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HELP! Is the "72 virgins" reward for terrorists in the Koran?

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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:48 PM
Original message
HELP! Is the "72 virgins" reward for terrorists in the Koran?
Someone on another board thinks it is. It isn't, is it?
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lastknowngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. It is for a matter. It is against the Koran to kill innocents.
n/t
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. Here, read this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/saturday_review/story/0,3605,...

I don't know too much about this topic, but I've read this a few times over and it seems to have some good info.
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Lost-in-FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. I heard the real translation was...
72 "pastries" like "jelly doughnuts" :shrug: I dunno nothing about that obviously.
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Sir Jeffrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. Here...
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. What's the difference between that and
WASP soldiers being told they are 'going to heaven paved in gold' if they get killed in action blowing up brown people?

I don't get it. What's the fucking difference.

They are both silly lies
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. There are no virgins in the Koran, sorry
Two points need to be noted. First, there is no mention anywhere in the Koran of the actual number of virgins available in paradise, and second, the dark-eyed damsels are available for all Muslims, not just martyrs.

It is in the Islamic Traditions that we find the 72 virgins in heaven specified: in a Hadith (Islamic Tradition) collected by Al-Tirmidhi (died 892 CE ) in the Book of Sunan (volume IV, chapters on The Features of Paradise as described by the Messenger of Allah , chapter 21, About the Smallest Reward for the People of Paradise, (Hadith 2687). The same hadith is also quoted by Ibn Kathir (died 1373 CE ) in his Koranic commentary (Tafsir) of Surah Al-Rahman (55), verse 72: "The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: 'The smallest reward for the people of paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah to Sana'a '."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,2763,631357,...
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Hatalles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. Yes and no.
It's a matter of interpretation. In either case of virgins or white raisins, it's a metaphor.

Whats this about 72 virgins - Myth or Truth?
4/24/2004 3:00:00 PM GMT



Whats this about 72 virgins - Myth or Truth?

I simply wanted to ask what is the background of the stories I hear about 72 virgins and automatically going to heaven. Are these based in facts? Are they documented in authorized religious texts?

I have also seen reports on the internet where Muslims are allowed to break promises to Jews and not repay loans.

Are these acts of propaganda?

I would like to know what are the truths according to Islamic teachings about Jihad's and also about what I have read about some of the more violent things I have read.

I admit I know nothing about Islam and with that admission I request that someone can help to answer my questions.

Open Mind, USA


Dr Kareems Responce

This 72 virgins story has been abused and used as a propaganda tool by Muslims and non-Muslims alike. As with most things, the answer is in the interpretation.

Firstly with respect to suicide and therefore suicide bombers, suicide is not referred to in the Quran but is forbidden in the Traditions (Hadith in Arabic), which are the collected sayings and doings attributed to the Prophet and traced back to him through a series of trustworthy witnesses.

However a distinction needs to be between the martyr and the suicide bomber. A martyr killed in a real Jihad is an honorable thing to do in Islam, and rewards in paradise for this are offered. What occurred on 911 was not a Jihad, but mass murder. In Iraq Ayatollah Ali Sistani - the leader of the majority of Shia's has not declared a Jihad, similarly in Afghanistan and its religious authorities.

The Quran does make reference to virgins, though the definition of the word virgin is disputed. Some claim the definition of the Arabic word "Abkarun" is not virgins, but Angels.

Christopher Luxenberg's book, Die Syro-Aramaische Lesart des Koran, available only in German, has an enjoyed an enthusiastic reception, particularly among those scholars with a knowledge of several Semitic languages at Princeton, Yale, Berlin, Potsdam, Erlangen, Aix-en-Provence, and the Oriental Institute in Beirut.

Luxenberg tries to show that many obscurities of the Quran disappear if we read certain words as being Syriac and not Arabic. Luxenberg claims that the context makes it clear that it is food and drink that is being offered, and not unsullied maidens or houris (virgins).

In Syriac, the word hur is a feminine plural adjective meaning white, with the word "raisin" understood implicitly.


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Hatalles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
8. Also, here's a mention of virgins in the Bible...
"Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourself every girl who has never slept with a man." (Numbers 31:17-18)
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
9. Virgins/servants are mentioned
in the Koran for anyone who goes to heaven (they sort of sound like angels).

The number 72 isn't mentioned, nor does it have anything to do with committing suicide (suicide and killing innocent people is forbidden in Islam).
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
10. Thanks everybody!!
:hi:
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
11. Wasn't it Bill Mahr who said....
72 virgins would sound like fun, but let me tell you, after the 3rd or 4th one, a pro would be nice.
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ps1074 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 04:38 AM
Response to Original message
12. the islamic terrorists are reading the Koran
Edited on Fri Aug-11-06 04:41 AM by ps1074
the way the Bush cabal is reading the Bible.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 05:02 AM
Response to Original message
13. It's BS and is not in the Koran
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