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eccles12 Donating Member (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:26 AM
Original message
Wow!! On a completely different subject, I happened to pass Tony Brown's
Edited on Sun Aug-20-06 10:28 AM by eccles12
Journal on PBS with guest Dr. Karenga. What an education i received in this short time. Too much to go into here but if anyone gets a chance to see this program you must.

Very enlightening discussion and many convincing answers to questions on reparations (which has been totally misrepresented by the media and talking heads of today), holocaust (the first of which is described as that which happened to the Native Americans, and then the African slaves, and then the Jews in Germany). Questions about why only the Jews are receiving reparations and even from people who did not live during Hitler's reign. Difference between holocaust and discrimination in terms of "perpetrators" "collaborators" and "beneficiaries." So much was discussed and explained in terms of ancient history, modern history etc. No anti-semitism, no anti-white, anglo etc. just straightforward discussion of facts and history. I am excited to learn more about the topics discussed. A very good program for people who are sincerely interested in humanity and what can be done to enhance our treatment and respect for each other. I was very impressed. The most interesting discussion was around the importance of NOT allowing others to define you or what you are about. A lesson that Dems need to take to heart. The key to holding the reigns of power in history has largely been held by those who define and force their definitions upon others in either covert or overt ways.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
1. Holocaust happening presently - 3.5 million dead in Congo since 1998
Brown is great

http://archive.corporatewatch.org/newsletter/issue13/is...

The war on Iraq is not the only war in the world and it is not the only war being fought for our material benefit. Western consumers seemingly insatiable demand for mobile phones, laptops, games consoles and other luxury electronic goods has been fuelling violent conflict and killing millions in the Democratic Republic of Congo (formerly Zaire). By Erik Vilwar.

The Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) is possibly the most mineral rich place on earth though this has proved a curse to the people of the Congo. The Congo holds millions of tons of diamonds, copper, cobalt, zinc, manganese, uranium (the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were built using Congolese uranium), and coltan. Coltan, a substance made up of columbium and tantalum, is a particularly valuable resource used to make mobile phones, night vision goggles, fiber optics, and micro-capacitors.

What is Coltan?
Coltan looks like black mud, but is three times heavier than iron and only slightly lighter than gold. It is found in abundance in eastern Congo and can be mined with minimal equipment. Coltan is vital to the high tech economy. Wireless electronic communication would not exist without it. The mud is refined into tantalum a metallic element that is both a superb conductor of electricity and extremely heat-resistant. Tantalum powder is a vital component in capacitors, for the control of the flow of current in miniature circuit boards. Capacitors made of tantalum are found inside every laptop, pager, personal digital assistant, and mobile phone.1 Tantalum is also used in the aviation and atomic energy industries. A very small group of companies in the world process coltan. These include H.C.Starck (Germany, a subsidiary ot Bayer), Cabott Inc. (US), Ningxia (China), and Ulba (Kazakhstan). The worlds biggest coltan mines are in Australia and they account for about 60% of world production. It is generally believed, however, that 80% of the worlds reserves are in Africa, with DRC accounting for 80% of the African reserves.2

The human costs of this conflict have been horrific. According to the UN, up until last September, in the five Eastern provinces of DRC alone, between 3 and 3.5 million people had died directly because of the war. 4 Many were killed and tortured but most died of starvation and disease. The destruction of farms has resulted in malnutrition and starvation. Millions of people have been forced from their homes. Years of war have led to a social environment in which men abuse women on a staggering scale and children become instruments of war, forced to work in mines and conscripted into armed forces. Surveys in Butembo found that 90% of people were living on less than 20 cents a day and only one meal. 5
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Genocide and Covert Operations in Africa 1993-1999

Genocide and Covert Operations in Africa 1993-1999 (African Studies, 50)
by Wayne Madsen (Editor)

Genocide and Covert Operations in Africa: 1993-1999
Background
The Ba-n'daw Report
Covert American Support for the Combatants
American Military Support for the Second Invasion of the Congo
Profiting from the Destabilization of Central Africa
Summary
NOTES
Background
(c) Wayne Madsen

Prepared Testimony and Statement for the Record of

Wayne Madsen

Author,

Genocide and Covert Operations in Africa 1993-1999

Investigative Journalist

On:

Suffering and Despair: Humanitarian Crisis in the Congo

Before the

Subcommittee on International Operations and Human Rights

Committee on International Relations

United States House of Representatives

Washington, DC

May 17, 2001


An ominous report on the fate of refugees was made by Nicholas Stockton, the Emergencies Director of Oxfam U.K. & Ireland. He said that on November 20, 1996, he was shown U.S. aerial intelligence photographs which confirmed, in considerable detail, the existence of 500,000 people distributed in three major and numerous minor agglomerations. He said that three days later the U.S. military claimed it could only locate one significant mass of people, which they claimed were identified as former members of the Rwandan armed forces and the Interhamwe militia. Since they were the number one targets for the RPF forces, their identification and location by the Americans was undoubtedly passed to the Rwandan forces. They would have surely been executed.<19> Moreover, some U.S. military and diplomatic personnel in central Africa said that any deaths among the Hutu refugees merely constituted collateral damage.

Some of the companies involved in this new scramble for Africa have close links with PMCs and Americas top political leadership. For example, America Minerals Fields, Inc., a company that was heavily involved in promoting the 1996 accession to power of Kabila, was, at the time of its involvement in the Congos civil war, headquartered in Hope, Arkansas. Its major stockholders included long-time associates of former President Clinton going back to his days as Governor of Arkansas. America Mineral Fields also reportedly enjoys a close relationship with Lazare Kaplan International, Inc., a major international diamond brokerage whose president remains a close confidant of past and current administrations on Africa matters.<26>

When the AFDL-CZ and their Rwandan allies reached Kinshasa in 1996, it was largely due to the help of the United States. One reason why Kabilas men advanced into the city so quickly was the technical assistance provided by the DIA and other intelligence agencies. According to informed sources in Paris, U.S. Special Forces actually accompanied ADFL-CZ forces into Kinshasa. The Americans also reportedly provided Kabilas rebels and Rwandan troops with high definition spy satellite photographs that permitted them to order their troops to plot courses into Kinshasa that avoided encounters with Mobutus forces.<20> During the rebel advance toward Kinshasa, Bechtel provided Kabila, at no cost, high technology intelligence, including National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) satellite data.<21>

One of the major goals of the Rwandan-backed RCD-Goma faction, a group fighting the Kabila government in Congo, is restoration of mining concessions for Barrick Gold, Inc. of Canada. In fact, the rebel RCD governments mining minister signed a separate mining deal with Barrick in early 1999.<29> Among the members of Barricks International Advisory Board are former President Bush and former President Clintons close confidant Vernon Jordan.


