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thepurpose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:35 PM
Original message
Why was Karr allowed to drink booze while under arrest? And what was Home
Land Security doing there?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
thepurpose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Ahh, because I want to know about any thing my tax dollars paid for.
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Wonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. ...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. That's the problem.
Everybody knows who she is.

This is some first class stupid shit.
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Wonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. "because I want to know about any thing my tax dollars paid for"
Just trying to help restore a sense of proportion, which seems to have been lost.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #20
68. Did you miss the point?
Or just being obtuse...

The anonymity of the un-photographed coffins of US soldiers.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
54. excellent!
:applause:
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
35. Your tax dollars didn't pay for his ticket
Thai dollars did, is what my SO heard on the news this morning.
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thepurpose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #35
44. Did Thai dollars pay for the Homeland Security Agent's ticket too?
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Ask the governmnet... there was no reason for them to be there
It was all for show. Karr would have been escorted to the plane, flown to LAX, and arrested. It's done all the time. This isn't a big deal.

HS is for domestic situations. That has nothing to do with Karr's ticket and his "wining and dining."
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thepurpose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. Yes. I'm sure the government will get right back to me.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
58. Start with $40 Billion a year to keep cancer grannies from smoking pot
Edited on Mon Aug-21-06 08:21 PM by impeachdubya
Hang a left at $300 Billion -and counting- for the Iraq war, including $9 Billion in "reconstruction" money that can't be accounted for at all.

Then, pause to admire the beautiful grandeur of a Half a Trillion annually (that we know about) for a Military Industrial complex that equals the combined military spending of the entire rest of the planet.

Take a brief spin past the costs of the highest incarceration rate of non-violent offenders in the industrialized world, an FBI whose "top priorities" are fighting things like consenting adult porn videos, and then enjoy the sights, sounds, and smells of corporate welfare and no-bid contract giveaways to Halliburton, Bechtel, and the like.




...hey, dude, you asked.
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salinen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Kinda harse
but I hope we aren't flooded with JBR bullshit like the MSM.
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Kingshakabobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. kick
:kick:
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. The booze was to loosen his lips
"I *hic* didn't do it, really. Just couldn't *hic* afford to get back from Thailand on my own *hic* dime."
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
33. That was my first thought too.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. I think it is a good question nt

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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. he also had Duck for dinner
traveling First Class/Business Class :shrug:
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
53. Ah, the old canard for a possible liar and cheat.
How funny! Vendre des canards moiti!
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
7. They're softening him up....
so that he will trust them and spill his guts? :shrug:

BTW, this guy is one sick mofo.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
8. He was not under arrest on the flight if that's what you mean.
He was arrested once he hit U.S. soil.
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Seedersandleechers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Right answer!!!
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Correct
Thanks MrsGrumpy.
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thepurpose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Yes your right he was expelled, not extradited.
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peacebird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. why did we pay for first class or business class transport???
Edited on Mon Aug-21-06 06:46 PM by peacebird
:wtf:

or did HE pay for the flight?
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thepurpose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I'm sure he didn't pay for the flight, but we did pay for the HLS agent's
flight.
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. needed business class for security purposes
and no, he was not in custody, as I understand it, he was arrested as soon as the plane landed. He was kicked out of Thailand and must have agreed to go with US authorities.
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peacebird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. they couldn't have him secure in the cattle car? Why not?
Search him for weapons prior to boarding?

If that ain't enough - Handcuffs?

Come on - they were eating pate and sipping champagne.....

:wtf:
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. well, part of it is because we are not Nazis? n/t
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peacebird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. ? how is searching a man we are bringing on a plane being a nazi?
Talk was about need for "security" - so search the man to be certain he is not a threat to anyone else? If worried that he IS a threat - cuff him for the flight since he is being thrown out of the host country and our security personal are travelling with him....

HOW is that "nazi" of me?

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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. I believe airline regulations won't allow cuffing
In case of an emergency, everyone has an equal chance, especially someone who was over international waters and not under arrest.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #28
40. It is Nazi
Edited on Mon Aug-21-06 07:46 PM by LostinVA
He was a free person. US security personnel weren't legally traveling with him... they were legally merely other passengers. Why should someone not charged with any crime be cuffed for a flight? This guy certainly isn't a choir boy, but he still legally can't have that done to him. It's illegal.

