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My Repub Father now says he is Libertarian?

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Buddyblazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:01 AM
Original message
My Repub Father now says he is Libertarian?
My Father. 20 years in the Army. 2 tours of Vietnam.

This is a man who knows indoctrination. He just doesn't know it.

We argue politics all the time. Literally everyday. When ever we hear good news for our prospective parties, we immediately call each other. Ya know...to gloat. Like a football game where two members from the same family are fans of two different teams...that just happen to be playing each other in the big game. But no matter how heated it gets (and boy can it get heated), we end each conversation with I love you.


This last week, I called him after the decision about wireless tapping. We had quite an exchange. He was upset that so many people where piling on Bush. I told him, "They didn't always do that Dad. They gave him a free pass for several years. But how can you blame them? SNAFU after SNAFU (hit him with that military language) and of course they're going to start piling on."

In the middle of our conversation, when he had gotten all worked up, I reassured him, "Don't worry Dad...nothing's going to happen the them. Your party's got all the power. This will disappear. It probably won't even make the history books."

I don't know what happened but he immediately shut up and a silence ensued. It may have been only 5 seconds...but it seemed much longer. I could've swore I heard that canned TV sound where the spring pops...SPROING-OING-OING!


"Well I'm a Libertarian son. You know that."


"WHAT? When did you become a "libertarian"? You weren't yesterday. Or the day before. I KNOW. CAUSE WE TALK EVERYDAY DAD!"

"You knew that I believe in traditional Republican views."


Well, I saw that someone on here the other day state that they thought that when a Republican says that they are a Libertarian, it's the last "hidey hole" (as they put it) for a disenchanted Republican.

Do you think that they were accurate and my Pops may be slowly (glacier speed...like from a 100 years ago though ;) ) coming around?
I plan on our next conversation pointing this fact out to him. He used to proudly state he was a republican now he wanted to make sure I knew he was a Libertarian.


What are your thoughts? Do you think this could be my Pop starting to think things through (he has his Phd...smart man) and this is the first stages of him coming to grips with the fact that he fell lockstep in with an unworthy administration?
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. It's like this. It's inconvenient to be Republican right now.
Republicans in 2000; "Im a 110% Republican". Republicans now; "I'm a Libertarian".

Joe Lieberman in 2000; "I'm a true-blue Democrat". Joe Lieberman now; "I'm an Independent".

Get my drift?
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. republican mid 2008: "I never liked bush, we need a REAL pub
Edited on Mon Aug-21-06 09:26 AM by bluerum
in the WH to clean up his droppings."

Same shit, different election cycle.
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n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. I hate to say it but probably not
I have a bad feeling that when 08 rolls around these folks will fall right back in line.
The story will be: "Things will be different this time" "We are electing a real republican this time" "Bush was too stupid, we are running a smart one this time" and the ever popular "If you vote for the Democratic candidate they will take all your money away, make your wife/daughter turn lezbian, Make your son turn Gay and become a terrorist, dismantle our military and give the weapons to OBL, blah, blah, blah..."
And the Sheep will faithfully vote for the Repukes again.
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. yeah, the cynic in me agrees with you
which is why I have noticed two newish memes among the right wingers I know:

1 - throw all of them out. A lot of them have been saying they won't vote for ANY incumbent, which is a total weasel way out, imo. They won't admit they were wrong, or that they got fooled, and now just blame everyone in Washington (which is not really a new meme with them if you think about it).

2 - Now a lot of folks are claiming Bush is a Liberal, not really a good Republican at all. This is not only shirking their responsibility, but is shocking in the removal from reality. This way they can renounce Bush and his cabinet and still vote R with a "clean conscience" until they get screwed again, of course - then it's Big Government's fault. Again.

