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madmunchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:50 AM
Original message
Interesting conversation with my Pub girlfriend's brother
First off, my girlfriend's view of W is no longer favorable.

Her older brother "1st" stated that he "hated" Democrats, I asked how could he. He then went on to condemn Bush for just about everything, then he talked about how unfair Gingrich was to Clinton. He said that Clinton was amoral, but that the Pubs shouldn't have pursued what was a private matter. He stated that the press should have ignored Clinton's inddiscretion, just as they always had in the past. He also said going into Iraq was wrong and that Cheney was against it. I was so flabbergasted that he actually thought that Cheney was against going into Iraq, yet I couldn't think of any specific examples on why he was wrong. I mentioned that when Bush 1 was in office that Cheney wanted to go to Baghdad to get Saddam way back in 91', and that Rumsfield Wolf and Cheney contacted Clinton in 98 to go into Iraq after Saddam. He acknowledged Wolf, and Rumsfield but said not Cheney.

He said that he agreed with about 50% of what I said. He didn't agree with my reasons for Bush going into Iraq, which were, domination of the ME, control of the water and oil in Iraq, And the black hole created for this administration to make lots of money disappear. While they make their defense contracting friends rich, they also have made billions disappear. He didn't agree with the money part. I told him that Rumsfield, Cheney, Wolf...all basically pulled W's strings because W didn't know anything about Foreign policy. I think that he wasn't to convinced on that either.

He agreed that a Dem would be the next President. He thinks that Hillary is corrupt with the way that she made money investments. His friends on the Board of Trade say that it was impossible to make the money that she did in that way. He said that he didn't think that the big dog was corrupt.

I told him that I had a feeling the Hillary would be the next VP, he thought that was possible to.

Some Repubs are Repubs in name only. To me, he is more of a Dem light, than he knows. I have his e-mail, if I could find some articles or info on Cheney wanting to go into Iraq I will send them to him. He said that Cheney and Powell were against going into Iraq? I know that Powell wasn't wanting to go in, but Cheney is as big a hawk as they come.

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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hmmm,,, DR-ino.
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abluelady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. Having "Real" Conversations Is the Key
I get too emotional and I can't have those conversations, but if you can get a Repuke to sit down and talk reasonably, you generally will find that they don't want what the Bushies want or the neocons. It is imperative that we make them see that their Republican party is no longer viable. If we can convince them that their taxes are going to go way sky high without a balanced budget, we are 3/4's of the way there, imho.

I don't know how to solve the racist problem, which is a huge one. There are a core of Repukes who will never change their mind about that. :>/
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madmunchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Believe me, I get too emotional to. Especially when I hear about
about 100 buzz words, like "Clinton is amoral", Why don't the Iraq's appreciate what we are trying to do for them... really anything that supports Bush's positions set me off.
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madmunchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Another thing he said was that Gore was unbalanced and
that he showed that after the 2000 election. I asked how was it unbalanced for a man to go to a college and teach? Just because he gained weight and grew a beard????? I then asked how was "Bush" balanced when he was a drunk and drug user to his 40's. To which J said, "oh, he wasn't a drug addict, I said "remember "I didn't inhale" about pot? Bush was doing coke! Remember what the Pubs said about that????, yet Bush is doing coke and is a drunk?"
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abluelady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Amoral is an interesting word, isn't it?
Where are morals when it comes to poverty, lack of health care, poor education. That is wehre the conversation has to be. These people need to truly "understand" what the words they spew mean. Good luck to both of us. :> ;)
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TlalocW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
3. Actually
Cheney is quoted in 91 as agreeing with Bush I that to try and take Bahgdad wouldn't have been worth it in terms of money, lost life, and nation-building.

TlalocW
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madmunchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Was Cheney against Bush II going into Iraq?
I thought that he was one of the Neocons behind it? Was I wrong?
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Cheney was a driving force behind bush II going into Iraq. n/t
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madmunchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Do you have anything that I could show him that could prove that?
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Do you know about Google? It's a free service/web site where you can
enter key words and it does a search of the web for sites that contain content that match the words. It's invaluable for doing research. Sometimes it helps to be tenacious and alter your word choice. I just went there and entered the key words. "Cheney" "Iraq" "war "run up" (without the quotes) and the second listing that popped up had an article that discussed Cheney's role in pushing to invade Iraq. Google is your friend!


