy - in the event the Cold War turned hot: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=greek+island+g... . And anyone who has ever seen it or stumbled upon it says that it is supremely surreal to see the Green Bank National Radio Astronomy Observatory - which handled much of the classified communications traffic during the Cold War - surrounded by the lush green mountains: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Bank and http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=green+bank+observa... .

How's that for making history relevant?

Ides
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
302. Disgraced the office of Resident?
I think Smirk has set the bar really high on that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #302
303. The EOP is not about the Oval Office occupant of the moment...
... but about protecting the presidency (i.e., without respect to any single occupant, past, present, or future).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Office_of_the_Pr...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
306. State Street Bank responsible for United Airlines collapse?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #306
308. Excellent Find...
... I believe that Mr. Jorstad and/or Mr. Smith have addressed the UAL case in their filings, with that law firm cited.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kingofalldems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #308
312. How about a thread 2 for us dial uppers?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #306
311. Polaroid collapse is an even better example ...
... given the interlocked boards of directors between State Street and Polaroid:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=polaroid+%22st...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
317. Kick - everyone must take the time to read (wade through) this n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #317
322. I plan to start a second, related thread momentarily, as requested...
... and will link back to this one, where I will also continue to post.

Ides
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #322
324. Will you make it clear how Card is involved?
There's a lot of replies here, and perhaps it's in amongst one of those, but all I see from your original post and the one it links to is that Card was a high school friend of someone involved in State Street bank, and he's kept up that friendship. That, on its own, isn't enough to make someone resign. So what did Card do?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #324
326. The White House call logs...
... will reveal the contacts between Card and State Street CEO Ron Logue (e.g., in the immediate aftermath of the Enron collapse, the Bushies were panic-stricken about its potential effect on the November 02 elections, and called up State Street to become the "special fiduciary" for the Enron pensions).

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=chao+scalia+enron+...

Ides
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #326
327. Precisely what I find so confusing - what are you saying about Card?
Despite you giving a Google search term, there's only one site on the first results page that refers to Card - a blog that points out he's a high school friend of Logue. On its own, that means nothing. I'm not going to plough through 101 web sites in the hope of finding what Card is meant to have done wrong. Why can't you just tell us?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #327
329. The Socratic Method...
... is a time-honored teaching tool: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method .

Nevertheless, I'll help you along (or you can just wait for the MSM stories to break later this month).

1. Enron implodes in late 2001.

2. The Bush Administration, desperate to recapture the Senate - and fearful that the full extent of Kenny Boy Lay's misdeeds at Enron could jeopardize that goal, and/or put the House in play - needs a trusted "fixer firm," to help tamp down the Enron story to a manageable level.

3. To create the appearance of swift and decisive action, President Bush includes strong rhetoric in his January 2002 State of the Union address about corporate accountability: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/01/2002012... .

4. To further give that appearance, Labor Secretary Elaine Chao and Labor Solicitor Eugene Scalia demand that a Federal judge remove the Enron fiduciaries (including State Street's rival, Northern Trust) and install their handpicked choice, State Street: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=elaine+chao+scalia...

5. The MSM is so busy covering the main thrust of the story - the tragedy that has befallen the Enron families, and how steps must be taken to prevent other Americans from suffering a similar fate - that they miss this "side story". The MSM never bothered to ask the quintessential Enron question: "Why?" WHY State Street? WHY NOT Bank of New York, or Mellon, or any of the other trust banks? WHY State Street?

In other words, between the Enron implosion, and the day that Elaine Chao and Eugene Scalia marched into Federal Court and demanded that State Street be annointed as the Administration's handpicked choice to become the "special fiduciary," some missing conversations took place.

And it just so happens that Andy Card, Ron Kaufman, and Ron Logue (CEO of State Street) go way, way back: http://www.google.com/search?as_q=card+logue++rocky+tim...

When the MSM started poking into this aspect of the story in April of this year, Card suddenly resigned. A week later, his high school buddy tried to exact payback, by having David A. Smith - the likely source of the leak to the MSM - arrested at the State Street annual meeting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #329
331. So why didn't you link to the MSM stories from April?
That would have been a lot easier. Having said that, I can't find the stories in April about Card, Enron, and State Street. Can you give us the links?

And why didn't Chao and Scalia resign too, if this was exposed in April?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #331
332. Ms. Volestrangler...
1. Love your alias.

2. I think you may wish to do a re-read of the root message of the post. The MSM started nosing around, but nothing has yet appeared. But trick or treat season is upon us, and the Ghosts of Bush Administration Cover-ups Past is going to be a popular costume this year.

