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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:15 AM
Original message
Scoop/Autorank - Zogby Poll On Electronic Voting Attitudes (Full Results)
Edited on Mon Aug-21-06 06:16 AM by althecat
Land Shark and I ask that you spread
this wide and far, on as many lists as
you're willing. Thanks, autorank & Land Shark

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0608/S00220.htm

New Zogby Poll: It's Nearly Unanimous


Voters Insist on Right to Observe Vote Counting
Plus other findings from this unique poll

Michael Collins
"Scoop" Independent Media
Part I of a II part series.
Washington, DC


A recent Zogby poll documents ground breaking information on the attitudes of American voters toward electronic voting. They are quite clear in the belief that the outcome of an entire election can be changed due to flaws in computerized voting machines. At a stunning rate of 92%, Americans insist on the right to watch their votes being counted. And, at an overwhelming 80%, they strongly object to the use of secret computer software to tabulate votes without citizen access to that software.

The American public is clear in its desire for free, fair, and transparent elections. An 80%-90% consensus on the right to view vote counting and opposition to secrecy by voting machine vendor is both rare and remarkable in American politics. If only the public knew that these options are virtually non existent in today's election system.

Viewing vote counting will soon become a process of watching computers, somewhat akin to watching the radio, but without sound. Secret vote counting with computer software that citizens cannot review is now a fait accompli. Most contracts between boards of elections and voting equipment manufacturers bar both elections officials and members of the public from any access to the most important computer software; the source code that directs all the functions of the voting machines, including vote counting.

As a result of the 2002 Help America Vote Act (HAVA), a majority of these voters will be using touch screen voting machines with a lesser amount using special paper ballots counted by optical scanning devices. There are very few localities using paper ballots for the November 2006 election. If the federal government gets its way, they will be a thing of the past.

The supreme irony is that HAVA was sold to Congress as the solution to the problems of the Florida 2000 election. Of course, we now know thatas many as 50,000 black Floridians were wrongly removed from the voting rolls through a highly suspect "felon purge" that missed felons but captured legitimate registered voters. And we know further that over 100,000 ballots in mostly black precincts were disqualified due to the old voter suppression standby, "spoiled ballots." Neither of those voting rights and civil rights problems is addressed by HAVA. It's all about "the machines."

A Zogby Poll was commissioned and sponsored by election rights and business law attorney Paul Lehto of Everett. Washington. This author, Michael Collins, Editor, www.electionfraudnews.com was a contributing sponsor. It consisted of 1018 interviews over a five day period beginning August 11, 2006. For further details, please see the "Appendix" at the end of this article.

This article focuses on three key questions from the survey. The responses reveal public attitudes as they were measured very recently. The outcome should give policy makers and bureaucrats serious pause for reflection upon just exactly what they have done to America's system of elections and just how far from public beliefs they have strayed.

Voters Aware of Risks of Electronic Voting - Changing an Entire Election

How aware are you that there have been reports of flaws in electronic voting or computerized voting machines that make it possible to tamper with one machine in such a way as to change the results of an entire election?

Very aware - 28.5%
Somewhat aware - 31.8
Somewhat unaware - 14.9
Very unaware - 22.8
Not sure - 1.9
Aware - 60.3%
Unaware - 37.7

The response shows a wide spread awareness of the potential for flawed voting machines to overturn an entire election. This is highly significant since the change in election outcome represents a violation of the expressed will of the people. Elections using touch screens computers or optical scan tabulators would seem to present entry level doubt concerning any election, particularly the type of nail biters that are common in America over the past few years.

All subgroups were near or exceeded 50% or greater in awareness (very, somewhat) of the risks of electronic voting.

The breakdown politically is instructive. Combining the "very" and somewhat aware responses shows a near parity by political identification: Democrats 59.9%; Republicans 58.3%; and Independents, the highest at 63.8% awareness. Dividing the sample by political ideology shows Libertarians with the highest level of awareness concerning the risks of computerized voting, 81%, and Moderates with the lowest at 55.9%. Of interest, Liberals and those describing themselves as Very Conservative were nearly identical in their awareness at 62.7% and 61% respectively.