------------

BLOOD MONEY OUT OF AFRICA



Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney

Covert Action in Africa: A Smoking Gun in Washington, D.C.

Rayburn House Office Building
Friday, April 6, 2001
10:00am - 12:00 noon


The accounts we are about to hear today assist us in understanding just why Africa is in the state it is in today. You will hear that at the heart of Africa's suffering is the West's, and most notably the United States', desire to access Africa's diamonds, oil, natural gas, and other precious resources.

You will hear that the West, and most notably the United States, has set in motion a policy of oppression, destabilization and tempered, not by moral principle, but by a ruthless desire to enrich itself on Africa's fabulous wealth. While falsely pretending to be the friends and allies of many African countries, so desperate for help and assistance, many western nations have in reality betrayed those countries' trust--and instead, have relentlessly pursued their own selfish military and economic policies. Western countries have incited rebellion against stable African governments by encouraging and even arming opposition parties and rebel groups to begin armed insurrection.

The Western nations have even actively participated in the assassination of duly elected and legitimate African Heads of State and replaced them with corrupted and malleable officials. Western nations have even encouraged and been complicit in the unlawful invasions by African nations into neighboring counties.

Something must be done to right these wrongs.

I invite you to listen and learn first-hand of the West's activities in Africa.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Prepared Statement of Wayne Madsen

WHAT A DIFFERENCE AN ELECTION MAKES: OR DOES IT?

Wayne Madsen is an investigative journalist who has written for The Village Voice, The Progressive, CAQ, and the Intelligence Newsletter. He is the author of Genocide and Covert Activities in Africa 1993-1999 (Lewiston, NY: Edwin Mellen, 1999), an expose of U.S. and French intelligence activities in Africa's recent civil wars and ethnic rebellions. He served as an on-air East Africa analyst for ABC News in the aftermath of the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania. Mr. Madsen has appeared on 60 Minutes, World News Tonight, Nightline, 20/20, MS-NBC, and NBC Nightly News, among others. He has been frequently quoted by the Associated Press, foreign wire services, and many national and international newspapers.

Mr. Madsen is also the author of a motion picture screen play treatment about the nuclear submarine USS Scorpion. He is a former U.S. Naval Officer and worked for the National Security Agency and U.S. Naval Telecommunications Command.

---

I wish to discuss the record of American policy in Africa over most of the past decade, particularly that involving the central African Great Lakes region. It is a policy that has rested, in my opinion, on the twin pillars of unrestrained military aid and questionable trade. The military aid programs of the United States, largely planned and administered by the U.S. Special Operations Command and the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), have been both overt and covert.

Some of the companies involved in this new "scramble for Africa" have close links with PMCs and America's top political leadership. For example, America Minerals Fields, Inc., a company that was heavily involved in promoting the 1996 accession to power of the late Congolese President Laurent-Desire Kabila, was, at the time of its involvement in the Congo's civil war, headquartered in Hope, Arkansas. Its major stockholders included long-time associates of former President Clinton going back to his days as Governor of Arkansas. America Mineral Fields also reportedly enjoys a close relationship with Lazare Kaplan International, Inc., a major international diamond brokerage whose president remains a close confidant of past and current administrations on Africa matters.

One of the major goals of the Rwandan-backed Rassemblement Congolais pour la Democratie (RCD), a group fighting the Kabila government in Congo, is restoration of mining concessions for Barrick Gold, Inc. of Canada. In fact, the rebel RCD government's "mining minister" signed a separate mining deal with Barrick in early 1999. Among the members of Barrick's International Advisory Board are former President Bush and former President Clinton's close confidant Vernon Jordan.

Currently, Barrick and tens of other mining companies are stoking the flames of the civil war in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Each benefits by the de facto partition of the country into some four separate zones of political control. First the mineral exploiters from Rwanda and Uganda concentrated on pillaging gold and diamonds from the eastern Congo. Now, they have increasingly turned their attention to a valuable black sand called columbite-tantalite or "col-tan." Col-tan is a key material in computer chips and, therefore, is as considered a strategic mineral. It is my hope that the Bush administration will take pro-active measures to stem this conflict by applying increased pressure on Uganda and Rwanda to withdraw their troops from the country. However, the fact that President Bush has selected Walter Kansteiner to be Assistant Secretary of State for African, portends, in my opinion, more trouble for the Great Lakes region. A brief look at Mr. Kansteiner's curriculum vitae and statements calls into question his commitment to seeking a durable peace in the region. For example, he has envisaged the splitting up of the Great Lakes region into separate Tutsi and Hutu states through "relocation" efforts and has called the break-up of the DRC inevitable. I believe Kansteiner's previous work at the Department of Defense where he served on a Task Force on Strategic Minerals and one must certainly consider col-tan as falling into that category -- may influence his past and current thinking on the territorial integrity of the DRC. After all, 80 per cent of the world's known reserves of col-tan are found in the eastern

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/politics/blood_sp...

Africa: U.S. Covert Action Exposed

By Eric Ture Muhammad
Final Call
April 25, 2001

WASHINGTON -- Corporate greed, combined with a desire to never allow the "throne of civilization" to unite and become self-sufficient, continues to join at the hip the U.S. Government, the United Nations and corporate cartels in a persistent war on Africa, a recent congressional hearing concluded.

Rep. Cynthia McKinney (D-Ga.) chaired the hearing, "Covert Action in Africa: A Smoking Gun in Washington, D.C.," and led the voices of castigation that claimed the U.S. Government, the UN, private militias and western economic interests possessed complete knowledge of pending civil unrest in Africa and fed the fray between African nations. Their aim was to use war, disease, hunger and poverty as covers while continuing the centuries-old practice of rape and exploitation of the continent's human and mineral resources, testimonies charged.

Among those named as collaborators during the daylong hearing were U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, former U.S. President Bill Clinton, former Secretary of State Madeline K. Albright and international diamond merchant Maurice Tempelsman.

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=116

A former U.S. ambassador to Uganda ? acting on behalf of the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) -- gathered intelligence on the movement of Hutu refugees through eastern Zaire. The DIAs second ranking Africa hand, who also served as the U.S. military attache in Kigali, reconnoitered the Rwandan border towns of Cyangugu and Gisenyi, gathering intelligence on the cross border movements of anti-Mobutu Rwandan Tutsis from Rwanda.<3>

The Defense Intelligence Agencys African bureau chief established a close personal relationship with Bizima (alias Bizimana) Karaha, an ethnic Rwandan who would later become the Foreign Minister in the Laurent Kabila government. Moreover, the DIAs Africa division had close ties with Military Professional Resources, Inc. (MPRI), an Alexandria, Virginia private military company (PMC), whose Vice President for Operations is a former Director of DIA.