He wasn't a prisoner, wasn't charged with any crime, no warrant was served, Thailand didn't arrest him -- they merely held him and revoked his visa. He couldn't afford the ticket home so they bought it and put him on a plane.
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peacebird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #40
56. why buy business/first class instead of regular coach class?
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #28
52. By cattle car you meant coach? I thought you meant where pets go...
with the luggage. My bad.

My guess is they didn't choose business without reason.
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peacebird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. goodness no- i was reacting to the cost of business/first class over coach
or "cattle car"

cattle car (coach) being the way I always travel - it costs thousands less than business or first class on trips across country and even more on trips overseas...
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #55
70. well, hence my reaction, my bad. n/t
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peacebird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #70
71. ahhh - no worries!
:hi:
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #25
39. Because he wasn't a prisoner?
You can't do that to people who aren't in custody.

Why shouldn't he eat pate and drink champagne? He was a FREE passenger on that flight -- not a prisoner.
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peacebird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #39
59. lost in va - sorry. until i read your later posts I was unaware Thailand
paid the airfare.

mea culpa....

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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. The SO heard it on the news this morning
I just asked her which news source... she THINKS it was NPR.

This whole media frenzy over someone who looks like he's not guilty of the crime is bonkers.
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peacebird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. agreed
but I wish DU could put this somewhere other than GD..... Sorry - being a cube rat is news limiting...

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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #25
67. Prisoners aren't handcuffed during flight
A prisoner is handcuffed to the flight, sat down, uncuffed, and recuffed after landing.

(Though I know Karr wasn't a prisoner at the time, but this is just general info to pass on)
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #16
36. The Thai government paid for the ticket
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meisje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
61. Didn't you see motherfucking Snakes On A Plane
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peacebird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. no......... why?
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thepurpose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
26. I guess that's why when we kidnap people and deliver them to other
countries for torture they aren't under arrest and flown first class.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. That wasn't what you asked.
:shrug: I don't get it. I answered your question.
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thepurpose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #30
49. Hey MrsGrumy. Your right you did answer my question. It just all of this
is so strange to me. We can rendition people when we want, but now we supposely got a real murder here and it does not make sense the way we are doing things in this case. From the MSM covering it wall to f**ing wall to the government seeming to treat this guy with kid gloves knowing all the time he might just be a flake. And remember there is a second part to my question. Why is Home Land Security involved. This is a state crime and has absolutely nothing to do with terrorist or protecting the United States from a threat.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #26
41. ???
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kymar57 Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
14. just a guess..
Edited on Mon Aug-21-06 06:46 PM by kymar57
Might it be that he was taken into custody and put on a plane to US but US officials could not arrest him until he arrived in country.Until he arrived here he was a free man. And no I could not give a shit about this latest MSM obsession.(on edit I just type to damn slow) :)
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Lost-in-FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
15. If this had happened under Clinton
"All Democrats would be Child Molesters" but NOOOOO... no ones says a word about it. The media complaints about it but are unwilling to "follow the money trail".
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SlipperySlope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
18. He wasn't under arrest.
Karr wasn't under arrest.

He was deported by Thailand as an undesirable. He was not extradited. In other words, the Thai officials put him on a Thai Airways flight headed for the US. The whole time he was on that flight, he was a "free man", just not one who was being allowed to stay in Thailand.

The moment he landed in California, and was on US soil, he was arrested.

Doing this the "right way", having Thailand arrest him, and hold him, and then have extradition proceedings to send him to the US, would have taken a long time. They way they did it was a lot faster, it just meant he got to enjoy one more meal before going to jail.


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thepurpose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. But what did Homeland security have to with it?
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Lost-in-FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Yeah.. but first class?
From Thailand??? $$$$$

I understand he was not under arrest but I think being on First Class was too much.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #24
38. Maybe he was flying stand-by, and that's all that was open
Even stand-by passengers, placed in first class get all the goodies.

The cattle car was probably full of reporters with cheap editors.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #24
45. It was Business Class, and the Thai government bought the ticket
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
43. Karr also would have to be charged with a crime to be extradited
And, no one is doing that. Per the Boulder DA: they are doing the investigation NOW. They didn't do ANY of it before. The Thai officials would probably have let him go if they hadn't deported him. They were playing Pontius Pilate and getting rid of a potential embarrassing situation. Now, it'll eb the American officials who look stupid.
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Mike03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #18
57. Appreciated
This is probably the most accurate legal answer. The only thing here that surpises me is that he was not officially or formally extradited, but I believe this post, since the Boulder Police Department is such a collection of incompetents that it would be natural for them to pretend they had extradited this man. They make the Three Stooges look like graduates of the Forensic Behavioralism program in Langley.
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
23. He was not under arrest.
He was not in fact in custody during flight to USA. Believe it or not.
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mcscajun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
29. Latest AP article describes his "hard landing"
Edited on Mon Aug-21-06 07:13 PM by mcscajun
Hard Landing for Ramsey Murder Suspect
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 7:42 p.m. ET

Wining and dining at 35,000 feet gave way Monday to a cramped jail cell, a metal cot and bologna sandwiches as John Mark Karr awaited a hearing to determine when he will be sent to Colorado to face charges in the slaying of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey.

