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I support voting for Dems who sold out on torture

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Proud2BAmurkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:11 PM
Original message
I support voting for Dems who sold out on torture
I hate them less than the rePUKES they're running against and I know there will be less TORTURE if Democrats are in power instead of those rePUKES. Bottom line.
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thepurpose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm sorry I can't. There have to be other democrats we can support
these people let us down, they let their party down and worse of all they let the country down. Why? Do they think the repubs are going to be nice to them. Do think think Bush will be nice. Hell no. They will get the kick in the ass from Bush and the GOP that they now deserve.
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Proud2BAmurkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. If they get majorities the question will be whether THEY will be nice to..
Idiot Son.
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Rosco T. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Primaries are over.. you want another ReThug congress..
.. or want a chance. You vote what you have now... they can pay later.
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thepurpose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. You know what. These people have compromised our values for the last time
enough is enough. I don't want to sell my soul to win. I can't do it.
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Rosco T. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Stay home then, and let your non-vote count for the 'thugs...
.. sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.
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thepurpose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Staying home is not the answer, but how many times can the people you
support shit on you before you believe it's not a good deal for you? I love being a liberal. I love the democratic party and I love my country. I hate 12 democrats that have sold out in order to stay in power.
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Rosco T. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Right now. Today. It's black/white...
1. KKKarl was all set to use this against folks like Ford & Brown. In the house, it was gonna pass no matter what. They took the issue away with their vote. Those seats are important to make change. Like it or not.

2. Same thing in the Senate, if we had filibustered, then it would be hung around their necks "soft on terror" and believed by the sheeple. Again, took it away from KKKarl.

3. I'll bet dollars to donuts that it will be in the Supreme Court before November. That's the best hope.

4. Stand tall and support the dems and we house/senate will be retaken... and this mess will be overturned and more.

You don't walk in a bar full of Hell's Angels and scream "ALL YOU PUSSY BIKERS SUCK!", no matter how much you may think it.
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thepurpose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. You can't seriously believe what you just wrote.
While it might have still passed this was our chance to stand together as a party and so America we have a message.

They are going to hang the soft on terror label around our necks any way.

We are losing election after election because we don't fight back, we don't stand together and we don't work to the lowest common demonator. Americans want a simple message and a choice. Being republican lite is not a choice. They just took away the rubber stamp republican argument because 12 of our side just enabled them.

Mark my words the Supreme Court will not interfer in this in way that is helpful to us.

I want to win and kick these asshats out of office too. Maybe just as bad as you. But I will not and can not sell my soul to do it.
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Rosco T. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. OK the.. what are you going to do?
Primaries are over, if you don't for the Dem now what do you do?

a. Stay home and not vote - congrats, you just added (effectively) +1 to the 'thugs

b. Vote a 'protest vote' - congrats, you just added (effectively) +1 to the 'thugs

Reality Check time. Either you vote for CHANGE (Thugs to Dems) or you'll never have the chance to vote for change (old Dem to new Dem)

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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #15
27. Your logic evades me...
Bush: Democrats the 'Party of Cut-and-Run'
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/09/28/bush.ap/index.ht...

~snip~

"President Bush counterpunched at Democrats on Thursday, saying their criticism of the war in Iraq has turned their party into one of "cut-and-run" obstructionists."


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So, tell me again why it was important that nobody raised too big a stink up on the Hill, today?
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. So voting for someone who will vote with the Rs anyway is your
solution? Doesn't change a thing.
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Rosco T. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. No.. you didn't read what I wrote...
Until we can rid ourselves of scum like KKKarl, we have to play it very simply. There's a big difference between "voting with the R's" and "not handing them a gun to blow our brains out".
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #17
25. I think we've already been mortally wounded as a nation.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Don't donate to Democrats who caved on this, but...
...vote for them over the Republican.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. LESS torture as opposed to MORE torture ...
... gee, I feel so much better now.

Apologies, Proud2B. I know what you're trying to say, and I know your heart is in the right place.

But right now, I am not in a mood to choose between two evils. Torture is torture. And no matter how anyone spins it, there is no middle ground.
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Montauk6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. I agree, Nance, lines HAVE to be drawn.
This is not just about accountability to the party, it's about accountability to the principles that are SUPPOSED to be about what this country is all about.
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guinivere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. I agree with you and Nance.
This is not something I am willing to overlook to win.
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
3. I do too, there's nothing else we can do right now.
We have to come back from the edge... I'd really rather get down slowly than jump off and crash into the ground.

Although it looks more and more like this won't stop until it goes all the way to its bloody conclusion. I only hope the architects are miserable and in pain when that happens.
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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. Chamberlain vs. Hitler
Make your choice. It's a free country. Long live democracy.
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pinkpops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. me too - I think they should spend time on the school board.
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Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. I think it is an awful situation, but taking back Congress is a must
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cenacle Donating Member (165 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. it is awful...
the only way I can comfort myself is by thinking that if we are able to get the Congress back, the Dems owe us. Big time. If they don't do what we want them to, acknowledging that they are there by our will, the Democratic Party will finally crack in two, the Repug-lites and the Progressives. All I can think is we HAVE to get out of Iraq, we HAVE to stop the neocon fascist freight train, and what we have to do this are these sometimes infuriating individuals. If we lose both houses in November...honestly, I cannot think about this.

Sometimes I wish we could follow Ken Kesey's advice from the 60s: turn our backs on the whole shitfire and say FUCK IT.... :grr:
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Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. They owe their core support hugely
I am saying this a sympathetic foreigner, but if I was American I'd still vote Democratic because the GOP are pitiful representations of human thought at its worst. These last five years have been a nightmare for anyone who holds the ideals of the Enlightenment and the 'age of reason' dear, or have been at the end of two horrible wars or a class war on the poor, or a woman whose rights to bodily self-determination hang in the balance (and many other examples). If the Democratic Party take one or both Houses this November, we'll at least be closer to ending this nightmare.

I am not going to think about what happens if the party fails in November because the consequences are severe for the whole world. I'll only face that if I have to on the following weekend.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
19. The only one actually in a close race is Bob Menendez
And at the very least I could reationalize supporting him because he's been a solid progressive on pretty much everything else. I don't know why he voted for this horrible bill. I do know that he is much more fit to represent New Jersey in the US Senate than Tom Kean Jr.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
23. Democrat who sells out on torture = Republican
Some of us, unfortunately, now have the unenviable task on November 7 of voting either for the Republican candidate or the Republican candidate.

Sorry, but that's just the way it is. Right now, Karl Rove is jerking off like a hyperactive baboon over this.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-28-06 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
24. Do you realize this is pure Rove? It's ingenious. October surprise came
early.

First get this bill voted on in both Houses before recess.

Second, get the names of the democrats who voted for and against the bill and use either column to your advantage for November 7.

If the dem voted against the bill, use that fact to pound away that the candidate is soft on terror and is sympathetic toward more attacks on this country.

If the dem voted for the bill, let the candidate lose his/her base by being unable to sufficiently explain and/or justify the vote.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-29-06 05:21 AM
Response to Original message
26. After 06, start working on that. You can't trust them
to fight this administration on the real major issues of our time, but let them serve as some use this election. After that, work on getting them to change or get the party some primary challengers (maybe well known democrats in the state).
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