Yes or No: Will the Neoconazis ever be prosecuted?

[Philosoraptor]

Many have been involved in war crimes, crimes against the constitution, crimes of mass theft and corruption beyond our wildest dreams, yet there they still are, breaking the law with wild abandon and without fear of prosecution.

Do the wealthy and powerful and well connected ever get arrested for ANYTHING? It seems the more horrific the crimes, the more likely the perps are to get away with it. Genocide? You can't seriously arrest the president for genocide can you? Illegal wiretapping and spying on U.S. citizens, no president could be seriously brought up on charges for that could he?

The odds say that yes, they'll all skate and retire and write books and live out their lives like respectable elder statesmen, and have their faces carved on mountains or stamped on coins.

But, these are some pretty serious god damned charges we're talking about, not lying about love affairs, will any one of them ever go down to see the judge? Ever?

[MrPrax]

1. Nope n/t

[mmonk]

2. No

Not without a voter purge of incumbants. That is unlikely since the truth is obscurred by current broadcast media.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

3. Odds are against it. n/t

[liberal N proud]

4. NO

If they are ever taken out of power, they will just slither away and live out their lives on the fat wallets they will have from fleecing America

[acmejack]

5. I am slipping into hopelessness,

Actually I marvel they have allowed us to continue to meet in forums such as this. It is only a matter of time until the internet is found to "facilitate terrorists" and all chat rooms and forums are going to have to be closed or substantially modified. I am somewhat amazed we are still allowed to dissent like this, of course they know where we are, so perhaps that is to their liking. Better we are sitting here just talking about doing something...

[marions ghost]

31. well in a "democracy"

you have to allow an illusion of freedom. If they closed internet forums, they would be seen as having taken a big step into totalitarianism. We would instantly become another China. It would be crossing a very dangerous line if they want to keep the idea of "democracy" going at all.

[NOLADEM]

6. Nope

Pardons for all from President Cheney and the Chimperor.

[xchrom]

7. use iran/contra as your map.

if there are any criminal activities followed up -- they will only go up the ladder but so far.

[Lerkfish]

8. this is no longer a perfect world: they have installed activist judges at

every level to cover their collective asses. Even if voted out and even if a democratic majority prevails, the neocons have been consistently and thoroughly stacking judicial benches all around the country, all unnoticed by the poodle media.

the neocons are the largest crime family ever to hit this country, and they've strategically placed "made" men where it counts.

[onenote]

19. believe me, it was never a perfect world

[katsy]

9. not unless corporatism is defeated.

[magellan]

10. Not a snowball's chance in hell

Find a stained dress, on the other hand....

[mtnester]

11. Pre-conviction presidential pardons for any and all, known or unknown

before blivet leaves the WH...includes himself

[leftchick]

12. no way! they get better jobs

and medals of honor.

[Bacchus39]

13. nope, it won't happen

n/t

[Efilroft Sul]

14. All posts so far assume prosecution in the United States.

In the coming years, members of the Bush administration will likely not travel outside of the country, except, perhaps, to Saudi Arabia, for fear of being nabbed and sent to the Hague. If it happened to architects of the Third Reich trying to live out their years in South America, it can happen to Bush and crew.

Yes, I know that Nazis captured long after World War II were tried in Israel.

[135th]

15. Not to sound right wing,

but what exactly are their crimes? People throw this around on every other post, yet I rarely see specifics. Even Olberman didn't name a charge when he dropped impeachable offences. I'm not trying to troll, can someone help me out with this?

[Philosoraptor]

16. gosh...I just can't think of any specific ones, lemmee think about it

[135th]

23. I'm not joking.

People bring this up all the time, but never give specifics. I don't agree with the Bush/PNAC agenda, but I don't see what they have done that they could realistically be prosecuted over. Everything they have done has been done in a manner that lets them rationalize it with a (somewhat spin doctored) interpretation of US or international law.

[Swamp Rat]

22. "People throw this around on every other post, yet I rarely see specifics"

Welcome to DU! :hi:

You just got here, so you must be talking about other message boards.

Stop trolling and start reading.

Time for you to educate yourself.

There is a LOT to read on this website alone. Start here by reading the DU Journals: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/

I recommend: Octafish, H2O Man, Plaid Adder, WilliamPitt to name a few.