The political officer of the U.S. Embassy in Kinshasa, accompanied by a CIA operative, traveled with AFDL-CZ rebels through the eastern Zaire jungles for weeks after the 1996 Rwandan invasion of Zaire. In addition, it was reported that the Kinshasa embassy official and three U.S. intelligence agents regularly briefed Bill Richardson, Clintons special African envoy, during the rebels steady advance towards Kinshasa.<4> The U.S. embassy official conceded that he was in Goma to do more than meet rebel leaders for lunch. Explaining his presence, he said What I am here to do is to acknowledge them as a very significant military and political power on the scene, and, of course, to represent American interests.<5> In addition, MPRI was reportedly providing covert training assistance to Kagames troops in preparation for combat in Zaire.<6> Some believe that MPRI had actually been involved in training the RPF from the time it took power in Rwanda.<7>
Some of the companies involved in this new scramble for Africa have close links with PMCs and Americas top political leadership. For example, America Minerals Fields, Inc., a company that was heavily involved in promoting the 1996 accession to power of Kabila, was, at the time of its involvement in the Congos civil war, headquartered in Hope, Arkansas. Its major stockholders included long-time associates of former President Clinton going back to his days as Governor of Arkansas. America Mineral Fields also reportedly enjoys a close relationship with Lazare Kaplan International, Inc., a major international diamond brokerage whose president remains a close confidant of past and current administrations on Africa matters.<26>


http://www.geocities.com/minjokhan/SocAnthro/MadsenCong...

Bush, Clinton in the Web: Behind the Assassination of Kabila

By Deirdre Griswold and Johnnie Stevens

The failure of both Bill Clinton and George W. Bush to express even the most perfunctory regret over the assassination of Congo President Laurent Dsir Kabila last year, betrays how implicated Washington is in this latest outrage against the most important country in central Africa.

Washington's silence is even more glaring considering that its foreign policy experts are well aware that the African people view the secret intelligence agencies of the U.S. government, which work closely with corporations seeking vast fortunes in the region, as the probable authors of this crime.

http://www.minesandcommunities.org/Company/kabila1.htm

Congo (Kinshasa): Arms Past and Present, 01/2699

Congo (Kinshasa): Arms Past and Present

Region: Central Africa

Issue Areas: +economy/development+ +security/peace+

+US policy focus+

Summary Contents:

This posting contains the executive summary of a new report from the Arms Trade Resource Center of the World Policy Institute, citing past and present U.S. military connections to countries involved in the conflict in the Democratic Republic of Congo. The report calls for greater restrictions and transparency in U.S. programs of arms sales and military training, and for refocusing resources on civilian development.

Deadly Legacy:

U.S. Arms to Africa and the Congo War

A Report of the Arms Trade Resource Center

January 2000

William D. Hartung

World Policy Institute

65 Fifth Ave. Suite 413

New York, NY 10003

Tel: (212)-229-5808, ext. 106

Fax: (212)-229-5579

E-mail: hartung@newschool.edu

Executive Summary

As the Clinton administration moves into the presidency of the United Nations Security Council, it is declaring January 2000, "the month of Africa." Hoping to counter criticisms that it has been engaged in a rhetorical promotion of U.S.-Africa relations over the past two years without substantive follow-up, the administration has announced its intent to prioritize finding solutions to the ongoing conflicts in the region, including a 30-year civil war that trudges on in Angola and the ongoing crisis in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC). It has not, however, accepted its own responsibility in helping to create the conditions that have led to these seemingly intractable conflicts.

Over the past few years, the administration has made considerable effort to put a new and improved face on its relations with African countries. High-level visits to the region -- first by Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, then President Clinton himself in the spring of 1998, and U.S. Ambassador to the UN Richard Holbrooke this past December -- have reinforced the idea of a new partnership with the continent based on promoting "African solutions to African problems." The reality, however, is that the problems facing Africa and her people -- violent conflict, political instability, and the lowest regional rate of economic growth worldwide -- have been fueled in part by a legacy of U.S. involvement in the region. Moreover, the solutions being proposed by the Clinton administration remain grounded in the counter-productive Cold-War policies that have defined U.S.-Africa relations for far too long.

Unfortunately, the ongoing war in the Democratic Republic of the Congo presents a vivid example of how U.S. policies -- past and present -- have failed the people of Africa. After more than two years of devastating war, African leaders are struggling, with little success, to implement the Lusaka peace accord. Signatories to the treaty continue to call for UN peacekeeping support even as they prepare for continued fighting. Despite its demonstrable role in planting the seeds of this conflict, the U.S. has done little to either acknowledge its complicity or help create a viable resolution. Official tours of the region and impressive rhetoric will not be enough to contribute to lasting peace, democratic stability, and economic development in Africa.

http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Urgent_Action/apic-012600.h...


The U.S. played a major role in converting the newly independent Congo into a cold war battleground. In 1961, the Eisenhower administration authorized the murder of Prime Minister Patrice Lumumba, who had been voted into office just months earlier in the territorys first-ever democratic election. Washington, which then installed Mobutu in power and kept him there for more than 30 years, bears heavy responsibility for the disastrous economic conditions, massive corruption, and suppression of human rights in Zaire. The U.S. prolonged Mobutus rule by providing more than $300 million in weapons and $100 million in military training.

With the end of the cold war, the U.S., France, and Belgium formed a troika designed to pressure Mobutu to move toward democracy. This effort might have produced more positive results had not France defected to support Mobutu and the Hutu military dictator in Rwanda, Juvnal Habyarimana, in defense of French language and culture, supposedly threatened by Anglophone Uganda and its Rwandan Patriotic Front (RPF) protgs.

All of the Western powers contributed to the Rwandan genocide of 1994 by ignoring warning signs and reducing the United Nations presence at a time when it should have been reinforced. France compounded the problem by intervening, ostensibly to protect Hutus from the vengeance of the Tutsi-dominated RPF, but also to permit the authors of the genocide to escape. The creation of refugee camps in the Congo near Rwanda was a virtual invitation to the 1997 attacks on the camps. The Clinton administration stalled international intervention, which might have saved refugee lives but which also would have thwarted the effort by Rwanda and Uganda to replace Mobutu with Kabila.