Karr, who was brought back to the United States late Sunday night on a 15-hour business-class flight from Thailand, was immediately locked up in a high-security jail cell to await an extradition hearing Tuesday morning.

(snip)

His accommodations are a 6-by-9 cell with a bed, a toilet, no windows and no phones. Unlike in Thailand, Karr will not be made available for media interviews, officials said. Inmates are only given about three hours of exercise a week and eat all their meals in their cells.

(snip)

Monday's lunch, for example, included a bologna sandwich, carrots and an apple.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-JonBenet-Ramsey.h...
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
34. Because he wasn't under arrest
He was deported, not extradited, and was a free man until he landed at LAX.
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MazeRat7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
37. Inquiring minds want to know....Maybe they were trying to find out...
If he owned a Pit Bull..... ;)

MZr7
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Jeanette in FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
42. Why was Home Land Security there?
To provide the leak.

Home Land Security now has juristriction over Sex Crimes overseas.

In my opinion, Colorado probably would have liked this to be kept on the hush and hush. So HLS is now involved and little bits of the puzzle are allowed to come out. The media runs with the story, like they have been trained to do and we all talk about that.

Instead of:

The majority of American's think that 911 was an inside job.
Seymour Hersh's story of Israel, Britain and the US, Lebanon War.
The British Terror Plot, that is falling apart.
Americans throwing their shampoo and water away at airports.

And that was just last week.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
46. who cares?
:shrug:

:shrug:

:shrug:
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L A Woman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. If I posted "I don't care" under all the threads I don't care about...
it's all I would be doing.

But why bother?
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Mike03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #46
66. Individuals who don't care
about this case probably don't have too much curiosity about human nature, the human mind, or the failure of the judicial system. In the scheme of things, the JonBenet murder case is trivial, but the important aspect of it is that it has been treated as a game show instead of a homicide, so I care quite a bit about how it is handled by the incompetent media, and what citizens think about it, or if they know enough about it to even realize that the intruder theory of the crime is absurd.
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Mike03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
48. Many Talk Radio Hosts
Edited on Mon Aug-21-06 08:06 PM by Mike03
are speculating that they permitted him to drink in order to make him more loquatious, but I not only think that's untrue--it's probably idiotic if you think about it. This is already a delusional individual who has demonstrated his desire to speak too much, who has fired off incriminating emails to professors and held press conferences. In any event, they would never intoxicate a suspect in public, in a plane filled with reporters in any event, and he did not speak nor was he encouraged to speak.

More likely, extradition treaties/regulations mandate that passengers not charged with crimes be allowed to eat and drink just as other passengers eat and drink. Secondly, the Boulder Police Department has now and finally proven its incompetence, so there's no telling what is permissible if they are in charge. It's patently obvious that FBI profilers have not been invited to participate in the evaluation of this suspect, or else we would not even be focusing a moment's attention on this worthless but amusing clown.

There's something else going on here. Who doesn't want a free ride out of a Thai prison and a good meal? (Sarcasm) Kar probably did not want to do time in a Thailand prison, and the US probably wanted to claim they had removed an obsessive pedophile off the streets. But this guy is a clown who most likely had nothing to do with this killing.

This guy is ridiculous, and so is the attention being paid to him by the MSM.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
60. Maybe to give the "NEWZ" channels more meaningless shit to blather
Edited on Mon Aug-21-06 08:23 PM by impeachdubya
about, instead of covering an actual story.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
62. It's because HE DIDN"T DO IT and they know already...
The whole story is an absolute joke. Karr will plead insanity in the end and sneak off... his "story" is already falling apart...
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #62
69. Yep.
Edited on Mon Aug-21-06 08:43 PM by BuyingThyme
They may get him on some kind of internet kiddie porn deal. But he obviously had nothing to do with Ramsey (or Klaas).

Or maybe he just wanted a free international flight.
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