The OBL tape is working

[rudy23]

EVERY talk show in the US is talking about how Osama sounds like a liberal, and how liberal probably WANT to accept his truce. They don't have to have any quotes or evidence, all they have to do is repeat "Osama" and "liberals" in the same proximity 100 times a day.

The same way they say "Saddam" and "9/11" in the same proximity, or "Kerry", "Massachussets" and "gay". They don't have to actually link those words, but if they say them close enough to each other, the American public will make the association for them. It's Psych 101, and it's working, facts and logic be damned.

[Toots]

1. Republican Culture of Corruption

:shrug: What do you expect?

[debbierlus]

2. You must realize something

Most people AREN'T watching these shows....

It is the weekend...where everything gets buried.

This will be gone in a couple of days.....

People are SICK of the Bin Laden fear card.

[earthside]

31. It's the 'Echo Chamber' Effect

No ... most people aren't watching or listening to those shows.

But the evil genius of Rove-Goebbels is that slowly and surely the chosen political 'meme' becomes an accepted part of the discussion.

Grandpa listens to Rush and hears that Osama talks like a liberal; Grandpa tells his son; the son tells the guy at work in the next cubicle; that guy tells his wife; etc. The 'echo chamber' of the radicals has done it again.

Before you know it, half the country has a kind of ambiguous notion that Howard Dean wrote Osama's remarks in tha last tape.

It is unprincipled, manipulative, anti-democracy ... and just plain evil. And as long as the establishment Democratic Party gets spooked by this propaganda method and responds by trying to be "tougher" than the neocons on terror, Iraq, Iran, so on and so forth ... they lose. People will pick the real thing in the end, not 'waanabes'.

Instead the Democrats need to be bold and pound the Bushites on the lies that started the Iraq war, and on the illegal spying. They need to support univeral national health insurance and back public financing of federal campaigns.

But when you listen to Hillary back Bush on Iran, and Colorado Congressman Mark Udall withdraw his co-sponsorship of the Murtha resolution, and Sen. Reid apologize for attacking Republicans --- well, the Rove-Goebbels 'echo chamber' will just get louder and louder.

[bklyncowgirl]

34. That's the same thing the Kerry advisors said about Swift Boat Vets

Don't worry this will all blow over. These charges are preposterous. It's all old gossip.

Sorry. This has to be countered and countered now. Every Democrat has to start saying with one voice.

Osama Bin Laden is a free man thanks to Bush's incompetence

A Democrat would have hunted him down like a dog.

9/11 happened while Bush was President

[bostonbabs]

36. I agree...an aol poll

showed that of the 250,000 people that responded only 20% said that they were very fearful of "attacks" after the Bin Laden tape.
The best news is that Americans are starting to see that they can not trust the news to be true.

[radwriter0555]

3. Karl Rove is an evil genius, isn't he????

He really is just astoundingly, brilliantly evil and effective.

I hate that fukcer.

[Catrina]

28. I disagree that Rove is 'brilliant'. What he is is ruthless. This strategy

of 'lies' and/or 'insinuations' is something most people of average intelligence are very capable of thinking up, but most people are not as dishonest as Rove and the rest of the Bush cabal, nor are they as psychotic. So while they might fantasize about using such tactics against others, they would most likely discard the idea, because mentally healthy people have a conscience.

The reason they succeed is that Democrats don't have the guts to get down in the gutter with them and out-maneuver them, using their own tactics against them.

Whenever we suggest that, look how many posts appear asking the intended conscience-stirring 'are we going to act like THEM now, aren't we BETTER than that?' You will never see questions on a rightwing board like that when a strategy for beating up on Democrats is suggested.

I used to be one of those who asked that question, mistakenly thinking we can still win by 'rising above them'. I totally don't believe that anymore. I think we can and should out-Rove Rove. He is NOT brilliant, and his tactics are so transparent to anyone who has watched them for a while he should be easily out-Roved by now.

