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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:48 PM
Original message
Lock this Post and Thread , Please...Can't Discuss.
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 05:38 PM by KoKo01
why are families with little children and elderly and disabled PENALIZED by Michael Chertoff and Homeland Security?

Why is it all these years after 9/11 average folks are forced to throw out Toothpaste, Deoderant, Hair Gel, Shampoo,Bottled Water, Tampons, Make Up, Blush, Wrinkle Creams, Sunscreen, Moisturizers, Medications "without our name on prescription bottle" (Rush Limbaugh, anyone?) Witch Hazel, Rubbin Alcohol, Ben Gay, Topical Anti-Biotic Creams, Athlete's Foot Medication, Gel Insoles, Kid's Games with Floaties, and all the rest of it...because BUSH & CO CANNOT TO THIS DAY...get their ACT TOGETHER!!! AND...NEITHER can his POODLE BLAIR?

How many average American Fliers fit the "Profile of Terrorists" with their passport or "Credit Card I.D." (Bush Co.. supposedly is monitoring and DataMining all of our info) and we've gotten used to so many invasions of our "Freedoms" all these years...WHAT HAVE WE GIVEN OUR FREEDOMS UP FOR?

I'm sorry if folks from countries that might support Terrorism feel "profiled" and "marked" if security pulls them out. THEY ARE NOT TO BLAME! But, an Average family flying with little kids or the average Elderly who needs a walker or wheel chair (like my Mother-in-Law) who has no record of "flagged terrorist activity" should NOT BE REQUIRED TO BE HARRASSED, SEARCHED and treated LIKE A CRIMINAL! I wonder if folks in GB aren't getting tired of this, also

WE ARE NOT ALL GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT!

They told us they have the MOST SOPHISTICATED MONITORING SYSTEMS IN PLACE and that's why they monitor all of us Americans....YET..these were PAKISTANI! How many PAKISTANI's look like MOST TRAVELERS? How many US TRAVELERS LOOK LIKE the "19 Terrorists who Commandeered Planes on 9/11?"

America and Great Britain are filled with Immigrants....BUT...should we HARRASS EVERYONE when surely the profiles could segment out the FEW?

Ethnic Profiling is Dreadful...but the Bush Co. has hidden behind that. We can DO BETTER THAN THIS....WE've PAID BILLIONS TO DO BETTER THAN THIS!!!

:shrug:

BTW! Hubby and I are part of an INTERNATIONAL SMALL BUSINESS and we understand what GLOBILIZATION is all about...and we understand how the "color of one's skin or ethnicity" SHOULD NOT BE an ASSUMPTION OF TERRORISM. I'm talking though about folks whose PROFILE SHOULD BE SUSPECT if folks here were "doing their job."
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. Umm...you HOPE that doesn't offend?
if wishes were horses frogs wouldn't bump their asses hopping.
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
77. LOL
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. while I see what you mean I think you need to look at it this way
you would feel differently if you were innocent but "looked guilty"

or did you mean like Tim McVeigh?
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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Darn, I got my "Timothy McVeigh" comment in about 3 seconds after yours nt
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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. Two words:
Timothy McVeigh.

Expand your imagination a bit -- I'm sure the terrorists are.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Timothy McVeigh didn't use an Airline to do his horrendous DEED!
We have the FBI to take care of the Timothy's.
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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. No he didn't . . . but he easily could have. And as I recall . . .
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 05:05 PM by MrModerate
The FBI wasn't notably successful in "taking care" of him.

As I say, expand your imagination. While terrorists seem to favor public transportation (and specifically aviation) for obvious reasons, they will continue to seek new ways to make their hits. The UK has home-grown jihadists and so does the US. People who look just like me (see my avatar) are just as capable of terrorist acts as that dark-skinned fellow you want to have cavity-searched while I sail through the checkpoint with a cursory glance at my bags.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
33. So...you say "he could have" but didn't? What kind of argument is that?
sheesh.
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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #33
67. If you're trying to protect people, you have to . . .
Consider potential risks, evaluate their likelihood, and device strategies to counter them. We have incontrovertible proof that blonde, blue-eyed men in their early 30s sometimes blow things up for twisted quasi-political reasons. Any security planner who disregards that fact would rightly be considered incompetent.

