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Timbuk3 Donating Member (727 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:46 PM
Original message
A remarkable series of coincidences
The arrest of unemployed Pakistanis in Britain today on charges that they were conspiring to blow up 10 airliners bound for the US came at a convenient time for the GOP in America, because it puts "TERRA! TERRA! TERRA!" back on the front pages of our newspapers. "Convenient" because "stong on terra" is virtually the ONLY issue that's important to Americans where the GOP holds a slim lead over the Democrats.

Today is the first time since just prior to the election of 2004 that the "terror alert level" has been raised above "yellos". Was this a "plot" by the US and British government to manipulate the next election? I have serious reservations about supporting that point of view for a host of reasons. I believe there's something more obvious, and logical, behind the timing of these things.

Here's my theory, in a nutshell. I believe "the terrorists" want the GOP to remain in control of the government in the USA. Read on, if you're interested, and please remember that criticism makes theories stronger.


I firmly believe that the most effective way to lose at anything, including in war, is to underestimate your enemies. It's far too easy to focus on the morons who believe they'll receive 72 virgins in heaven and willingly blow themselves up. But the indisputable fact is, their leaders don't commit suicide to attack us. These suicide bombers are duped by their leaders into serving as weapons.

Here's some information on some of those leaders: Bin Laden has degrees http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden in civil engineering, economics, and public administration. Al-Zawahiri studied behavior, psychology and pharmacology as part of his medical degree http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zawahiri at Cairo University. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (Iranian President) received his Ph.D. in traffic and transportation engineering and planning in 1987 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadinejad . Underestimate them and you will lose.

In 1996 bin Laden issued a fatwa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatwa in August, 1996 that was also a declaration of war http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fat... against the United STates. That fatwa was followed by another http://www.ict.org.il/articles/fatwah.htm in Febuary of 1998 calling for "Jihad Against Americans". In this second fatwa he speaks of "three facts that are known to everyone": 1) "the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula...turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples", 2) "despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, in excess of 1 million... despite all this, the Americans are once against trying to repeat the horrific massacres,", and 3) "the Americans' aims behind these wars are religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews' petty state and divert attention from its occupation of Jerusalem and murder of Muslims there."

It seems redundant to point out that none of those "three facts" have changed since 1998. But there's more.

In a February 2002 interview http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/02/05/... bin Laden says:

This battle is not between al Qaeda and the U.S. This is a battle of Muslims against the global crusaders. In the past when al Qaeda fought with the mujahedeen, we were told, "Wow, can you defeat the Soviet Union?" The Soviet Union scared the whole world then. NATO used to tremble of fear of the Soviet Union. Where is that power now? We barely remember it. It broke down into many small states and Russia remained.


And he goes on to clarify that the twin towers were destroyed because "The towers are an economic power and not a children's school. Those that were there are men that supported the biggest economic power in the world."

I don't want to violate fair use, here, but you really need the next 5 paragraphs to see where this is all going. In a November 2004 tape http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/01/binladen.tape / bin Laden says:

"We are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy. Allah willing, and nothing is too great for Allah," bin Laden said in the transcript.

He said the mujahedeen fighters did the same thing to the Soviet Union in Afghanistan in the 1980s, "using guerrilla warfare and the war of attrition to fight tyrannical superpowers."

"We, alongside the mujahedeen, bled Russia for 10 years until it went bankrupt and was forced to withdraw in defeat," bin Laden said.

He also said al Qaeda has found it "easy for us to provoke and bait this administration."

"All that we have to do is to send two mujahedeen to the furthest point east to raise a piece of cloth on which is written al Qaeda, in order to make generals race there to cause America to suffer human, economic and political losses without their achieving anything of note other than some benefits for their private corporations," bin Laden said.


One more piece of that interview, as cited in USA Today http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2004-11-02-bin-laden... :

Osama bin Laden vowed to bleed America to bankruptcy, according to a full transcript of unaired portions of a videotape released Monday by an Arab television station. The al-Qaeda leader's remarks appeared targeted to the final days of the U.S. presidential campaign in which the struggling economy is a major issue.

Bin Laden boasted in his first appearance in more than a year that for every $1 al-Qaeda has spent on terrorist strikes, it has cost the United States $1 million in economic fallout and military spending, including emergency funding for Iraq and Afghanistan.