One mistake the Dems always make is to go on the defensive. Eg, when subtly compared to Osama, they 'deny' the allegations, instead of going fiercely on the attack, screaming and kicking and using words like 'fascist' and backing it up with the writings of Michael Ledeen when the expected charge of 'that's just hyperbole, shameful and inappropriate in a political debate, you OWE MR. Rove an apology etc. etc.'

My response to that would be, while I had the Media attention, to read sections from Ledeen's writing and demand that the American people be informed about what this man, top adviser to the POTUS, advocates, and which the media has failed to cover.

His writings alone would scare most Americans to death, but have we ever even heard his name mentioned on TV? And why not?

Ron Paul tried to warn Congress about him in a speech he gave when he opposed the war, but it was heard only on Capital Hill. He even brought Ledeen's book to the floor and read passages from it there. So, Congress cannot say they are not aware of the pathology of these people.

Exposure, using any method available, preferably by starting a fight with Rove and tricking the propaganda machine into covering it, is the best way to get media coverage for the treasonous plans of the PNAC crowd.

Why has no Democrat every used their access to TV coverage to alert the public to the existence of this cabal within their government? We know why the media doesn't do it!

Another mistake is apologizing. Never apologize to them. Defending agains tallegations, and apologizing is seen as weak, and is the response expected by Rove. Dems need to get THEM on the defensive.

This is so important now to the future of this country, that imo, all niceties need to be discarded. We are in fact, way more 'brilliant' than Rove but 'decency' is a weakness when you're up against ruthlessness like this.

The 'brilliance' people see in Rove is nothing more than schoolyard bully tactics, very familiar to anyone who has spent time with kindergarten or elementary students. The difference between them and us is that we learned not to use such tactics, and that's what they count on. We need to use them, and be as arrogant and unapologetic as they are.

Bullies stop bullying only when they are confronted. This cabal has the press and the Dems scared to confront them. I don't know why that is. Imo, Rove is a second-rate, not too bright individual were we living in a normal world. He was fired by Bush Sr. eg, because in a normal world, his tactics would get him in trouble, as they did then. That's why normal people, while they CAN think them up, do not use them.

But we are not in a normal world any longer, they have, as they promised 'created their own reality'. And we are behaving exactly as they anticipated, totally shocked by their behavior, and too 'nice' to 'get down to their level'.

[H2O Man]

4. It's really pathetic.

If Usama bin Laden had told his audience that smoking is bad, presents health hazards, and asked folks to quit smoking, would these same talking heads and sleezy political shitheads tell us that it is our patriotic duty to smoke, and to support our nation's tobacco industry?

[thefool_wa]

13. BWAAAAHAAAAHAAAA!

How true.

[C_U_L8R]

14. What's really pathetic...

is the media.... I've never seen such a sorry sack of FLACKS.
No they're certainly not journalists.... these are shills, propagandists,
paid stooges mindlessly doing the bidding of a corrupt regime.
(yeah that means you Tweety ... and all your grubbin apologists too)


Bah... <<spit>>>
I'm turning em off. We will NOT be manipulated !

Where are the REAL HONEST HARDNOSED JOURNALISTS ????
Where is the integrity?? Where is initiative?
Where is the craft and the smarts?
Where are the GUTS ???!!!!

[H2O Man]

16. Larry Franklin was sentenced

to prison yesterday for his roll in the neocon/AIPAC spy scandal. He was part of a spy ring that provided classified information to another nation; that nation was using the classified information in an attempt to influence US policy -- specifically, to encourage a US military strike on Iran. It is not being reported. I could fucking puke.

[rodeodance]

24. 'that' nation

is Israel

[thefool_wa]

27. Check this out

A repug guy I work with (whom I have posted about before) says to me the other day:

coworker (smugly): What you need to do tonight is go home and watch FOX News...

me: I'd rather put a gun in my mouth

coworker (still smugly): Hee Hee, No, They represent your side too. You need to turn on Fox news and watch Hannity and Combs then come in tomorrow and tell me which one you would rather have come over for dinner. That Combs guy makes an ass out of himself on a daily basis.

me: I don't need to watch it. Neither one of them is on my side and they are both mouthpieces for the administration. I don't believe a single word coming out of either of their mouths, they work for Fox.

coworker (in disbelief): Uh huh, well, that's what I figured. (walks away)

Its like all the "regular guy" republicans in this country like their heads planted firmly in the sand that Fox shovels out to them. Its pathetic.