Any security planner who said "let's check everyone who looks like a Muslim" would also be rightly considered incompetent and would quite likely be contributing to the problem -- by increasing the climate of alienation and distrust that leads people to become terrorists in the first place.

That kind of argument.
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CrushTheDLC Donating Member (448 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
60. Uh, if I remember correctly, it was Tim who "took care of" the FBI
Or 168 or them, at least. :(
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. One part of this is....
how much are the murkin people willing to put up with???

Part of this is our willing complicity.

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gimama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'll fly again,when I sprout Wings..
Their ineptitude gives them excuse to trash our rights, inconvenience & stress us out, AND we can pay exorbitant fares, security & fuel fees???

Where 'they' want to take US, I'm not goin'.

O, and if the Queen had balls, she'd be king.
;}
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. Sorry but... a Pakistani who is not a terrorist is no more guilty than
anyone else. Profiling would only cause them to seek other means... other disguises... or they would find ways to sneak bombs or weapons into others' suitcases (or your MIL's wheelchair) then after they are searched as potential terrorists because they happen to have dark skin or are from a country that is "suspect", they could retrieve their contraband from their unwitting transporters.

Nope. Profiling is bad all the way around.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I understand what you say...which is why I cautioned in my post.....
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 05:00 PM by KoKo01
but, families with children and elderly subjected to this kind of stuff is really throwing out in a "ROUND UP" and yet we fail to really do the "profiling" we paid all that money to do.

If you are Pakistani and have legit passport then you should be able to pass through and not be subjected to anything. AND...they assured us that all PASSPORTS would be checked...because we US CITIZENS spent Billions in Tax Dollars to do this since "9/11."

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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. You actually think that any airline would allow any passenger on any
plane without proper identification? The terrorists from Saudi Arabia who hijacked the planes in 2001 had valid passports. I don't get what you're saying.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. And Then, Look for Terrorists With Bomb-Laden Children
Don't think it will happen? Think again.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. You think a terrorist with a "Suicide Belt" strapped on to his Kids could
get through even our CURRENT REGS before this latest "crackdown?"

Seems you are mixing "Apples and Oranges," here. :shrug:
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. How about a kid with a bottle of orange juice. I doubt that anyone with
a "suicide belt" would get past security. I think you're mixing apples and oranges.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Under What You Propose, Yes
Because we don't want to bother the famwwies with chiiiiiiidwen.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. Sorry, but I'm inclined to agree somewhat with the OP on this one.
When law enforcement is looking for a kidnapper and they say it was a 50 YO white man, they're probably not going to be thoroughly investigating all the black men who pass through a check point!

I am a white female, 62. If i was visiting some other country and they were searching for an older white woman who they thought was American, I would EXPECT to be search, investigated and detained until I could prove I was not a threat.

I believe there's a difference between "profiling" and racially targeting a particular group.

I sure don't have any desire to live in Israel, especially NOW, but El Al airlines does a very good job with their security and they don't even KNOW the words politically correct! If you fly, you are interviewed, if they don't believe you, you don't fly! Period!

I'm not suggesting that we need to go quite that far, but I do think this politically correct, watch out or you'll offend someone stuff is getting out of hand.
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. They are looking for a specific person, not a race or ethnicity.
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 05:11 PM by Misunderestimator
(In your law enforcement example, that is.)

You, a white female of 62, COULD be recruited by a terrorist organization. And if profiling were the norm, you can BET that's what would happen next. They would be recruiting women and parents and anyone who wouldn't be "suspect." We just have to look back to Vietnam to know that that happens.

You comparison about El Al Airlines doesn't make sense to me. "If you fly, you are interviewed, if they don't believe you, you don't fly!" Yes? And? Nowhere in there do I see "If you are dark-skinned you are interviewed, but if you are white, you are not."

This is NOT about offending anyone. This is just common sense. If we profile, terrorists will find a way around it. If we profile, we are leaving ourselves OPEN for attack through that avenue.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #23
38. Perhaps I didn't fully explain what "If they don't believe you" means.
It is totally up to the interviewer to decide if you are to get on that plane. It could e they don't trust your smile, don't like the clothes ou're wearing, OR where you're from!

They totally believe in profiling!

I personally think they go too far with their program, and that no one can EVERY be completely safe! For people to think they can be is just foolish.