Despite the end of the cold war, Washington decisionmakers have continued to impose simplistic dichotomies on a complex, ambiguous reality. In Africa, Clinton posited a single solution to the problems of rogue statesnotably Islamist Sudan and dinosaurs such as Mobutunamely the new leaders of Ethiopia, Eritrea, Uganda, and Rwanda. Presumably these pragmatists would cooperate with Washington in establishing the new order in Africa.
http://www.fpif.org/briefs/vol5/v5n10congo_body.html

Holbrooke's defenders argue that the State Department's violently pro-Rwanda policy -- one in which the U.S. has done virtually nothing to try to compel the regime in Kigali to curtail its abuses -- is not just ineffective, as it was when the crisis was restricted to Rwanda and its border areas, but has become dangerous now that a general war has broken out across so much of Central Africa. Holbrooke, they insist, may not have half of Susan Rice's background, but he at least has the wit and the vision to see that something radical needs to be done.

The problem is that despite President Clinton's well-publicized trip to Africa, and his admirable decision to apologize to the Rwandan people for the U.S. refusal to intervene to stop the genocide, Washington is not really serious about getting involved in Africa in any way that could make a difference.

Holbrooke's motives may well be of the best -- certainly, it is hard to see how focusing on Congo will impress the hard-headed pols around Al Gore -- but the initiative he is supporting for a U.N. deployment is the worst kind of symbolic politics. It may be attractive in Washington, since it will permit policymakers to say they don't just care about suffering Kosovars, but about suffering Africans as well. But it has little or no chance of working, and it also risks confirming the cynical impression -- already too common in America and Western Europe -- that no matter how hard people try, there is nothing that can be done for Africa.

If the risks are small for the United States and its allies (they can all do their Bill Clinton imitations and say they feel Africa's pain), the risk for sub-Saharan Africa is great. The last thing the continent needs is more symbolic politics, either in the U.S. or the U.N. version.

http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2000/05/08/cong...
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emcguffie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
3. Holocaust also happening in Laos.
They're finishing off the Hmong, the descendants of the CIA Secret Army recruits.

They use artillery, chemical weapons, atrocities. They kill children looking for food. They do a lot more I won't go into right now. I'll post a link when I find it.

There's been this long argument, led by Laos and Vietnam of course, that they are armed resistors, but I know someone who went to investigate, and she isn't the only one, some journalists have gone to Laos -- my friend only went to Thailand, but she talked to people in Laos -- and there aren't any armed rebels there, just people who are being hunted down like vermin trying desperately to stay alive.

If they surrender, they are killed. If they stay, they are killed. If they escape to Thailand, Thailand saysa they want to send them back to Laos, because they aren't really refugees, they're really rebels.....

They helped us during the vietnam years. Or their fathers and grandfathers did.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. yes the Hmong I've posted about them also
:hi:



Jack Austin Smith, a Vietnam Veteran and a retired career soldier

Writing to an American who was confused about the Hmong people, Jack Austin Smith, a Vietnam Veteran and a retired career soldier, wrote the following in 1996 (quoted from his e-mail to me, with permission):

The war in Vietnam was fought on several fronts and I served in two them. The main American battle ground was in the Southern end of South Vietnam. In order for the North Vietnamese forces to fight us there, it was necessary for their supplies and troops to go through Laos and Cambodia on the Ho Chi Minh Trail, and Laos was controlled by a Pro-Communist Government at that time. Therefore America was not allowed to have any forces on the ground, although we were allowed to bomb and attack North Vietnamese troops with our aerial forces. About 99% of the combat forces on the ground were Hmong irregulars who were persuaded by Americans to forget about being neutral, and to fight the N. Vietnamese regulars (not relatively poorly trained Viet Cong guerrilla forces). We supplied air cover, but every combat trooper knows aircraft can't take and hold ground. We depended on the Hmongs to do this. Without modern arms, without medical help.
After the fall of Saigon we pulled out of Southeast Asia and left the Hmongs to continue the fight without air support. When we left, the Hmong had to fight both the Laotians and the N. Vietnamese. They could not fight tanks, heavy artillery and aircraft with rifles. A great many Hmongs were slaughtered in their villages. Many were slaughtered at airfields where they waited for evacuation planes that never came. A few were able to fight every foot of the way across Laos and cross the Mekong River into refugee camps in Thailand where they were further mistreated by rather corrupt UN and Thai officials. Out of a estimated 3,000,000 prewar Hmong population less than 200,000 made it to safety. One other ill informed or stupid writer said "they were all gone" meaning, I guess, that the combat Hmongs were all dead, they are wrong. Most of the survivors are in Australia, France and here among us.

Now I don't know about those heroes who have never heard a shot fired in anger, but I am embarrassed that my country so mislead these people. The Hmongs gave up literally everything for us: their country, their homes, their peaceful way of life, most of their families, everything that we would cherish. We promised them our continued support and then we bugged out.

You mentioned having relatives who fought in Vietnam and I hope they all survived. However their chances would have been much less if the Hmongs hadn't intercepted over 50% of the N. Vietnamese troops and supplies. If you truly loved your relatives, you should be grateful for the Hmongs' sacrifices.
http://www.jefflindsay.com/hmong.shtml

500,000 people in Laos fled and became international political refugees
2001 Hmong Population and Education in
the United States and the World
August 24, 2001
Researched and Collected by Dr. Vang Pobzeb

From 1975 to 1991, more than 500,000 people in Laos fled and became international political refugees in the world because of the legacy of the Vietnam War in Southeast Asia.


The Communist Lao and Vietnamese governments have been exterminating Hmong people in Laos since the end of the Vietnam War in 1975 and are still doing so today, because of Hmong people cooperated with the U.S. government during the Vietnam War. In 2001, witnesses in Laos have reported that many thousands of Communist Vietnamese soldiers are cooperating with the Communist Lao government of the Lao People's Democratic Republic (LPDR) to conduct an ethnic cleansing war, genocide and human rights violations against Hmong people in Laos. Therefore, we appeal to and call upon Hmong American intellectuals, educators and the general public to unify our leadership strategies and efforts in order to save the lives of Hmong people in Laos. We call upon all Hmong people to unify and work together to save the lives of Hmong people. Power politics in the world and global actors are remaining silent on the genocide against Hmong people in Laos because they are concerned with economics and commercial goods for themselves. They do not really care about human rights violations and genocide in Laos and in other parts of the world.

There are about 300,000 Hmong American people in the United States in 2001.


In 2001, there are approximately 80,000 Hmong American people in Minnesota; and 80,000 Hmong Americans in Wisconsin.


About 40,000 Hmong Americans moved from California to Minnesota, Wisconsin, and other states between 1996 and 2001.


About 70,000 Hmong Americans still live in California in 2001.