It would not surprise me if both or either of these have been parroted by Rushanniteilly, but I really don't know. But I laugh at the blatant hypocrisy of simultaneously being all about personal responsibility and being self-made yet being unable to simply say "oops, my bad. I totally got fooled." I know it's not easy to do, but it sure does help us learn and move on.
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. geez, can the dems really do that? Turn me gay I mean.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. i dont think they will vote. i saw a phenomenon in 2004 with repugs
in my area. there was like a shock. prior i saw my repugs NOT talk election or bush and when i would say something, they literally hung head. after election, immediately i did not feel joy or celebration for bush win. literally i felt a shock. how the fuck did he win. you dems were suppose to pull it out. for real

felt like they werent going to vote or root for kerry, but they really wanted bushco to lose. quiet support.

one of the reasons i dont believe bush had the votes and stole. just one of the reasons

i dont think many are going to be voting the next two elections. they may not vote democrat, but i dont think they will vote repug either
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mikeytherat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
3. A lifelong, Bush-lovin' repub that is suddenly a "libertarian" is really
Edited on Mon Aug-21-06 09:12 AM by mikeytherat
nothing more than a Republican too chickenshit to admit he's a Republican.

I have several friends in this category, and I've called each one of them a chickenshit. They couldn't love Bush enough in 2000 and 2004; now they act like they've never heard of the guy.

mikey_the_rat
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
4. "Libertarianism is the last hidey hole for disenchanted Republicans."
That's almost a true statement, but it's not the last hidey hole. I'm guessing that I'm close to your dad's age, and I'm about 20 years ahead of him on the disenchanted Republican Slide. Nixon followed by Ford followed by Reagan pushed me into the Libertarian realm for about 10 years. I came to realize that true, hard core Libertarians generally are insane, so I kept looking.

Hell, I don't know where I'll end up politically. Right now, I'm an avid environmentalist who finds a home with the Democrats. A couple more DU threads about what bastards the Greens are, and I'll be a Green.

:shrug:
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
5. hard to say
on the one hand, there's my dad - once a hard-core Republican (but not a NeoCon) and now a hard-core Libertarian (the kind who actually goes to their conventions and thinks all taxes should be voluntary, etc.) I disagree with him on a lot, but I will say he at least is consistent and hates the current Republican party and will never vote for them. I don't think he'd ever vote Dem though because he's still convinced they are "socialists" - a dirty word in his world. I may be able to convince him to at least thrown out the current NeoCon lizards, but not sure.

then there's my friend who is a lock-step NeoCon, who almost never agrees with the things I bring up (he even denies that the warentless wiretapping was wrong or illegal!) yet calls himself a Libertarian.

My thing with Libertarianism - I am all for personal freedoms and in some ways consider myself a social libertarian (small "l") but don't agree with the idea that businesses will regulate themselves in a truly free market, and I think history will strongly agree with me.



Libertarians = Anarchy for rich people (just a semi-joke)
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
6. rush listenin, fox news watchin, lifetime rw brother is libertarian
Edited on Mon Aug-21-06 09:17 AM by seabeyond
last conversation i had with him, he declared himself a libertarian. i have never heard the words out of his mouth in the past. i stopped talking politics with him cause he has been so pathetic. never could stay with subject at hand, because the things i talked about bush with him, i know are things that outrage him. he would always take conversation to what some democrat did. i stopped talking politics. he kept bringing it up. last time, he declared himself libertarian.

i laughed and laughed, and laughed again. i told him, amazing how all these lifetime republicans are all of a sudden declaring themselves libertarian.

whatever

he hasnt talked politics since
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. the other day my repug father was outraged when i called him a
capitalist. a lifetime business man. i didnt know it was an insult. he was offended. huh i say. bah hahahhahahha. i take it he isnt agreeing with the corporations behaviors of late. he has always been boss for some huge org. he is a fair, just and honest boss. important to look in the mirror while he is shaving. i have always respected him as a boss.

and go figure. he isnt a capitalist.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. my midland texas, nra carhholdin, lifetime repug hubby
Edited on Mon Aug-21-06 09:24 AM by seabeyond
went to kerry after bush went into iraq. he waas so bothered by the decision to invade iraq that he decided to vote kerry. the handling of katrina disgusted him so much and outraged him so much he became independent.

a couple days ago he was showing me an org he like that feed the hungry and wants me to put it on this board. spent time fixing their computer system and learned a lot about the org. such a soft heart i say to him. i saw him bristle cause males arent suppose to be. hey i say, i saw what katrina did to you. (he used his company, money and advt to gather stuff immediately after the hurricane). he told me, watching that is what cut the ties with the republican party. and just walked off. i let it drop
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
7. It's like saying "i'm a person"; near meaningless -
unless it is specified whether it's RW libertarian or LW libertarian.
Though in this case it isn't hard to guess.
Not to mention that RW libertarian is just another word for the same thing: free market fundamentalist capitalist hard-line RW-er.

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personman Donating Member (959 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
10. Right wing libertarianism...ugh.
or anarcho-capitalism. People who want to abolish the government but maintain our economic classes, effectively giving the power the government had to the elite capitalists. You could probably call it "Fascism Plus". True anarchists oppose coercive authority, not JUST government authority.
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. exactly!
Liebertarianism is anarchy for the upper class.

What kills me is that none of the hardcore RW Libertarians I know have "pulled themselves up by their own boot straps" - they don't truly ive the myth they see themselves embodying. All of them have had a variety of help, from family help to outright governmental help! What a bunch of crap!
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MazeRat7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
15. Ah, hell dont feel bad... Mom now says she is an "independent"....
This from the same lady that told me chimp was one of the greatest pResidents of our time... of course that was about a year ago...

The progression has been fun and I have heard all the excuses... the liberal media, I have nothing to hide, etc...etc.

This weekend while we are chatting on the phone, she let it slip out that she was an independent not a republican.

I'm still laughing... she's not.

MZr7
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
16. yes
it's a face-saving hidey hole, but at least an improvement over being a hardcore * supporter.

Ask him what being a Libertarian means. Could be an interesting conversation.

Sometimes you have to let the losing team save some of their face. Hard for people to admit they've been hijacked by aliens. But it's clear a sacred bond of trust has been broken. This might not be Hugh but it's big. As others have cautioned, I wouldn't expect miracles. But it is something of a concession.

Gosh those Libertarians better get ready for a tidal wave of support for their candidates! ;-)
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
17. Out of the pot, and into the fire.
Edited on Mon Aug-21-06 09:32 AM by The Backlash Cometh
We have been suffering under Libertarian principles since the Republican controlled congress overrode Clinton's veto in 1995 or 1996. The Congress, including Lieberman, voted to take away stockholder's rights to sue a CEO over bad decisions.

Your dad is just running to the next "hip" word. Anything but "Liberal."
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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
18. Ya know.. thsi really isn't surprising..
My family of staunch republicans are slowley moving libertatrian.

Bush has managed to piss off alot of republicans.
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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
19. I'm hearing this a lot these days...
Every single one of these people voted for Bush, now they're suddenly Libertarians... :eyes:
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Rosco T. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
21. "Libertarians are Republicans that smoke pot"...
.. quote from Thom Hartmann
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liberaldemocrat7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. "Libertarians are Republicans that smoke pot and have extramarital sex.
The REPUBLIKLAN Party has two right wings.


The religiosos that persecute people based upon sexuality and want to expand government to enforce their religious persecution.


The economic irresponsibles who give capitalism a bad reputation with their enabling of irresponsible capitalism and limiting of government so it will not regulate companies nor take care of people in emergencies.


The religiosos do not ever attain the presidency. They sit and hope that their economic irresponsible capitalist will throw them a bone so they can live comfortably that the government persecutes some other people so they can enjoy life. None of these people do I consider a christian in my view. They do not follow the teachings of christ as they support what the economic irresponsibles do. But whoa to the economic irresponsibles if they do not pander to these nutty religiosos.

The economic irresponsibles make up people like George Herbert Hoover Bush, which by the way appears a model president by Report Georgette Geyer of PBS and her newspaper. The chimp falls into this category but he also throws plenty of encouragement to the nutty religiosos in his sad REPUBLIKLAN Party. Ronald O'Reagano did similarly and not only did he encourage the religiosos but the klan members of his party as well. O'Reagano began his presidential campaign where the klan held power in the South.

The Republican party appears like one big KLAN meeting and a John Birch socieety meeting combined. You get plenty of hate for certain americans not in their white wealthy class and they delude white middle class freepers with the promise they can enter the elite levels of their party and social structure even when right now these people sit at home watching tv in ripped t shirts and watch nascar and world wide wrestling entertainment on tv and give their vote to the GOP because they hate Liberals and poor people.

So what if a person swhitches from "Republican" to "libertarian" as both types do not care about the poor, the elderly, the disabled, the unemployed, the union worker, minorities. These people voted for Nixon in the 60's and Reagan in the 80's. They appear deluded into voting Republican.


At least the libertarians get to screw all the women they want, get all the adult toys that they want and can afford, and to poke smot that they want.



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