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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:48 AM
Original message
Ex page tells of sex with Foley
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-pa...

A former House page says he had sex with then-Rep. Mark Foley (R-Fla.) after receiving explicit e-mails in which the congressman described assessing the sexual orientation and physical attributes of underage pages but waiting until later to make direct advances.

The former page, who agreed to discuss his relationship with Foley with the Los Angeles Times on the condition that he not be identified, said his electronic correspondence with Foley began after he finished the respected Capitol Hill page program for high school juniors. His sexual encounter was in the fall of 2000, he said. At the time, he was 21 and a graduate of a rural Northeastern college.

"I always knew you were a player but I don't fool around with pages," declared one instant message from Maf54, a screen name Foley used in exchanges that have become public involving male former pages.

The two had wine and pizza on a backyard patio and then retired to a spare bedroom, he recalled.

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dorktv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. oh wow
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
66. That's what I was thinking!
:wow:

Better pop some popcorn!

:popcorn:
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:50 AM
Response to Original message
2. WHOA!
This just keeps getting bigger and bigger!

:wow:
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
49. It's just natural male enhancement, don't fret deary... n/t
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #49
88. .



:popcorn:
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TK421 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
105. Is that what Foley said?
;)
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:51 AM
Response to Original message
3. i'm just waiting for the repukes to say "so that makes it okay."
heh.
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
15. as long as he's voting anti gay, its a o k.
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
28. Troll for 'em when they're minors. Bag 'em when they're of age.
Probably legal but it's still predatory and disgusting.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #28
72. Remember how Cheney HUNTS?
He stands there while some helpers THROW Ducks and Pheasants IN FRONT OF HIM, killing like hundreds in a day that way.. real tough guy.

We may find out that Foley just STOOD THERE while Helpers THREW Pages in front of him, so he could NAIL them :)

Sick asshole, STILL A PREDATOR.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #72
118. As Robin puts it::: Foley & Co.will have the "Run of the BOYS"
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #118
126. LOL
I laughed for 5 minutes straight after that joke!

Had to pause the tivo over and over the whole show, run it back to catch all that Robin was saying, he just ACED that show, and that damn Repig woman kept PAWING him, trying to make it look like they were buddies, pathetic..

I'll never for get that line :)
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No Exit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #72
127. Your post conjured up a rather unpleasant mental image...
... of Foley "doing a Cheney", and shooting someone in the face (while drunk). ;)
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #28
75. took the words out of my mouth
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #28
81. My thoughts exactly!
Find them, woo them as minors, and bag them when they are of age. What a totally sick fuck Foley is!

:puke:
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #28
91. I'm thinking there will be more news yet, don't you?
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #91
100. Supposedly, rumors of even more bombshells to come are flying...
...fast and furious around DC.
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benny05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #28
111. Woody Allen did the same with his current wife...
I'm not defending Foley, but the problem is that George's OLD-FASHIONED Party keeps forgetting that Gay Republicans have been in the closet for years because they pandered so long to the Jimmy Swaggart types. I actually have some sympathy for disenfranchised gays like Foley, but unfortunately, the Party mattered more than Foley's issues with his own sexual orientation. I think it's unfortunate that he felt the need to relieve his sexual tensions over IM's with teenage boys. The power thing: Don't ask, don't tell, right?

As to Foley having sex with a 21 year old who was a former page, I don't see the wrong in that. That's consensual sex, and it's irrelevant otherwise. What is relevant is that GOP won't recognize that they have forced gays to keep their closets shut, not necessarily clean.






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No Exit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #111
128. Yup. The problem was determining when she became "of age".
As I recall, Soon Yi did not have an official birth certificate, having been adopted as an orphan in Korea. Made for some uncomfortable moments for Mr. Koenigsberg, I believe.

Then there was his unfortunate tendency to be just a bit lewd with that 10-yr-old sister of Soon Yi's. Her name was Dylan, I think.

The whole thing was really dispiriting. I have always loved Woody Allen's movies, but.... ewwwwwwwwww...
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mykpart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #28
124. Puts me in mind of the witch in Hansel and Gretel.
Remember the witch waited until Hansel was big enough to eat!
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Drifter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
63. It does make it OK ...
Not morally, but legally.

This guys name is Monica.
He is a consenting adult, and this does not help our case at all.