[C_U_L8R]

29. That's what they call

shitforbrains.

I'd say that freep deserves a good office prank.

[H2O Man]

30. The fact that

republicans think a limp clown like Alan Combs represents the democrats shows how limited their thinking is. I do not dislike the guy, and would have no problem carrying on an interesting conversation with him. But he is not a democratic voice. He's a limp clown who gets a pay check from Fox News.

[thefool_wa]

35. Exactly

He is there exclusively so Sean Hannity can go off in his self-righteous way and make him look like an ass on a "daily basis".

Its all so the brainless repug viewers can feel better about themselves by thinking "Oh, look at that wimpy little democrat, Sean is really sticking it to them." I don't dislike Alan, but he needs to get a better job for a reputable news source.

Again, pathetic.

[earthside]

32. Bush Words Like Hitler?

I'm sure everybody has seen this extract from MSRNC from Friday night's Scarborough show:

SCARBOROUGH: Listen, if somebody can’t look at the words that Bin Laden said last night and match them up with what Michael Moore said, with what John Kerry said on Face the Nation with, he said Americans were terrorizing Iraqi women and children in their homes at night, which is what Bin Laden in effect said. What Ted Kennedy has been saying. Remember he said after Abu Ghraib that Saddam’s torture chambers were turned over to — chambers were turned over to new management, U.S. troops, that’s the same thing Bin Laden hit on.

Well, my response is:

"Listen, if somebody can't look at the words of Adolph Hitler and match them up with what George W. Bush said, what Joseph Goebbels said after the Reichstag fire, with what Herman Goering said 60 years ago."

Thursday night, Mike Malloy read part of a speech Hitler made after the Reichstag fire, and it did sounded creepily like Bush advocating for the Patriot Act.

But the sad thing is that only Malloy will do that ... if Howard Dean and Sen. Kennedy and John Kerry would ALL do the same thing -- it would shut the radical Republicans up. But the establishment Dems won't do it. Because the radical Bushites will scream how outragous it is ... so the kind of crap Scarborough puts out there will go only weakly challenged.

[thefool_wa]

37. What difference does it make who said them

If they are true.

1) American soldiers are terrorizing women and children in their homes at night based on nothing more than the lies extracted from (most likely) innocent Iraqis by torture. (ok, some supposition here, contest it if you don't think its true)

2) Abu Graib was essentially the same business under new management, and we have PROOF!

So, WTF? Again I think we should look at the Oil Bourse and Saddam's Y2K decision to convert to a euro-oil market for our answers. It is painfully obvious, through policy and practice, that our government (including the Dems, they know why this war is being fought and they are just playing lip service to the opposition) has no interest in spreading democracy or righting the wrongs of Saddam Hussein. The war on terror (I refuse to capitalize or quotation it) is a ruse, a red herring, and we are all being played by both sides.

New ideas, progressive thinking, and TRUE liberation (i.e. withdrawal of American troops) are the only answers. They are out there and people are starting to believe. Let me know if you want to know more.

[NC_Nurse]

5. I'm sure they are preaching to the choir...

people who already hate liberals and are too stupid to see the bullshit from 50 paces like the rest of us.

What else is new? :eyes:

[debbierlus]

10. This is SO easy....Why is Osma still making tapes?

Why has Bush made us less safe?

Why does he ignore Al Queda?

Why does he not secure our ports?

It is SOOOOOOOOOO simple. Turn it right back on them.

Republicans are WEAK. They have bankrupted the treasury. They have let corporations rule instead of the people. They appoint cronies into high level positions with disastrous results.

There INCOMPETENCE IS MAKING US WEAK.

Say it over and over and over and over....

Just reflect it back onto them....And, when they try to turn it back...say...THE REPUBLICANS HAVE HAD TOTAL CONTROL OF CONGRESS AND THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH & then repeat talking points....

Not difficult.

Howard Dean did it to Wolf Blitzer. You all saw that....

[Libby2]

6. Maybe bin laden and bush,

is what we should put in our search engines.

[rzemanfl]

7. Assuming that the tape is not a fake, Bin Laden is just whacking

the wedge that Rove is holding for him.

[rodeodance]

19. nice put. Also, Michael Ledeen says OBL is dead-in Iran

[rodeodance]

22. here is a link--and yes it is the neocon-buddy of cheney

http://www.nationalreview.com/lopez/ledeen200601090808.asp

January 09, 2006, 8:08 a.m.
One Moment in Time
Our age of revolution.

........

This historical moment is not easy to understand, since we are in transition from a relatively stable world, dominated by a handful of major powers, to something we cannot yet define, since it is up to us to shape it. It seems clear, however, that there is a greater rapidity of change, accompanied — inevitably — by the passing of the leaders of the old order. This is particularly clear in the Middle East, where seven key figures have been struck down in the past six years: King Hussein of Jordan in February, 1999. King Hassan of Morocco in July of the same year. Syrian dictator Hafez al Assad in June of 2000. Yasser Arafat of the PLO in April, 2004. King Fahd of Saudi Arabia in May of last year. Ariel Sharon of Israel was incapacitated by a stroke in early January. And, according to Iranians I trust, Osama bin Laden finally departed this world in mid-December. The al Qaeda leader died of kidney failure and was buried in Iran, where he had spent most of his time since the destruction of al Qaeda in Afghanistan. The Iranians who reported this note that this year's message in conjunction with the Muslim Haj came from his number two, Ayman al-Zawahiri, for the first time.

...........
— Michael Ledeen, an NRO contributing editor, is most recently the author of The War Against the Terror Masters. He is resident scholar in the Freedom Chair at the American Enterprise Institute

[rzemanfl]

38. Isn't he the guy who said Iraq was trying to buy yellowcake? n/t

[boobooday]

8. How many times will this work?

Is there a point of saturation? We have to be getting close.

[rodeodance]

26. well if Ledeen is right--and if he has not pre-recorded some more

then time has run out.

[peekaloo]

9. Which is probably why NBC had Kristen Breitweiser on the Today

show this a.m. Don't know how many people watch on a Sat. morning but she reminded people of the "dead or alive" statement and how the government has done nothing to shore up our nation's security 4 years after the fact.

[H2O Man]

12. That lady

is so impressive.

[Rockholm]

11. George has played this card one too many times.

The gig is up, dimson. The American people are on to you and you actions. Gee, the State of the Union is coming up soon. How conveeeeeeenient.

[Carni]

15. Well the people in my area must be immune...

All I have heard from people is "why hasn't that idiot bush admin caught bin laden"

The media can read any talking point they have been fed, but the rank and file people I have talked to just seem to be even more disgusted with bush.

[w13rd0]

17. Liberals don't demand...

...the death penalty for gays.

Liberals don't advocate marrying and dehumanizing multiple women.

Liberals don't think killing women and children is the way to achieve a political goal.

Liberals believe in a seperation of church and state.

Liberals don't like Bush.

Ok, Liberals and Ossama have one thing there in common.

BUT...

The Bushco Fundie whackjobs have several things there in common with Ossama. So excuse me if I tell the media to go FUCK THEMSELVES...

[leeroysphitz]

18. Did anyone else notice how as soon as the tape was released

the MSM seemed to be caught in a time warp back to 2003? It's like all the progress we made in the last couple of years vanished overnight and the Mathews and Scarboroughs etc were right back in full choreographed, talking points, echo-chamber mode as if the last two scandal and incompetence ridden years never happened. Plame, Katrina, Abramoff, Abu GAh-REB, DSM, body armor, cherry picked intelligence and so on now seem to have NEVER HAPPENED. Just like that!

Over and over all we've been hearing is OBL sounds like a democrat.

It was all on cue and fabulously scripted. What can we do to surmount this terrible advantage they have over us?

Ughh.

