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This paranoid Karl fantasy crap is hitting an all time high around here.

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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:02 PM
Original message
This paranoid Karl fantasy crap is hitting an all time high around here.
Let's be clear, CORRELATION DOES NOT MEAN CAUSATION.

Events happen. When events happen other things are invariably going on at the same time. It is a big world. Since most days we are dealing with more Bush crap, most events that happen co-occur with some news that the administration does not want out there. That does not mean that Bushco is behind everything that is politically convenient.

Name a day for them to announce this news that would not push some other news off the front page. Maybe if you could, Karl would schedule these plots for a less suspicious time.

Karl Rove did not begin a terror investigation months ago in a foreign country so they could announce the arrests today and push a Lamont victory off of the front pages. Anyone that really believes that really has slipped the old paranoia disk.

Try using some basic logic. Correlation does not equal causation. Any basic science or logic class should teach that much.

More basic logic: An event that benefits someone is not always the work of those it benefits.

All this crap about timing and who may benefit is totally flawed logic. It is correlation = causation. That logic fails all tests.

I may be wrong, but it sounds like this investigation started before there was even a Lamont run. I guess Karl is a psychic along with being all powerful?

The crap I'm seeing here in thread after thread is Silly McStupid. And we get offended when they think we are whacked out moonbat conspiracy nuts? The way people have jumped on this nonsensical theorizing with the flimsiest of evidence are embarrassing. Please people get a grip on reality.

Karl is not going to jump out of your fucking bushes as you walk past and he did not create a terror investigation in England months ago to give himself political cover now. Period.

Loosen the tin foil. It is squeezing your brains.
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Iwasthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. Karl IS psychic it seems
It is almost like they have a time machine... watch the smirks on their faces too... they seem to know in advance events and can circumvent... look at the last two elections... NOT planning to loosen MY tinfoil hat... I personally think we should all error on the side of a massive agenda beyond anything most of us can imagine (better safe than sorry)... there is liable to be no presidential vote in 2008
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malta blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks DA for clearing that up
:applause:
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Not sure why I try....
:freak:
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. Wait and see...
more will come out about the "intelligence" behind this raid and where it came from.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Are you giving the same advice to the "Karl is behind it" crowd?
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 07:33 PM by DistressedAmerican
Wait and see?

Or is that advice just for those of us that think such open-ended and factless speculation is nonsense?

Just wondering.

Correlation does not equal causation. An act that benefits someone is not by default their doing. Those are the big two logic flaws being applied by many asserting Bushco involvement here. "Wait and see" does not change that.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. I don't think Karl is behind it -
that's simplistic. There's a lot more going on behind the scenes, it takes a while to come out.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Again, Are you giving that advice to those that claim Bushco involvement?
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 07:46 PM by DistressedAmerican
Somehow I doubt you are or you would have just answered the question.

Why shuld I "wait and see" while the tin foil crowd jumps straight to their poorly backed accusations?

And to be clear when I say "Karl" is just a place holder for the entire administration or elements within it.

Although many, many here today have asserted "Karl". Whether it is short hand to them I can't say. Most do not sound like it is.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. ...because every time a terror scare event happens
there is usually a lot more to it.

When the guy was shot on the London tube I was shouted at to trust the police, they know what they're doing.
And then when the guy in Forestgate was shot, same thing. I said wait and see, there's more to this. And there was.

Same with this situation.

For instance how much did you know on 9/11 about the event and how much do you know now?
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. So I can take your answer as "no"?
:shrug:?
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #16
38. The advice is to both sides
of the argument. I personally believe the timing of the raids was political but I have no concrete evidence of that as yet because we haven't been told the full details. It could days, months or years for the relevant information to be released.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. they knew about this as early as friday..
and are just now today banning the substances that could be used to explode a plane?! I'll think I'll keep my tin foil hat firmly in place, thank you very much.

BTW.. you may want to check this thread:

UK Channel 4 News: Terror Raids brought forward due US Intel
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
7. I think you're also missing the point
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 07:41 PM by CJCRANE
that they don't plan these raids in advance to correlate with specific events they htink will happen.

They react to the events as they happen and manipulate whatever investigations they can to get a distraction.

For instance remember when Tom Ridge blew the cover of an al-Qaeda informer right in the middle of an ongoing invesitgation? (and the London police had to go in early).

on edit: or John Ashcroft making an announcement from Moscow that they'd caught Jose Padilla in the middle of a dirty bomb plot (an arrest which had been made one month previously). There are lots more examples.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. I understand they manipulated what they can fr political benefit.
That is far different that claiming that the whole thing is a Karl scam.

