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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:33 PM
Original message
If one or two or more guys on a plane were mixing chemical
cocktails and I saw it, I might become suspicious.

In fact, after 911 most people would probably have attacked the mixers.

How long does it take to mix one of this things up and detonate it.

Wouldn't it be obvious?

Were they gonna mix it in the bathroom, which might even cause more suspicion.

Just some questions, I have.

If you got the answers, let me know.
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demosincebirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. So what are you saying
Let them board and hope someone will spot them?
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. obviously not, the question is this:
is it really a good plot, more than likely they would be attacked if they tried it in this day and age.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. if they were planning to mix TATP in place, they are probably...
...pretty hapless. The most likely result would be a premature explosion unless they could keep the reactants cold. I wonder if these guys have ever actually made and (controlled) detonated any TATP. It sounds pretty unlikely.
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. more likely they made the TATP at home
and then they were going to smuggle it in containers of gatorade, then assemble the detonators in the bathrooms.

No way could you make TATP on a plane. Not enough time.

Remember, Richard Reid the shoe bomber had a pack of TATP in his shoes that he walked on board.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. Before today the idea of binary explosives never came up. All of
a sudden everybody is an expert & they are easy to obtain & use. I recall the "Suitcase Nukes" craze of a couple of years ago. What utter horse shit all this is.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I really don't understand the chemistry of it all, but I do have some
common sense.

I wonder how these guys, who each brought a part of the bomb separately on to the airplane, were gonna put it together with no one noticing.
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Search the following sometime
WW2 + Messerschmitt Me 163 + rocket fuel. The links will give you the two components of the rocket fuel that was used for the engines which were only brief case sized. One of them is a concentrated form of an everyday hair bleach. Both components are highly corrosive but stable until mixed. You wouldn't need anyone to notice - the explosion would be instantaneous. I learned that from an Open University program late one night on BBC2 some years back. The German's were daft enough to use metal fuel lines - a high number of the planes blew up on their way to their targets as the fuel corroded the fuel lines. The planes killed more of their own pilots than allied aircrew.

Do not try this at home . :)
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. so the instance you mixed it, it would explode. It doesn't need
a charge or anything?

If so, that would help clear up some of my questions.

Thanks your answers!
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Don't need nothing
instant - devasting explosion. The TV University Chemistry program was about what determines the rate at which chemicals combine. There's other stuff we used to play with when we were about 14 years old. Two household products which when combined are perfectly stable when wet but highly unstable when dry - just a puff of wind would trigger the reaction. We used to blow cast iron manhole covers at lunchtime while at school.

They used to say that the IRA bombers didn't use anything more sophisticated than a 14 year old with a reasonable knowledge of chemistry couldn't also manage.

No I won't tell you what the products are. Suffice it to say you wouldn't mix them by accident. :)
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'd either kick their asses or demand some of what they were drinking
:toast:
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
7. Are you suspicious of everyone who goes to the bathroom?
I see this as a very simple task to covertly accomplish. The contact lense bottles are in your pocket. You go to the restroom, mix your stuff, toss out the empty bottle so you don't get them mixed up. Put the mixed concoction back in your pocket, and return to your seat.

What would arrouse suspicion? Because several men went to the rest room?

Don't fly much, huh?
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. umm, they each had a separte part of the bomb.
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 05:51 PM by MassDemm
they would have to be handing things off to one another once on the plane.

And the guy goes to the bathroom after he gathers all the parts and makes it back to his seat without exploding himself all over the plane.

oh and on edit:

stop being sanctimonious. I believe the terror plot existed. I just don't think it would work now a days. See how much you know by reading things into someone's post that isn't there.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I've heard all kind of stories about how it would be done.
I've heard several people each had one part of the mix; some said each person had both parts of the mix, and were each were going to detonate their own in different parts of the plane; and some said the liquid didn't have to be mixed with anything, but detonated with some electrical device like a watch, PDA, or cell phone.

IF this story is valid, it seems to me the designers would be smart enough to be inconspicuous.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. If it was an overseas flight, as
they are claiming, about mid flight people are punchy and collecting near one of the open areas. What they do and say ... nobody cares. The rest are zoning, watching movies, napping, reading eating, or talking.

Especially if they're British nationals; their English might have a tinge of Urdu or Sindi, maybe even Baluchi, but their accents will say "British." Not even educated British.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
14. I don't think they were setting up a mobile lab in the aisle.
You get two or three people sitting together and no one would notice it. It's not like they were taking out measuring cups and scales - if someone with a gatorade bottle quickly puts it between him and the guy next to him and the second guy simply pours some of his drink in it or empties a pill bottle into it - that would take about 3-5 seconds. Do it as soon as the Stay Seated light goes off or during beverage service when people are moving around the most and preoccupied. Seems pretty easy to me, and that's just off the top of my head - I'm not a terrorist who's sat around thinking up ways.
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
15. Are you going to go into the bathroom with them?
That was Richard Reid's biggest mistake. He should have gone to the bathroom to light the shoe. That and a lighter would have been a big plus.

There are places on planes where you are not being watched (as far as I know).
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