[thefool_wa]

25. No coincidence

I'm fairly certain that OBL is actually in one of those CIA prisons in eastern europe turning out these tapes as "war on terror' propaganda.

[thefool_wa]

20. Maybe they're right

What is so bad about maybe finding middle ground on these issues? Because they see the changing of their militant, abusive ideals as "surrender" when in fact it is the only course of action that will make us safer. Plenty of wars have been negotiated to a truce through mutual acquiescence, it is not the same as surrender.

The worst part about it, I read through CNN, watched some CNN, checked around here and other places and, while I found wide mention of OBL's desire to come to a truce, I found absolutely no mention of what exactly those terms are. AND, for the first time, yesterday CNN did not post a complete transcript of the tape. So WTF? Are they afraid that if the American people (on both sides of the fence) hear what Osama actually wants that, maybe, we won't think the price is all that high after all? If it was the same counter-rhetorical BS we have always heard (stop backing Israel, remove your troops from OUR holy land, yadda yadda yadda) then why not post it? We've all heard that crap before and it don't stand up.

I'm not saying we need to hand Osama the key to the white house and let him take over, but I as much as anyone want all this BS to be OVER! At the very least, we need put this "war on terror" crap away and start talking about the real reasons for military action in the middle east. Lies built on lies fed by lies are going to be the undoing of us all.

[TahitiNut]

21. The fascists have had 55 years of practice ... pinko, commie scum.

But it's not liberals who've been doing business with the bin Laden family for decades.

[bullimiami]

23. the same way it is making you and I madder it is doing to a majority of

people.

[rudy23]

33. We definitely need an anti-Rove

Where we should "stay above the fray" is the lying to denigrate an opponent's character. Otherwise, we need someone who can counter his tactics.

I don't think Rove is brilliant. I think he lacks a conscience, but he IS smart in a way that he understands the "average American."

We need to get some marketing experts to help with the Dem party. One thing Rove does well is what my Poetry teacher would have called "the economy of words" Come up with a catchy slogan, and repeat it over and over again. That's marketing 101, and while the Democrats come out with 10 different essays on each position, the Repubs are hammering their talking points into the American psyche (with help from their buddies in the MSM)

They're also good at turning adversity to their advantage. It doesn't matter WHAT happens anymore, what matters is who controls the parameters of the argument.

The Dems on the other hand, can't seem to take advantage of the gifts the Repubs throw in their laps. We should be POUNCING on them for putting out this tape, POUNCING on them for the Google searches, POUNCING on them for their failing grades from the 9/11 commission.

Seriously, I think myself, and many other people on this board could serve our party well as an "Anti-Rove." There are many Dems like me who were raised conservative, have sat around the dinner table for the Archie Bunker hour, and know exactly how to attack conservative talking points. We are ready to be footsoldiers in the war to take back our country, but I fear we are being ignored by mainstream, corporate Dems. Do we want to lose?

[snowbear]

39. Yo Rudy... some Freenoid actually agreed with the post title!

Pretty crazy, huh? Then again, every poll at DU generally tallys several "we donated, so even though we're Freepers we're allowed to vote at DU" votes...

Mistah Boooosh also had a temporary boost in the polls when Roberts was voted in to the Supreme Court.

And if you think about it... it's right at the very end of the 'Scalito' hearings that people started getting a dismal, ho-hum feeling about our Democratic leaders not being tough enough.

Before that time, this place was riding pretty high! And it had been since the elections held in Virginia and New Jersey.

I'd wager ANYTHING ------ that we are only in a temporarly slump here at DU and at other Democratic sites.

The ups and downs happen in waves.. And yeah, the OsamaYoMama tape came out at an appropriate time for Mistah Booooosh to try and slime out of the NSA scandal and to blame Democrats (and the 3 Republicans who voted against it) that the Patriot Act should have been renewed.

Never fear though... He'll experience a micro-boost for a short time.. but there really are a LOT of Americans that are wondering how on earth this thing came out just when Boooosh needed it.

There's plenty of good days ahead.. this too will pass.. you'll see. Three months from today we'll all be on a completely new topic.