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Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:35 PM
Original message
Poll question: Is Hugo Chavez a dictator?
So the new semester started for me today, and my Government and Economy teacher made a remark about oil prices as well as "Hugo Chavez is a nice little dictator in Venezuela." But I recall some elections some time back. Were the elections fair, or is my teacher just stupid?

Sorry, polls are turned off at Level 3.

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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. President.
Your government and economy "teacher" :eyes: is an ass who should be banned from "teaching".
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phusion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. Answer to your questions: Yes and Yes
The elections were fair and your teacher is stupid. :)
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MrMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Chavez's government also survived a coup attempt.
Chavez is definitely a strong executive, and is not shy about exercizing his power, but he is by no means a dictator.
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phusion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. True...
Have you ever seen "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised"? It has footage of the coup...Awesome documentary.

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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. Compared to what we have Chavez is a lovable muppet.
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rwenos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. Let's Not Kid Ourselves
There are PLENTY of ways to rig elections. Just set them on a day when all the little people have to work in the fields. And then there's Stalin's deathless line: "Who votes does not matter. Who counts the vote . . . that matters."

There's no payoff for the Democratic Party to defend Chavez, other than for the same reason the Pub's have to lick his boots - O-I-L.

Chavez started out as a populist, but he's looking like a dictator nowawadays.
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phusion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Yea, rig elections when the "little people" have to work in the fields
Edited on Mon Jan-23-06 09:46 PM by phusion
That would REALLY benefit Chavez. :sarcasm:

I see the protests against Chavez...They all look like Freepers to me. And they are very WHITE.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. And very Rich and want to keep
it that way..they're scared shitless they're going to lose one bolivar!
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rwenos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
30. OK, But Do You Really Think . . .
The elites will end up resisting Chavez? The history of strongmen in Latin America is the history of co-opting the oligarchy.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #30
41. Do you call "arresting" him and overthrowing his government...
in addition to sending the police after protesters of the coup (killing quite a few) as resisting?
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. the anti-Chavez coup plotters supsended the Constitutions too
and dissolved the legislature.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. the anti-Chavez coup plotters supsended the Constitutions too
and dissolved the legislature.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. Buena suerte.
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. "Just set them on a day when all the little people have..."
...have to work in the fields."

Um, the "little field worker people" are the ones that overwhelmingly support Chavez.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. "A loveable muppet"!
LOL! I think Chavez is a loveable muppet, anyway!
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
28. that was quick, Swamp Rat!
and the original was bad enough!
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
43. best leader of a nation this planet has seen on a long time,
hands down.
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #43
57. But I like our bucket of LARD, not.
and all our little piggies in their starched white shirts.

Chevez is a leader for many of the world's repressed and unrepresented that are against Neo-liberalism and the "great free trade lie".
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
55. Even so, at least physically, he reminds me of this dude


I suppose he's democratic enough. A bit heavy handed, perhaps, and with that attempted coup on his resume. But the Carter Center did certify 1998 and 2004 (but not 2000, due to unconstitutionally early elections, and non-transparency). But just so long as he's producing results for his people, the US shouldn't have alot to say (but probably will anyway, knowing Bush and Company.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. Don't forget the internationally monitored recall effort that failed
Whatever you think of Chavez, he is democratically elected by our own professed standards.
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BushOut06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Ironic, isn't it?
Not too long ago, it was the elections in Central & South America that were crooked and rigged. My, how times have changed.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
29. The pendulum Schwings!
I can't wait for our Faaaaaaaaar right penulum to Swing back the other way!
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Fenris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Indeedy.
He's managed to be elected even after attempting a coup. That's like super-Bonapartism! :D
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. Cornyn thinks Bonapartism is belief in the mysticism surrounding this:
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Fenris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #19
34. On a bonaparte is worthless if you get the short end.
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Fenris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
5. He's certainly a strongman, but he's a legitimately elected strongman
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MrMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
22. A predictable riposte:
Edited on Mon Jan-23-06 09:53 PM by MrMonk
"So was Hitler." Actually, Hitler was not elected, he was appointed after the Nazis and similarly minded groups took control of the parliament. (I don't think that Mussolini was elected, either. I doubt that any of the notorious dictators of the past century actually were elected.) Rather than arguing that, I would just challenge him/her (nicely) to tell you precisely what similarities he/she sees between Hitler and Chavez.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
6. Hussein was a president too. Some refer to the leader of CHINA as pres.
Edited on Mon Jan-23-06 09:40 PM by HypnoToad
Doesn't make them nice people either.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. He hasn't caused the deaths of 30,000 civilians either
Unlike some people.
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. Hugo es un presidente. Tu maestra es una idiota
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
31. Si, es Verdad!
:toast:
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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
13. Less inconsistencies than the 2004 elections
Edited on Mon Jan-23-06 09:45 PM by DrDebug
Even if there was some fraud there was significantly less fraud than with the election of George Bush. Hugo Chavez is a president who was elected democratically and your teacher is stupid.
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
14. Chavez not even on the list of dictators published last Sunday in Parade
magazine. That's a pretty conservative publication - I'd say your "teacher" is extremely biased and unprofessional. Those type of teachers are also extremely threatened by any student who challenges them or argues with them or corrects them. They'll get back at you with their grading. So just send him some factual material anonymously; or leave a stack of copies in the classroom for the other students - but seriously, anonymously. Alternatively, keep a diary of his blatantly incorrect statements, and at the end of the semester, turn it into his dept. chairman AND the dean's office. If you have to take additional classes in that dept., make that anonymous also.
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Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. Dean? I'm in high school not college.
I'm not sure who the department chair is, but I'll turn it into the principal.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. Thank you for being an
activist in high school, Massacure!
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phusion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
16. You might want to ask your teacher
if he/she is aware of the oil/gas breaks that the "nice little dictator" has supplied to the poor of this country?

Then ask if Bush would ever do something like that for his own citizens, let alone another country?
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Nutmegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
35. The Bush cabal...
Edited on Mon Jan-23-06 10:33 PM by Nutmegger
would never think of doing that in a million years!! This is an embarrassment to the United States. We have a nation that, regardless of motives, gives discounted fuel...that's so sad!

Cheers!
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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
17. Id like to vote other:
Edited on Mon Jan-23-06 09:47 PM by Endangered Specie
-suspiciously 'popular' president-

Sorry, I know he seems to be pretty good, but I will always remain skepitcal of someone who wins elections by such vast majorities... Power corrupts.


(just remember the names of famous dictators who were once elected)
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MrMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. I don't remember any.
I remember some who were appointed, and some who seized power, but none who assumed power by direct election.
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Catrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
37. The Venezuela election was declared one of the cleanest
possible by all international agencies that monitor them. Including Carter. Some disgruntled rightwingers from the wealthy, ruling elite, claimed it was not. The votes were recounted and again monitored with the same results.

Chavez is NOT a dictator. He remains very popular with the people of Venezuela who elected him. International organizations that record progress in countries, have stated that Venezuela has reduced poverty and illiteracy by huge percentages since Chavez was elected. This is what he promised he would do. He is using Venezuela's oil revenues to benefit his own people. That's why the oil cartels hate him. They wanted to continue to rape Venezuela while the people continued to live in abject poverty.



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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #17
44. For a president to be truly popular is very simple
All you've got to do is truly represent the interests of the people.

But if you do you run the risk of a coup or assassination.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
20. Chavez was elected by popular vote and Venezuelans are glad for it.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
33. Chaves is not a dictator,but Bush wants to be one.
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NI4NI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
36.  Venezuelan elections were monitored
and sanctioned by at least 3 separate international groups; Jimmy Carter's group was one of them. And BTW, ask your teacher to name every dictator who has made free medical care available for citizens too poor to afford it.
Your teacher it seems is obviously a Republican. Chavez is a strongman not a bully.




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Nutmegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
38. This is from Wiki
Chvez went on to win the Carter Center-endorsed 1998 presidential election on December 6, 1998 with 56.2% of the vote (Guillermoprieto 2005).

~~snip~~

Chvez thus campaigned on an anti-corruption and anti-poverty platform, while pledging to dismantle puntofijismo, the traditional two-party patronage system (Guillermoprieto 2005).

~~snip~~

No offense but your professor sounds like a freeper nutjob. I had one of those last year and had to show him the books.

HOWEVER, I find reports such as this a bit disturbing.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chvez, who says he is leading a socialist revolution for the poor in his country, has teamed with allies in Congress to undermine the country's judiciary and limit press freedoms, Human Rights Watch said on Wednesday.

Absolute power corrupts absolutly...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Chavez
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #38
50. I've seen a lot that undermines HRW's credibility in SouthAm, and a
lot of it is in a recent thread here at DU.
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Nutmegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. I'll have to do a search
I really don't know that much about the HRW; thanks for the heads up!

Cheers!
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datadiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
39. I'm not sure but,
I also believe he is the best thing to happen to his country. He is a better president than *smirky
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
40. Why is this stupid question posted here? How many times does this guy hav
to win a popular election??
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. Because the MSM don't tell,
or if they do tell they spin. And hardly anyone is paying attention anyway.

Though one would think DU-ers would know by now.

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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
42. 2004, according to Carter Center, was legit. 2000, on the other hand,
the Carter Center, according to Wikipedia, couldn't certify, due to unconstitutionally early elections, and non-transparency.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
46. Where do you go to school?
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Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. Some place within Wisconsin's eighth congressional district.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Howdy! I'm WI-5 meself
How red is YOUR district? Mine is quite red, but getting bluer if I have my way.
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Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. I hope the door hits Green on the way out.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. My favorite pub just had a fundraiser for him for Governor
So, the door may hit him on the way out of WI-8, but I hope we ALL don't end up with either him or Walker.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I'm trying my damnedest to get rid of Sensenbrenner. We may have a chance.
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samhsarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
49. Ask your teacher how many dictators are elected.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
58. any leader that doesn't let the US come and a take advantage
Edited on Mon Jan-23-06 11:24 PM by jonnyblitz
of their cheap labor and resources (especially if there is oil involved) is an eevill communist dictator and has to go. I am sure the CIA and "School of the America's" types are trying their damndest to figure out how to get rid of him

and besides FOX news tells us he is a dictator...
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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
59. The Carter Center said they were fair
farcically, some people in this country (mostly on the right) claim that the elections in Venezuela were NOT fair because of electronic voting fraud, as evidenced by the fact that the exit polls were wrong.

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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
60. Of course not. And ANYONE who insists on repeating this crap is an idiot.
Edited on Tue Jan-24-06 12:43 AM by TankLV
Or worse and not worth giving any attention to.

PERIOD.
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