Cheers
Drifter
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #63
73. Well, except that
...Monica was NOT ok with the republicans. So, if Monica was not ok, do the same standards apply? And, of course the difference is that Monica was not groomed from a young age.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #63
74. The trouble this time
is figureing out WHO WORE the Stained Blue Dress :)
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #63
76. Bill wasn't grooming Monica while she was underage n/t
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #63
82. Big difference, IMO:
Monica was NOT a minor when she and Clinton first hooked up. She was and adult, well over the age of consent, when they met.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #63
114. It does not make it okay, except on a legal technicality.
Monica pursued Bill. She pursued a superior when she was 21 or 22.

Foley pursued a subordinate.
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
64. Repeat after me: it's not about sex....
...it's about sexual harassment. That's what the unwanted E-Mails and IM's were.

And it's about COVERING IT UP!
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #64
77. It's about abuse of power and about character (or the lack thereof)
Let them offer all the legalistic arguments they want. This is all legitimate areas for public debate and we need to mention this to every swing voter and non voter we know. The Republicans use their power to get laid and line their pockets and cover up each other's abuses of power.
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populistdriven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #77
79. The Dems need to get on this - FBI Covered up For Foley
Who ordered them to drop this case?

Was it Bush?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #77
96. what was it with Clinton, then?
we're heading into dangerous 'hypocrite' country here. If a person in a position of authority sleeps with their subordinates, it's an abuse of power - yes or no? That's what Clinton did isn't it? Yet to even say that, is probably going to get me called a 'freeper'. Truthfully, I don't think what Clinton did was *very* wrong, and I don't think Foley sleeping with this particular 21 year old is *very* wrong either. And if we're going to be calling out republicans on their hypocrisy we'd better make sure we're not doing the same damn thing.
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buzzard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #96
116. I guess I must agree with you it is about abuse of power however to
me the actual abuse seems more relevant with respect to Foley and the pages as opposed to Monica and Bill. I may be a hypocrite in saying this and am happy to accept any criticism.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #64
84. And sexual harassment is about the abuse of power.
That's where the Foley case neatly fits in with Republican morality. The strong win. The weak lose. And, to Republicans, that's all there is to it.
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TorchTheWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #64
113. Exactly so!
Age of consent is a red herring... this is about sexual harassment which can happen to anyone of ANY age. The fact that in this case it was minors who Foley preyed on just makes it worse. CONSENT is the point, and no one who is COERCED is considered to have consented.

FREELY chosing to date someone you work with is entirely different than being sexually harassed by them... when one "gives in to" or "puts up with" a predator it is NOT consent, it's coercion.

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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:52 AM
Response to Original message
4. As stated earlier, Foley used the pages as a sex farm
he used foreplay for a few years to their legal age. Sick.
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. he was in hog heaven
until it all blew up
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Hav Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:54 AM
Response to Original message
6. .
Well, if it's true, it's not really unexpected and there are probably more cases.
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:54 AM
Response to Original message
7. he was sizing them all up
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 02:56 AM by slaveplanet
much in the same way as a "lifer" prison inmate scans the newbies for their own personal "bitch".
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Literally and figuratively
What a set up, now its all over
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
9. Predation.
We knew it had to be for something.
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hsher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:00 AM
Response to Original message
10. The Ferocious Fenis
The Clenis has been replaced in history by the Fenis, apparently.
This situation is turning into "DAMN-BLA".


www.yourmorningleibowitz.blogspot.com
The Daily Show as a comic strip
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:03 AM
Response to Original message
11. Why isn't Foley doing the slow-speed white Bronco dance?
a la O.J.?

So Markey-Poo and his surrogate wife/sister are taking the backroads to Florida.

I will bet that the fuck just kills himself.

Remember, you heard it here first.

The dickhead is going to kill himself.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Suicided, perhaps?
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. No. He will do it himself.
Accompanied by a long letter/explanation.

Remember that rehab crap? Just that.

That preening prick could never allow himself to be in the public eye - ever, again.
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:01 AM
Response to Reply #17
32. The suicide letter will blame.........
Democrats, alcohol, gay America, his clergyman..........everyone but himself. It's the Republican way.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #32
57. .....And Bill Clinton.
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:50 AM
Response to Reply #14
29. Suicided is my guess...
The Repukes want this matter to be put to bed....quickly...No trials...no testimony...