So where are we?

In 2002 congress was busy falling all over each other trying to show the American people who was "tougher on terror" by voting to give the President the sole power to invade Iraq. It was shameful that so many Democrats voted for JR114, but given the mood of the country at the time and the recent memory of 911 it was certainly not necessary for our enemies to attack us or issue a "press release" in an attempt to influence our elections. We were still enraged and looking for blood.

In 2004 bin Laden released a statement that spoke directly of the election, and taunted the American people, daring them to re-elect Bush with "...the real loser is you. It is the American people and their economy. the darkness of black gold blurred (Bush's) vision and insight, and he gave priority to private interests over the public interests of America." (From the CNN link http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/01/binladen.tape /.) Yeah, like bin Laden isn't smart enough to figure out that him scolding us for accepting Bush is going to make us vote AGAINST him. Sure. And if I tell my kid he can't have any candy he's not going to want some. Uh huh.

Now it's 2006 and the GOP is in trouble. Imagine what the mood of the country would be if we were reading, right now, that TEN planes bound from London to America had been lost. I can hear the spin, now. "What was Bush/what was the GOP supposed to do to prevent them getting on the plane in LONDON???" "How much more proof do you need that these people will keep attacking us???"

True enough. They'll keep attacking us, whenever they can cost us a million dollars for every dollar they spend.

But they know they can't win militarily. Their goal is to bring this country down economically, just like they did the Soviet Union in, ironically enough, Afghanistan. Reagan didn't end the cold war, bin Laden did.

And with a few more years of GOP rule, America will be no threat to radical islamic fundamentalists who really DO want to win this war. Bin Laden and company know that, but then again they have advanced degrees. They can see the damage that the people in Grover Norquist's "drown it in a bathtub" club are doing to America. It's a pity more of us can't.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. all terrorists -- ours, theirs -- need each other
in order to keep "functioning." It's a deranged "call and response" system they have going...
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Timbuk3 Donating Member (727 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I could have made a shorter post
All I had to do was type "Emmanuel Goldstein LIVES!" and anyone who read 1984 would have understood it.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. exactly....
n/t
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. And toss in a soupcon of Soma a la Huxley, the recipe is ready
for the oven.
"To Serve Man", indeed.
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. mmmMMMMmmm... soma....gghhghghhggggggh
I feel the doors of perception melting away in this brave new world
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. I feel much more like I do now than I did an hour ago.
:silly:
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Timbuk3 Donating Member (727 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. Make mine soylent green. n/t
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Freedom_from_Chains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. Excellent analysis! Thanks for the post. n/t
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emcguffie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. Ah, but when will the fundamentalists realize --
-- that fundamentalists are fundamentalists, be they Muslim or Christian, and fascists are fascists, be they Muslim or Christian, and God is God, whether you call him Allah or God or Jehovah or Yahweh? And that Saul/Paul was the one that decided to pitch the idea that Jesus died and rose again, therefore WAS God? That little add-on came out of the Hellenic tradition, not the Judaic one. In the Judaic one, where Christianity was just a sect for 35 or 40 years after Jesus died, Jesus was not considered the son of God.

Saul/Paul pulled that off, and he sold it to the Gentiles, directing Christianity in an entirely new direction.

And here we are today.

It might be a different world, truly, if we looked at Jesus and Mohammed and Mithra and Buddha and the Iroquois Peacemaker all as prophets sent to educate all the people about the one, the only, God, the one that we all share. The same one.

Actually, as a Catholic in Tennessee, I was indeed taught that I worshipped the very same God as Muslims worship, and the very same God as Jews worship. It only broke down over Jesus and Mohammed. We all were busy worshipping the very same God. So what is the problem? Why make jihad against people worshipping the same God that you worship? And why would God favor one group of people over another? Why would he love these people more than those people? Honestly, who can believe that?

Excuse me for ranting, but what is the big deal? Is that so hard to see? Are we so different? What could be wrong with believing that God loves all of his children equally, and that he would send a prophet to all of them? Why would he send a prophet to just one group of people, and leave all the others in the dark? What kind of parent would decide to educate just one of his children?

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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I think I can go along with this thread- Nom #5
Good post emcguffie!
:dem:
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we can do it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I, Too Was Taught We Are All God's Children - No Matter What We Call Him
..Her or whatever? Where did all this hate come from?
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respublicus Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. Coincidence like the "terror plot" premiered same day as WTC flick?
They don't even bother to do fake terror any more - they just pretend to, and the pavlovian spittle is supposed to flow!
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
9. By your definition of "conventient time"
every point in the last 18 months has been a "convenient time".
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Timbuk3 Donating Member (727 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. That depends
If you think my definition of "convenient time" is "right after the latest RW screw up" then you'd be right. Pretty much on a weekly basis would be "convenient" by that definition.

But what I was thinking when I wrote that was "convenient time" is "a couple of months before an election when the GOP polling is in the shitter."

Take away the "terra" card and the GOP wouldn't have any hope at all in this upcoming election. They're FAR behind the Democrats on any other issue that matters to Americans. (And they'd be behind the Democrats on "terra" if the propaganda that's being "catapaulted" wasn't so effective at promoting this atmosphere of fear. You have a better chance of picking a local high school quarterback to win the Super Bowl some day than you do of dying in a terrorist attack.)
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. But why would now be the optimal point to raise fears?
Why not September or October? Or if maintaining paranoia is a long term project, then why not July, June, or even back in the springtime?
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Timbuk3 Donating Member (727 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. The elections are less than 2 months away
Gotta keep it fresh.

Do you remember "never introduce a new product in August"?

Well, it depends on the product. Obviously THIS one is getting a lot of press.

Then there's less than two months to the election for, if this attack had been successful, for the GOP to wring their hands over how terrible it would be if those "cut and run Democrats" were to take over the government, now.

BTW, you might be interested in this: Bush approved going to "code red" YESTERDAY. The investigation had been ongoing for months, and they really WERE about to do it. I'm GLAD they stopped it.

Please keep in mind, I'm not saying Bush was behind this. I'm saying bin Laden and company are trying to manipulate the voters.

Ten planes, with 200 passengers each, is an attack on the scale of 911, 2000+ people. How soon do you think we'd forget that?

The only open question, to me, is how the GOP would spin away from "see, you DIDN'T keep us safe" if the attack had succeeded. I can't answer that one. (And I don't think the terrorists wanted to get caught.)
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. But if the elections were 3 months away
one could say "look, it's a coincidence, the elections are only 3 months away"

If the elections were one month away one could say "look, it's a coincidence, the election is only a month away".

If it were 4-6 months away one could say "look the election is just a few months away".

There's such a huge time frame for terrorism to be kicked around as a political football, that one can't really construe a terror-related event happening in this time frame as being a coincidence.
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Timbuk3 Donating Member (727 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. It's NOT a coincidence
That's the point.

"A remarkable series of coincidences" was meant to be satirical.
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Damn. I need to get more sleep.
Sorry, man.

:hi:
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Timbuk3 Donating Member (727 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. LOL
No problem.

Like I said, strong criticism makes a theory stronger.

I need some sleep, too.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
15. Excellent post, Timb.
Thanks. Very good analysis. Why are Americans so bleedin' stupid?

:kick:
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Timbuk3 Donating Member (727 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Look what they're up against
It's not that we're stupid. It's that we think our enemies are stupid.

Wait a minute.

That's pretty stupid.

Never mind.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
23. Morning kick
This is a good read.

:kick:
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sagesnow Donating Member (311 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
24. Kicked , Recommended and
sent out to everyone on my list.
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
25. Underestimate them and you will lose.
From your post:

Here's some information on some of those leaders: Bin Laden has degrees http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden in civil engineering, economics, and public administration. Al-Zawahiri studied behavior, psychology and pharmacology as part of his medical degree http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zawahiri at Cairo University. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (Iranian President) received his Ph.D. in traffic and transportation engineering and planning in 1987 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadinejad . Underestimate them and you will lose.

George W. Bush:

Managed to get through Yale University (riding on his Daddy's legacy) with a solid C average (business?)degree.

Overestimate him, and you will lose.
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
26. Exactly what I've thought all along
I remember thinking a few days after 9/11 and the rhetoric started flowing "bin Laden isn't going to destroy us. He's just attacking us so that we will destroy ourselves." So far it's been what I have seen happen too.
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