And BTW, terrorists might try to recruit me, but guess what? They'd fail! See, I really believe it takes a special kind of thinking, or teaching, or training, for anyone to decide to give their own life for ANY CAUSE! You seem to be forgetting that part.

I could be recruited to maybe peddle MJ or some drug...for the right price and the right amount of convincing that I wouldn't get caught, but DIE FOR IT???? Nooooo
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. It might fail with YOU, but it wouldn't fail with every 62 year old white
woman... For example... Someone who has a terminal illness and is promised money that will go to her survivors if she sacrifices her life, when she's going to die anyway, but penniless. I don't think it would be too difficult to recruit people like that, especially if it's for something they believe in. Or someone who is suicidal... or just someone who's off his or her rocker and wants to "BE" someone. There are a LOT of people in this world who would not get caught in that profiling net who could potentially be quite lethal.
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ProudToBeBlueInRhody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. It's called a Catch-22
You don't want profiling....don't bitch about the long lines.

You think profiling is okay.....prepare to listen to the world's smallest violin from a lot of people.
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. You really think the long lines are about screening people?
How many stories have there been since the new "security" measures took effect about people smuggling all kinds of things (guns, knives, and explosives) on commercial aircraft. TSA and their $8/hour employees aren't about screening. They're about keeping the fear baseline up.

Please.
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ProudToBeBlueInRhody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. I'm advocating we should take the damn process seriously
You'll get no argument from me that airport security sucks. If I ran things, nobody would want to fly. And I'd tell them too fucking bad....walk.
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. They ARE taking the process seriously
The process has absolutely nothing to do with security, and even less to do with flying. The process is to keep that fear percolating just enough to drive the noise machine. Mission accomplished.
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CountAllVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
11. it angers me - I never plan to fly anywhere again


On my trip they went through every single bottle of drugs I had with me with MY NAME ON THE LABEL AND A DOCTOR'S LETTER!

I was searced at Heathrow for no damn reason.

I was harrassed and discriminated against.

I even got physically harmed!

No one gives a shit because it was not them.

Never again will I fly on an airplane.

I'll take a train or a boat or a bus next time around! :grr:

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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
12. Indian women use Secret deodorant too.
That's the problem with profiling.

Mrs. Shreeya Patel from Modesto, California who is visiting her grandkids in Phoenix can't be stripped of her toiletries if Mr. Sean O'Leary from Seattle isn't. O'Leary could have more nefarious intentions than Mrs. Patel but he doesn't "look the part."
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
13. Having Children Doesn't Entitle Anyone to a Free Pass
I am so sick of this "but think of the chiiiiiildren" type arguments. Yes, Junior may have to do without his "floaty" game and someone else may have to do without a bottle of water. Everyone puts up with inconveniences.

As for who looks like a terrorist, please - if you can tell by looking, why are you wasting your time here, when you could be helping rid the world of them with your special sight?
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
14. These terror scares
are all about controlling us through fear, nothing more. If they occasionally make us safer that's just coincidental.

If they really wanted to protect us they would stop bombing the shit out of civilians in Iraq etc.
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partylessinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
29. Winner!!!

Most truthful, WINNING POST!

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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
16. Ummmmmmm
There were native Americans in (J)Oklahoma that were beaten to death after 9/11 because they ****looked*** middle eastern to somebody. I guess you've forgotten.

And what of us single folks who are not elderly and have no record of "flagged terrorist activity"? Are we not innocent until proven guilty?


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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. No Magical Children = No Special Consideration
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 05:10 PM by REP
Remember, people with children never, ever do anything wrong ever or would ever use their children. :sarcasm:

(Like pro-lie terrorist Shelly Shannon, who set fire to clinics with her young daugher before she shot Dr Tiller. To name just one.)
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. You post that this is "sarcasm" yet your post seems to say you are serious
in that you think that a family of a terroist would strap bombs on their kids hidden under a little shirt in Summer and BLOW UP a PLANE!

I don't know folks like that....but maybe You Do? :shrug:
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Read The Papers, Love
Gave you one example. There are many more.

No, I don't know scum. But I know of them.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. Do you have some links? Because you ask me to "read the papers"
but don't give me anything to go on. :shrug:
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ProudToBeBlueInRhody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. You think it's never going to happen?
Teenage boys strap bombs to their bodies and blow up buses and small cafes, killing about a dozen people. What is so outrageous about one doing it in the air to kill hundreds.

