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I think this plot was real...and I think a boatload of lives were saved...

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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:08 PM
Original message
I think this plot was real...and I think a boatload of lives were saved...
...But here's my question....why would you blow up 10 jets over the Atlantic Ocean like the talking heads and some in the DHS have suggested? Who gets to see that, a few whales and the odd fishing trawler? I don't want to get morbid here but if you were going to go for maximum impact wouldn't you want them to explode over heavily populated areas? Like, I dunno, New York City, Los Angeles, Washington D.C.........

I think we dodged a HUGE bullet today, and thanks to the work of some dedicated folks that actually ARE looking for the bad guys, were we able to avert a truly horrific and tragic day....

Flame away if you like, but the folks that did the legwork on this (the British Intel folks etc) don't give a rat's ass about Joe Lieberman, the American Mid-Term elections, inflating *'s ratings, or any of the other myriad reasons posited by the "I call bullshit" doubters...They simply did their jobs, connected the dots and prevented an horrendous act from occurring, and thank God they did, because the alternative would have been dreadful.



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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. I can accept that it was real
but it must also be stressed that the interdiction of this plot was because of the hard work of the British, not the bumbling Keystone Cops in Washington D.C.
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. My point exactly...I understand the obvious skepticism....
...but this was a BRITISH operation...

If it was another announcement from the current mis-administration I would probably be calling bullshit too...
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LordLovesAWorkingMan Donating Member (272 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
37. Didn't they make use of NSA data?
I thought I heard that sometime today...
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
42. I think it would have been a much more tragic outcome
Had they been in charge. I agree.
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cdsilv Donating Member (883 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. Perhaps we did dodge a bullet... I think we may have.
However, we do have politicians trying to get political 'points' from this as we always will have.

Call me a cynic, but politicians of all stripes will always try to 'make hay' out of real or potential tragedy.

I'm tired of it - the 'Cry Wolf' nature of our current political discourse. When the US can allow a major city to DROWN, because it doesn't score anybody any political points, yet we have an around the clock hue and cry because we found out someone 'might' use binary explosives on some airplanes I wonder about our sense of proportion.

Clorox and ammonia.


Think about that.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. Exactly.
Props to the British & Pakistani officials who actually tracked these guys done. I think this proves just how ineffective the Bush Ad. policies are. Even w/all the new facist "reforms" the US has instituted, it appears the CIA, FBI, DHS were largely MIA here. The British unraveled this plot w/old-fashioned detective work & connecting the dots. Not torture, not racial profiling, not blanket harassment of citizens, etc. (BTW, a terrorism expert said that they planned to explode over the ocean to prevent recovery of any evidence of what happened.)
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Bobbieo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. Had this plot succeeded, it would have totalled the airline industry.
and done a real number on the economy.
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SKKY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. That's my vote for understatement of the year....
...it's difficult to get the brain around just how "bad" this would have been.
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Bobbieo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. And would have wiped out some 2.000 people!
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #5
49. far beyond the airline industry, think world economies, politics, war
It would have had a global effect on buisness, tourism, and the economies of all nations.

I have yet to see anyone really begin to discuss the possible response to a successful terrorist attack that brings down 10 passeneger aircraft that kills 2-3 thousand people.

The global impact on politics and any subsequent military response is frightening to comtemplate.

We should be damn thankful this was stopped. The mindless bullshit conspiracies I see here are making me physicall ill. It's sad how far gone some have reached with their distrust and paranoia. Sort of understandable, but not really.
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
6. I agree.
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 09:15 PM by ocelot
I believe there was a real plot (though how far they had got with it remains to be seen), and it was apparently thwarted by some very good police work by British law enforcement. No argument there. What's giving me heartburn is how the Republicans, with the help of the U.S. media, are spinning the incident to their advantage; and, of course, the predictably absurd overreaction by the rocket scientists at the TSA.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
7. I have the same problem about the planes blowing up over the
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 09:17 PM by mmonk
Atlantic. These terrorists must be amateurs because al Queda looks for symbolism in their targeting (Cole, World Trade Center, Pentagon, Capital Hill, Embassy, the Building in Saudi Arabia).
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
8. You may be right
I would love to know why you are so certain this plot was real? Is it just a "gut" instinct? Should the past few years of lies, deception and "fixed" intelligence enter into your belief?
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. Sure does seem like Al Qaeda rides to the rescue everytime Bush stumbles
How many times has "Al Qaeda" stepped up to prop up a sagging Bush regime? A dozen or more? Certainly is an overwhelming coincidence.

