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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 08:26 AM
Original message
Do people REALLY want to change their lifestyles?
The answer to that answers more questions than even we are consciously able to think about at this time.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
1. You mean give up their SUVs and Hummers and lavish 8,000 sq ft
...homes? For the top 20% of America's wage earners, no way Jose! But, as for the rest of the middle and lower classes, we had better change our expectations of get trampled.
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patricia92243 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
2. Define "change my lifestyle." n/t
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Depends. Each person is different.
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pooja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
4. It costs money to change lifestyles. I desperately need a new
car. I drive an old 95 jeep wrangler, no air, in Florida, at about 16 maybe mi/gal. I would love to buy a hybrid car... its not in the budget. I have to keep patching the one I have got. But on the plus side, i drive an avg on 8mi on my commute. My gas bill for one week is about $15.oo. I use about 5gal. a week. I may work for peanuts, but I also drive for peanuts. My husband on the other hand, is the one who must commute longer distances... and costs a fortune every week. If I were to upgrade my job status... I would upgrade the distance and the car... and I would probably avg. the same pay in the end.
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jilln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. Some changes cost money, some don't.
Can you carpool, take a bus, ride your bike, telecommute? Can you reduce or eliminate meat consumption, eat more locally produced fruits and vegetables, switch to wind generated electricity? If you have a yard, can you xeriscape instead of watering? Can you replace lightbulbs for compact fluorescents, switch to nontoxic cleaning supplies and run your air conditioner/heater less? Can you buy less stuff?

Not sure that the original poster was focused just on energy, but there are things everyone can do that cost little or are free, like reducing meat. Maybe in your situation not driving is not possible, but there are probably other things you could do to help make up for that.
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pooja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. I live in a 2 bedroom apt with my husband and step-son. We are
never home (work you know). So our electric bill is close to $60.00 a month... and that's due in large part to laundry and showers... No, I don't own a home or a yard. I have thought about buying a bike, but really don't want to get killed on a 4 lane highway (also, I live in Florida.. I really don't think that I would pass the smell test once I reached destination). I don't buy anything. I don't have the money. Even the little one's stuff is hand-me-downs from his cousins. I buy food. Which normally consists of water, bread, cheese, maybe a little lunch meat, eggs, chicken, cereal, maybe a cleaning product if needed. I don't go out to eat at restraunts. I am litterally one day away from being on the street. I am telling you, I don't have the money to buy a Yaris. Ok, wait, the biggest luxury I bought was in fact a pair of running sneakers. I do love to run and the old one's were about 3yrs old... Way overdue. The new one's are marvelous on my ankles... Being poor has made me cheap and as efficient as I can be at the momment.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Get a Yaris
it's cheap and fuel efficient (I think around 40 mpg).

I've found that it takes LESS money to live a more sustainable lifestyle. I became unemployed recently and had to cut out all the extras-which makes for less of a drain on the planet. I don't go out or go shopping anymore, so I save on fuel. I switched to those compact fluorescent bulbs to save on my electrical bills. I don't eat beef, which is expensive and a major contributor to global warming. I'll be shopping at Goodwill for clothing and shoes from now on, so I won't be draining resources there. I switched to all organic non processed foods, which are more expensive but since I can't afford medical care and have several chronic illnesses I consider it a wise investment. Poverty CAN inspire one to lead a more sustainable lifestyle.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #13
42. ~smile
My first thought when I read the OP was "Oh hell, I don't even buy those fluorescent bulbs. How are we going to get people to change when even I haven't done something as simple as that?" You are my inspiration, Lorien! I will take inventory on how many bulbs I need & start buying a few at a time.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #42
50. For your lamps, checkHome Depot or Costco.
I bought a package of 6 of the coil style 75 watt equivalent bulbs for ust under $10.00 at Costco a few months ago, and I just saw the same thing for the same price at Home Depot last week.

I had tried them quite a few years ago and gave up because they just weren't bright enough for me to be able to read at night, but the newer onesare now available in higher wattage and they're working out fine.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. Thanks!!
:thumbsup:
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
5. "want" has nothing to do with it . . .
people MUST change their lifestyles if life on the planet is to survive . . .
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jerry611 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. So you want people to just quit their jobs or stop going to school?
This isn't 1955 where the majority of kids live within a few blocks of school and can walk. Most kids live many miles away. Plus parents these days, thanks to the media, are in total fear of their kid getting kidnapped by a sex offender, so they drive their kids to school in the SUVs.

And people don't walk to work. I know several that have to communte 50 miles a day to and from work.

I am telling you right now that people are not going to turn their lives upside down. We are going to need develop technology to save this planet. We need more fuel efficient cars. And they need to be cheaper in price.
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. How does fuel efficiency solve anything?
All it will do is make people drive all those miles more frequently. Not only that, it will also allow them to drive even further if told to. Also, more people in general will drive. I just don't get how that'll help.

Develop technology to save the planet? Isn't it technology that has put us in a mess in the first place? The only thing a technological solution will do is create the need for even more technology to solve more problems.

As you said, nobody, or at least very few people(and not just Americans), will be turning their lives upside down. This is why we're screwed.
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jilln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. I pretty much agree with you...
Edited on Sun Aug-20-06 10:19 AM by jilln
There's not one solution for everybody, but I see my coworkers buying houses an hour from work because they can get bigger places, then spending their lives in the car. Several married couples at my job each drive their own car every day so they can go out to lunch separately!

I can't even get them to stop using styrofoam and use ceramic mugs for their coffee. They always say, "I don't know who used the mug before or if it was cleaned right!" So I ask if they bring their own dishes to restaurants, and then they tell me I have a point... then reach for the styrofoam again. Styrofoam should have been outlawed for cups YEARS ago.

It's not always possible, but we have to start making choices that take the Earth into account. And as the most self-righteous country in the world, I don't see us doing that until absolutely forced.
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Kickoutthejams23 Donating Member (354 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. So it's back to horses and wood burning stoves?
If you want pollution add 300 million horses to america. If everyone cut out their electricity and just burnt wood I wonder if the air quality would improve. (I'm guessing no). We are not screwed.


I remember going to school in the seventies and being told how we will run out of food by 1985 (In government pamphlets no less)











The temperature will get hotter, oceans will rise and people will adjust. Humans are very adaptable creatures able to live a a multitude of climes. Polar bears may go the way of the Woolly Mammoth but humans will survive. Chances are we will be running our cars on bio-fuels 20 years from now and people will wonder what all the fuss was about. Thanks by the way to science and technology.
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The Anti-Neo Con Donating Member (402 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Wow, interesting cartoon.
Little did they know in 1996, America would still be a great place that was experiencing a very strong economy.

That cartoon more resembles 2006 with the current state of our economy.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. Good post.
The "technology is the source of all evil" people are nothing more then primitivist romanticists who dreram of a pre-industrial utopia that never existed.
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #23
47. Can I play too?
The "technology is our savior" people are nothing more than controlling and manipulative futurists who dream of a world where everyone can have everything.

Why are people so defensive about technology? Why the name calling? Technology is so ingrained in our world that do to away with it would be murder. It's not going anywhere. Calm down.
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #16
46. We would have run out of food
Or at least not had enough. But thanks to agricultural technology, we have more than we need.

Obviously if you add 300 million horses and wood burning stoves it's going to cause problems. That's why there are too many people. However, you can't just let most of them die, so of course we're going to have more technological solutions, because that's the only way we won't have billions of deaths in a short amount of time. So don't get so defensive about technology, it's not going anywhere.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. Oh great, here come the luddites...
:eyes:
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. Do you believe global warming is real? n/t
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #29
39. Yes, your point?
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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. clearly, technology can both hurt and help
Here's a great example of how technology helps solve environmental problems:

Think about that big hole in the ozone layer over the Antarctic. If you go to http://www.theozonehole.com you can see an illustrated explanation of the nature and extent of the problem. But how do we know anything about the ozone layer? Technology. We need some pretty advanced detectors to measure the composition of the atmosphere a dozen miles above the South Pole.

Deeper within that site, at http://www.theozonehole.com/recovery.htm , you can read about the results of a computer model (again, technology) that tell us how it's going to take until 2068 for full ozone recovery instead of 2050 as previously believed. The predictive power of these technological models helps us to understand the extent of the problem and informs us about what types of things we can do to save the planet.

One of the stories of the last 300 years has been of the negative impact human inventions have had on the planet. I don't see any reason why the story of the next 300 years can't be how, with a better understanding of our impact on the environment, we used our creativity and technical skill to clean up our mess.
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #26
49. That's where we disagree
Edited on Mon Aug-21-06 08:30 AM by NoMoreMyths
Which is fine. You think we can clean up the mess we made with technology by using technology. I don't. I think we'll just make bigger problems. You'll win the argument, because we're not going to stop using technology at this point. We can't. It's practically part of us. A whole lot of people around the world would die if we stopped.

"But how do we know anything about the ozone layer?"

