Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

RISKING THEIR LIVES for democracy – MEXICANS Challenge STOLEN Election

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 09:55 AM
Original message
RISKING THEIR LIVES for democracy – MEXICANS Challenge STOLEN Election
Edited on Sun Aug-20-06 10:22 AM by autorank

DEMAND A RE-COUNT OF ALL MEXICAN BALLOTS
CALL YOUR REPRESENTATIVE AND TELL HIM/HER TO SUPPORT DEMOCRACY IN THIS HEMISPHERE.


(By all means, check narconews.com regularly for the truth on Mexico. www.narconews.com )

There were three million person plus demonstrations in Mexico city to support Andrés Manuel López Obrador and the Party of the Democratic Revolution (PRD). . You see they are more than convinced that they won. Even before the recount, there was the supposedly independent election institute’s goof with the initial call of the election. They claimed that Calderon, the rightist, had won narrowly. Someone in the crowd pointed out that 2.5 million (as in 2,500,000 votes) were not accounted for. “Oops” said the commission, “we’ll count those right away. They did and the result did not change. Bull shit!

In 1968, the Mexican government deliberately ordered troops to surround 5000 peaceful demonstrators in a city square and open fire! The perpetrator, Luis Echeverria admitted as much in 1977. Today’s effort is filled equal fears of irrational behavior by the government of Fox (who has already ordered a helicopter assault on sleeping teachers in Oaxaca!

THE MEXICAN DEMONSTATORS ARE RISKING THEIR LIVES FOR DEMOCRACY..



Here’s what millions of Mexican citizens face in
the streets. Mexico LEADS THE WORLD in walking the
walk in the fight for true democracy. VIVA MEXICO!!!
(Photo: NarcoNews)


There were plenty of problems reported during the election, not on Corporate Media, but in Narco News and the Mexico Press (La Journada mostly for Spanish speakers). More on that later. Here are the results summarized by Al Giordano, Editor of The Narco News Bulletin

Giordano concludes that the main forms of fraud were taqueo, ballot box stuffing, and saqueo, looting ballots that are likely against your candidate. Calderon’s folks did a whole lot of this according to the 9% recount. Multiply what you see below by 11, presuming the 9% was a representative sample. Maybe its more.

With Less than 9 Percent of Precincts Recounted, More than 126,000 Votes Are Found to Have Been Disappeared or Illegally Fabricated

• In 3,074 precincts (29 percent of those recounted), 45,890 illegal votes, above the number of voters who cast ballots in each polling place, were found stuffed inside the ballot boxes (an average of 15 for each of these precincts, primarily in strongholds of the National Action Party, known as the PAN, of President Vicente Fox and his candidate, Felipe Calderón).

• In 4,368 precincts (41 percent of those recounted), 80,392 ballots of citizens who did vote are missing (an average of 18 votes in each of these precincts).

• Together, these 7,442 precincts contain about 70 percent of the ballots recounted. The total amount of ballots either stolen or forged adds up to 126,282 votes altered.

• If the recount results of these 10,679 precincts (8.2 percent of the nation’s 130,000 polling places) are projected nationwide, it would mean that more than 1.5 million votes were either stolen or stuffed in an election that the first official count claimed was won by Calderon by only 243,000 votes.

• Among the findings of this very limited partial recount are that in 3,079 precincts where the PAN party is strong and where, in many cases, the Democratic Revolution Party (PRD) of candidate Andrés Manuel López Obrador did not count with election night poll watchers, one or more of three things occurred: Either the Federal Electoral Institute (IFE, in its Spanish initials) illegally provided more ballots than there are voters in those precincts, or the PAN party stole those extra ballots, or ballots were forged.



The Elected President of Mexico.
Andrés Manuel López Obrador


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. Kicked
and recommended.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Greeby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. Thinking of the Gore pic at the bottom
I wonder if he conceded because the neocons threatened to do exactly what is about to happen in mexico: make the blood run in the streets
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rzemanfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Of course, he even said so recently. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. You know, I just thought of that pic too...
I was thinking, Al's pointing to Obrador saying, "Here's what you can do when the people surround you with support. Viva Mexico, support Obrador" or something along those lines.