I hope for Foley's sake he is in good protective custody of the rehab center and no one can get to him...

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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. Small plane?
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:26 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. If I were Mark Foley, I'd stay away from small planes for sure...
I seriously believe Mark Foley is a marked man - because he knows too much...and he's become a major embarressment for the GOP...he's a liability...
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:34 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. He better start eating junk food from vending machines, rejecting ALL
of his mail, start taking Cipro, hire bodyguards, etc.

:hi:
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. ALL of their hatred & homophobia is now focused on ONE MAN.
the man who embarrassed them all
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #39
48. Sociopaths can only be shamed... they have no real conscience or
empathy for their fellow human. Meanwhile, progressives are truly concerned about the children who were victimized, and dread the possibility that the repukes will fuck up an old American tradition of having young pages working for congress. After all, Matt Drudge said they were "little beasts," and it was their fault for tempting Foley with their young, supple bodies... we know where Drudge's mind is at! :eyes:

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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #38
42. Who would have that junk food from vending machines could be good for you
:shrug:

Hey Swamp'r! Up late too I see....I just woke up...couldn't sleep well....
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #42
46. I must sleep now!
A few hours at least. :boring:

:hug: for the Pachafamily.
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wickerwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:05 AM
Response to Original message
12. There has to be more to it than that...
No way I'm believing he only scoped out 16 year olds and then waited *five years* to have sex with them.
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. this is just the tip of the boyberg
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. He is going to kill himself.
See #11.

He is going to kill himself.

Just wait and see.

He cannot go home. He is finished.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. I Hope He Doesn't Kill Himself...
If he was allowed to be himself (gay) by the Republicans this might never have happened. He could have found a partner his own age and lived openly and happily. I do have my doubts that an openly gay Republublican could have won that district.
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Ecumenist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #20
37. He does have a partner his age...
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 05:34 AM by Ecumenist
It seems that he has somewhat of a serious perversion---PEDERASTY!! I know that the actual term for his likes is ephebophilia but they were kids, no matter what the nomenclature and I do not believe for one second that he's an isolated case and an aberration. I have a HUGE gut feeling that he's simply the one who got caught.

My mother had a saying tht went a little something like this: "the only difference between good girls and bad girls is that the good girls DON'T GET CAUGHT."

Draw your own conclusion.
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #20
119. He HAS a partner his own age!
I think the guy is a dermatologist or something... very popular with the Palm Beach and wealthy FL-types. That's what makes this so wrong and inexcusable. Even if he didn't want to be openly-gay, he still had a stable partner of more than a decade to go home to. Why did he feel the need to stalk and prey upon teenaged pages?
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:28 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. And just the tip of the viceberg.
And to think they have the nerve to rag on Hollywood.
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:36 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. I won't presume such...
...it *is* possible to wait five years, especially if you annually have a new crop of "freshly legal" ex-pages from which to cull new prospects. But it warrants investigation.
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CarbonDate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #12
21. Why not?
He was a freshman Congressman in 1995 and may have thought at the time, "there's no way I could get away with this..." but when he found out that he could, well....
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #12
93. He could directly troll gay bars for 21ish dudes if that's what he wanted.
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 11:49 AM by Mayberry Machiavelli
I agree, more will be known.
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Eugene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:50 AM
Response to Original message
22. Foley used a predatory tactic called grooming.
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 03:53 AM by Eugene
He flirted and built the relationship with the underage pages
and waited until they got old enough before he got physical.

Did Mark Foley commit a crime? It's worth investigating.

Did he abuse his power, his position, and everybody's trust.
Absofreakinglutely!

Mark Foley is an experienced predator and nobody's kid is safe around him.



edited for spelling mistakes
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. I Agree 100%....
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 03:59 AM by DemocratSinceBirth
It does seem like an odd tactic though...

To identify your prey and then wait for them to become of age to "attack"...


He used the page system the way a baseball team uses a farm club.
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TorchTheWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #22
86. How do we know that?
"He flirted and built the relationship with the underage pages
and waited until they got old enough before he got physical."