Why do we need to know anything about the ozone layer? Life existed for a long time without knowing a thing about it. But since we're at the point where we might as well know everything about everything, I guess that would be why.
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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #49
53. Why do we need to know anything about the ozone layer?
The ozone layer is one of the features of our planet that makes it habitable. If we're going to have a healthy planet, we need to understand how our actions affect the long-term ability of Earth to support life. Before we knew about the hole in the ozone layer, we dumped CFCs into the air limitlessly. Now that we understand how CFCs break down ozone molecules, we've enacted laws that prohibit the release of such chemicals. And according to the site I posted, the ozone layer should return to full strength in the not-too-distant future. Without knowledge of our planet, how can we possibly expect to minimize our impact?
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
27. First off, don't put words into my mouth.
Edited on Sun Aug-20-06 03:06 PM by HypnoToad
Second, I walk to work.

Third, I am talking about xbox, viceo games, tv, ipod. (if you've read my messages, there is a common theme amongst them all. Since the middle class and these perks are being eliminated, the only thing left is for us to support and entertain each other.)


"I am telling you right now that people are not going to turn their lives upside down."

Which means that people have already lost and they should shut up and stop griping about what's going on. It's gonna change whether you like it or not. How will you adapt then? What will you do since you refuse to change?


And, hell no, I don't want people to stop getting educated. I want America to take care of its own instead of bleeding jobs that people are studying for. How do YOU justify spending tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of dollars in a field that's going to get you nowhere in the end?
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
6. Meaningless Question: Its Not What People WANT that Counts
That question is about as meaningless as asking if prehistoric man WANTED to change his lifestyle when an Iceage came or the game ran out. What makes you think people always have a choice?
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
30. And people call ME a doomsayer!
:spray:

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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
37. No, but presumably if we are to avoid certain environmental problems
there will have to be an element of voluntary change on the part of people.

The trick is to make the changes palatable, even desirable.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #37
45. Excellent bumper sticker!
Looks like it's time to go shopping! ;)
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
8. First they have to admit how much their lifestyle
Edited on Sun Aug-20-06 09:02 AM by meganmonkey
contributes to the problem. It isn't simply about becoming 'better' consumers, it is about becoming LESS of a consumer.

People don't want to think about, for example, the fact that millions in Congo are dying partly so we can get coltan needed for our cellphones. Why worry our pretty little minds? It's so far away, and I NEED my cellphone, right? And no, I am not playing holier-than-thou - I drive a car and own a cell phone and blah blah blah - but the more I learn the more I realize that our consumption is a HUGE problem all over the world, and we are ultimately responsible. Whether it is coltan, diamonds, oil, water, or other resources, our consumption and throw-away mentality is hurting people all over the world. Not a happy thought, but the truth hurts. And it is hurting civilians in other parts of the world while we stay relatively comfortable.

I don't know what sparked your OP, but I think you are asking a very important question, and we need to think about the answer. So thanks.

Peace,

--mm
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Baclava Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
9. I'd kill to keep my Tivo
Just try and take it...
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
31. I don't give a damn about your Tivo.
Still, it's nice to see peoples' true colors showing up when asked real questions.

:think:
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
11. Everyone wants the world to be a better place,
but few are willing to make any personal sacrifice to make it happen. It's easy to get overwhelmed with the whole hopelessness of it all. The bumpersticker is right: Think Globally, Act Locally
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
32. Bingo. Thank you for responding!
:pals:

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CanSocDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
15. I'd have to wonder...

..if we're ready to give up the myths that give 'substance' to our lifestyle.

For example, is 'material wealth' worth working for....????

Should we be raising fellow creatures to be used as food ??

Does religion have it right ???

Does science have it right ????

Is 'man' the most advanced species on the planet ????


I haven't made a lot of new friends since I began expressing these doubts, if that answers your question.



.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. ...
Most people won't question any system that contributes to or elevates their comfort. A character in a movie stated the sad truth: "Most people only do the right thing when it's the easy thing to do."

:hi:
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #15
33. Answers
..if we're ready to give up the myths that give 'substance' to our lifestyle.

We'll know once the economy crashes.

For example, is 'material wealth' worth working for....????

Only as long as you think it of value. Maybe people should be treating people with more value than a tv set.

Should we be raising fellow creatures to be used as food ??

I don't like to starve. And I have yet to hear a chicken tell me "Please don't swipe that axe across my neck, use my feathers for a pillow, than cook my gizzard for lunch."

Does religion have it right ???

Every religion has its own good points and bad. Every religion contradicts itself. Everyone should look at the various religions, find out the commonalities, and actually do what the good and wholesome parts are. Jesus would approve. The minister might not (when's the last time, for example, a minister or preacher talked of a Biblical verse that spoke against the greedy and avaricious, and there are a few to choose from)?

Does science have it right ????

See 'religion' above. In ways, it is no better than religion.

Is 'man' the most advanced species on the planet ????

Technologically, yes. Morality, I doubt it. Unless you mean being two-faced about morality, then we're readily at the top of the heap.