Many Hmong Americans moved from California to Minnesota and Wisconsin and other states because of the problems of welfare reforms and unemployment problems

http://www.laohumrights.org/2001data.html


all working links for post below found here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Laos - 2004 Anuual Report


The arrest of two European journalists for investigating the situation of the Hmong ethnic minority drew international attention to the lack of freedom in Laos, where the news media take their orders from the authorities. A press law announced in 2001 has still not been adopted.

The 15-year prison sentences received by reporters Thierry Falise and Vincent Reynaud drew the world's attention to the obstacles to foreign press coverage of the plight of Laos' Hmong ethnic minority. An international outcry forced the authorities in Vientiane to release the two journalists but their Laotian guides remained in prison and were allegedly mistreated.
Directly controlled by the information and culture ministry, the Laotian press gave a very one-sided account of the case of the two European journalists. The French-language weekly Le Rnovateur was the only publication to give both sides of the story, and it was immediately censored. The government news agency Khaosan Pathet Lao (KPL) is the only news organisation that is allowed to express a view on sensitive issues.
The party newspaper Paxaxon (People) bills itself as a "revolutionary publication written by the people and for the people which serves the revolution's political action." Journalists are civil servants in the employ of the information and culture ministry. The foreign ministry also has a say in media content. Criticism of the "friendly countries," especially the Vietnamese big brother and Burma, is banned.
To escape the propaganda, many Laotians are in the habit of watching Thai TV stations that can be received in border areas, including the capital. The authorities have never tried to put a stop to this. Similarly, the international radio services that broadcast in Lao, especially Radio Free Asia and Radio France Internationale, have never been jammed. On the other hand, foreign journalists who enter on a press visa are watched closely and are banned from visiting some parts of the country. The authorities control the only Internet operator and block some news websites and sites operated by dissidents based abroad.

http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=10197

Hmong leader in Calif. may be target of violence in Minnesota

Associated Press

ST. PAUL - Authorities are looking for connections among a spate of violent incidents directed against local Hmong leaders affiliated with Gen. Vang Pao, a California resident regarded as the most influential Hmong leader in the United States.

The incidents include a firebombing at the suburban St. Paul home of the general's son, a drive-by shooting at the home of his translator, a suspicious fire at a St. Paul social service agency the general founded, and a reported hit list that includes a veteran St. Paul police officer.

Star Tribune of Minneapolis in its Sunday editions. Rumors are swirling about what's behind the violence, which the Star Tribune of Minneapolis reported in its Sunday editions. Popular theories include communist agents, political divisions or the opening shots in a war of succession in the Hmong community.

"I believe there is something going on in a more general way," said Steve Young, former dean of the Hamline University law school and a close adviser to Vang, who lives outside Los Angeles. "These are not isolated incidents. Somebody is doing something."

http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/news/p ... /

gen. vang pao is a liar
Base: military
Re: My war too (Rose)
Re: WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW (your own people)
Re: i think... (kasey)
Re: General VANG PAO>>>??? (Alexis)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 00:01:18 GMT
From: yang_racers@yahoo.com (unknown yang)

vang pao is a liar who don't care about no one but himself. lets just face it, he is hmong and hmong men are are full of it. it was because of him lying to our parents in Laos that led to the death of over 108,000 hmong peoples. Two of thos people were my brothers. My dad lost his whole family and everyone else he cares for. General "coward" is not helping the hmongs in the usa neither the ones back home. he uses all the money he gets on gambling and the us lets him have 8 wives just because he was a dog to the americans who brainwashed the HMONGS to actually take part in th war just to die for the americans. A "TRUE LEADER" survives with all his people or die trying.

http://knossos.shu.edu/HyperNewsV/get/vp/military/66/4 /...

US WI: Sen. George Asks UW For Probe On Vang Pao

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02/n809/a09.html
Newshawk: Drug Policy Forum of Wisconsin www.drugsense.org/dpfwi/
Votes: 0
Pubdate: Sat, 27 Apr 2002
Source: Capital Times, The (WI)
Copyright: 2002 The Capital Times
Contact: tctvoice@madison.com
Website: http://www.captimes.com /
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/73
Author: Pat Schneider


SEN. GEORGE ASKS UW FOR PROBE ON VANG PAO

State Sen. Gary George is calling on UW-Madison Chancellor John Wiley to order an investigation into allegations by a UW-Madison professor that the commander of the CIA's secret army in the Vietnam War - now a leader of refugee Hmong in the United States - engaged in drug trafficking in Laos.

The allegations, 30 years old, resurfaced this month, enraging the refugee community.

"We will seek the truth and follow that path wherever it leads," George said Friday at a news conference at the State Capitol packed with Hmong veterans and supporters of Gen. Vang Pao.

Professor Alfred McCoy wrote about his findings on the role of Vang Pao and the CIA in drug trafficking in southeast Asia in a 1972 book, "The Politics of Heroin."

McCoy said the U.S. government assisted Vang Pao in bringing opium, an important cash crop for the Hmong, to heroin factories to help Vang Pao seal his leadership role and ensure a supply of fighters who waged a secret war against the North Vietnamese in Laos.

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02/n809/a09.html


McCoy said the U.S. government assisted Vang Pao in bringing opium


Posted on Wed, Apr. 28, 2004


ST. PAUL: Crime spree on Hmong investigated

BY LENORA CHU and TODD NELSON

Pioneer Press


Authorities are trying to determine whether a connection exists between anonymous death threats leveled Monday against seven Hmong community leaders and recent crimes committed against prominent Hmong.

St. Paul Police spokesman Paul Schnell revealed Wednesday that the death threats came in an anonymous call received by a St. Paul Hmong veterans group. Local and federal law enforcement agencies are investigating the alleged hit list.

Authorities also confirmed Wednesday that an object hurled through a window sparked the arson fire that destroyed the home of Cha Vang, son of influential leader Gen. Vang Pao. Cha Vang narrowly escaped the early Sunday fire with his wife and three daughters.

A flammable substance was also found in the home, according to Maplewood Police Chief Dave Thomalla, who declined to identify the object and substance.

Two other crimes are being investigated for possible connections. On April 20, someone fired five shots into the Maplewood home of Xang Vang, Gen. Vang Pao's translator. The following day, officials discovered someone had thrown a brick into a window and started a fire at the St. Paul offices of the Lao Family Community of Minnesota.

more
http://www.realcities.com/mld/twincities/8543732.htm



Muaj ib nqe ntawm Sen. Norm Coleman cov lus hais tias "nws yog ib qho tseem ceeb heev uas U.S. State Department yuav tsum ua txhua yam coj kom tau kev thaj yeeb nyab xeeb mus rau tebchaws Lostsuas thiab pab kom tau txoj kev muaj vaj huam sib luag (humanitarian) rau haiv neeg Hmoob nrog rau daws kom tau teeb meem tsoom Hmoob tawg rog nyob rau SE Asia".

http://www.hmonglaoradio.org/default.asp?active_page_id ...