I don't think they threatened Gore, I just think he was th only one around who really wanted to rumble. I ran into someone who was part of his support (nonspecific here) and the guy bad mouthed the effort. I really lit into him, which is not typical of my behavior in about, lets say the last 20 years ;). It typified what happened. Bunch of weak sisters. Bush had Baker, who did Gore have...banging heads. Nobody stood up or, in Tennessee terms, "stood tall."

Where was this guy when we needed him?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. What happened to PRESIDENT Al Gore is the lesson of our lifetime.
WE DON'T EXPECT ANYONE TO DO THE WORK FOR US.

(why am I yelling)

lol
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. but every movement needs a leader. you see amlo standing there
right in front and speaking the truth of what is happening and calling on his people to resist.

i dont know what would have happened here if a gore or kerry refused to stand down and had called on their supporters to stand with them.

gore trusted in the system, only to find the scotus empty of justice. he did fight until the ruling.
fool me once.

kerry lay down and gave up without even challenging the obvious corruption in ohio or looking twice at the rest of the country.
fool me twice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #17
26. Fool me twice, indeed.
I'm ashamed to say, I wasn't paying much attention in the run up to the theft of Gore's election. But when that happened, we had the news on around the clock. It was like a never ending horror movie. I still feel like crying, simply remembering.

They stole it right in front of our friggin eyes.

Later, we worked like hell for Kerry. And I kept asking the MoveOn folks and other semi-insiders, I kept obnoxiously asking them what we were doing to prevent another theft.

And, they told me, it's cool, we have it covered.

IT WASN'T COOL. They had NADA covered. We still know what happened in Ohio. And, in many places.

And, I don't care who slams me for saying this, Kerry just wasn't interested enough. Teresa, yes, John, no.

And, that's what I mean. It wasn't his to concede. IT WAS OUR ELECTION. And if we're ever going to have another one, WE have to fight for it instead of expecting rich people to do the right thing.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #26
46. That is what I was saying before Nov 04 in MoveOns forums
They did nothing about the votescam despite a large number of us screaming the warnings in the forums over there to do something about it before rather than after the theft! Over here I made a comment about Kerry or Bush a Skull & Boner wins either way and got censored for it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #17
27. Obrador will not be fooled this time. He knows he's dealing w/tyrants!
The same tyrants we have here. Gore did get the point, however, as he demonstrated in DC on 1/16/06
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0601/S00122.htm No mroe restraint. He just calls the WH operation what it is, tyranny.

It's recursive, they're acting, we'll act, they'll do some more...it's got to work. These idiots are out to destroy everything they can, maybe not by intent but certainly by result.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. They're not out to destroy it
They are out to control it. Forever.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. Exactly. And that's why I think Mark Crispin Miller is a genius.
He pegged them, and he pegged them early. They are suicidal. They believe they are out to control but they destroy.

Mark, if you're reading, thanks. :)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
motocicleta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
43. I won't give up easily next time
I don't expect anyone to do the work for me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. I would say that is putting it mildly
I would not be surprised if the BFEE threatened to kill his family.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
3. I think this is an IMPORTANT movement to take back the government
in Mexico. I applaud the courageous people who are fighting the corruption.

But I suggest we work on taking our OWN country back first. If we work here and they work there, added to the changes is other South American and Central American countries, we might just be able to defeat these BFEE and their murderous allies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. 1/2 way is good enough...but think about this...
This is the first time in a long time that a home grown democracy movement has shown real guts in the face of ominous odds to fight for election rights, voting rights, human rights...the Ukrainian effort, which I supported, was supported by us and the Europeans. Who do the Mexicans have.

My strong belief is that they're doing what we should have done and should do in the future. They're a model for us. That's a stretch for some of us but it's the truth. They're going to get the major smack down by the thugs (government) at some point and they know it.

Just like the civil rights movement inspired a progressive movement nationwide, I think Mexico can do it for a democracy movement world wide, but here first.

