The Pope must die, says Muslim

[kurth]

The Pope must die, says Muslim
By STEVE DOUGHTY and NICK MCDERMOTT
Last updated at 12:33pm on 18th September 2006

A notorious Muslim extremist told a demonstration in London yesterday that the Pope should face execution.

Anjem Choudary said those who insulted Islam would be "subject to capital punishment".

His remarks came during a protest outside Westminster Cathedral on a day that worldwide anger among Muslim hardliners towards Pope Benedict XVI appeared to deepen...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/new...

[bryant69]

1. That certainly helps matters

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[BootinUp]

2. Somebody let me know when time starts moving forward again. n/t

[jobycom]

3. Yay. Freeper Muslims. Sounds like Ann Coulter or Pat Robertson.

[winter999]

7. The only difference is that Coulter just talks shit,

these guys have already gone out and killed a 77 year old nun and firebombed 7 (as of this post) churches across the globe.

"You're very violent."
"I'll kill you for saying that!"

[KingFlorez]

9. Coulter has talked about poisoning supreme court justices

She might not have done anything violent, but she still is no better than these people

[jobycom]

25. So you're telling me that the man who said this has killed a nun and

firebombed a church, or are you just saying that people who identify themselves as being of the same religion as the man who said this have killed a nun and firebombed 7 churches?

Because if you're saying all Muslims are responsible for the words of this one man and the deaths and bombings done by some thugs who use Islam as an excuse for their violence, then you have to say that all Christians, including the pope, are responsible for the 100s of thousands of innocent Muslims slaughtered by Christian forces in Afghanistan and Iraq, not to mention the people killed in Oklahoma City by Timothy McVeigh, and, if you want to go back a few years, tens of millions of people slaughtered by the Christian German forces who used a Christian emblem on their flag and imprinted, in German, "God is on our side" on their soldiers' belt buckles.

Generalizations are the root of all evil in the world. Yes, probably including that one.

[smirkymonkey]

39. However, many of these people blame all Americans for the

actions of our government - how is that any different?

I am just really getting tired of the double standards on this board.

[ComerPerro]

33. that's only because Coulter and her kind don't have to kill anyone

to get power or control.

Otherwise, they would.

Well, not them. They are cowards. But they would incite people do to it for them

[Coexist]

4. Who does he think he is, Pat Robertson?

Please.

[saltpoint]

12. LOL! Pat probably is stomping around his office in a jealous rage.

Up til now, Pat assumed HE was the most unstable and psychotic religious extremist.

And now there's sharp competition.

[YOY]

5. I wonder if it's flowwing through his mind that he's living up to exactly

what the Pope's stupid comment states...even after the half assed appology.

Oh yes, as has been stated elsewhere:

[Benhurst]

6. ...

[Caution]

8. Yet another instance of the exception being used to prove the rule

every conservative nutjob will use this nutjob as an example of what all Muslims are like. I'm so freaking sick of the US media and this tactic. Lacie Peterson, Chandra Levy, the one in Aruba, the shark attacks, Columbine, 9/11. We've got people afraid to be interns, afraid to marry guys named Scott, afraid to swim, afraid to fly, and afraid to send their kids to school or visit Aruba all because the US media loves to play the game of glorifying the exception as the rule.

[Marrah_G]

19. Sort of the same way......

The Islamic Fundementalist nut-jobs have used other nut-jobs to justify their hate-speech and stir up the middle east causing riots, arson and murder.

Organized fundemental religions are just another tool to control the masses. There are no clean hands in all of this.

[Mike Daniels]

48. Sort of the way people on DU use Robertson and Falwell

as indicative of all Christians?

A previous poster was correct. The double standard on DU when it comes to someone being outraged over a fringe element being used to represent the majority is beyond unreal.

[upi402]

10. yeah yeah, all non-beleivers... yada yada... death to infidels...

Religious fanatics need to just not breathe any more.

"Please God, save me from your fanatics."

[TechBear_Seattle]

11. So most (if not all) Christians must die?

For millennia, Christianity has held that anyone who is not a Christian is de facto an evil person who will burn in Hell for ever and ever, amen. Ever since the founding of Islam, Christianity has held that Muslims were at best deceived heretics (Christians in Arabia at the time of Muhammad held to the monophysite "heresy", and so that is the view of Christ held by Islam) and at worst willing servants of Satan. So Christian leaders condemning Islam is nothing new.

Whence comes all this anger all of a sudden?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

46. Actually, most Christians don't believe that.

I would, if I were a Christian, but nowadays most Christians don't.

[TechBear_Seattle]

49. The issue isn't that most Christians don't hold to an orthodox faith

The point I'm making is that Christianity, as a whole, has been condemning Islam and Muslims from the very moment Islam has existed. What is sparking the brouhaha over Christian condemnation of Islam now, at this moment in history?

[Rosemary2205]

13. Yeah, killing the pope will prove Muslims aren't violent

Makes no freaking sense. Pope says Muslims are violent so some moran gets all outraged and says "lets kill the pope". Some people are just too stupid to be alive.

[Ignacio Upton]

34. If the Pope gets assassinated by Al Qaida

It will provoke a new holy war. Not just against the U.S., but the entire Christian sphere.

[Totallybushed]

14. We need

to hear from the REAL Muslims, the ones that reject this fundie shit!! The ones that aren't damning the rest of us to Hell. The ones for peace, justice, and equal rights for all.

I know they're out there, but they are probably too frightened to say anything for fear of the fundies. Just like in America.

[Dorian Gray]

45. I agree, but I also think

that we don't hear from some centralized Muslim cleric condemning these beliefs for two reasons: a) There is no centralized authority in Islam that represents the entire dogma of the faith. The closest we come to a centralized authority is the rulers of Iran, or other such individual states, who may be able to speak in a generalized way about the beliefs of the majority of that state, and b) it doesn't make good press. There are smaller Muslims groups that are speaking out about the violence, but nobody cares because it doesn't sell stories. It's much easier to demonize Muslms as the enemies.

I do hold forth that there is a fanatical element of Islam that exists and feeds off of hatred for the West. It's successful because they embrace those that are downtrodden and promise them a higher ideal. They demonize their enemies (Israel, the US, Christians), and live in fear and hatred. But, that is no different than the entire human condition. Those tactics exist in Northern Ireland, they exist in Europe. Hell, they even exist in the USA when it comes to political fervor.

[michael_1166]

15. Christianity and Islam

are both crap (like any other organized religion).
It's just that Christianity has a better marketing department nowadays.

[hogwyld]

16. What if the pope converts to Islam?

Will that nullify the death sentence?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. It's amazing how an "All Powerful God" needs protection.

It would seem to me that any "God" worthy of the name would be able to fend for itself and not fret about what a bunch of pipsqueeks think or believe about *HIM*. God is a wuss according to the Pope and the Imams.

[treestar]

21. God is a substitute for "me" in their little minds

They don't even realize it.

[smirkymonkey]

40. Yup - Man created god in HIS image, not the other way around.

Small men create weak gods.

[WI_DEM]

18. he will die, probably in the next ten or fifteen years.

[anarch]

22. indeed. "the pope must die". Well, no shit.

Thanks for the reminder of mortality there, angry Muslim guy.

[treestar]

20. "A" Muslim. "one" Muslim. Any single Muslim willing to say a

thing like this gets media coverage.

[Taxloss]

24. This happened around the corner from my home, and involved a friend of

mine who runs a local charity shop and works as a steward at the cathedral.

He says that these remarks were the least of what happened. For five hours, the cathedral had to be almost shut down as a crowd hurled threats and insults towards the Pope, Catholicism, Christianity and the UK. He repeated several of the chants to me - "We got you on the trains, we got you on the planes, we'll get you in the churches" springs to mind.

Chants. From a crowd. Not "just one person".

On edit: he's past retirement age and has seen a lot, but was clearly deeply frightened by what he had seen and heard.

[treestar]

26. I can tell you about Muslims I know who would never say or do

anything like this. Even if you had a crowd there it hardly represents several million people.

This is the MSM trying to stir up hatred of Muslims.

I can quote many "Christians" willing to kill people just for being Muslim, too. Do these people end up on the MSM? Not likely.

[Taxloss]

30. I don't think anyone's claiming this crowd "represents" anything.

When these soi-disant Christians say that they would kill someone simply because they're Muslim - Ann Coulter's remarks to that effect, let's say - do you say "I know lots of Christians who would never say that sort of thing. Why is this getting so much attention?" Do you think the media is stirring up hatred of Christians by reporting the antics of Fred Phelps?