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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
18. must be a new doomsday video for sale, I guess the sales for the

peak oil one have "peaked"?
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
34. I don't mean just peak oil, but if you think I'm a doomsayer, you're
reading the wrong person's posts.

Life is about change and acclimatizing to it.

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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
19. I would go for better mass transportation and would change my life
to use it - I love being in big cities where you can get around without a car. We need more of that, and to change the suburbs - allow economic activity there - corner stores you can walk to and that sort of thing - we'd all be thinner from walking and we wouldn't be polluting and using fuel unnecessarily.

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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
24. kick
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
25. Not their own; everybody else's
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Except I am slowly working to change my lifestyle. Otherwise
I'd be a hypocrite.

Nice try, but you'll have to do better than that.
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. Maybe later
Got a bus to catch.

Good luck on the avoiding hypocrisy thing, it's a tough job.
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MoseyWalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
35. I do in some ways
I don't think I will much longer be able to work in my profession. Every job seems to get more stressful until the top will blow someday. My meds were recently changed, and though they are cheap, they are not working very well. I need a more peaceful lifestyle. For many years, I have worked in the social services field trying to "help" people, but feel as though I have nothing at all to show for it except for a lot of either angry or don't give a damn people. I never expected much, but it's wearing on me now to the point that I question my ability. My tremors are becoming a little bit worse every day, so I've taken to self medicating with alcohol because nothing else works.

Sorry for the pity post - I have just been thinking very long and hard lately about these things.

So. Yes. I for one would like to change my lifestyle, and if that means less "goodies", then I can certainly live with that. I don't need or want much anyway, so I'm lucky that way.

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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
38. YES! People are miserable. They want a sense of Community & Purpose
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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
40. We may be forced to change
I have changed alot in the last 2 years . Material items don't mean a thing to me any more . They never were that important , many things are no more than a distraction from a life you are not happy with .

I always drive as little as possible , my car is a 1973 VW squareback and I could care less about the latest or greatest set of wheels , no matter what you drive you end up sitting in traffic looking through the windscreen not at the new wheels .

We always buy clothes from thrift shops , most of the money seems to go to bills and rent , food and utilities . I have come to the point where a small dwelling that is clean and dry would do . My wife and live in a one bedroom apartment and have for 26 years , there will never be money for a house that i can see . We are both close to or at 60 so we don't give a shit about the in crowd rubbish . We did hope to make it through the rest of our lives without another set of needless wars and now this bush takeover , all is like a nightmare of unreal proportions . The worst part is I know we are awake .

If people don't adapt a new mindset about lifestyles of the poor and middle class then soon most will find they will end up with nothing . I would rather choose to adapt to alot less then be forced to take what is left when it's too damn late .

I don't care what anyone else chooses to do , the reality is here to see . Man will not be able to stop global warming or get the jobs back that have been eliminated through whatever means . And elections and these half minded politicians are not going to save you , this is a game of win or loose to them for the most part . They are stuck in a dream state and most have their fortunes .

I say this because if you really look it is clear where we are headed and it is not the road most want to travel on but we so far are not building the road or planning it's direction .
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #40
48. Sadly, I agree.
I try to be optimistic about if the dems take power, but I question how much actual difference there will be if they do. If all we do is continue on the same path but at a slower rate, what have we accomplished?
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #40
54. Great post! I agree.

It's depressing but that's what I see down the road for the poor and middle class.
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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
41. I want to and I try ...
Edited on Sun Aug-20-06 07:02 PM by nam78_two
I think change begins at home :shrug:
I don't think there is anything here to get defensive or judgemental about-I think this is a great topic for a post :).

Now, my personal rule for anything is this - everytime I feel like consuming (for lack of a better word)-whatever the type of the consumption is, I ask myself "would I really get a huge amount of satisfaction from this?" and if the answer is (as it is in most cases) "eh-it could be kinda fun but I could do without it"-I usually don't do it. And if it is something that I do rarely enough, or is low impact and it gives me a lot of pleasure -I do it.
Works for me :).
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
43. Yes.
I'd like to start by working from home instead of driving back and forth to work everyday. Of course, that would require a profession change, too. I'm not ready to say that we should be a nation of cyber-schools with no personal meetings with teachers. I'm also not ready to have all my students descend on my house, which is the subject of a clearly remembered nightmare and wouldn't help the ozone layer, anyway!
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newportdadde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
44. No they don't, look at all the home equity borrowing to maintain lifestyle
We never properly exited the recession several years ago. What should have happened was a general tightening down and an increase in savings rate. Instead you had the fed with a cheap money policy and a general public who was unwilling to give up the good times of the late 90s and went into debt to maintain that lifestyle.

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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
52. Not unless they are forced to. nt
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