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"Why Can't Other People Respect My Religion?" (WV case)

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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 02:55 PM
Original message
"Why Can't Other People Respect My Religion?" (WV case)
Unfortunately, there's no easy way for me to link to this site, which requires a paid subscription (not worth the money). But you can try Bugmenot and other resources to get to the entire article, which is a pretty pitiful display of "us poor abused Christians" nonsense. If anyone wants to read the whole thing, I can e-mail it to them.

For Mike Queen, the Harrison County School Board member leading the fight to defend the longtime exhibition of a portrait of Jesus at Bridgeport High School, the controversy is about religious liberty.

snip

"These were adults in the school system who were role models for me and other students, Queen said. Theyre among my fondest memories of my early school days. School employees dont have to give up their religious identity when they go to work, he said. They dont become Godless individuals when they step foot on school property. The pending lawsuit in federal district court two parents filed the suit in late June, charging the school board, the school superintendent and Bridgeport High principal Lindy Bennett with endorsing Christianity over other religions may help state and local school officials draft a policy on how school employees can express their religious affiliation on the job, Queen said.


snip: the other perspective

But the parents who filed the suit believe their religious freedom is being infringed on by school officials.

Harold Sklar is Jewish. He is a lawyer with the U.S. Justice Department and has lived in Bridgeport for 13 years, according to the legal complaint filed in federal district court in Clarksburg.

snip

By hanging the Jesus portrait, school officials are elevating Christianity over other religions and non-religion, the suit states.

Jacqueline McKenzie is the other parent who is a plaintiff in the suit. A Roman Catholic, McKenzie has been a teacher since 1969. She has worked as a substitute teacher at Bridgeport High.

snip

She objects to the school districts imposition of its preferred religious expression on her, and most especially by the fact she must subject herself to the school districts official religious expression in order to fulfill her obligations as a substitute teacher and as a volunteer at the school. McKenzie made complaints between 1991 and 1995 to school officials about the portrait. Sklar first complained about the portrait in 1996, the complaint states.


http://www.timeswv.com

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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh, let 'em hang 'em all up there, as long a portrait of
Madelyn Murray O'Hare is among them.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. I respect what people say and do. I do not respect people who parrot.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
3. I want them to turn some snakes loose in there too!
So I don't feel left out!
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Snakes in a Classroom!
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. That's got to be next!
Got to be fair to all of Gawd's Children...Reich? Meanwhile they are blowing the children to hell in Lebanon and Iraq as they worry about what Gawd wants, or is pissed off about this week.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Get these motherfuckin' snakes out of my motherfuckin' school! nt
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Gawd will get you for that!
If that guy can have his picture of JC and the other guy can have his whatever and the next son of a bitch can his his commandments and we all got to say the lord's prayer...then BYE GAWD the snake handlers shouldn't be slighted either! Meanwhile the three Rs can keep right on going straight to hell in a handbasket and the jobs straight to India!
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. (just ordered that bumpersticker) - great!. . n/t
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Thanks. Hearing them use that phrase again
Edited on Sun Aug-20-06 04:24 PM by impeachdubya
regarding the most recent court decision just drove me right up the wall.

I've got a few more I need to do in the same vein when I get the chance.
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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
6. "They dont become Godless individuals..."
"They dont become Godless individuals when they step foot on school property."

Of course not. They become secular individuals. It boggles the mind that people don't understand the difference.
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Keep religion out of public schools
How is that a bad thing? Ugh.

I don't think that Jesus would be very pleased with this Cult of Personality thing that some of His followers have going.

Putting up a picture of Christ and forcing folks to look at it no more makes the picture hanger a Christian than me standing in a garage makes me a car.
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The Wielding Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
8. Let Christians have respect. That's what I thought the target of your
post was about, and I was ready to side with the Christians who are sometimes badly battered here at Du and should have respect as having a freedom we must defend.
Then when I read that the Christians are the oppressors, I was saddened that Christians too have a feeling that they have the superior knowledge of religion and are quick to down talk others spiritual beliefs.

Even the most crass cult has a deep felt influence on believers and anyone with a heart and brain must tread lightly on an individuals creed.

I say laws are made to be liberal enough to support freedom of religious beliefs and strong enough to protect harmful effects of some radical cults. So I say to anyone who wants to control a persons spirituality to find a way to help that person on a open plane where you can state who and what you hold dear and if you prove to be a good example they will come see your life as a testament to your faith.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Let non-believers have their respect too.
Edited on Sun Aug-20-06 03:56 PM by Hubert Flottz
I don't even have kids in school anymore, but I pay my taxes so that your kids have a place to get an EDUCATION...not a fuking sermon!

EDIT...I don't go out and attack anyone for what he believes, so why should I be attacked for what I can't believe?
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Exactly - and I don't go to church to learn algebra
There is a time and place for everything. School is for learning the three r's. Church is for learning about religion.

There are religious schools that people can send their children to if they believe that strongly in their children getting religious instruction at school.

Personally, I would rather that the church I've chosen teach my children about Christ and God than the public schools! I respect all other religions but do I want my kids to be bombarded with teachings about every one of them that exist out there - which we'd have to do in order to be fair to all religions.

Again - the story in the OP just solidifies it in my head: these folks are treating Jesus as a Cult of Personality. They aren't following any of His teachings, just trying to hang His poster and look pious.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. If we let the bible thumpers take over our schools it's just a matter
Edited on Sun Aug-20-06 04:09 PM by Hubert Flottz
of time, before the James Jones types, or some other "gawdly" type of nutcase that sexually abuses children at church, because they can, comes into the picture at school too. Do you want your kids drinking spiked Kool-Aid in class, or coming home impregnated or worse, by Pastor Flesh?

Not everyone who's practicing whatever religion, is someone who's anymore qualified to properly instruct our kids in the ways of the world, than Bush is qualified to be president of the United States!
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Nobody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Algebra! Oh NO! That word came from Arabic!
Someone please don't tell these people that modern mathematics as we know it came from the Arabs. This includes the zero concept and place value. Before that, the western world was using the Roman number system which is horrible for mathematics.

These people are insecure about the strength of their faith that they lose sight of appropriate expressions of piety.

You walk into a school, you don't suddenly stop being whatever it is you are. You can still wear clothing and jewelry that proclaims your religion for all the world to see. Go ahead and say grace quietly before eating in the lunchroom. Pray silently to yourself before tests, or even before each class. No one is preventing any of this private piety, and I doubt anyone is seriously proposing to ban it. I hope not.

Schools and government buildings are supposed to be neutral ground. No one should have to feel like an outsider when they go to school or appear in court.
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Nobody, you pretty much summed it up
No one should feel like an outsider because we are all paying for public schools with our taxes.

And everyone knows that the Arabs hate us for our freedoms. The zero concept just proves it! :p
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The Wielding Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. As I said, lead by example . Sermons should never be forced on anyone.
I RESPECT your right to Not believe in any supreme being or the same creed as your neighbor, your city, your state, or our country. This is freedom guaranteed in the Bill Of Rights of Our Democratic USA. That is what we have fought for. * and his Corporate pals can't take that from me. neither can a few overly pushy Christian parents take that from your children if you teach them that they need not be swayed by teachings that are against your personal spiritual truths.Be open to the goodness in everyone. Maybe they will want to emulate your; ex: peaceful, free, or giving, nature.
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koopie57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
16. I was wondering why people
who apparently have such a strong faith in God need to push so hard to prove it to others. I would expect that a person of deep faith and a comforting relationship with their God (whomever or whatever) would be content to carry his picture in their wallet or wear a crucifix around their neck. Something peaceful and personal. I have nothing to do with organized religion anymore cuz so many of them seem to making a fool out of God. And God (if you believe or not) is not the problem, it is how people use him. I think that is what he meant in the commandments when he said do not use his name in vain. Like some evangelicals use his name to get money or votes or whatever they want. All he really wanted was respect one another, care for one another and play nice. IHMO
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Maybe their so-called "faith" isn't all it's cracked up to be?
I often think they try to shove it in other people's faces and scream about it from the housetops in order to drown out their OWN doubts.
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. These people are scared shitless
Edited on Sun Aug-20-06 07:24 PM by MountainLaurel
Their nice, white Christian homogenous world is changing rapidly thanks to federal facilities that have been sited there, efforts to bring in high-tech businesses, local universities. Minorities have always been present in Harrison County, but the old power structures remained intact. Now that there's a possibility of that changing, these folks are clinging tightly to their control of political and educational systems to emphasize the others' status as outsiders, and decrying anyone who opposes them as anti-Christian and anti-American.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
19. Putting your religion above all others in a school is not a "right"
and people who don't like it aren't opressors.
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Ready4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
20. Out of respect for Christianity...
I oppose the posting of a portrait of Satan in any public school.

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
21. It's about the Constitution, period
People should really stop saying anything about being offended when government officials and institutions violate the Constitution. It wouldn't matter to me what religious symbol was placed in a school, it's against the Constitution - end.of.story.
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