This is ONE page's story. We don't have any idea what the stories of other pages are. We also have no idea what physical things he may have been doing to underage pages OTHER THAN sex. If that pervert wasn't grab-assing/grab-crotching minors without their consent I'll eat my own underwear.

This was also a lot more than just grooming. He blatantly traded promises of political advancement with sex with these pages... absolute blatant sexual harassment. Makes no difference whether the kids were out of the page program or not... he STILL wielded the same power over them, and always would as long as those kids wanted a career in politics. Actually, since a congressman's power reaches into the business sector in a big way, even if the kids gave up on the idea of a political career, Foley could STILL have influence on another career of their chosing.

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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:15 AM
Response to Original message
24. At least it was consensual--
--with Foley not in a position of power over the ex-page. This is a lot more like the Clinton/Lewinsky thing than his abuse of power over pages.
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:16 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. I have no problem with it, but THEY will
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #25
62. Fine. and we should shut up and let them.
I'd rather they be put in the position of deciding whether to defend Foley's relationship with a 21 year old and be accused of hypocrisy for their position vis a vis Clinton/Lewinsky and the Studds situation, than have Democrats criticize it (and be accused of hypocrisy).

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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. The fact that he just
happens to be 21 is highly suspicious. Afterall Dems cannot criticize a consensual relationship can they? I smell more spin.
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. Monica was 21, but THEY called her a child, & Bill a sexual predator
I remember
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:56 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Yep
Who can forget that witch hunt? This will get uglier.
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #30
68. No. Monica was 24.
nt
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Helga Scow Stern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #26
92. Spin is right! The LA Times has been jumping on the GOP
spin wagon pretty blatantly lately. This story smacks of being spin, and of course no one can vet it because the page's identity must be kept secret. That line is just too choice: "I don't touch pages." Give me a break!

Their editor-in-chief was fired a week or so ago when he refused to make newsroom staff cuts.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #26
121. I have a question. What's all the hoopla over 21?
Isn't the age of consent 18? :shrug:

Not to take away from the issue or anything, but what about that 3 year window? What happened between that time?
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #24
67. No it isn't "more like the Clinton/Lewinsky" thing
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 08:46 AM by Divernan
Foley was the pursuer from start to finish, and literally lay in wait for this young man (starting when he was a 16 year old minor) for some 5 years, sending suggestive IMs/emails and keeping in touch until the boy legally became a man!

Monica, fresh off a 5 year affair with one of her married teachers (for whom she babysat) crowed to friends before she left for DC or had ever met Clinton, that she was off to Washington to get some "presidential kneepads". She took advantage of the unusual work arrangements necessitated by the government shutdown/budget crises to be alone w/ Clinton and launch her come on (remember the thong?) Granted, he was a fool to get involved with her - but his foolishness doesn not begin to rise to the level of Foley's calculating seductions.
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TorchTheWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #24
90. Are you serious?
"--with Foley not in a position of power over the ex-page. This is a lot more like the Clinton/Lewinsky thing than his abuse of power over pages."

As long as those kids wanted a career in politics, Foley had JUST as much power over them as when they were in the page program. If Foley wanted to sink their careers before they even got started he could do just that, and the pages knew it. He was a U.S. Congressman for crying out loud. Even if they decided a career in politics wasn't for them, a U.S. Congressman's power stretches into the business sector as well. If he wanted to, he could keep those kids from being accepted at the colleges of their choice that they would have qualified for by simply whispering in the ear of the powers that be.

No wonder Foley was so bold. He had power to wield over them no matter what career path they might chose. This is no situation where those kids were being sexually harassed by some middle management office pervert where the victim has the option of leaving their job and starting over somewhere else... as a U.S. Congressman, he had power that could stretch into nearly any sector.

This is clearly a case of sexual harassment where there IS no consent, so age is irrelevant. Those pages DID NOT consent - they were COERCED. If they DID consent, we would not be hearing from them now, they would not have turned over those IM's, and they'd be trying to help the cover-up just as much as the rest of the GOP scum. There is an ENORMOUS difference between dating someone you work with and being sexually harassed by them.



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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #90
104. Very, very well said - you should write some LTTEs
explaining this aspect of the whole sordid matter.
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TorchTheWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #104
112. Thank you, I was sexually harassed at 25
so I know the fear, anger and utter HELPLESSNESS one feels when in the situation. I was FAR over the age of consent, but age is not what is at issue here. I was lucky enough to be old enough to recognize that what the person who was preying on me was doing was unethical and inapproperiate, and old enough not to feel so threatened and so helpless that I would have given in to him.