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/15/60minutes/mai...


In his book, Woodward describes Cheney as a "powerful, steamrolling force obsessed with Saddam and taking him out."

"Colin Powell, the secretary of state, saw this in Cheney to such an extent, he, Powell, told colleagues that Cheney has a fever. It is an absolute fever. Its almost as if nothing else exists, says Woodward, who adds that Cheney had plenty of opportunities to convince the president.

Hes just down the hall in the West Wing from the president. President says, I meet with him all the time. Cheney's back in the corner or sitting on the couch at nearly all of these meetings.

The president had hoped Saddam could be removed in some way short of war. But early in 2002, Woodward reports, the CIA concluded they could not overthrow Saddam. That word came from the CIA's head of Iraq operations, a man known simply as Saul.

"Saul gets together a briefing and who does he give it to first? Dick Cheney. He said, I can count the number of sources, human sources, spies we have in Iraq on one hand, says Woodward. I asked the president, What was your reaction that the CIA couldn't overthrow Saddam? And the president said one word. 'Darn.'"
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Hav Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
4. .
Wasn't t a Kennedy who just recently said that many Republicans would vote for the Democrats if they really knew about the issues and positions the Democrats stand for?
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
5. What A Misinformed Dimwit
God dam, where's the problem. The asswipe is dead wrong on the basis of almost every assertion he made. Have at his ass. Do it nice or do it hard, but that idiot needs to be educated.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
8. He sounds like he has spent a lot of time considering
the wrong information. What a shame. But how can anyone with a brain not see Bush's actions as heinous compared to anything Bill or Hillary Clinton did at their very worst. Perhaps they have both been dishonest but if there is any kind of moral scale in the universe, their sins are petty compared to the horrors of this administration.

He believes the opposite of the truth about Cheney- who was said to have asked for all the info on Iraq as soon as he took office. Didn't give a shit about America, still doesn't.
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madmunchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. That is what I am trying to find. Info to send him showing that
Cheney was behind going into Iraq. I think that he might be shown the light once some "other" type of info starts being presented to him.
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
13. Ask him to ask his "friends at the Board of Trade" if it was legal and
possible for, I think, Al D'Amato (some Repuke New York Senator) to make $32500 in one hour off a $500 investment that is done breaking the rules that the company set forth, that you had to invest at least $15,000 or they won't even fart in your general direction?
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LunaC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
14. send him this
the link in my sig line lays out the PNAC's long-time quest for Iraq and Cheney is a PNAC driving force.

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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
17. interesting that he is only talking about personalities
and not policies.

Does he have opinions on the policies - tax cuts for the wealthy, social security 'reform', 'staying the course'. Whatever I think about Clinton or Bush as people, I generally prefer Clinton's policies as being better for the country, and the world.
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
18. Speaking of "amoral" and "corrupt"
Let's remind people that Dear Saint Ron got to be a multimillionaire by a few shady deals too:

***
At the end of Reagan's fifth term, he began to have serious financial problems, particularly with the IRS. In response, MCA negotiated a deal with the Last Frontier Hotel in Las Vegas--which was then operated by Chicago mobsters--for Reagan to host a song-and-dance show for two weeks and to receive enough money to cover his back tax debt. When Reagan returned to Hollywood, MCA, through its newly formed Revue Productions, hired him to host its flagship television program, The General Electric Theater for $125,000 a year. He was paid additional fees when he produced episodes for the series.

Despite his status as a television producer, Reagan remained on SAG's board in another violation of the guild's bylaws, which prohibited producers from holding office in SAG. In 1959, when Reagan ran for an unprecedented sixth term as SAG's president, his opponents raised the bylaws issue. Publicly, Reagan denied that he had ever produced The General Electric Theater--a flat-out lie.
***
On December 13, 1966, the month after Reagan was elected governor of California, Schreiber and Stein, along with Reagan's personal attorney, William French Smith (who later became Reagans attorney general), sold 236 of Reagan's 290 acres in Malibu Canyon to Twentieth Century-Fox. The purchase price was $1.93 million, or $8,178 an acreeven though Fox's experts had appraised the land at only $944,000, or $4,000 an acre.
***
Full article:
http://www.moldea.com/ReaganRedux.html
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