You may not have made that claim yourself. But there are many, mnay here who have been all day long. It is those people I'm talking to.
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
8. Queue the Stonecutters Song
Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do! We do!
Who leaves Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the martians under wraps?
We do! We do!
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do! We do!
Who robs the cave fish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscars night?
We do! We do!

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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. .
:rofl:
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I second that.
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 07:45 PM by DistressedAmerican
:rofl: :rofl:

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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
26. Damn those Stonecutters
And the "Smoking Man" in the X-Files, the man who single-handedly kept the Buffalo Bills from winning the Superbowl.
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driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #26
33. Four freakin' times he stopped my Bills from winning the
Super Bowl!!

I hate that man.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Ah, you must be Cheektowagan
Or North Tonowandan. Or one of those other tribes.... :D
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driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Close -- I'm a Fredonian!
The Bills used to have their training camp at my college -- SUNY Fredonia.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
10. "Karl Rove is not a genius. He is a criminal."
Attribution unknown
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. steals candy from a baby
the baby of course is the people, and the candy, well that's still being trucked away...lol
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The Onyx Key Donating Member (121 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
17. "CORRELATION DOES NOT MEAN CAUSATION"?? Good
grief, are you crazy?? If that bit o' logic was taken at face value around here half the threads would shut down!
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Probably should be. If that is all they are based on.
Just saying.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #17
27. Only half??
:tinfoilhat:
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #17
28. Correlation, if it exists, is significant.
True, the fact that two things happen at the same time (juxtaposition) doesn't prove they're connected. But if the same two types of things repeatedly occur together (correlation) -- e.g. a foiled terror plot is announced every time the news looks bad for Bush -- then there is definitely something going on.

Now, maybe that something isn't causation (and maybe it is) but if there's true correlation it is definitely worth looking at.
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Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
20. Well said, DA. . .
doubt it will do much good, but well said.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
21. Well said -- thanks! nt
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
22. Bravo!
That needed saying.

To be *sure* ... they are skilled at making hay when the sun shines. They're the most skilled opportunists ever. And as skilled as they are, they're also pretty transparent. The more they pull this crap, the more they risk exposing themselves for the bone picking ghouls they are.

They can make shit happen, but not this. In fact, much of what gets attibuted to them is really the result of fast reaction, not specific action.
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niallmac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
23. Karl put you up to this didn't he!
C'mon. Admit it!
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
24. They are bastards for politicizing this
They knew about the plot and the planned raid in advance and have been peppering the press with "democrats will let Al-Qaeda buttfuck you if we leave Iraq!!!" shit, and they knew this was going down.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
25. How do you know what Kkkkarl did or did not do?
We can be suspicious. That's natural, given what we know of him.

There is nothing wrong with raising an issue. That's an intellectual process.

And why was Cheney claiming this victory emboldens the terrorist? Why isn't anyone going on about how paranoid Cheney is?

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bigbrother05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
29. Don't think they set this up months ago, but
if Blair told Bush about it on Sunday, is it too far fetched that he got Tony to hold off for the right moment ( a day or so before making the arrests)? They have already shown that they are willing to go public prematurely with a terra announcement that screwed up an ongoing UK investigation (bragging about a stopping a threat and blowing the cover of someone on the inside) for their own political goals.

Add in Cheney's statements the day before the arrests and it is just too well timed to just be a coincidence. You don't need a long lead time to manipulate events to your favor, just 12 hours or so will let you setup your echo chamber.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 03:33 AM
Response to Reply #29
39. ...and
the Home Secretary in the UK also made foreshadowing statements the day before the arrests about giving up freedoms to save democracy (or some such bullsh*t).
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
30. Thank you DA!!
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 01:14 AM
Response to Original message
31. Agreed. Just because Bush is an idiot-moron, doesn't mean KKKarl
is behind every world event. The guy is not THAT smart - if he was Bush should have better than 35% approval ratings.

Karl Rove is just a plump potato & will remain that way as long as we stop ENABLING him through our own paranoia.
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raysr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
32. They can't let
attack actually happen, that would work in reverse. This way they can say "See we're stopping attacks and keeping you safe." I'm quite sure there are those out there who want to do us harm, but how come the timing is always politically favorable for *?
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
36. Karl Rove is the anti-christ...
that's how he was able to plan all this. :evilgrin:
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
37. I sorta of disagree
He only works on these kind of things full time 24/7 with a staff to
spin, destroy opponents, propagandize that is what he does, he doesn't care if programs work or not
this is what he does and has done since he started his career...He is a punk, not a genius.

He works on no programs to build this nation.

I know you don't need a list or his history.
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