BUT, my predator's influence could only reach within the company we worked in. After I was fired, I was able to eventually get another job in a different business where I wouldn't ever have been afraid that pervert's influence could reach. And I WAS fired for finally reporting him... the pervert (as far as I now know) is still with the company and still preying on whoever he wants with impunity.

Foley, unlike my predator, as a U.S. Congressman had influence that could reach ANYWHERE. The pages he preyed on would have known that or been made to realize that probably by Foley himself. They would have felt they had NO CHOICE but to give in because no matter what they wanted to do once leaving the page program they would STILL be affected by his influence. The one's that broke off contact with him would still have crossed their fingers hoping Foley didn't decide to retaliate against them, and they still would have felt it necessary to keep their mouths shut about what happened to them... which is evidenced by the flurry of pages who came forward AFTER he got caught and was no longer capable of wielding power over them.

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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #90
115. If the ex-page in question was in a position where Foley could harm--
--his ambitions, then you are right. If not, it sounds like what thousands of gad school TAs do when they find themselves hot for one of their students. If they exploit their position, they are predators. If they have the damn common sense ethics to back the hell off until the student is out of their course and in no way dependent on them for a grade, it becomes just another consensual thing between adults.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:36 AM
Response to Original message
27. stupid americans will throw 'em out for this, and not high crimes &
misdemeanors. looting the treasury as our heroes die for the lie. ad infinitum fer chrissakes!
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Frazzled Educator Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:06 AM
Response to Original message
33. I'm waiting for the whitewash from the GOP and the neo-cons.
I am so waiting for the insane rationalizations that pedophilia is okay.
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Ecumenist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:26 AM
Response to Original message
36. Whoop, there it is...
Let's see how the republicans handle this...
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #36
40. Mark Foley is not a Pedophile.
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 05:41 AM by Disturbed
He is a Pedarist, a predator and a hypocrite.
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Ecumenist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. If he's a pederast, he's automatically a pedophile
The words mean the same thing. I suppose that also puts him into the hypocritical predator column too. :hi:
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #43
78. They don't mean the same thing
A pedophile is an adult who is sexually attracted to children, whether he has sex with them or not. A pederast is a man who has sex with boys, usually implying that the boy is passive. It's a more severe term. Your thread title is true, but the comment that they mean the same thing is off.
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Ecumenist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:44 AM
Response to Original message
41. Umm,, am I the only one who finds it a bit strange
that he just HAPPENS to have saved the communications on his computer so that it would be ever so convenient for the reporter to read the exchanges? I'm sure that I'm being a bit too analytical, :sarcasm:
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #41
44. The man is a tad DELUSIONAL....which would explain things....
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Ecumenist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. I know Foley is but I was referring to the former page/
piece of @ss who has so conveniently stepped forward to prove that Foley may have chased the little boys but he slept with young men who'd reached majority.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #45
50. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Ecumenist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:33 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. That's just creepy but I find it curious that this
person shows up just in time to "prove" that Foley only buggers grown men. :eyes: :eyes:
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. "my client wants you to know he's gay", foley's lawyer
weird how they use words
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. Could be the Masters wants him painted Gay rather than Pedio
:kick:
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #51
69. All it proves is than in ONE instance, Foley waited until a kid was 21.,
And we just have this young man's word that the first contact was after he was 21. According to Foley's other IM's, he did NOT wait until 21 for some others.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #51
117. Prolly paid to come out and point to Foley
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Ecumenist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #117
123. Exactly...
That's exactly what I thought when I first read about this person volunteering to come forward out of the clear blue sky...
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #45
98. Convenient isn't it? Tiny bit of damage control, something for their bots
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 12:42 PM by glitch
to parrot. But will this ploy salvage much? I guess we'll find out...