Nonetheless, I respect and understand your position. Just keep and eye on it. It's just as important, more actually, than Iraq politically (Iraq is much more important in terms of loss of life and injuries, though).

We can learn something from Medico.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. I agree we can learn something from these people. Like how to quit
Edited on Sun Aug-20-06 10:37 AM by acmavm
cowering in our corners and finally standing up to the criminal cabal that's caused so much misery and death in all parts of this planet.

We have our nasty little fingers in the Mexican election fiasco, don't ever doubt that for a minute. Whereas the Mexican government has historically been one elected by fraud and deception, the bush** administration had 'advisors' down there to help throw this one in particular.

I can't remember the groups name, maybe someone else can. Otherwise I'll have to go Googling.

edit: Here it is...

<snip>

All the target nations had one thing in common besides a lack of terrorists: each had a left-leaning presidential candidate or a left-leaning president in office. In Venezuela, President Hugo Chavez, bete noir of the Bush Administration, was facing a recall vote. In Mexico, the anti-Bush Mayor of Mexico City, Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador was (and is) leading the race for the Presidency.

Most provocative is the contractor to whom this no-bid contract was handed: ChoicePoint Inc. of Alpharetta, Georgia. ChoicePoint is the database company that created a list for Governor Jeb Bush of Florida of voters to scrub from voter rolls before the 2000 election. ChoicePoint's list (94,000 names in all) contained few felons. Most of those on the list were guilty of no crime except Voting While Black. The disenfranchisement of these voters cost Al Gore the presidency.

Having chosen our President for us, our President's men chose ChoicePoint for this sweet War on Terror database gathering. The use of the Venezuela's and Mexico's voter registry files to fight terror is not visible -- but the use of the lists to manipulate elections is as obvious as the make-up on Katherine Harris' cheeks.

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/06/07/con06284.ht...

-MORE-


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks, autorank, for keeping this front, center. Recommended : #3 NT
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
23. You welcome. Thank you for spreading the word...n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
5. You Go, my brothers and sisters!
LOL! Andale, tierra linda.

:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
24. If they're Ukrainian, * supports them; Mexicans for democracy, no way...
They are our brothers and sisters and they are not asking for one single thing. Nobody is saying, help us or why isn't the American left (???) doing anything. They're just doing it themselves. They have a mature political tradition on the left and think they can make this work. Our support in incremental and that would be a smart move. We can learn a lot. After the election institute declared Calderon the "winner", the demonstrations started in the square. The election tribunal made some negative noises, and Calderon said, fine, we'll just demonstrate there. He didn't think about or call a consultant, he just did it. Then they've upped the ante again. They will enter Congress to protest and attend en masse the "inauguration" of the pretender Calderon. Don't know how it will come out but at least they are taking it to the crooks.

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. This is about the most beautiful thing I've ever seen.
I don't know if they will succeed but it just makes me so happy that they are not standing down.

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
converted_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
8. K&R- I wish the people of America would take a lesson from our
neighbors to the south.. Such courage, good for them..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #8
20. That's the whole point, thanks!!! We're them, they're us...we can win...
...help them and that will turn around to our great favor.

They have no major power, none, not one in Europe or North America. We're always invading these tiny states when things don't go our way. Now the Mexican people put it on the line for democracy.

I heard somebody say, "Well if Mexico just had an honest government, many of their problems would go away." My response: IF WE JUST HAD AN HONEST ELECTION, WE'D HAVE AN HONEST GOVERNMENT AND WE COULD DEAL WITH HONEST MEXICAN OFFICIALS, INSTEAD OF AGITATING FOR THE RIGHT WING TYRANTS LIKE * and company.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
9. VIVA MEXICO!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
12. Thanks for keeping us posted on this important news from Mexico
They are an inspiration and hopefully, we are learning from them...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Mexico's where it's at for all of us right now, imho...
I pray that the government does not descend to the level it did pre-Olympics 1968. Remember our guy who raised his fist when he got the medal and then got sent packing...he was protesting 300 deaths by the Mexican government, which also sponsored the games. I guess that was there idea of a warm up with people demonstrating under the assumption that their country was a democracy. Funny how that works.