I'm willing to bet that you don't. So why do these fucktards get a pass from being dragged through the media? The fact that violent hate of this kind exists within British Muslim communities is a bi problem. I don't see what the value of ignoring it is.

[treestar]

35. No, but I don't judge all Christians by Ann Coulter

Or hold them all responsible for her views, either.

[tenshi816]

32. The US is not Britain.

You can't compare the two countries in this. For one thing, size and population. England is comparable in size to, say, the American state of Georgia (except that Georgia, at 59,441 square miles, is just under 10,000 square miles larger than England, which has 50,346 square miles). However, Georgia has a population of about 10 million people while England (not the entire UK, but just little England alone) has a population of just over 50 million people. Think about that: more than 50 million people living in a country 10,000 square miles smaller than Georgia. Of the total of roughly 60 million total population in the UK, roughly 2 million are Muslims and by far the largest percentage of those Muslims live in England.

It's like, as I said in another post, living in a pressure cooker, waiting for it to blow up.

The MSM has a lot to answer for but it's more of an American problem than a British one; I'll take the BBC over anything the US has to offer.

Here are some statistics you might be interested in, at this link: http://www.imaginate.uk.com/MCC01_SURVEY/Site%20Downloa... They're from a survey that was done for a television programme on the UK's Channel 4. Although the survey is called "Attitudes to Living in Britain,", only Muslims were polled and included young and old, male and female.

Here's a sample of the results:

- Refer to the United Kingdom as "my country": 49 percent.
- Agree with the idea that Muslims should keep themselves separate from non-Muslims: 4 percent.
- Prefer to live under Sharia law: 30 percent.
- Wish to see Britain as an Islamic state: 28 percent.
- Punish the people who published the Danish cartoons: 78 percent.
- Arrest and prosecute British people who insult Islam: 68 percent.
- The Jewish Holocaust did not happen or has been exaggerated: 19 percent.
- 9/11 was a conspiracy by America and Israel: 45 percent. (Plus 35 percent reply "don't know.")
- Princess Diana was killed to stop her marrying a Muslim: 36 percent.
- Agree that the July 2005 transport bombings were justified because of British support for the war on terror: 22 percent. (Of note: 31 percent of young Muslims agree, compared to 14 percent of those 45 and over.)
- Can understand why young British Muslims might want to carry out suicide operations: 13 percent.
- Think that a Muslim who knew about an act of terrorism being planned by another Muslim and did not report it to the authorities is not at all to be blamed: 9 percent.

Just because the Christians you refer to are wrong, it doesn't make extremist Muslims right. In the UK, as I said, it's extremely crowded and we have to find a way to live together, but there have to be concessions on both sides. Non-Muslims in Britain should not have to lose their right to free speech to avoid offending Muslims, particularly when it's considered fine and dandy to insult other religions.

Edited to add population information.

[treestar]

36. Who says the extremists are right?

I'm just wondering why Muslims who are NOT extremists never make the media.

[tenshi816]

42. Two reasons,

in my opinion:

- Non-extremists just want to get on with their lives and not be a focus of the media, and

- In Britain, at least, there are far more extremist sympathizers than people in America are aware. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to participate in a terrorist attack, but that their loyalties are always going to be with the ones who do. Of course they're going to make news: there are a lot of them and they're media savvy.

There has simply not been enough condemnation of violence coming from so-called moderate Muslims in Britain. For example, among the Muslims of my acquaintance, there's an attitude that they're Muslim first and British second, and while they themselves would never engage in acts of terrorism, they're unwilling to criticise those who do. Muslims display incredible solidarity.

There's another problem of not being able to see the forest for the trees in the Muslim community. Tasmin Aslam, a spokesperson for the Pakistani foreign ministry commenting on the Pope's speech, said (apparently without a hint of irony):

"Anyone who describes Islam as a religion as intolerant encourages violence."

George Orwell would be proud.

[smirkymonkey]

41. "Arrest and prosecute British people who insult Islam: 68 percent"

So 68 percent of polled British Muslims beleive that British people - living in Britain, mind you - should be arrested and prosecuted simply for "insulting" Islam. I am sorry, but that is no "peaceful" minority.

What fucking nerve.

[tenshi816]

31. The trains worry me more than the planes

because of the complete lack of security. Back during the summer I went with my kids from Leeds to Sheffield on a hugely overcrowded train early on a busy Friday evening (and the train was then bound for London and thence to Plymouth). There was not even room to get into the carriages so we were standing cheek by jowl with loads of other people in that area around the loo - it was so crowded that if people had fainted, they wouldn't have been able to fall down. We had been travelling for about 15 minutes when the thought popped into my head, completely unbidden: "What carnage a bomb would cause on this train."

I'm so sorry to hear about your friend.

I also wish more people understood what it's like in the UK, in our little pressure cooker of a country. Muslim anger is not anything new here - it certainly pre-dated 9/11 and it's gone downhill from there. When 9/11 happened, I was working on a degree at the University of Bradford (I'm sure you know how large the Muslim population is in the city of Bradford, about 20%, and there's a similar proportion of Muslim students at the University). There was anger there before 9/11 and there's more anger now, 5 years later. Al Muhajiroun was an active student society at Bradford Uni until they were banned by the NUS a few years ago.

I know what it's like first-hand to be told, in all seriousness, that one day I would be wearing a burqa. I know what it's like to be told by a young Muslim man that the reason he wouldn't look me in the eye when he spoke to me was that as a non-Muslim woman, a kaffir, I was an inferior being and his religion forbade him from making eye contact. I know what it's like to overhear people rejoicing about 9/11 and looking forward to the "next time". All these things happened at my university. I graduated in 2003 but I don't imagine things have changed since then.

I wish I knew a solution. I wish it were as simple as saying "we'll be nice to you if you'll be nice to us." Extremists don't do "nice". Right-wing Christian religious wackos don't, and Muslim ones don't either. It's just too bad there's not a way to round them all up and put them someplace where they can have at it, while leaving the rest of us the hell alone.

[Irreverend IX]

43. What the hell?

In the UK, you can get busted by the cops for swearing at young delinquents who are trespassing in your yard (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/new... ), but the authorities show no concern when dozens of people are gleefully proclaiming their intent to commit terrorist acts? What kind of crack is the law enforcement over there smoking?

[tenshi816]

44. It's political correctness gone mad.

The police in Britain are bending over backwards nowadays to avoid offending minorities. The cynic in me believes it's being done to offset all the years when they behaved exactly the opposite. There have been exposes over the last several years of institutional racism on the part of the police force and they're trying to clean up their act, but are running the risk of going too far in the opposite direction.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. Let's say the pope insulted black people.

Let's say his speech read:

"blah. blah. blah. As Grand Wizard of the KKK Skeeter Pudknocker once said, 'negroes is a bunch of thuggish, over-sexed porch monkies.' Blah. Blah. Blah."

And then Gunmaster G of the West Side Easties said, "man, I'm gonna bust a cap in the Pope's ass."

Then apparently, according to some people, Gunmaster G's comments are supposed to be proof that the Pope is ironically correct about black people.

[TheFriedPiper]

27. Big difference, one is born black, one CHOOSES to follow superstition

[saltpoint]

28. This policy extremist Muslims have of calling for the death of those

they disagree with -- the Pope in this case, or Rushdie -- whoever it is...

Wow. What a policy.

Seems like it's not, you know, sustainable.

[Truthiness Inspector]

37. Yes, what a policy

and even better when people make excuses for it.

[Xenotime]

47. Sounds a lot like *'s policy if you ask me.

[oasis]

29. Sears must die, says local Walmart manager.

[MrSlayer]

38. Hang the Pope!

Hang the Pope! (x6)
Hang him with a fucking rope!

Hang the Pope (x6)
Hang him with a fucking rope!

Let's go to the Vatican!
Get him out of Bed!
Put a noose around his neck and hang him til he's dead!

Hang the Pope! (x6)
Hang him with a fucking rope!

Hang the Pope (x6)
Hang him with a fucking rope!

Let's go to the Vatican!
Get him out of Bed!
Put a noose around his neck and hang him til he's fuckin' dead!

Hang the Pope! (x6)
Hang him by his fuckin' neck...............

Nuclear Assault
"Hang the Pope"
Game Over (1986)
Time :38 Seconds