Edit: Actually I changed my mind in a later post

They're trying to turn this into a gay issue, away from the predator issue
that it is. That way they can accuse everyone questioning their actions of gay-bashing.
Don't think it will work with anybody but their true-believers, but all they really need is the appearance of it working. Diebold will take care of the rest.
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Chipster Donating Member (139 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #98
125. GOP Leaders Taking Advice from Pat Robertson
GOP leaders continue to scramble in their Foley damage control efforts. Growing evidence shows that Pagegate has badly shaken the religious right's belief in the Republican party's "family values" and "morality". Pat Robertson urges them to use Foley's predatory behavior to further their homophobic agenda. According to the Time article:

"Last week some conservatives went so far as to insinuate that Foley proves that every gay person is a pedophile waiting to happen. "You don't need 'gaydar' to understand he has certain dispositions," Utah Congressman Chris Cannon told the Deseret News. Televangelist Pat Robertson recommended that G.O.P. leaders simply explain the situation this way: "Well, this man's gay. He does what gay people do."

Robertson is so wrong. It's not about gays. It's about a man using his position to prey on teens, and it's about how his congressional colleagues aided him in his perverse interests by their silence and inaction. It's about how they all cared more about their own self-interests than the youths entrusted to them, and it's about money - Foley was a Republican rainmaker.

"Foley has given about $745,000 to fellow Republicans since 1995, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, which tracks campaign financing.

But the top recipient of Foley's contributions, the National Republican Congressional Committee, is holding onto the cash. The NRCC, which works to increase the number of Republicans in Congress, has received $550,000 from Foley since 1996, including $100,000 this past July, according to the Federal Election Commission.

"We decided that the best use of the money is to elect other Republicans around the country," said Carl Forti, a NRCC spokesman.

Foley left Congress with $2.8 million in his campaign account through Friends of Mark Foley, his political action committee. He has the option to transfer the money to national, state or local political party committees, candidates or charity. He can also return the money to contributors.

If he chooses, Foley may petition the Federal Election Commission to request the money be used to pay possible legal bills related to his defense against any alleged misdeeds."

Like disgraced Republican congressman Bob Ney of Ohio, Foley went into alcohol rehab after being confronted with his behavior. Ney plead guilty to federal criminal charges of taking bribes from Jack Abramoff and is now facing 10 years in prison and $500,000 in fines.

Given the amount of change in Foley's campaign coffers, one has to wonder if Foley has more in common with Ney than just rehab. Follow the money...





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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:57 AM
Response to Reply #41
54. If I were a page, I'd probably have an interest in a political career
and if that were the case, saving emails and such could possibly give me a boost up in my career - a little blackmail material could lead to a very sweet job offer from some politically connected group or lobbying organization.

Hell, the guy may have thought sleeping with Foley would have gotten him a leg up in this world, there are plenty of people of both sexes who have slept their way to the top.

Yeah, I'd have saved them, even if I never used them. But if I erased them, then I could never use them if the opportunity arose.
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Chipster Donating Member (139 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #41
122. Old Files, Old Machines
The thought crossed my mind, but then I thought about how many old files I have, and even an old machine or two with more old files, and decided it was actually quite plausible.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:08 AM
Response to Original message
47. This belongs on the front page. nt
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Nimrod2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 07:04 AM
Response to Original message
55. OMG!!!! The gift that keeps on coming....nt
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
56. --------------
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
58. Consensual between adults
I don't believe what happened at 21 counts.
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #58
59.  Like Bill and Monica
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #59
60. Yes.
Otherwise this will be twisted into a 'why are Democrats such hypocrites about gay people' story..
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. Uh...............LOL.
'Why are Democrats such hypocrites about gay people' :+

Good one. That's a hoot.
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Maryland Liberal Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
65. So now the LA Times is covering for Foley?
It's time for the LA Times to do the right thing, and turn the name of this page over to the police. If noone will testify against Foley, he will get off scot free.
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Irreverend IX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
70. It was inevitable that this would come out
There was no way Foley just "kept it online." With all those years in Washington and such persistence in going after his young victims, he must have screwed at least a few of them.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
71. Doesn't RUSH LIMBAUGH
Want to Know WHO was on TOP? :)

That was part of his show the other day as I recall, that real MEN, real LEADERS had sex on TOP, missionary style.

Missionary Style seems to have changed a bit, looks like DOGGIES are doing it Missionary Style.