Who is Al Qaeda?

"Al-Qaeda evolved from the Maktab al-Khadamat (Office of Services, MAK) a Mujahidin organization fighting to establish an Islamic state during the Soviet war in Afghanistan in the 1980s. Osama bin Laden was a founding member of the MAK, along with Palestinian militant Abdullah Yusuf Azzam. The role of the MAK was to channel funds from a variety of sources (including donations from across the Middle East) into training Mujahidin from around the world in guerrilla combat, and to transport the combatants to Afghanistan. The MAK was mostly funded by donations from wealthy Muslim individuals but was also allegedly aided by the governments of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, and indirectly by the United States, which channeled most of its support and military hardware via the Pakistani intelligence service, the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) Directorate. During the latter half of the 1980s, the MAK was a relatively minor grouping in Afghanistan with no direct combatants; rather it limited its activities to fund raising, logistics, housing, education, refugee care, recruitment and the financing of other Mujahideen."

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Queda >
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. For me
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 09:25 PM by Marie26
it's cause this was led by the British police, not Bushco. (who seemed to not have a clue). This plot is centered in the same Pakistani community where the July bus bombing was planned. There's apparantly evidence they traveled to Pakistan & received funds from a terror organization to buy the tickets. This isn't 7 random guys in Miami making up stuff in front of an FBI agent. This was real. That said, Bush will take every opportunity to overreact & overestimate just how close it was to completion. I think the TSA reaction was completely hysterical & over the top. That doesn't change the fact that there apparantly was a real plot here.
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seriousstan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. Because there would have been no evidence as to how they did it.
Therefore they could have done it again.
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #9
51. I thought of that too, TWA 800 was a difficult recovery in 100' of water
It's much harder to recover pieces of airplanes from 10,000 feet of water.


Almost impossible to investigate. Remember how long it took to scour the offshore of Long Island for TWA 800? That was only about 100-150 feet deep.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. I believe it was real...and evidence of Bush's failed anti-terrorist ...
Policy...

We are past the days when the American people are going to rally around Bush everytime we are the target of a potential terrorist attack...instead people are going to be asking why we are still having to endure them...and why do there seem to be more terrorists now than ever before...?

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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
11. That occured to me too
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 09:19 PM by nam78_two
When all is said and done though, I do believe that Islamic fundamentalism (like many other types of religious fundamentalism-Christian, Hindu,Jewish etc.) is real.


I think its also fostered and fed by greedy corporatocrats (specially from Big Oil) who benefit from it...

As an atheist and a scientist, who is in a field where religious fundieism of various stripes is being a pain in the ass, I do tend to believe that all religions carry a strain of insanity with them :eyes:
Don't get me wrong..I think the majority of religious people are sane but I have very little difficulty usually accepting that people do nutty things for religious reasons....
Am losing all patience with it..
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
12. 10 jets
blowing up over the Atlantic would be catastrophic. No need to see pictures. The impact in peoples' minds would be off the charts.

I do not believe the people involved in this cared one bit about who won the CT primary. They are looking at the bigger picture which is terrorizing the US. Sorry to say, our government give them all the attention they need, even if they are not successful.

There really are terrorists. BushCo seems to have a symbiotic relationship with them. BushCo feeds off of this stuff. They use it to boost the credibility of their policies. It's sick.

Just watch the almost gleeful reaction of the Neocons to this. They are happy there was a terrorist plot. They revel in the fact that there are people who want to kill us. It validates them. It gives them ammo to use against us.

It's fake. Dems are not weak on terror. Just because these are their talking points, does not make it so.

Mz Pip
:dem:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
14. Good for them...and
joe lieberman and his swarmy ilk are just trying to cash in on some fine intelligence by the Brits.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
15. Hundreds killed would scare the shit out of us.
They do not need pictures to scare people. They do not need pics to fuck up the airlines. They do not need pictures to get their goals accomplished.

The other thing, no emergeny landing over the ocean.

Not a mystery at all.
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DemInDistress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. I don't buy it,, why use jets from Britain for a trail run why not
Cairo,Athens or Rome? Where intelligence is not as sharp as MI5. It stinks. Came just in time to wipe out the momentum from a Ned Lamont victory. Think about it, for the last 2 days its been almost all Lamont and that
loserman lieberman and now suddenly it "ALL TERROR ALL THE TIME" just like on Aug 1 2004 after the Democratic
Convention in Boston we had a "TERROR ALERT" FROM NYC of all places. Its one good way to kill any bounce Democrats might have had.

It just smells of politics. If MI5 knew of this plot in Dec. why now? Did these perps have a working liquid bomb? I'd like to know..
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. That's so self-centered
We care about Lamont, therefore the entire world, British intelligence, Pakistani police, & the airline industry also care deeply about the CT election, & have oriented their entire operations around stymieing those liberals. The world is so much bigger than that. There are other actors beyond Bush & Rove in the world. They launched this from Britain cause they're British citizens. Just like Richard Reid, just like the people who carried out the London bombing last July.
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DemInDistress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. have you seen a working model of this liquid bomb? has anybody?
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #32
45. Since they actually used one in the test run for the Bojinka Plot,
Edited on Fri Aug-11-06 08:53 AM by DistressedAmerican
I have no need to see plans or pictures of such a device.

They have used one and it has killed. They do exist and they do work. What more do you need to know?

Denial out of your own lack of info is not much of a case.
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Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
39. I disagree...
"Hundreds killed would scare the shit out of us."


It wouldn't scare me - not in the least.

We must get beyond this business of being frightened by bogeymen. How may people die in car accidents every day? How many from cancer? How many from lack of proper health care?

There are many things to fear if we dwell on them. Terrorism is just one among many. The only real difference is all the drama associated with it.

If we ramp down the fear factor, we minimize its value as a tool for those who would use terrorism for political gain.

And seriously... there are many things we should fear more than terrorism.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. That really needed to be said!
:applause:
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #39
44. You maybe. America Would Be Reshocked.
If you think that is the attitude shared by most Americans, you should look around you. The fear still hangs thick from 9/11.
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Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #44
58. Nah, I don't believe it...
Not real fear. It's more a matter of "group-think", attention seeking, and people wanting to coalesce around a common experience. It reminds me of Columbine. Half the teachers in Podunk Iowa were feigning "fear" over that one. Every five-year old with a squirt gun in his backpack was considered a big threat. It was ridiculous.

A couple of years ago there was an episode of "Rescue Me" that nailed it. A NYC fireman was having problems dealing with the loss of co-workers on 9-11, so he reluctantly decided to go to group therapy. When he got there, he listened as all the people described their terrible struggles with "fear". Eventually it became obvious that he was the only one who had actually been at ground zero - and the only one who had lost someone. He went ballistic because they were using the tragedy to seek attention.

There are a relatively small number of people who were killed by terrorists on 9-11. There are roughly 40,000 deaths EVERY SINGLE YEAR by auto accidents alone (200,000 since 9-11), yet few seem to fear getting into a car. Why? No drama.

I think it's long past time that progressives recognize much of this "fear" for what it really is, and call bullshit. It led to the Patriot Act and the erosion of our freedom.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #39
56. we have nothing to fear but fear itself
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Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #56
59. Exactly, fishwax!
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #59
64. what you said resonated with me
and I think that we need leaders to stand up and say what FDR said, while pointing out that our fear has already cost us so many of our precious freedoms. Our country has sold out to fear on a massive scale, and it's really unfortunate.
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
16. I don't know if it's real or not
but the republican exploitation and profiteering off this is truly SICK.

It's a sickness... these rightwing creeps just don't know right from wrong.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
17. I think the plot was real because British Intellegience was
in charge of the investigation....it's that simple.

If this would have happened on US soil with the political positioning the * cabal is doing....I fear that the results might have been different.
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soothsayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. unless their 'insider' to the terra cell was anything like ours (i.e.,
ours actually CREATE terra cells and tell them to do things like blow up planes and offer to sell them stuff to do it, then when they say 'ok I guess' we go "AHA! Got you, al qaeda!!"
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
18. Look at the bright side. No Brazilian electricians were shot in the head
How do we know some people weren't tortured into confessing to what they were told to confess to?

Sure wouldn't be the first time.

I would be more assured this was the real deal if we didn't torture people all the time.

Don
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #18
43. How many is a--
--oops, sorry, bite my tongue!
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AnnieBW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
21. I Wholly Agree
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 09:27 PM by AnnieBW
Just because the Bushbots are creaming their jeans about this doesn't mean that it was a bullshit threat. I do think that we dodged a bullet today, thanks to the Brits and their patience. If it was the FBI, they'd have charged in weeks ago and blew the whole operation. The Brits have a LOT more experience in dealing with this stuff than we Yanks do - unfortunately, because of their escapades in Northern Ireland.

Like you said, the Brits don't care about American politics. They all pretty much hate * and the Poodle. But they care about the people on those airliners, and everyone else that has to travel through Heathrow. I'm glad that they were on the job.

Cheers to the lads and lasses at MI-5! :toast:
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Oleladylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
26. Great posting..totally agree!
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
27. Exactly. They took the threat seriously and did their jobs
I wish the American President and Congress would see to it that law enforcement in this country had the money and resources to make sure that they can do their job on this end. We had a debate in the US Senate last month about Homeland Security and wound up with a report that said that a quilting festival or a petting zoo was a 'terrorist target' but that New York City just didn't have that many landmarks that warranted protection.

Congratulations to the professionals in he UK who did their jobs and probably did save a lot of lives. That is how it should be done and this is how you fight the proponents of terrorism. I really hope that Congress pays attention. We need to fund this kind of effort in this country and stop funding things like the Iraq War that make the threat of terrorism worse.
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
28. Weren't those planes schedule to land at some point?
Why couldn't terrorists wait until the planes have nearly reached their destinations?
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-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #28
57. Out in the middle of the Atlantic...
and at max altitude, forget about any chance of survivors or rescue effort.
And in the event an explosive device causes minimal damage or fails to bring the plane down, it's
along way to make it safely to the nearest airport. There's also more fuel onboard.
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BushOut06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
29. Is this the same British Intelligence that stands by the "yellow cake"?
I'm just wondering, is this the same MI5 that to this day continues to stand by the Iraqi 'yellow cake' story? We're also talking about a country that squelched the Downing Street memos.

It might be a real story. But do you find it impossible that Britain wouldn't help out its primary ally?
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kitty1 Donating Member (772 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
30. As to why planes would be blown up over Atlantic ocean....
as opposed to a large city for impact. For one thing, the shock value of 10 jets exploding in midair almost simultaneously would be more than traumatizing enough without having to crash in some city. Another consideration might be the probability of someone noticing something going on as they're landing. On approach to the airport, attendants are putting items away, making sure trays are up etc.,,so a person's behaviour could be more conspicuous. If something goes wrong with the first attempt too, they wouldn't have that extra time for an alternate plan B solution if there was one.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
31. Some people will believe anything.
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raysr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
33. Think about the timing.
This is bullshit just like the Osama tapes just before election 2004. But if your an Xian, what'd ya worried about? The Rapture, the rapture!
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colorado thinker Donating Member (676 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
34. Isn't it interesting that it has been the Metropolitan Police,
Scotland Yard, and British Intel that break the plot, find the bombers, etc.? All without 2600 dead soldiers, $300 billion dollars, thousands of dead civilians, etc?
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
35. No flames here!
I think you're spot on!!
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
36. Thanks for a sane post - K&R
There are really two issues here - fact and spin.

Like you, I believe this was real and it was thwarted by good police work. I can also understand the skepticism of those who hold the opposite view. I don't agree with them, but I understand. However, both the believers and the skeptics will have to wait (maybe forever) to get the actual, irrefutable facts.

The spin is a whole other issue. It is constant and it is drowning out all semblence of reason. It also begets the skepticism. That said, I think the skeptics and the believers can agree - the spin is a real problem.

If the believers are wrong, then they've cried wolf once too often for some of us and next time we may put ourselves at risk simply because they caused us to mistrust even more than our healthy skepticism allows. If the skeptics are right, then we are already past that point and closer to 'well and truly fucked'.
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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
38. Totally agree... but why did the plot get this far at all?
It was a real plot and it was really dangerous.

But... if Bush really went after Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden five years ago... this plot may have never even been hatched.

This is not a victory, it's a very clear indication that this administration has not mitigated the real threat of terrorism. I know one thing for sure - I don't feel safer.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
41. It may have been real, but had no real chance of suceeding
Like many such plots may be.

And none of it was a threat to "our freedom" or "our way of life."

That's all just Bushit.
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #41
52. No chance? Ask Haruki Ikegami's family if they had no chance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bojinka

In 1994, Yousef and Khalid Sheik Mohammed started testing airport security. Yousef booked a flight between Kai Tak International Airport in Hong Kong and Chiang Kai Shek International Airport near Taipei. Mohammed booked a flight between Ninoy Aquino International Airport near Manila and Kimpo International Airport near Seoul.

The two had already converted fourteen bottles of contact lens solution into bottles containing nitroglycerin, which was readily available in the Philippines. Yousef taped a metal rod to the arch of his of foot in place of the detonators. Yousef and Mohammed wore jewelry and clothing with metal to confuse airport security.

On December 11, 1994, Yousef built another bomb, which had one tenth of the power that his final bombs were planned to have, in the lavatory of the aircraft and left it inside the life jacket under his seat, 26K, after he got off the plane from a flight that arrived in Cebu. Yousef had boarded the flight under the assumed name of Armaldo Forlani, using a false Italian passport. The aircraft was Philippine Airlines Flight 434 using that aircraft on a Manila to Narita route. Yousef had set the timer for four hours after he got off the aircraft. The bomb exploded while the aircraft was over Minami Daito Island, near Okinawa, Japan. A Japanese businessman named Haruki Ikegami was killed after the bomb detonated. The Boeing 747-200 safely made an emergency landing in Naha, Okinawa. None of the aircraft's other 272 passengers or any members of the crew were killed, although 10 passengers in front of Ikegami were injured. Yousef then planned which flights to attack for Phase I.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
46. using investigative techniques? like police do. that will never get
the terrorists. oh no, the only way is to start wars in countries

they did their job. good that they caught them. this is our world. will get 99% of them and 1% gets by to release a bit of hell on earth

now we dont take bottle water into airports? all gels out of carryons and thrown into a trash bag. oh ya, the threat of bomb is there.

no i dont think this has to do with lieberman either. but was is this an impression. can it be what bushco's have created over the years. can they be responsible for this attitude from we the people. i think so. i will say shame on bush
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
47. you are much more likely to destroy the plane w/ no survivors over water
think about it

Video of the crashes would be nice from a terrorists point of view, but I recall the TWA 800 floating wreckage, especially the burning floating piecesand the obvious TWA logos as pretty memorable.

What they really want to do is crash the planes, cause global fear, and ground the airline system worldwide casuing maximum damage. Crashing 9 or 10 planes at the same time would do that. Who would want to fly after that?

If you have the bombs go off midway across the ocean, you put the planes at their maximum distance from an emergency landing if you only managed to damage a plane. The longer a damaged plane is in the air, it gives any surviving terrorists more time to do more damage, or to actually let the plane fail catastrophically. They were going to use TATP. TATP violently expands as it detonates. In a pressurized airplane at 37,000 feet, overpressure in a plane could really do substantial damage via explosive decompression. Could they go for trying to detonate the planes over NYC or DC or Chicago at 5-10,000 feet? Of course, but they have a greater chane of bringing down the plane from a high altitude than at a low altitude.

And forget about a water landing? Did you ever see the footage of the hijacked Ethiopian airplane making a water landing/crash?
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
48. How many of these threads will we have to endure?
We believe already!!!!! Take me to your leader.
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TheFriedPiper Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
50. Well, you can't fool all the people all of the time
but they sure can fool enough of the people enough of the time.

geez.


plots? maybe
plans? possibly

means? not likely
method? none
materials? none
logistical support? none


-shaking head-

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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
53. It is real, and show how incompetent * is in protecting us.
All the hard work was done by the Brits and Pakistanis.


What I am concerned about is how both the US and UK are using draconian crap at airports to scare people.
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msmcghee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
54. If your purpose was to guarantee the maximum . .
Edited on Fri Aug-11-06 10:22 AM by msmcghee
. . number of American deaths and you lived in England - this is probably how you'd do it. Where else could you be assured of finding so many Americans concentrated in a small vulnerable place as on a return flight to the USA from England in the last month of summer vacation?

Your only alternative would be to go to this country and set up a completely different attack. They could make all the arrangements for this (purported) attack living and operating in their own familiar environment at minimum expense and exposure.

Makes sense to me. It would have been devastating if they had succeeded.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
55. I don't "think" so...
But the logical position is one of skepticism. You do not have the facts and I do not have the facts. We only have what we have been told by our governments. Maybe they are being truthful and maybe they are not? Why should we believe them this time?
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Beelzebud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
60. I think the plot was BS, and fear has once again robbed ppl of reason.
Be afraid!

Go shopping!

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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
61. Very true
Flame away if you like, but the folks that did the legwork on this (the British Intel folks etc) don't give a rat's ass about Joe Lieberman, the American Mid-Term elections, inflating *'s ratings, or any of the other myriad reasons posited by the "I call bullshit" doubters...They simply did their jobs, connected the dots and prevented an horrendous act from occurring, and thank God they did, because the alternative would have been dreadful.

*'s timing of the release of the information is BS, for sure. But the folks who broke up this plot did a great job. This is the sort of work that should be done to fight terrorists. And we can hammer home over and over that torture and war did nothing to uncover this plot. In fact, if it weren't for the war in Iraq, this plot would never have been conceived in the first place.
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
62. The plot can be real and this still used to manipulate the public
I don't think that it even matters whether the plot was real or not. What matters is that this administration is using it to scare the public, they are claiming success when they weren't even involved, and they are using it to attack their opponents in a cowardly, lying fashion. Without the media response and the 'impromptu' 2 minute speech from the Fucktard-in-Chief, this story is nothing more than a foiled plot.
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
63. British Intel dropped the ball on the subway bombings last year
So pardon our skepticism on this side of the ocean about its effectiveness or competence. Plus, far too many times, supposed terror plots have turned out to be vaporous, and excuses for Bush and his media enablers to ramp up fear and paranoia at opportune times.

My issue isn't the "reality" of the plot, it's the breathless, fear-mongering saturation of coverage. The Lieberman defeat IS important in the larger context that it was a bellweather for American opinion on the Iraq debacle, and so the American media coverage of the alleged plot was ramped up beyond the norm; and whether intentional or not, it was most definitely seized upon by the more openly right-wing media in our country as a way of saying "See? By kicking pro-war people out of office, we're emboldening terrorists!"

So skepticism aside, we more sensible and less fear-prone Americans reserve the right to question the quality of coverage of this whole matter, which is what this is really about for most of us.
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
65. did the plotters have any chemicals and did they buy tickets?
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