3. Scalia has returned to private practice at Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher.

4. Elaine Chao is not long for the Cabinet, if I were a betting man.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
320. A Jeff Gannon-Andrew Card connection perhaps?
Rumors are that Card is gay and I could see how he knew Gannon, who luckily would have all kinds of access to the White House that no real journalist could...

Put that story in the ring...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #320
333. I disagree that sex is a necessary ingredient...
... for this story.

Just have your friends, neighbors, and family members to the Great American Cockroach Check, to see if their pensions are being pick-pocketed and plundered by the Bush-backing pirates at State Street: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Ides
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gwerlain Donating Member (516 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #333
336. LOL!
"Great American Cockroach Check"

On an earlier sub-thread, someone (muriel_volestrangler?) asked for connections to Andy Card. Not to steal too much thunder, but you mentioned Darth Cheney at some point in there. That was a statement I find very interesting, particularly considering certain statements I have seen made by Mr. Conyers. Any extent to which you might care to elaborate I would also find very interesting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #336
338. It's hard to be original in this town...
... and there are a limited number of metaphors that resonate with popular culture.

; )
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gwerlain Donating Member (516 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #338
340. Not sure if you saw this...
I think you might know about the AP article, but perhaps not that it was picked up by MSN.

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerartic...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #340
341. Good catch...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gwerlain Donating Member (516 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #338
342. BTW
Not to be pushy, just to clarify, when I referred to Darth, I was of course referring to links beyond the obvious. But I can of course see why you might not want to say anything about that just yet. A nudge is as good as a wink to a blind bat.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #342
343. And even a blind squirrel finds ...
... a nut every now and again.

; )
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gwerlain Donating Member (516 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #343
344. It's a pleasure to make your acquantance, sir.
I think Mr. Waxman and Mr. Conyers between them may very well put on an excellent impression of a bull in a china shop.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #344
351. From your lips...
... to God's ears, via Waxman's gavel.

; )
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
325. The Second Thread
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
363. One week from tomorrow, David A. Smith's criminal trespass...
... charge will come on for hearing.

http://www.shareholdersonline.org/pdf/HaveYouSeenThisMa...

http://www.shareholdersonline.org/proponentbios.htm

These are the questions that Ron Logue, the Rogue - CEO of State Street and Andy Card's pal from Holbrook, MA - couldn't answer at the State Street annual meeting in April, leading him to have David arrested instead:

http://www.shareholdersonline.org/pdf/questions%20for%2...

David is innocent until proven guilty of this criminal charge - a process that will unfold publicly, with State Street required to explain the conduct of the CEO and the board of directors, on the record.

David's attorney is Norman S. Zalkind, renowned for his First Amendment defense work.

As a criminal defendant, David will be entitled to discovery, to cross-examine his accusers, and to compel witnesses to testify.

If you're interested in learning how to help, please contact me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-12-06 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
366. Posted in the other thread
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
patrick t. cakes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
368. kick
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-14-06 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
369. How to know when MA white collar criminals are really worried...
... when they hire these guys: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=mintz+levin+white+...

Has Andy Card, Ron Kaufman, or Ron Logue put Mintz Levin on retainer recently?

Ides
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-14-06 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #369
370. Like GOP Governor DiPrete, Convicted Felon?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #370
376. A Bush pardon for Andy Card?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
371. speaking of that Andy Card thread, where dumbo and his wifey are mad....
here's another reason for them to be worried about him opening his pieholio
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-15-06 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #371
372. That Ain't Gonna Be Nuthin', When Dumbya Finds Out...
... the evidence that survived about Andy Card's machinations to have State Street appointed as the special fiduciary in Enron.

Andy Card, Ron Kaufman (of the Willie Horton ads) and Ron Logue (the CEO of State Street) are "thick as thieves," so to speak:

1. Andy Card and Ron Kaufman are brothers-in-law: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=andy+card+ron+kauf...

2. Andy Card and Ron Logue go way back: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=graduated+andr...

And - stupidly - the key State Street execs who participated in the Enron hush-up have gone on the record, and boxed in their cover story: http://www.google.com/search?q=john+serhant+%22enron+re...

- Dave
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #372
378. Pardons for all involved?
Not without Congressional hearings, methinks, that will permanently back burner the Social Security privatization scam.

Ides
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NancyG Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-16-06 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
374. So explain...
My impression was that a Big Thing was going to come out on or about the Ides of October. Or Halloween? A surprise sometime in October?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #374
375. Sure...
Did you happen to see this thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I'm guessing that the information related there is going to break out into the MSM very soon, besides what's already appeared (which is only the time of the proverbial iceberg):

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=halliburton+nigeria+b...

Just like the Titanic's crew, the Executive Office of the President probably now knows or guesses the full extent of the damage.

Ides
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
377. ttt
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Aug 01st 2014, 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC