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ryanus Donating Member (511 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 09:49 AM
Original message
Disney's Finger Scan Upgrade Raises Privacy Concerns
"For years, Walt Disney World has been reading the shape of visitors' fingers on its property. Now, the upgraded controversial finger scanning machines scan fingerprint information."
...

Disney says,
"Disney representatives said the technology does not store the entire fingerprint image and scanned information is purged in 30 days.

"We are not collecting fingerprints," Disney representative Kim Prunty said. "We are not collecting personal information. The sole purpose is to create a numerical value that links out guest with their Magic Your Way tickets."

ACLU says,
"They're collecting fingerprints," Central Florida ACLU President George Crossley said. "They're taking fingerprints. They can call it whatever they want. They're taking fingerprints. Everything that chips away at personal rights, anything that chips away at the right to privacy, I'll always be concerned about."
...
"If Uncle Sam decides to hit Walt Disney with a subpoena because they want those records, what is Walt Disney going to do?" Crossley said. "They're going to provide the records right?"

The good news (for now),
"A Disney representative said visitors who object to the finger scanners can use a photo ID instead. However, that option is not advertised at the theme parks."

http://www.local6.com/news/9774630/detail.html
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Lady Effingbroke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. Scan this!


Disney sucks!
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kurth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. "The photo ID option is not advertised"
'Nuf said.
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'd be willing to bet BIG BUCKS those prints are NOT purged
completely from the system.

And I wouldn't be surprised to discover someone was actually buying them from Disney. That seems to be the way things work out, these days.
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kurth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Yep. Storage is dirt cheap
It's more work to purge. Besides, it's valuable information that can be resold.
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nosillies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
4. I'm a privacy freak, who goes to Disney all the time
So believe that I checked this out. The machines don't scan fingerprints. They are a biometric scan. They are taking a geometric picture only, and a formula assigns that picture a number. It is by no means unique, but it is statistically significant enough that it is useful. And yes, you can always refuse and provide an ID. I have seen people choose this option, and they have never been hassled or treated poorly.

This story comes up regularly, especially on the central FL news when things are slow. I guess with Ernesto being a washout, they had to try and dig up something exciting.
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dusty64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I was assured that they
weren't storing cause I was VERY adamant about not allowing it if they were. A big corp lying to the People, say it isn't so! (sarcasm) If they did, I would be happy to join a lawsuit against them.
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nosillies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Same here -- if they're lying, I'll be all over it
Disney wouldn't be the first corporation to do something stupid, nor would it be their first stupid move! But Disney is always more worried than most about the fallout of bad choices, and I don't know that they would risk this.

I could live my life in paranoia worried that everyone I encountered was reporting my every move to the government and then lying about it, but I just have to go about my business normally, with extra precautions when the situation warrants!
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. A biometric scan is similar to the old fingerprint classification system.
The older manual classification system required about a dozen classifications of features on the fingerprint. Using the classification investigators in different locations could eliminate most suspects based on the classification alone --the classification scheme is that good. To confirm that the same person left two different prints required a review of actual fingerprints but the classification alone can narrow it done to a very few people by itself.

I don't know how many points are coded into the system used by Disney, but the more points classified, the closer it becomes to being as accurate an identifier as the law enforcement fingerprint classification system.

Disney moved from two finger coding to one -- it would be interesting to know if the same number of data points are coded or if they increased it to compensate for the dropoff in accuracy and the likelihood of a unique number. To meet the stated goal, the system must track all visitors in a 30 day window. I don't know what the attendance numbers are like at Disney but it strikes me that the level of coding must be fairly high to assure uniqueness. The closer it is to a 12 point system, the closer it becomes to a valuable external identifier for law enforcement use and for targeted marketing.

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nosillies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Hey, thanks for the "inner working" details!
Very interesting. It makes no difference to me, as I've been fingerprinted repeatedly for employment purposes. No hiding for me! But I love learning something new.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. I understand that some people aren't bothered by it.
Edited on Fri Sep-01-06 05:54 PM by Gormy Cuss
Note I said marketing. The day will come when the biometric scanning is so pervasive that every move we make will be tracked. I for one agree with Justice Brandeis that we have the right to be let alone.

on edit: I've been fingerprinted once, in connection with the job where I learned how to read the classification records. Other than that the only time that I've been printed is the mandatory thumbprint for DMV.

I can't imagine offering up biometrics to a private company that I'm paying for a service or product -- I'd just choose not to give them any business. Consumer resistance would make them change their practices. If most consumers agree to it there is no business incentive to drop it.
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nosillies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I agree to it because I have a choice.
If I choose not to give a biometric scan, I can produce a photo ID instead, no questions asked. I would question a business that did not give me that choice.
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nosillies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
6. Here's a link to nearly the same article from just over a year ago
http://www.local6.com/news/4724689/detail.html

I think one of the reasons(besides lack of news)channel 6 is rehashing this is because Disney is implementing new machines. A quick phone call confirmed what I had heard previously -- the new machines are scanning one finger, rather than two. That's the only difference. It is not changing from a biometric scan to a fingerprint scan. It's changing to one finger in order to collect less info, thereby taking a shorter amount of time to scan and turning out fewer errors.
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PresidentWar Donating Member (499 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
10. No wonder the Conservonazis are so pro-Disney.
sieg heil.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Whua?
Conservonazis are still boycotting Disney because they let homosexuals into their themeparks.
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nosillies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. We always go during Gay Days.
The ratio of idiots to normal people is remarkable lower than at other times of the year.
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nosillies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Actually, many of them hate Disney with a passion
Although they offically ended the boycott last year, many conservatives refuse to support Disney becuase of their support of gays.
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. I love Disney World.
Absolutely love it. Walt Disney was one of the most forward thinking, liberal progressives ever. And many of their attractions are themed that way. I would think conservatives would hate it since it's all based on science and socialism. They are great environmentalists as well. Sieg Heil my ass.
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
17. Third thread on this today.
And again I will state that I do not see what the problem is with this. Disney only wants to make sure that those who are using the tickets are the ones who bought them. I just came back from there yesterday and I had no problem at all with the scan.

Just for the record, Magic Kingdom and MGM Studios use the fingerprint while EPCOT and Animal Kingdom still use the two finger shape method. Eventually all will be upgraded to the fingerprint. It's quick and simple.

Universal's theme parks also use it.

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nosillies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Third thread, and it's not even much news.
The local station that "reported" this rehashes this story every once in a while. I even provided a link to last summer's version!

Yes, Universal does it, and so does Sea World. Why isn't anyone bashing them?

Hope your trip wasn't too soggy! We were going to come see the Wiggles, but I wasn't standing in that line in the rain!
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Actually the last day was all rain and the best day.
There was absolutely no one in the Magic Kingdom. You could go on anything at will and since there was no lightning all the attractions were open. It was just perfect, it felt like they were doing everything just for us. Overall the trip was very good, didn't rain at all the first week.
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Red Right and BLUE Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
20. I would love to see Disney break ties with McDonald's
That's about my only Disney complaint. Gay Days are definitely awesome.
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Well the only fare they offer are the McDonald's fries.
And McDonald's does sponsor some of their attractions like Dinosaur in Animal Kingdom. I'm not a huge fan of McDonald's either but I see the affiliation as relatively harmless.
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nosillies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. But the fries aren't harmless!
They're crack.
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. True, they are very tasty.
And very bad for you. The only time I ever eat them is there since you can use them as a snack on the dining plan. I've given up McDonald's completely otherwise.
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