From The Wire

Rapid Fire At Home Investigated
Saint Paul Pioneer Press (April 27, 2004)

Maplewood investigators suspect an arsonist set a weekend fire at the home of a prominent Hmong community leader, who is calling the blaze a politically motivated attempt to kill him and his family.

The fire destroyed the home of Cha Vang, son of Gen. Vang Pao, one of the most widely known and influential Hmong leaders in the United States.

http://fe.pennnet.com/News/Display_News_Story.cfm?Secti ... ...

Cha Vang, his wife and their three daughters were asleep when the fire broke out after 1 a.m. Sunday. A noise, possibly the sound of breaking glass, prompted him to investigate and he discovered the flames toward the back of the home. He and his family escaped unharmed, but the fire left little more than the garage standing.

"If you want to terrorize a person or send a message, you slash a tire," Cha Vang said Monday. "To burn down a house with people sleeping in it is attempted murder."

Investigators said they suspect arson because the house burned so thoroughly within minutes, said Maplewood Police Chief Dave Thomalla. Investigators searched the soot and debris for evidence for a second day on Monday.

http://fe.pennnet.com/News/Display_News_Story.cfm?Secti ... ...

1961
Eisenhower warns the young president-elect that Laos is a major crisis, the first "domino" in Southest Asia. The CIA begins the covert build up of Hmong forces under General Vang Pao at the beginning of the year. At the same time the U.S. sends the rightist forces to Laos six AT-6 Harvard trainer aircraft armed with machine guns and equipped to fire rockets and drop bombs. The covert PEO infantrymen are replaced by 400 clandestine U.S special forces personnel known as White Star Movile Training Teams. Kennedy announces U.S support for the sovereignty of Laos in March, directly confronting the Soviet Union. Geneva conference on Laos opens in May.

http://www.seacrc.org/pages/ravenschrono.html

http://www.ohiopowmia.com/news/2190302.html


COLEMAN HOSTS FIRST EVER MEETING BETWEEN HMONG LEADER


COLEMAN HOSTS FIRST EVER MEETING BETWEEN HMONG LEADER GENERAL VANG PAO AND SENIOR STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL
Coleman working to alleviate humanitarian crises in Laos and streamline Hmong refugee resettlement process

January 21st, 2004 - Washington, DC - Senator Norm Coleman today hosted a meeting in his Senate office between Hmong leader General Vang Pao and Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for East Asia and Pacific Affairs Matt Daley. The group, which also included Chao Ophat Nachmpassak, a member of the Lao royal family, discussed General Vang Pao's efforts to bring peace to Laos, the refugee resettlement program for Hmong in Thailand, and the humanitarian crisis facing many Hmong living in Laos.

"I have some serious concerns about the way the Hmong people are being treated today in Southeast Asia," Coleman said. "It's critical that the U.S. State Department does all it can to bring peace to Laos and an end to the humanitarian and refugee crises facing many Hmong in Southeast Asia. This meeting is a solid first step in opening up a real, meaningful diplomatic dialogue between Hmong leaders in Southeast Asia and the U.S. State Department."

General Vang Pao presented to State Department officials his vision for a lasting peace in Laos, as he publicly articulated on November 26. State Department officials listened to Vang Pao's presentation, and discussed the changing opportunities for peaceful reconciliation in Southeast Asia.

Daley, who had just returned from an official visit to the region, described the U.S. initiative to resettle in the U.S. as many as 14,000 Hmong refugees currently living in Wat Tham Krabok, Thailand

http://coleman.senate.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressRel ...
Hmong Proving Potent Political Organizers in U.S.
SuabHmongRadio, News Report,
Compiled and Translated by Pha Lo, Apr 30, 2004

MILWAUKEE, Wisc. -- Milwuakee is home to approximately 20,000 Hmong, a nomadic tribe that emigrated from Laos in the Vietnam War's aftermath. Here in the United States, Hmong are discovering that their traditional, clan-based system of leadership can benefit U.S.-style grassroots politicking.

Tens of thousands of Hmong left Laos in the 1970s and 1980s after losing a war in which they were covertly recruited to serve alongside the U.S. military. Here in the United States, many were naturalized as U.S. citizens after the Lao-Veterans bill, introduced in 1996, expedited the process for those who had served or been disabled in that war.

Since gaining citizenship, Hmong have begun to exercise their voting rights. This year marked a political rite of passage for Milwaukee-are Hmong who worked on Republican State Sen. Bob Welchs campaign for the U.S. Senate. He won the Republican primary and will compete in general elections.

Wisconsin is home to approximately 40,000 Hmong.

Victor Vaj is a Hmong radio personality in Milwaukee who spent a year working on the State Senators campaign. For Vaj, seeing an older generation of naturalized citizen exercise voting rights fulfills a second purpose. It encourages the U.S.-born generation to use their birthright along with their traditional Hmong upbringing to pursue politics in this country.

http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?articl ...

Thousands of Hmong Refugees from Laos Ready to Arrive
Jack Austin Smith, a Vietnam Veteran and a retired career soldier

Thousands of Hmong Refugees from Laos Ready to Arrive


By Elizabeth Putnam
Wausau Daily Herald
eputnam@wdhprint.com

The clan system remains an integral part of Hmong culture, but the assimilation of the Hmong into American culture is threatening the system's survival.

The Hmong clans
Original 12 Hmong clans
Cha, Hang, Her, Kue, Khang, Lee, Moua, Song, Thao, Vang, Xiong, Yang
The 18 clans of today
Cha, Cheng, Chue, Fang, Hang, Her, Khang, Kong, Kue, Lee, Lor, Moua, Pha, Thao, Vang, Vue, Xiong, Yang
Sources: "Mong Education at the Crossroads," by Paoze Thao and the Hmong Cultural and Resource Center of Minnesota at hmongcenter.org



Within Hmong culture, there are 18 clans, and members of each share the same last name. The clan leaders and members provide each other with social, economic and legal assistance. They help organize social events such as weddings and offer support during difficult times, as when a family member is ill.

"I think that in the future, most of the younger children now might lose that knowledge of the clan, but that's why we need to teach or educate the kids," said Chang Yang, 36, president of the board of the Wausau Area Hmong Mutual Association.

The origin of the clan system is a mystery, according to local Hmong residents and the book "Mong Education at the Crossroads," by Paoze Thao, a professor at California State University in Monterey Bay. Thao uses an alternate spelling of Hmong in his work.