8500' huh ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
14. I am fearful that * will send in disruptors to instigate trouble to send a
message that the candidates he places must be accepted or anarchy will loom. We must watch the developments here closely. Thanks for the continual coverage Auto. As usual:

:yourock:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
16. BE STRONG MEXICANS! Give me liberty or give me death!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dtotire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
18. Challenging Election
When elections are this close, what is needed would be a runoff election, by the two front runners, and their constitution should be amended to require this. This should also be the rule for elections in this country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. There's a certain logic to that in this case...and their law allows that.
Edited on Sun Aug-20-06 10:42 AM by autorank
The electoral court can order a re-vote...there is clearly corruption, a great deal against PRD as the figures show. The other side can say, how do you really know who won (which would be b.s. but...) so the logical path would be a full recount for the TRUTH and then a new vote. Mexican public opinion opposed the recount on 7/12 and by 7/20, it has changed to favor it...after they got the news of what happened. There are some papers there that actually report. Re voting makes sense. An analyst who spin it out logically said as much. We're beyond logic now. It's a high stakes poker game.

Did you know that Fox tried to disqualify Obrador from running at all. He trumped up some charge that's never brought because of some road that Obrador did or did not build. It was something like that, a highly technical violation...but, if charged and convicted, Obrador would have been off the ballot. That tells a powerful story. They began this well before the election, the tear down, the diversions.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #18
49. We can't do nothing until the Consitution is amended....
The Mexicans have realized that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kajsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
21. Good for them!!
The Mexican voters are showing us what happens when the
people unite and demand to be heard!

Viva Obrador!

:applause:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
25. Reference the statement:
THE MEXICAN DEMONSTATORS ARE RISKING THEIR LIVES FOR DEMOCRACY..


At least Mexican citizens are willing to do just that. Where are the "We the People" representatives in this country? Why are there not demostrations at the Capitol and White House over the Emporer's crimes?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
31. Kick & Rec ... This is exactly what needs to happen
in this country.

I'm not advocating anarchy and violence, but a REAL stand against the corruption and crimes being perpetrated on our Nation and our Constitution.

Where is the outrage HERE, in THIS country?

I'll mention it first in this very message. If noone is willing to organize such a march on Washington, I'll begin the effort RIGHT HERE, RIGHT FUCKING NOW! I am personally challenging every person who believes in the Constitution of the United States of America to join me on the Mall in Washington, DC on November, 3, 2006.

That is the Friday before the election. We can make our statement and then go back home to vote on the Tuesday following.

I'm FUCKING SERIOUS. Start making your flight and hotel arrangements.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
32. Kick
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
33. thanks autorank for the update
Leftist presidential contender Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador continues pressing for a full recount of the July 2 election, which official results have him narrowly losing to conservative Felipe Calderon.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stargazer99 Donating Member (943 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
34. Mexico is just a reflection of what occured in California
When Bush was re-elected a group of demostrators against Bush's re-election had a tank like vehicle stand in front of them....intimidation..you never hear about that...Joe Six Pac has been manipulated and the present administration knows they can continue to manipulate the general public because so many are asleep at the switch.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
35. This is your country on Bush, and this is what it could have been on Gore
Pretty clear that things would have been dramatically different if we had taken to the streets like they are doing in Mexico and insisted that all the votes be counted.