Give it ten years, with the rate this administration is going as far as our so-called security, car bombs and suicide bombs on a weekly basis in New York City will be routine.
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Nicole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
52. I'm in Oklahoma
and I don't remember any Native Americans being beaten to death after 9/11 because they looked middle eastern. I can't find anything on Google either.

Do you have a link where I could read about it?

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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #52
68. I remember the Indian store clerk being murdered in Phoenix though
because he "looked" middle eastern. :(
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Nicole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. I remember that as well
If I recall correctly, a Lebanese American was also shot that day in Phoenix but survived.

I just can't believe it happened in my own state & I completely missed it. :(
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
27. Couldn't these same people have walked into ...
any mall, shopping center, entertainment center or any other place with a lot of people before they went to board a plane. Why are we suppose to think that airplanes are the only place that terrorists will try to hit?
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FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
32. I am first-generation American citizen, born to Asian parents
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 05:23 PM by FredScuttle
If I'm getting pulled out of line for suspicion, then your fucking ass better be pulled out too, kids or no kids, elderly or no elderly.

I have nothing to apologize for....I am a citizen and I have been long past tired of being singled out for suspicion for my skin color. I am not any less a citizen than anyone else.

on edit - forgot your "Pakistanis" line....I LOOK LIKE A FUCKING PAKISTANI...you have a problem with that?
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. If Bush Co. had been fair and done their job then YOU, nor your Family
should be PROFILED any more than the rest of us. THAT WAS MY POINT!!
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. I'm asking Mods to "LOCK THIS POST" because it Can't be Discussed.
which is sad...because it needs to be discussed because no matter who we are the BushCo.'s have WAY OVEREACHED!

There just isn't any rational way to discuss some issues that are critical, which is kind of sad since we are a small group which should be able to hash this out and come to a conclusion.

I ALERTED MODS...I'm going to ask them to LOCK IT.
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. Because people disagree with you you want it locked?
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 05:52 PM by Misunderestimator
Last I heard discussion sometimes includes disagreement. You knew you might offend some people since the subject of your OP (before you edited it just now) pretty much said so.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. She's taking her ball and going home?
Eh.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. ROFL..I don't do that stuff, buddy...I'm a Junk Yard Dog when it comes to
my posts...but I felt that what I posted would be "misconstrued," when I was trying to make a "bigger point" to EXPAND the conversation.

I forgot how many DU'ers just read the "Subject Line" and can't do "Reflective Thinking" and that's why I wanted to LOCK my post. I'm not INTO being a DU'er who does TRASHING. I don't look to hurt folks feelings...

So...I figured I didn't make my case well enough for discussion and it was FLAME BAIT...because I failed to make the point of what I was trying to say. Or maybe, what I was trying to say hit a "nerve so deep" that no Discussion CAN EVER OCCUR?

:shrug:
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. Buddett, actually.
Maguppies, no doinker.

I reckon it'll be locked pretty soon. Mods generally respond to a request from the OP.
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #50
58. Just read your subject line? Are you kidding?
You didn't say anything but how you didn't want to offend anyone in your subject line. It was your entire OP that generated the conversation about profiling.

How do you get that it's flamebait from any of the responses? You did likely offend some people, as you expected, but mainly the posts have been clearly in response to your entire OP.

What was your point then? If not that there should be profiling and that people who don't fit the profile shouldn't have to be bothered by added security?
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. Well to be fair, it IS being discussed!
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #37
43. Don't lock, I was discussing this
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #43
51. Well, stop that.
:hi:
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FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. Hey, I'm not the one moaning about "Pakistanis don't look like Americans"
If you're going to peddle that nonsense, expect to hear from Americans who do.

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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
44. Damn - I missed the fun! Is this another "brown skin = not look american"
thread?

shucks - i never get to have any fun!

hrmph.
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. kinda, it's a "don't harass white people at the airport" thread n/t
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #46
56. Ah. Because white folks "look American" - and by silent contrast...
Genius.

And then white folks are shocked (shocked!) in other threads to "discover" the existence of bigotry in America!