Hmong folklore tells the story of a brother and sister who married and had a child who resembled a seed. They cut it up into 12 pieces and scattered them. The pieces made people, each representing a clan. The 12 clans eventually branched out into 18 clans.

http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/wdhlocal/2917826351880 ...

Thousands of Hmong Refugees from Laos Ready to Arrive in California
Tamara Keith
Fresno, California
08 Apr 2004, 19:28 UTC

Listen to Tamara Keith's report (RealAudio)
Keith report - Download 676k (RealAudio)

In just a few months as many as 3000 new Hmong refugees could arrive in California's Central Valley. For years they've been living in a makeshift camp at a broken-down Buddhist temple in Thailand. The Hmong people aided the United States during the Vietnam War and were forced to flee their home country of Laos as the war ended. Thousands have come to the U.S since the early 1980s, but nearly 15,000 remain on the temple grounds in Thailand. In December the State Department bowed to pressure from Hmong Americans and the Thai government and agreed to let this group of refugees immigrate. Tamara Keith reports on what Fresno community leaders are doing to prepare for the arrival.
Hmong refugee Pai Yang came to this country when she was 10 years old. Now she's the Refugee Resettlement Director for Catholic Charities in Fresno, helping families fill out the forms needed to bring their relatives over from Thailand. For Ms. Yang and others, the upcoming influx of new refugees came as a surprise. She said, "For our community this is like a very great time, a joyful time. To be able to have this opportunity to resettle in this country, to have the opportunity for education, health, etc."

On this morning, Ms. Yang is meeting with Pai-Yang Thao and her husband, who are hoping to sponsor 22 family members now living on the temple grounds in Thailand. The young couple visited the camp in December. They found it surrounded by armed guards, and the people there living with no electricity or running water.

"When we got there we felt very sad that they were living in a bad place and being caged up like animals," she said. "They can't go outside to find food and they're always waiting for us over here to send them money."

Ms. Thao can't wait for her parents, siblings, nieces and nephews to arrive in Fresno. She said that for her the reunion is like a dream come true. But, if past experience is any indication, her family will likely have a hard time adjusting to life here in the valley. Pai Yang says that when she arrived with her mother and sister in the 1980s, they struggled with the language and the culture. In Laos, her mother was a successful businesswoman, but here in California she had to pick tomatoes to make a living. Ms. Yang believes that many Hmong refugees had similar difficulties.
http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/wdhlocal/2917826351880 ...


400 protest opening trade with Laos
Minneapolis Star Tribune (subscription), MN - Apr 14, 2004
... older Hmong military veterans in camouflage fatigues and younger Hmong college students ... for the US government to pressure the communist leaders to address human ...
http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/199810/1 ... /


Duluth's Hmong Families Find Reform Pressure
By Amy Radil
October 15, 1998 RealAudio 2.0 14.4
Part of the MPR Welfare to Work Series

DULUTH'S SMALL HMONG COMMUNITY has been steadily growing over the past ten years. Late last year there were about 175 Hmong households in Duluth on the welfare rolls. But then Minnesota moved in to welfare reform and as they themselves admit, St. Louis County and the City of Duluth Job Training forgot the city's immigrants.

Bea Larson: There was a lot of initial panic and fear and initial orientation sessions had to be redone.
Bea Larson, is an instructor at the Adult Learning Center who teaches English as a second language classes. She soon learned the county had not only sent out letters informing Hmong recipents of the changes in English alone... it was also conducting required orientation sessions exclusively in English.

Larson: Initially people were asked to sign jobs plans that they didn't understand. A number of different folks with limited English had to be re-oriented in ways that they'd understand what they were agreeing to do.
Larson contacted Gwen Updegraaf, a legal aid attorney, who met with a group of Hmong welfare recipients who told her of further problems. The Minnesota Family Investment Program, or MFIP, legislation calls for participants to receive an individualized assessment with a job counselor, who helps them formulate a plan consisting of education, training or active job seeking. Updegraaf says instead, these people had pre-printed job forms instructing them to perform 30 hours of job search each week.

Updegraaf: There was no individualized assessment done with these people, no one sat down with them and determined how much English they spoke. Several people who had problems with their plans complained of disabilities.
Amidst the confusion, Hmong families began leaving Duluth for the Twin Cities. Reasons varied. Some wanted to join relatives, some wanted access to support services in their own language, and many found ready employment and higher wages. When Updegraaf contacted St. Louis County officials with her concerns, they agreed to allow Hmong immigrants to start over in the orientation process, this time with an interpreter, Bobbee Vang. Vang was hired with a grant from the McKnight Foundation to provide special support for Southeast Asians seeking jobs in Duluth.


My interest in Hmong started here in GD

lojasmo (219 posts) Sun May-02-04 01:24 AM
Original message
Police everywhere in duluth WTF


There was a police officer in the lobby of my hotel on canal point, and an oficer in the lobby of Grandma's restaraunt/bar.

In the cold war, reportedly, duluth was number seven on the list of probable nuclear targets.

Any ideas?

Jackpine Radical (1000+ posts) Sun May-02-04 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #25

27. OK--but why Duluth?


It's 150 miles north of the Twin Cities.

social workers and educators say it's been a struggle


FRED DE SAM LAZARO: The twin cities are home to the largest Hmong population in North America, about 60,000 people. They began arriving from Laos and Thai refugee camps in the late '70s, initially placed here by local church-based refugee relief groups. And while this community has plenty to celebrate, social workers and educators say it's been a struggle. Of all the Southeast Asian refugees who fled for the U.S., none was more reluctant or less prepared than the Hmong. Hmong music, artwork, and ceremonies depict an agrarian people who fled once, a century before, from China to almost total isolation in the hills of Laos. Until the mid-20th century, the Hmong did not have a written language or a currency.


http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/vietnam/hmong_5-4.h ...

2001 Hmong Population and Education in
the United States and the World
August 24, 2001
Researched and Collected by Dr. Vang Pobzeb

From 1975 to 1991, more than 500,000 people in Laos fled and became international political refugees in the world because of the legacy of the Vietnam War in Southeast Asia.


The Communist Lao and Vietnamese governments have been exterminating Hmong people in Laos since the end of the Vietnam War in 1975 and are still doing so today, because of Hmong people cooperated with the U.S. government during the Vietnam War. In 2001, witnesses in Laos have reported that many thousands of Communist Vietnamese soldiers are cooperating with the Communist Lao government of the Lao People's Democratic Republic (LPDR) to conduct an ethnic cleansing war, genocide and human rights violations against Hmong people in Laos. Therefore, we appeal to and call upon Hmong American intellectuals, educators and the general public to unify our leadership strategies and efforts in order to save the lives of Hmong people in Laos. We call upon all Hmong people to unify and work together to save the lives of Hmong people. Power politics in the world and global actors are remaining silent on the genocide against Hmong people in Laos because they are concerned with economics and commercial goods for themselves. They do not really care about human rights violations and genocide in Laos and in other parts of the world.

There are about 300,000 Hmong American people in the United States in 2001.


In 2001, there are approximately 80,000 Hmong American people in Minnesota; and 80,000 Hmong Americans in Wisconsin.


About 40,000 Hmong Americans moved from California to Minnesota, Wisconsin, and other states between 1996 and 2001.


About 70,000 Hmong Americans still live in California in 2001.


Many Hmong Americans moved from California to Minnesota and Wisconsin and other states because of the problems of welfare reforms and unemployment problems

http://www.laohumrights.org/2001data.html

Jack Austin Smith, a Vietnam Veteran and a retired career soldier


Writing to an American who was confused about the Hmong people, Jack Austin Smith, a Vietnam Veteran and a retired career soldier, wrote the following in 1996 (quoted from his e-mail to me, with permission):

The war in Vietnam was fought on several fronts and I served in two them. The main American battle ground was in the Southern end of South Vietnam. In order for the North Vietnamese forces to fight us there, it was necessary for their supplies and troops to go through Laos and Cambodia on the Ho Chi Minh Trail, and Laos was controlled by a Pro-Communist Government at that time. Therefore America was not allowed to have any forces on the ground, although we were allowed to bomb and attack North Vietnamese troops with our aerial forces. About 99% of the combat forces on the ground were Hmong irregulars who were persuaded by Americans to forget about being neutral, and to fight the N. Vietnamese regulars (not relatively poorly trained Viet Cong guerrilla forces). We supplied air cover, but every combat trooper knows aircraft can't take and hold ground. We depended on the Hmongs to do this. Without modern arms, without medical help.
After the fall of Saigon we pulled out of Southeast Asia and left the Hmongs to continue the fight without air support. When we left, the Hmong had to fight both the Laotians and the N. Vietnamese. They could not fight tanks, heavy artillery and aircraft with rifles. A great many Hmongs were slaughtered in their villages. Many were slaughtered at airfields where they waited for evacuation planes that never came. A few were able to fight every foot of the way across Laos and cross the Mekong River into refugee camps in Thailand where they were further mistreated by rather corrupt UN and Thai officials. Out of a estimated 3,000,000 prewar Hmong population less than 200,000 made it to safety. One other ill informed or stupid writer said "they were all gone" meaning, I guess, that the combat Hmongs were all dead, they are wrong. Most of the survivors are in Australia, France and here among us.

Now I don't know about those heroes who have never heard a shot fired in anger, but I am embarrassed that my country so mislead these people. The Hmongs gave up literally everything for us: their country, their homes, their peaceful way of life, most of their families, everything that we would cherish. We promised them our continued support and then we bugged out.

You mentioned having relatives who fought in Vietnam and I hope they all survived. However their chances would have been much less if the Hmongs hadn't intercepted over 50% of the N. Vietnamese troops and supplies. If you truly loved your relatives, you should be grateful for the Hmongs' sacrifices.
http://www.jefflindsay.com/hmong.shtml




Attacks on Hmong leaders a puzzle
Hern Mrquez Estrada And Chao Xiong, Star Tribune
May 2, 2004HMONG

The theories for the attacks range from payback for the assassination in Thailand in October 2002 of Pa Kao Her, a Hmong resistance leader, to clan rivalries and an internal squabble in Vang's organization, according to community leaders.

Community leaders say Her, decades ago, aligned himself with other clans to form political opposition to the general. Her's killer has never been discovered. But in some circles and on the Internet, people speculate about whether the general or his supporters might have been involved.

As a result, Young does not discount the assassination payback theory, even though he says the general was not involved. "In my mind that is a possibility," Young said.

He added that the violence, particularly the arson attack on the general's son and the drive-by shooting, also could be part of a clan feud aimed at the Vangs and not at the general in particular.

"We are hearing the same things you are," Thomalla said. "There is so much chatter going on. We are looking at a lot of different things."

Critical speech

Some community leaders believe the trigger of the current unrest might have been a speech the general gave on Nov. 26 at the Prom Center in Oakdale.

more
http://www.startribune.com/stories/1557/4753340.html


LaosNam Thuen II Dam Attacked James Wolfensohn Fuels Genocide, War Crimes
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
5. Martin Luther King: Beyond Vietnam -- A Time to Break Silence
"True compassion is more than flinging a coin to a beggar. It comes to see that an edifice which produces beggars needs restructuring."


Listen here to King's speech

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkatimetobrea...



Now, it should be incandescently clear that no one who has any concern for the integrity and life of America today can ignore the present war.


As that noble bard of yesterday, James Russell Lowell, eloquently stated:

Once to every man and nation comes a moment to decide,

In the strife of Truth and Falsehood, for the good or evil side;

Some great cause, God's new Messiah offering each the bloom or blight,

And the choice goes by forever 'twixt that darkness and that light.

Though the cause of evil prosper, yet 'tis truth alone is strong

Though her portions be the scaffold, and upon the throne be wrong

Yet that scaffold sways the future, and behind the dim unknown

Standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above his own.


And if we will only make the right choice, we will be able to transform this pending cosmic elegy into a creative psalm of peace.

If we will make the right choice, we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our world into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood.

If we will but make the right choice, we will be able to speed up the day, all over America and all over the world, when justice will roll down like waters, and righteousness like a mighty stream.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
6. WE CAN ONLY SCATTER SEEDS eccles12, emcguffie
Edited on Sun Aug-20-06 11:53 AM by seemslikeadream

Pearls Before Swine
Balaklava



There was a man came to our town
He wore a suit of red
He memorized with secret eyes
That he hid away in his head

He had a scar upon his head
Where there used to be a crown
But he sold his robes at the five and ten
And lived on the edge of town
That fall he showed us a magic leaf
That he could change to snow
He bought it partly with his grief
And partly with his soul
He scattered seeds in the alley way
He never seemed to rest
And when you went to ask him why
All he ever said was yes
He made a swan from waving grass
Beside a crystal shore
And a sunrise spun from broken glass
And many things wondrous more
But then his hands began to burn
When he heard the news from the war
When we cannot find each other he said
Then we can't run away any more
Next day with tears along his face
He passed us on the hill
No one thought to ask him to stay
And he knows that we never will
There was a man came to our town
He wore a suit of red
He memorized with secret eyes
That he hid away in his head

Tom Rapp

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