Hope they learned the lesson by watching us in 2000 and stick it out. If they do, hopefully we will learn something from them about what it takes to preserve a democracy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jwdeviant Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
36. So THIS is why the repubs are so against immigration.
Can't let THEM bring those dangerous ideas of standing up for Democracy HERE of all places.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
37. Applauding Obrador & the Mexican patriots. Thanks for posting, autorank.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tinfoil tiaras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
38. K&R!!
Now if only Americans would have raised this much hell in 2000.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. The US Corp Media is too busy with
Bullshit to cover what is actually important to our country. Mexico is long overdue for Revolution...again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
40. k&r
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
41. Party of the Democratic Revolution......OOOoooo......I want one of those!
:bounce:


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
42. Que viva la lucha!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
44. K&R.(nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lgn19087 Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
45. Don't get your hopes up
do you really think BushCo would allow a hostile government on the south flank? The Canadians to the north were pissing him off, and, convienently enough, conservatives get elected! Whether it will be more fraud, intimidation, or outright military force, there is no way Bush loses this one. If you think it's easy for Bush to rig elections in America, thinkn how easy it would be to rig them in Mexico
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. Exactly. It really is as simple as that.
F*cking Totalitarianism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 03:13 AM
Response to Reply #45
48. Not so fast
I agree with you up to a point, at least in that the Bush team is highly motivated to not allow Obrador to prevail in Mexico. However the way I see it he may not be able to prevent it.

Here's his problem. He CANNOT interfere there in any public way. He cannot send American troops, or anything else really. He can press the existing government officials there very hard indeed but if an enormous Mexican crowd storms the government offices there those officials will be FORCED to back down. Bush would be presented with a fait accompli, the deed will be already done.

In such a case I don't think Bush could do much of anything except perhaps refuse to recognize the new government. Doing so would be idiotic though; our economy NEEDS Mexico much more than most people think. I think Bush would be forced to retreat, accept, and try to work even harder behind the scenes to undermine Obrador or instigate a coup.

I hope that Obrador realizes that even if he prevails somehow, that gaining the presidency is not the end of the fight. It's just the beginning.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lgn19087 Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. He might not be able to interfere publicly
but that doesn't prevent him from doing things covertly. Remember when the Russians tried to poison the Ukranian guy? That was just a botched operation, but Bush is serious enough about this to do something durastic like that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oc2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
50. God help them, The government there is completely corrupt.

The election was obviosly rigged or that the least tampered. Then the people must fight for a re-vote or chaos.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
51. The HUGH difference here?
The PRESS is covering it. A movement cannot become a movement if people aren't aware of it. Although we backed down too easily, we DID take to the streets in Washington. How is it our fault if the only thing the world saw was an ANSWER rally to Free Mumia?

We need to be prepared to do this here when the GOP "wins" again in November. They've been trying to get us ready by saying the gerrymandering of districts makes it virtually impossible to defeat an incumbant. I think that will be their official excuse. Or the coming "terra" attack or foiled plot (they're probably doing a cost/benefit analysis as I type this!) will make us all vote for the GOP in a rush of voting at the close of polling, which won't be counted until 3:00 am. But get your placards ready. They don't plan on letting US win, either.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
52. kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
53. The last steal we'll ever hear about ...better learn all we can
Edited on Mon Aug-21-06 09:15 AM by robbedvoter
As the system perfects itself the "irregularities" will be drowned more effective in terra alerts ans shark attacks. So, remember this last echo of the reality.
And BTW, I was in the streets in NYC demanding to "COUNT EVERY VOTE". Jesse Jackson came to speak - but Giuliani silenced his loudspeaker. Literally. So he ended speaking up to reporters. Who didn't cover anything.
Then Gore said to go home - it's just a legal matter. So, next time I went there were only 3 of us.
Like in 2004, after Kerry conceded. 5 of us in Times Squares with signs.
On the bright side, had we been millions, press might have reported "tens" and the results would have been the same.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
54. The difference: Their Leader (Obrador) is supporting them
Ours quit, simple as that.

The situation is identical with that one exception. The Democratic "leaders" immediately gave in, more than that they told us to go home and shut up, there's nothing we can do.

You can't expect people to fight and possibly die for a leader that refuses to lead. First Gore and then Kerry, who's next?

If you think the the tyrants won't do it again, you're a fool. The message has been sent and it is this;

"You are on our own, you will get no help from us (the ruling class of either party)." If we want to restore our representation, we will have to force it, there is no other way.

The cabal is betting that we are too frightened, too lazy, too disinterested, to fight for our freedom. So far they are right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Oct 01st 2014, 06:35 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC