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When did the Islamists become "Islamic Fascists"

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JBear Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:29 PM
Original message
When did the Islamists become "Islamic Fascists"
OK, This one bowled me over this afternoon. Apparently our genius of vocabulary has added a new definition to the word Fascist to deflect attention from his Fascist leanings....

Found in the main story on terra at:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/10/us.security/index.html

U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said the plans were "suggestive of an al Qaeda plot," and President Bush said the arrests are a "stark reminder" that the U.S. is "at war with Islamic fascists."

When is the media going to call him on this one??? Oh yeah, I forgot - pass the koolaid

JB
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. they must have gone corporate
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. They probably got that from Rick on "The Younge Ones"
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. It entered our vocabulary when the Fuhrer decided he wasn't..
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 08:39 PM by originalpckelly
really Hitler, but was more a Franklin Roosevelt.
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KAZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. About a year or two ago. I think Savage coined.
The rest of the gang in now running with it.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
5. Rovian framing from republican fascists.
If they use a word consistently first, they get to define it for all future use.
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Pobeka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. DING DING DING.
It is getting more obvious even to the brainwashed GOP'ers that we have in essence a fascist form of goverment, since only the powerful corporations are able to lobby and really influence politicians.

This smells like Rove, fascists=islamic, islamic=fascists. Then the progressives in the USA will be denied the appropriate term to apply to the GOP (and sadly more and more dems).
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. We're on the same page. - n/t
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. Yep, since the installation . It's getting more totalitarian now. eom
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lindisfarne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. More accurate would have been "Islamist Fundamentalists" but that
would have pissed off the Christian Fundamentalists. (Also: "Islamist Fascist" does not include all "Muslims (people who follow Islam)". It's a sub-group. Just as "white supremacists" doesn't include all "whites".)
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
7. they did a focus group
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Freedom_from_Chains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. It is something that has been developing for a few weeks now.
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 08:36 PM by Freedom_from_Chains
The phrase is actually Islamofacist. I think they test marketed it and determined it got favorable results so it has now become the mantra. I think it works like this.

Islamist has been changed to Islamo to remind people that gays are still a threat. They are being tagged as fascist so that the label can't be applied to this administration who actually are fascist. They are betting that the average Joe doesn't know that fascism is the conjoining of the government and the corporation, which they don't, so no one is going to ask what corporations are the muslims joining with.

It just sounds bad so Islam must be bad.
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global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
9. I Was Wondering The Same Thing - Who Coined The Term.....
Islamofacists? When was it coined? Why all of a sudden is all of *Co using the term - including the talking heads and * apologists?
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. I first heard it used regularly by Coulter/ Malkin
Not that I like hearing from them but, you pick stuff up.
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
10. Wikipedia has references 15 years old n/t
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Xeric Donating Member (586 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
11. It's a stupid phrase
See Juan Cole's discussion on why:

It is a misuse of the word "Islamic." "Islamic" has to do with the ideals and achievements of the Muslims and the Muslim religion. Thus, we speak of Islamic art. We speak of Islamic ethics.

There can be Muslim fascists, just as there can be Christian fascists (and were, in Spain, Italy and Germany, and parts of Central and South America; the Spanish fascists and the Argentinian ones, e.g., were adopted by the United States government as close allies.)

But there cannot be "Islamic" fascists, because the Islamic religion enshrines values that are incompatible with fascism.

Fascism is not even a very good description of the ideology of most Muslim fundamentalists. Most fascism in the Middle East has been secular in character, as with Saddam Hussein's Baath Party. Fascism involves extreme nationalism and most often racism. Muslim fundamentalist movements reject the nation-state as their primary loyalty and reject race as a basis for political action or social discrimination. Fascists exalt the state above individual rights or the rule of law. Muslim fundamentalists exalt Islamic law above the utilitarian interests of the state. Fascism exalts youth and a master race above the old and the "inferior" races. Muslim fundamentalists would never speak this way. Fascism glorifies "war as an end in itself and victory as the determinant of truth and worthiness." Muslim fundamentalists view holy war as a ritual with precise conditions and laws governing its conduct. It is not considered an end in itself.

The lazy conflation of Muslim fundamentalist movements with fascism cannot account for their increasing willingness to participate in elections and serve in parliamentary government. Hizbullah, for example, ran in the 2005 elections and had 12 members elected to parliament. Altogether, the Shiite parties of Hizbullah and Amal, who have a parliamentary alliance, have 29 members in the Lebanese parliament of 128 seats. Hizbullah and Amal both joined the national unity government, receiving cabinet posts. This is not the behavior of a fascist movement tout court.


The rest at: http://www.juancole.com/
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El Supremo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Perfect explanation! n/t
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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
29. .;
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
12. Fascism...
a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
Oppressive, dictatorial control.

"You Have To Keep Repeating Things To Catapult The Propaganda" http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2005/260505newb...
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El Supremo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
13. I've been hearing the wingnuts say "Islamo-fascists" for some time.
It takes one to know one.
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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
15. I cringed when I heard the Chimperor say this today.
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 08:42 PM by Olney Blue
x(
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
16. When I was growing up they were just Moslems...like we were
methodists, catholics, lutherans, etc..
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
17. When Hezbollah started using the Nazi salute?
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 08:48 PM by AlienGirl

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Phredicles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
19. I'm sure I've seen the term 'Islamofascist' in opinion columns, etc.
(always penned by neocons) for at least a couple of years now.

I've been under the impression this is part of a program of likening the "War on Terrrr" to a war everyone can get behind, like WWII (I've also seen neocon columns taking Hollywood to task for not coming out with more inspiring war movies, explicitly drawing a comparison with the '40s).

The problem is that the '40s fascists were quite upfront about calling themselves such. But I've seen no "Islamofascist Party" or Islamofascist manifesto - it's strictly a label tossed around as convenient.
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catnhatnh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
20. Better still-
When did Muslims become "Islamists" at all-look to the framing-do you accept Jews being called "Zionists"???Are all Catholics in a country we disagree with "Cathologists" or was Ireland abour "Cathologists" and "Protestentists"????It's all horseshit to make them into "THEM" instead of people with an honest dissenting view of our stated worldview.Somedays I just wish I could make the Neo-conists and their little brothers, the Republicanists disappear...
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Mugsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
21. When the Neo-Fascists here began to recognize themselves in them.
:)
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Melynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
22. Control the language - control the people
Was it Orwell who said that? I can't remember.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
23. Right about the time
people started calling the Bush Ad. facist. It's projection on a massive scale.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
25. The term "fascist" does apply to Islamic extremists.
It also applies to Bush, so I guess the phrase "takes one to know one" is actually true.
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Are you kidding?
Edited on Fri Aug-11-06 03:50 PM by Generator
You expect the vocal majority around here is going to accept that? No, there are already countless threads about how they are not fascists. And it was even on Democracy NOW this morning, and you know what I thought-more damn PC wrangling about language. LIKE it fucking matters what you call murderers. Always with the PC bullshit. Meanwhile, these whatever you want to call them-murdering nice Islamic folk-would love to kill all the Gay people-would love to keep all the women locked up and insure Sharia relgious law. Thank ALLAH the liberals are there to defend them. I'm glad I'm going on vacation and don't have to read this shit anymore. People that want to blow airplanes are not are friends. But we mustn't call them Islamic fascists. It might hurt their feelings. They might riot. They might KILL us so we better be nice.

And yes, you are correct Bush is a fascist too.
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wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Its more about respecting language than anything else
Winning arguments or educating is best accomplished with logic, brevity and conciseness.

Those who misuse language are either ignorant or guilty of propaganda.


Why take personal frustration out on the academic aspect of political debate?


:dem:
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. Hey, I looked up the definition of the word and it fits. Period.
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wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. What does fascism mean to you?
Edited on Fri Aug-11-06 03:52 PM by wuushew
n/t
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #31
39. I did look it up before I posted that.
From dictionary.com:

A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
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Blackthorn Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
26. It's called "projection".
Accusing ones opposition of the very things one is doing.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. beat me to it. It takes one to know one.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
33. About the time Lamont beat Lieberman...
Or at least that's when I noticed it being used regularly in the Corporate Media.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Most people equate the word Fascist with Hitler.
Researching this one finds that Mussolini and Franco were the forerunners of this concept. It is Corporate Power alligned with the Govt. in power yet the general perception of this word does not include this. The Busholini Regime are now using this term to villify the opposition to US ME Policies.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Just like the term "commie" or "pinko" during the 1950s and 1960s
Didn't matter if the object of your derision was a card-carrying member of the Communist Party or not, just hurling "commie" or "pinko" at them "put them on the defensive." McCarthy managed to do this with his hearings: intimidating people with this label. I remember kids on the playground during this time shouting "commie" at playmates who they wanted to intimidate and bully. It might have been something as simple as a disagreement, but if you didn't agree with them, you must've been a "commie" and reminded as such. It's a coward's way to have the last word.

Screaming "fascist" at Islam during these times has a similar effect.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
37. Even Tweety called the Rethug
on that one.
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