:rofl:

You guys slay me!
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. That is SO GROSS and Undermines the Point of my Post...
Unbelievable. :-(
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #47
57. What was the point?
That white grannies shouldn't be screened, but brown men should, because they look like the 9-11 hijackers?

That's the point I got.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #57
71. The point is to BE racist, without SOUNDING racist. Duh.
That way "good whites" can sit back and happily claim "it's not about race, it's about class" all day long.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #57
72. There really IS a point there...if Homeland Security was doing it's job
with the MONEY we gave them...then most Brown Skins, and in-betweens would get through those lines without any problem. If there are any "white skinned" Granny's that fit terror profiles then let them be detained. If there are any Brown Skinned (or in-between shades of color) then let only those with some "background check" that flags be detained. Let ALL OF THE REST OF US GO THROUGH!

Homeland Security is a FARCE! A BIG MONEY GRUBBING AGENCY allowing Chertoff and others to make themselves EVEN MORE WEALTHY while ALL OF US SUFFER!
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
48. I had a Crim Law Prof who LITERALLY wrote the book on racial profiling
Prof. David Harris, "Profiles in Injustice" http://www.profilesininjustice.com /

I can't recommend this book enough, and not just because he was my prof. because it's brilliant, and thouroughly researched.
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
49. So what - Semites are screened?
and nobody else?

Or just Semite men? or Asian and Semite looking men between the ages of 16 and 65?


I don't know what criteria you are thinking about - but it sounds like the terror scares are having their affect.

Turn off CNN.

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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
54. Because all it takes is some tattoos, a nose ring and bleached hair...
and a terrorist becomes, Tony Kanal the bass player from No Doubt.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #54
73. That's what's wrong with this SYSTEM FUKED UP BUSHIES put in PLACE!
ALL OF US ARE PROFILED...but WHO SHOULD BE PROFILED?
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
55. What about the pregnant Irish Catholic woman
who was discovered to have explosives in her luggage just before she was about to board an El-Al flight? This was in the mid-80s. Her boyfriend was a member of (I think) Abu Nidal, and he was using her to attempt to blow up the airplane. She didn't know what was in her luggage (nice boyfriend!), but the incident shows that a non-Middle Eastern person could, indeed, be carrying carrying a bomb. Maybe they don't know about it, like this woman. Obviously there are some people who are evil enough to take advantage of an innocent person who doesn't fit the "profile." And some terrorists themselves don't fit the profile, either. Racial/ethnic profiling is not only unfair to innocent people, but it doesn't work!
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BooScout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
59. Lock it why? Because most people think you are wrong?
Fucking hell. Do you not think you have a wee bit of racism tinging your post? Sorry if the rules of flying bother you when you are inconvenienced and searched. What an incredibly thoughtless attitude.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #59
74. No...because most didn't get my point.....and I could see that...and that
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 08:00 PM by KoKo01
folks felt something that wasn't intended...but there was a "barb" in my post to get folks thinking and discussing. Folks got the "barb" but not the point to discuss. It was my fault for not expanding my post to make it more understandable. I relied on that I'd been on DU awhile and so most folks would get where I was coming from.

I don't want to hurt folks op post flame bait so I alerted mods before I alerted my post.

It's really turned out to be a FLAME BAIT post...it needs to go down.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
61. Um, while I think it sucks for anyone who was travelling this morning...
...those are the only people being forced to throw anything away. By the afternoon, everyone knew how to pack for the new regulations. I have friends flying from England today - by the time they got to the airport at noon, they already knew about it and were prepared.

As for the folks in GB and other countries, they are regularly searched and their bags thoroughly inspected (much, much more so than we've ever seen here) because they choose to face the reality of today's world rather than ignore it like most Americans do. It's what we should be doing here.

I for one have NO problem standing in a long security line, having my bags searched, having to check my deodorant, etc. if it means I'm going to land at my destination alive. To me, that's not a huge price to pay for my life.
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
62. When we went to SF two years ago, all five of us were subjected
to the 'next level' of searching. Shoes, belts, the whole shebang. We're white, middle class, pretty Irish looking if I had to be more definite.