Near Universal Demand to See the Votes Counted

In some states, members of the public have the right to view the counting of votes and verify how that process is working. In other states, citizens are in effect barred from viewing vote counting even if they would like to view the process. Which of the following two statements are you more likely to agree with - A or B?

Statement A: Citizens have the right to view and obtain
information about how election officials count votes. - 91.8%
Statement B: Citizens do not have the right to view and
obtain information about how elections officials count votes. - 5.9

Neither/Not sure - 2.3


Most all likely voters (92%) agree that citizens have the right to view and obtain information about how election officials' count votes (Statement A). Just 6% feel citizens do not have this right (Statement B).

Four fifths of respondents within every demographic group selected the right for citizen review and access, Statement A. This includes overwhelming majorities of both Kerry (92.8%) and Bush supporters (90.8%); independents (96.9%); Catholics (92.8%), Protestants (90.8%), Jews (87.2%), and those with no religious affiliation (93.3%); and two points above the average, NASCAR fans, 93.9%.

If and when citizens begin demanding this widely assumed option, they will be gravely disappointed. Viewing vote counting in the era of electronic voting means something different than it did in the days of paper ballots. In the case of touch screen devices, the vote count consists of poll workers or technicians taking data tapes out of a computerized touch screen device. With optical scan ballots and voting machines, tabulation (vote counting) involves pressing a button for a total count after the special paper ballots have been scanned through the computerized scanning device.

The process of removing public review of voting and vote counting began in earnest with the 2002 Help America Vote Act. In a previous article with Paul Lehto, the clear intent to herd local and state governments into the seemingly happy pasture of touch screen voting devices is described in depth. In essence, the three step process of forcing locals to accept touch screen devices, stripping voters and government agencies of their rights to review and understand voting, and locking that system in place for the indefinite future is nearly complete.

The 2006 election represents the brave new world of electronic voting. The American people want something entirely different: free, fair, and transparent elections with full citizen participation and review. The following questions and responses provide convincing evidence to support that claim.

Voters Opposed to Secret Software to Count Votes

With computerized electronic voting machines, votes are counted using proprietary or confidential software from corporate vendors that is not disclosed to citizens. Do you agree or disagree that it is acceptable for votes to be counted in secret without any outside observers from the public?

Agree - 13.7%
Disagree - 79.8

Not sure - 6.5

There is overwhelming objection to vendor specific secret software used to count votes outside the purview of public observation. This is a sentiment shared by no less than 70% of the people in any sub-group in the survey. This includes every political party; political ideology; race, religion; age group; educational level; and income group. This included 85.5% of rural residents and 79.8% of NASCAR fans.

Once again, the public is in for a profound disappointment. Nearly every state and county board of elections has a contract with the voting machine vendors that prohibit access to and review of voting machine "source code," the software that controls all of the key functions of vote counting. These contracts are freely entered into by government officials and in place for a period of months or years. Even with full access to source code, the level of expertise and manpower necessary to police malicious acts, which we know can occur, makes such disclosure a Pyrrhic victory; a distraction from the return to real ballots, counted by real people, open to full supervision and inquiry.

The Publics Right to Know and Their Right to Know What They Don't Know

The Zogby Poll makes it clear that the public insists on the right to view vote counting. At 92% agreement with Statement A above, the public clearly thinks that it should have this option. There is also strong agreement that computerized voting should be transparent; that secret software, meaning secret vote counting is totally unacceptable.

What will people think and do when they find out that these rights are (a) not granted universally either in law or by custom and (b) that even if they are granted, they are virtually unobtainable due to the nature of computerized voting. Invisible ballots cannot be observed by voters. Computer software calculations cannot be observed by voters. Inquiring about and receiving information on these invisible processes requires an act of faith of epic proportions. Voters are expected to believe summary data and tables from election officials who routinely deny and/or discourage access to vote counting and who sign contracts with private vendors like Diebold, Sequoia, and ES&S, that surrender the right of officials or the public to inspect the most important software in the voting machines, the source code.

There has been a virtual media blackout on in depth coverage of these issues by the national corporate media. The work of Lou Dobbs and Catherine Crier are notable and powerful exceptions. Lou Dobbs' coverage includes online polls that consistently show 80% and greater preference for a complete dismissal of voting machines and a return to paper ballots.

The public has the right to observe the entire election process. It's called transparency. The public has a right to get information on how that process works in order to satisfy the requirement for free and fair elections. These rights are unavailable and the public does not even know it. If and when these issues are covered by the broader media with insight and attention, there may very well be the type of outrage at the loss of our liberties that we have seen from Lou Dobbs and Catherine Crier. That would be a most unpleasant event for those who have bargained away voting rights for the sake of a free Federal grant to buy voting machines people inherently distrust.

***END***


Copyright. Permission to reproduce in whole or part with attribution to the author, Michael Collins, a link to "Scoop," and attribution of polling results to Zogby International.

Michael Collins is a writer who focuses on clean elections and voting rights. He is the editor of the election fraud web site, www.ElectionFraudNews.com . He has written articles on a number of topics for "Scoop" Independent News including: The Disenfranchisement of Katrina's Survivors;www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0507/S00238.htm |The Unanswered Question: Who Really Won In 2004?; Secret Vote Counting, a scathing critique of HAVA; and Kennedy's Challenge, a detailed response to Salon's attack on the Robert F. Kennedy Jr. article on stolen election 2004. Special thanks to Stella Black for editorial assistance; Paul Lehto for very helpful suggestions; and acknowledgement and thanks to the Zogby professional (R) who did such an outstanding job summarizing complex data.
MichaelCollins@electionfraudnews.com

***APPENDIX***


The Zogby poll was conducted from August 11 through 15, 2006. 1018 adult voters were interviewed by phone. The sample of people interviewed reflects the demographic and regional diversity of the United States. Due to the size, it has a 3.1 % (+/-) margin of error. 95% of Zogby's political polls have come within a 1% margin of accuracy in predicting election outcome. The survey was commissioned and sponsored by election rights and business law attorney Paul Lehto of Everett Washington. This author, Michael Collins, Editor, www.electionfraudnews.com was a contributing sponsor.

Voters were asked what type of voting machines they used to cast their votes. All but 4% knew the answer to this question. A plurality said that they use touch screens, 32%. Optical scanning devices for special paper ballots were used by 18% of voters and the same percent used "plain" paper ballots. Lever machines were used by 14% of voters with punch cards representing 12% of the sample.



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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. Great article. The government will yawn and scratch its nards.
The government doesn't have much of an incentive to fix this "problem" because it is one which benefits THEM, 100%. It is like their obscene pay and health care systems. They could make it fair, cheaper, something Americans shared and could accept -- but why would they? It's a hell of perc.

Same for owning the vote counting equipment! They're far more like to fix the way they REPORT the counted votes, or pass legislation saying "we promise we'll count better," but they have no reason to want to fix it.
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I don't even know how to respond.
You're correct of course and therein lies the rub! Our fellow Citizens are complacent or comatose, the jury remains out, the press complicit, the time for some sort of civil disobedience draws closer. If we could only think of something that would get their attention. We are so absolutely powerless, it is maddening!
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. In doing this, they are out of touch with at least 92% of the public
plus another 3% is undecided and some additional portion of the 8% not included in the 92% supporting election transparency misinterpreted the question or just "guessed" and guessed wrong. One person in another thread thought she should answer in the minority because she doesn't believe that a "right" to watch the vote counting exists in her state therefore she'd logically have to say that the "correct" answer is the second one, with only a few percent agreement rate.

But anyway, this is as close to unanimous as you can get in conditions of free debate, and if you feel powerless then you need to frame the goverment's actions in juxtaposition to the most powerful statements on behalf of the people/public that you can. That would be anti-secret vote counting and pro-transparency and pro-right to know about vote counting.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Mexico
I love your use of the term "complicit" ... it pops up whenever I write a sentence about CM, maybe we need a new term "Complicit Corporate Media"...

Mexico Mexico Mexico People can stand up, resist, say enough of the lies and manipulation.

They're doing what they do at the risk to their lives. I'm totally impressed and I'M FIRMLY CONVINCED THAT IT IS "OUR STRUGGLE" - the Mexican people and the American people. After all, it's the likely WH meddling that probably made the difference down there.

We need to watch them and then work it out for ourselves here.

I share your frustration but, what the heck. As the the Subway Supervisor said after hearing that a train was hijacked (70's): "What did they expect for their 35 cents, to live forever." (That's from "The Taking of Pelham 123"). Mundan source but it puts things in perspective.

Please remember, this can be reproduced as much as you want: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0608/S00220.htm

Only request is author attribution and a link to Scoop


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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:42 AM
Response to Original message
2. Superb reporting.
When the gag order is lifted on RFK Jr's litigation, he has guaranteed a media blitz and claims we may see results before the midterms (interview on Air America).

Knowledge is power.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Hey there;) Knowledge is power...so is the ballot box -as in real ballots
We'll wake a few people up with this.

:hi:
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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. Terrific article . Thanks for posting
K&R
:kick:
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. Thank you and thans for your great pic essays from Mexico.
They are amazing and offer a glimpse that the CCM (complicit corporate media) fails to offer.

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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
6. KnR n/t
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
7. Thanks for this post. K&R.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
8. Thank God The Muricans Are Finally Waking Up
And thanks also for the people who have been working so hard and long to bring this to light and set it right.

*shadow government*
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
9. *NOT* COMATOSE! POWERLESS, DEMORALIZED, *DISENFRANCHISED*!!!!!!!
This fantastic poll shows that the American people are far better informed than anyone gives them credit for! They are not stupid! They are not "sheeple"! They are not brain dead! We actually should have known that from the polls on Bush and the War (and issue polls over the last several years). But some DUers and leftists love to bash the American people. That's easier than figuring out what's really going on. Against all odds, and in spite of a near total BLACK HOLE IN THE CORPORATE NEWS MONOPOLY PRESS, the American people HAVE FIGURED THIS ONE OUT, but, clearly, a) they DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT, and b) they FEEL POWERLESS TO STOP IT.

They have never before experienced A FASCIST COUP!

Electronic voting run on SECRET CODE, owned and controlled by Bushite corporations, is nothing less. That's one thing this poll didn't ask. How do you feel about the following parties counting all the votes under a veil of CORPORATE SECRECY?

DIEBOLD: Until recently, headed by Wally O'Dell, a Bush-Cheney campaign chair and major fundraiser (a Bush "Pioneer," right up there with Ken Lay), who promised in writing to "deliver Ohio's electoral votes to Bush-Cheney in 2004"; and

ES&S: A spinoff of Diebold (similar computer architecture), initially funded by rightwing billionaire Howard Ahmanson, who also gave one million dollars to the extremist 'christian' Chalcedon Foundation (which touts the death penalty for homosexuals, among other things). Diebold and ES&S have an incestuous relationship; they are run by two brothers, Bob and Todd Urosevich.

SEQUOIA: The third big election theft player, which employs Republican Bill Jones, former CA Sec of State, and his chief aide Alfie Charles, to peddle their secretly programmed voting machines--in the highly corrupt practice of "revolving door" employment.

-----------------------------------

It was deliberate. It included the collusion of some Democratic Party leaders. Its purpose was to shove a Mideast war down the throats of the American people--a war that the majority have not wanted since way back before the invasion of Iraq (56% opposed--Feb. '03). Opposition to this corporate oil war and its perp, Bush, is now up in the 70% range. EIGHTY-FOUR PERCENT (in a recent poll) oppose any U.S. participation in a widened Mideast war, yet that's what the Bush Cartel is heading us straight toward, with much of the Democratic Party leadership applauding the Bushites' latest ploy: get Israel to do it.

This explains the MIND-BOGGLING SILENCE of the Democratic Party leadership on Bushite corporations gaining control of our election system during the 2002-2004 period, with a nearly $4 billion electronic voting boondoggle, called the "Help American Vote for Bush" Act--that they all voted for.*

Don't need no Nazi boots. Don't need no Tsarist troops. Don't need no Genghis Khan. Fiddle the vote and "bring it on."

(Any songwriter wants to steal this rhyme, be my guest!)

----------------------------------

So, what do we do about it?

----------------------------------

MASSIVE ABSENTEE BALLOT VOTING!

Citizen revolt against the machines!

Go for it, America! You can do it!

Absentee Ballot voting is not "safe" (they mess with those votes, too), but if enough people vote Absentee (and many are--it's up to 50% in Los Angeles)--if the 70% who despise Bush refuse to vote on their diabolical machines--if the 92% who want TRANSPARENT vote counting BOYCOTT the rigged machines--we can FORCE corrupt local/state election officials to the table. WHAT CAN THEY DO IF YOU DUMP THE TEA IN THE HARBOR?! WHAT CAN THEY DO IF YOU WON'T RIDE THE SEGREGATED BUS?! WHAT CAN THEY DO IF YOU WON'T PAY THE SALT TAX, and you go down to the sea and get your own damn salt FOR NOTHING?!

Hit 'em in their $4 billion boondoggle!

Bust the machines! Bust Bush! Bust the War! Bust Congress! Vote Absentee this November!


---------------------------------


*(Note: The ONLY Senate "no" votes on HAVA were...surprise, surprise...Hillary Clinton and Charles Schumer. Go figure. Possibly has something to do with New York still having the old-fashioned, reliable lever voting machines, and their refusal to give them up, despite intense Bush junta bullying. Also, New Yorkers tend to be smart cookies and intense at politics. If they got onto this coup, they might alert the rest of the country. Was that it? And the RECENT bullying has just been for show? Maybe. Dunno. As I said, hard to figure.)



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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
10. Look, friends, we have GOT to deal with the issue of POWERLESSNESS!
The American people are NOT stupid. Nor are they asleep. This poll establishes that beyond question. And many other polls agree. They have NOT BEEN FOOLED by the 24/7 fascist propaganda! But where the war profiteering corporate news monopolies HAVE succeeded is in convincing many members of the great American progressive majority that they are in the MINORITY--that the FALSE rightwing "mainstream" has somehow seized the brains of OTHER Americans; that OTHER Americans are nuts--or, in any case, that these nutballs CANNOT be defeated.

THAT is the problem! But what this poll means that the American people are ripe for a well-organized, focused ELECTION PROTEST. I have wondered about this very thing. How many people know? When I found out that 50% of Los Angeles voters were voting Absentee--and that there has been a huge surge in Absentee Ballot voting in California (and, I've heard, in other places as well) over the last few years (the HAVA-ization years), and also after speaking to voters, I was beginning to smell REBELLION. They are voting Absentee to GET AROUND the rigged machines! They want a HAND-COUNTED, PAPER BALLOT--and this is their only way of getting anything close to that.

They don't know that AB votes are ALSO not "safe." But that doesn't matter. It's their INTENT that tells you their level of awareness, and what they want. And if this many people....

Well, now we know. NINETY-TWO PERCENT!

Give these 92% a WAY TO PROTEST, and they WILL!

An Absentee Ballot protest is the PERFECT SOLUTION! It gets people involved. It will strike terror into the hearts of corrupt election officials who have bought into all this secrecy and corporate privatization. What can they do if NOBODY WILL VOTE ON THEIR EVIL MACHINES?!

We've got to bust these machines NOW!

It won't solve all election problems. But it's a BEGINNING! The power of that 92% needs to be MANIFESTED. If 92% refuses to vote on the machines--or even if 50% or 60% vote absentee, overall--this electronic voting scam is OVER.

You know what's going to happen if we DON'T PROMOTE this very pointed and doable election protest? When RFK's lawsuit goes public--if, as he says, just before the election--people are going to NOT VOTE! They are going to feel MORE despair.

They NEED this protest. They need to DO something. And this is a protest that ALL can join. People who would never think of going to a street protest. People who CAN'T go to street protests or meetings. People who have given up on their government. Disgruntled Republicans. Despairing non-voters. It pulls in EVERYBODY.

How does this 92% gets its voice HEARD? What can it DO to be heard?

THAT'S the problem. How to overcome this pervasive sense of powerlessness? And the Absentee Ballot protest is the SOLUTION.

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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
13. THANK YOU althecat & "Scoop" - Let FREEDOM Ring...No Surrender
Edited on Mon Aug-21-06 01:53 PM by autorank
To our rulers:

We have rights, inherent rights, inalienable. We derived them upon our first breath.
They were not given and they cannot be taken away.

We demand that you acknowledge them now. Enough of the nonsense of bits and bytes.
Show us the proof that you were elected Mr. and Mrs. Politician. Otherwise, we
do not recognize your legitimacy.

Stop the charade right now. Were onto the game and its rigged. We know what it
means when you initiate Voter IDs that will knock out 10% of the population (mostly
poor). We know what it means when voting equipment (for decades) fails in mostly
minority neighborhoods and ballots are spoiled. We know what is when you hide the
whole process in a box and call it e-voting.e standing for egregious.

No more lies, fabrications manipulationsstop it now

We demand the right to vote, have it counted and that right is demanded for all of our
fellow citizens regardless of race color, or creed.

This survey is clear proof. Where do you get results like this that find the American
people in 80-90% agreement on fundamental issues?

FIX IT AND FIX IT NOW.

Very truly yours,

92% of the American People



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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
15. Where is our Demiocratic Party Leadership???!!!!
In recent polls by the Pew Research Group, the Opinion Research Corporation, the Wall Street Journal, and CBS News, the American majority has made clear how it feels. Look at how the majority feels about some of the issues that you'd think would be gospel to a real Democratic party:

1. 65 percent (of ALL Americans, Democrats AND Republicans) say the government should guarantee health insurance for everyone -- even if it means raising taxes.

2. 86 percent favor raising the minimum wage (including 79 percent of selfdescribed "social conservatives").

3. 60 percent favor repealing either all of Bush's tax cuts or at least those cuts that went to the rich.

4. 66 percent would reduce the deficit not by cutting domestic spending but by reducing Pentagon spending or raising taxes.

5. 77 percent believe the country should do "whatever it takes" to protect the environment.

6. 87 percent think big oil corporations are gouging consumers, and 80 percent (including 76 percent of Republicans) would support a windfall profits tax on the oil giants if the revenues went for more research on alternative fuels.

7. 69 percent agree that corporate offshoring of jobs is bad for the U.S. economy (78 percent of "disaffected" voters think this), and only 22% believe offshoring is good because "it keeps costs down."



http://alternet.org/wiretap/29788 /

8. Over 60% oppose the War on the Iraqi People.

9. 92% support TRANSPARENT, VERIFIABLE elections!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.




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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. here
Edited on Mon Aug-21-06 03:48 PM by AtomicKitten
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

... and, as you can see, it was rejected by much of DU.

There is a bit of a disconnect between complaining "where is the Democratic leadership?" and rejecting that evidence when proffered.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Whoa...what's that sign line message....
...wild stuff. Let's get them this article. The magic words "Zogby" should get some attention.

:)
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. ***
you are not a slave

It's in the new Rolling Stone Magazine with Christina Aguilera on the cover, issue 8/26/06. Not linkable yet, but will do so as soon as it's available to pilfer over the internets.

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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Donna Brazille is a Democraic Party "Consultant".
She is NOT the Leadership of the Democratic party.

I don't usually agree with Donna. In fact, most of the time her smug conservativism make me vomit.
In this particular case, I strongly agree with her, and she strongly agrees with me: The Democratic Party Leadership is ignoring the issue of unverifiable, non-transparent elections, an issue that WINS with 92% of the electorate! :shrug: WHY?
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. she is chair of the DNC's Voting Rights Institute
I would argue that that position is, in fact, leadership.

http://aalbc.com/authors/donnabrazile.htm

Check out the Rolling Stone Magazine's current issue (8/26/06). Can't link to it yet (I subscribe) but there is a terrific follow-up to RFK's article, this time focusing on Ohio. It outlines some of the BS Blackwell is perpetrating in Ohio this cycle. A side piece references Brazile's quest to slam some heads together.

I share your frustration.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Here Also
Wes Clark's Political Action Committee just issued the second hard hitting podcast (called "Clarkcasts") on this issue. They include over 40 minutes of interviews with the experts on these issues and transcripts are being made available as soon as possible (some are already complete) which includes more extensive discussion that had to be edited out of the podcasts for time. These Clarkcasts are going out under General Clark's own name as a part of his weekly series of discussions on important issues facing America.

The DU thread discussing this is here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. As much as I like the General,
he is NOT Democratic Party Leadership.
He IS a popular candidate for President, and a great campaigner, but (as of now) he is OUTSIDE the Democratic Party Leadership.


THIS is the Democratic Party Leadership:

Democratic Party House Minority Leader= Nancy Pelosi
Democratic Party Minority Leader Senate= Harry Reid
Chair of the Democratic national Committee= Howard Dean
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Point taken
Still it is progress to have potential Democratic Presidential Candidates associate with this issue.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Absolutely!!!
The more and the LOUDER the better!!!!
92% of ALL Americans in favor of transparent and verifiable elections!!!!

The Democratic Party should be running to wrap themselves in this Issue!
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
20. I salute you, gentlemen.
:patriot:

Thank you so much.

Onward!
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Onward...to Constantinople;)
Get that treasure...which is the realization that no matter what garbage they try to "cramdown" our throats, the American people know better...there is a universal desire, regardless of race or culture, for autnonomy...that's the basis for democracy imho. And we have it whether or not the CCM (complicit corporate media) tells us the facts or does it's normal dissembling.

Onward!
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. At least to Raw Story
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
26. Recommended.


Peace.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
28. Excellent! Thanks for all your hard work!
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
29. K & R. More great stuff from the tireless work of Autorank. Thanks!!!
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. K&R. autorank is amazing.
Thank the gods he's on our side.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Bonus for Kurvoski and Mr. Jeffereson...and everyon on this thread!!!


Was * elected fair & square:

Very confident he was elected fair and square: 45%
-------------------------
(Rest of #'s tomorrow on that one, two other responses,
somewhat confident and not confident at all)

Which means that

LESS THAN 50% OF AMERICANS NOW THINK BUSH WAS ELECTED "FAIR & SQUARE"
Nice work WH and all your cheating supporters. The public doubt of legitimacy
is profound. I've been through a bunch of Republican's being elected president
and I never once doubted the outcome, and I'm a TOTAL Democrat. Amazing.

That's your bonus prize, a preview of the yet to be announced numbers.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Thanks Mr. Jefferson. You know, sleep is generally over rated;)
Can you believe that 92% figure and the 80% against secret computer counting. Damn! I guess the politicians didn't talk to their constituents. Chris Dodd and whoever the Dem House sponsor (I'm
blanking) should get my article.

Check my resonse to Kurovski, I have a bonus for the two of you for being such die hard guys!
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. It's a testament to the fact that almost all citizens...
...regardless of political leanings, want a fair electoral process, and further, that they are a lot more intelligent than corrupt politicians give them credit for being.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. If they want it, they should be willing to work for it...
Edited on Tue Aug-22-06 09:17 AM by redqueen
let's hope we can make a LOT more progress on this issue by 08.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
36. Back To The Top
*shadow government*
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