[Lars39]

24. Here's a start:

http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2005/01/18/scandal/index.html

[135th]

27. Thanks

Like I said, I'm not trolling. I was just looking for an answer to my question.

[Union Label]

17. Not as long as they have Diebold

[sweetheart]

18. check out the film: "downfall"

Its a german-language film with subtitles about the last days of hitler's life, according
to his personal secretary who you see the living person in the film, and you get to see
what the downfall of a neocon actually looks like. They ask the bodies be burned with
gasoline after the suicides of honour.

The acting is brilliant, and given the 9/11 like significance of hitler INSIDE germany, the
accuracy of the film surely was more than entertainment, a rather deeply moving thing to
see the historical reenactment of the last time nutty militarists when on a campaign for
oil in asia.

After watching that film, i don't believe the neoconazis will ever be prosecuted, no matter
what happens, the crime is done and we all pay now.

[135th]

20. That was a great film.

One of the best war movies I have ever seen. I think the best war films are the ones that don't make you want to go enlist while the credits are rolling.

[sweetheart]

32. Yes i think i might buy it

The acting of the generals that defended berlin, and the incredible strain on a republican-like
regime as its in the final end of things... how the battlefield generals were left holding
the bag, one of the actors playing the general defending berlin, was acted with toshiro mifune
levels of gravitas, very impressive, hitler squandered one of the world's finest military commands.

It humanizes hitler to the point where that bush angry rant about colin powell being a terrorist
on TV at his recent speech, looks like when hitler was raving in the bunker about jews. Seeing hitler
humanized, it is every the more spooky to see the latest bush speeches and to hear the new goering
and himmler doing the cheney rumsfeld.

I agree, it is amongst the best war films i've ever seen, belongs in any collection or library without
question, the shakespearean drama is all too real, and meeting the secretary in living flesh is
heartwrenching.

[sweetheart]

34. Here's the new german cartoon version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qttu7_0Tplc

[bobbolink]

21. Not unless people in this country develop a conscience, and

start paying attention.

Or, until/unless the rest of the world takes matters into their own hands, as happened with Germany.

Delightful prospect, yeah?

[dogday]

25. Depends on how freaking bad things get

the more the people suffer, the angrier they get....

[wiggs]

26. Yes. Impeachment is prosecution. Moreover, I will say

that prosecution (other than impeachment) and jailtime are the only significant remedies we have and I hope they are pursued. Even jailtime will not restore what we have lost as a nation in terms of treasure (common lands and air, dollars) and in terms of world standing. I feel that SO MUCH has been gained by those behind the scenes that a little jailtime by some neocon figureheads is worth the price.

Impeachment merely amounts to firing...discontinuing work after being found guilty of embezzlement, fraud, manslaughter, etc.. Firing is not enough.

Having said that, I hope they are impeached via turnover of both House and Senate in November. I am pessimistic that the hoped for turnover will happen. If GOP keeps one or both houses, I hope that public demand, states prerogatives, or GOP revolt will result in impeachment anyway. I fear the next months after the elections will be that bad.

And after impeachment: jail. At the least.

[NVMojo]

28. America would need to grow a huge conscience for this to ever happen.

sigh ...

[sofa king]

29. No, but they might get themselves killed.

One thing I've noticed is that these people have flaunted the law to get their own way, yet they depend heavily on the American belief in the rule of law to keep it. They're busy little beavers, building their little lodge of totalitarianism. They are already quite smug about it--the President's signing statements are the legal equivalent of "what are you going to do about it"?

What they apparently don't realize is that once they reach a certain point, the real criminals are going to move in, and they're going to do it by blowing heads off. Once the democratic process is wrecked for good, and the bureaucracy is open to any Tony Montana who dares to take it over by force, these little bookworm pussies are going have to get out of town, or get bullets in the head.

Some of them--Cheney and Rumsfeld, for example--seem to already know how to play that game. The Bill Kristols and Karl Roves, however, are dependent entirely on the rules as they stand--they break those rules constantly, but they also hide behind them.

When they can't anymore, they're going to have to run like hell, or they're gonna die.

[marions ghost]

33. "little lodge of totalitarianism"

I like that image. It really is a house of sticks, woven feverishly. It is more vulnerable than they think. However I do see Bushco as "real criminals"...

[eShirl]

30. Their escape of justice will embolden the next gang which will be10X worse

Just like the Iran-Contra criminals' escape of justice emboldened this current crop.