Well, the Bible said there would be strange happenings during the End Times, eh? :)
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Ford Prefect Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
80. The Chicken Hawks' Chicken Hawk
Well, it appears we've now come full-circle on the definition of "Chicken Hawk."
We have a (former) Republican politician who avoided military service during the Vietnam conflict and it's pretty clear now Foley was an older gay man who seeks out much younger males for sexual relationships.

I guess the only question left is: how many others are there?



Schadenfreude ist die schnste Freude (denn sie kommt von Herzen): "Schadenfreude is the most superb kind of joy (since it comes directly from the heart)."
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Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
83. Is that you Captain Oveur?
Captain Oveur: You ever been in a cockpit before?

Joey: No sir, I've never been up in a plane before.

Captain Oveur: You ever seen a grown man naked?

Captain Oveur: Joey, have you ever been in a-a Turkish prison?

Captain Oveur: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators?
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kawktees Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
85. Mark Foley Official Scandal T-shirt
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
87. I think A LOT more will be revealed; from other former pages.
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 10:52 AM by sparosnare
I wondered why Foley resigned and entered rehab so hastily over some "naughty emails" (WH words) - in the back of my mind, I was thinking it's because he'd been doing a lot more than emails and even IMs. Entering rehab was the first step in building his defense story; probably expecting criminal charges at some point.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
89. MSNBC
just carried this report.
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Lautremont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
94. The most scandalous thing to me about all this is
the wine with the pizza. Yuck. Otherwise, this story tells us nothing besides that Foley's gay, which we already knew, and which is neither immoral nor criminal. Ethically shaky, maybe, but this is the least fertile material in the scandal yet.
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LaBanty Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
95. Sex between two gay adults? So what.
I'm more concerned with Foley's trolling underage boys than having consensual sex with a 21 year old adult. This isn't all that damaging. In fact, to fawn over this reeks more of homophobia.

Foley needs to be bagged for soliciting minors, period.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #95
99. They're trying to turn this into a gay issue, away from the predator issue
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 12:40 PM by glitch
that it is. That way they can accuse everyone questioning their actions of gay-bashing.
Don't think it will work with anybody but their true-believers, but all they really need is the appearance of it working. Diebold will take care of the rest.

Edit to add: welcome to DU!
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Ecumenist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #95
110. La Banty, welcome to DU
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 02:30 PM by Ecumenist
:hi:. However, I don't think that people are "fawning" over this particular instance of actual sex. The point is that this "encounter" establishes the fact that brotherman was grooming the underage pages to get to the point of a sexual contact later on. IN FACT, there are emails from an underage page doing more than a little hinting about a past sexual encounter and this person is DEFINITELY underage. Foley talks about getting together AGAIN once the page returns to DC. He also makes a point of saying that he "misses" the kid. The exchange took place between Foley and the page from San Diego. There's nother point where he speaks about having a page visit (with another underage friend), at his home for drinking because, the boys would get in trouble if caught drinking in public due to the lack of majority. There's alot more to this fire, based on the amount of smoke, my dear..
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PatrioticLeftie Donating Member (909 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
97. Things just continue
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 11:56 AM by PatrioticLeftie
to look bad for old Foley.
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
101. This strikes me as Republican damage control. n/t
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
102. Let me guess...
Foley will say that if a former president can get away with having sex with a 21 year old consentual adult, then he can too. Case closed right?
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demo dutch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
103. Just a matter of time until this was coming out too! However is
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 01:53 PM by demo dutch
this just spin to suggest Foley didn't did not have sex the pages? He would wait until they were old enough? His emails certain suggests that he desperately wanted sex with pages
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
106. I actually think this makes Foley look better
He waited until it was a proper time. I have to admit, that seems very level headed and responsible. The real scandal here is the emails to the under aged pages and the cover up. The cover up is what is making this story have real teeth.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
107. It always has to be about a blow-job, doesn't it?
Well, if that's what it takes... :D
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IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
108. Was There Jesus Juice in a Sippy Cup?
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LongTomH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
109. We can hope........
......that someday soon, these young people will be telling their stories to a congressional investigating committee, complete with promises of protection, instead of slowly leaking it to the press. I'll settle for a grand jury.
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
120. I'm not surprised. But Foley didn't resign over having consensual sex
with a 21 year-old. I guess we'll have to wait a bit longer for the news that he had sexual relations with an underage page (which I'm sure is the reason Foley resigned).
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
129. Deleted message
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