I didn't like it. BUT, I would dislike MUCH more, my brother being pulled over every time he flew because he 'looks' Middle Eastern. He does. He's dark, tall, (very good looking, actually) and since his first wife passed, a bit angry looking in addition to being swarthy.
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
63. I agree with you 100%
pray tell me the reason for throwing out a 5 year old kids bottle of juice that he has been drinking from becasue Pakistani-British terror suspects were planning to use liquid explosives? Have we all gone mad?
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Heddi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
64. My husband is American but, depending on the person looking at him
he looks Mexican, "Latino", middle eastern, or like Justin Timberlake--depends on how long and curly his hair is, or how short and cropped his hair is. It depends on how tan or how pale he is. Whether he's wearing birkenstocks or sensible loafers. Whether he's wearing shorts or jeans or slacks.

Every time we fly, we get searched. I've been in SeaTac airport and seen DOZENS upon DOZENS of people ahead of us pass by without a second glance, but the Heddi's come through the line--look out. We're taken aside,bags rifled through, shampoo bottles shaken and sniffed. Shoes removed, socks removed, coats removed, fluff your hair, take your hair out of the ponytail, etc etc.

So please--I'd like to know in YOUR opinion what a "non terrorist" looks like---because i've been with my husband for 9 years, married for 6, and he doesn't look like a terrorist, or even a "non american"---yet he gets profiled on every trip we take. Even Amtrack gave him shit when we rode from Orlando to Charleston a few years ago.

Since you're so good at "I can tell the Americans from the Terrorists" then why are you spending such valuable time on DU? Get thyself to teh FBI, the DHS, the airports for god's sake---they NEED you!!! The babies with floaty tools and the old ladies with tubes of aspercreme NEED you. Our country NEEDS you :eyes:
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Heddi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #64
70. And I want to add
that I do not agree with the OP even though we are ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS profiled. I don't necessarily feel SAFER because of it, but it does piss me off that little Granma Moses gets to wheel past security because *sob* she's in a wheelchair (with 20 pounds of shit in a bag on the back of the wheelchair, and a tank of some compressed gas that is labled Oxygen) but 2 30-somethings with long hair and birkenstocks get grabbed because *gasp* we might be some of those new-fangled, home-grown terrorists. Whatever.

I've seen parents throw fucking FITS because they and their precious children were being flagged for a search. HOW DARE THEY ask to look under the seat of the stroller, or to look at the contents of the diaper bag! How utterly disgusting. But it's okay that we have our shit rifled through, my undies scrutinized like I've got radioactive vag juice, my books flipped through, shampoo sniffed and sniffed again, etc.

If I'm going to be searched, then YOU and your child and your wheelchair bound granma should be searched. Because if there's the possibility that *I* am a terrorist, or that my *husband* is a terrorist, then *YOU* could be a terrorist. Little diaper-wearing JOHNNY could be a terrorist. 90 year old GRANDPA could be a terrorist.

Why should only a few people be inconvenienced? Why shoudl grampa get a free pass because he's grampa in a wheelchair when grampa of the same age who is mobile gets searched? Is there some covenant in the Terrorist Book of Terrorism that says grampas in wheelchairs are OFF LIMITS? Please.

And I've yet to hear from the OP what a "real american" looks like. According to the OP, they don't look like Pakistanis, or more that Pakistanis don't look like citizens (whatever the fuck that means). And of course it never comes to the OP's mind that once one group is searched EXCLUSIVELY to the exclusion of another, then the group that is ROUTINELY EXCLUDED from searches will soon be the ones that are the ones to carry on the 'bad stuff' since it is well known that people who look like Americans will NEVER be searched, or searched at a much lower rate than people who do NOT look like Americans are.

what a fucking bunch of racist claptrap
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #70
76. BTW...you did know that Ted Kennedy and some DU'ers have been
caught in that PROFILING, TOO. Ted Kennedy!
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #64
75. So...would you agree that "Homeland Security" is a disaster and that
the so called "profiling" doesn't work? That's the point of my post! WE ARE ALL BEING PROFILED because THEY HAVEN'T DONE THEIR JOBS!!! ALL OF US!
PENALIZED!!!
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
65. Profiling would only work if it was done secretly.
As soon as it becomes public knowledge that certain types of people are not going to be searched as thoroughly, anyone with sufficient ingenuity to blow up a plane will not find it difficult to recruit such a person.

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link; airport security is only as good as the lowest level of search applied to people.

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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
66. profiling works for El Al
.
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
78. Locked
at request of the Original Poster
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