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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:31 PM
Original message
The 'explosive cocktail' thing isn't that farfetched
It worked once before.

"Though details are still sketchy, the broad outlines of the foiled plot to bomb airliners plying the Atlantic are eerily reminiscent of a decade-old attempt by an al-Qaeda linked group to massacre hundreds of airline passengers in that case aimed at U.S. airlines flying over the Pacific. That plot too targeted a dozen or so airliners and aimed to use a liquid explosive, a nitroglycerine-based concoction that was to have been smuggled on to the aircraft in hand-baggage. The plot, codenamed Bojinka a play on the Serbo-Croatian word for explosion by its Pakistani planners, came frighteningly close to fruition. In December of 1994, according to U.S. court documents, Ramzi Yousef and Wali Khan Amin Shah, were instrumental in the bombing of a Philippine airlines flight en route to Japan that was a dry run for their much more ambitious attempt to blow up a dozen jets simultaneously. They managed to smuggle a container of liquid explosive concealed in contact lens solution aboard the airplane on an earlier flight, leaving it under a seat in row 26. The explosion killed a Japanese man and forced the plane to make an emergency landing."

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1225152,...

James Bamford wrote about this incident in detail in his last book.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. I Haven't Checked In All Day. Were Some Saying It Isn't Possible?
I'm surprised. There are multiple ways to achieve such a liquid mixture.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. The story was that they were going to create an explosive from gatorade
it has now changed to something plausable.
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. no, the story was a gatorade like container
not a bomb made from gatorade
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. not according to CNN
Terrorists planned to use MP3 players and energy drinks to blow up as many as 10 jetliners bound for the United States, authorities said Thursday.

A senior congressional source said it's believed the plotters planned to mix a "British version of Gatorade" with a gel-like substance to make an explosive that they would possibly trigger with an MP3 player or cell phone.

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=175130
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
30. No, you missed the latest...
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 04:09 PM by Atman
The bottles had false bottoms with a core containing explosive liquid dyed to match the sports drink. So it could still be open and consumed should anyone ask.

Which begs the question...why would passenger be asked to sip their own baby formula and breast milk if the screeners already know that of false-bottomed containers which can be opened and their contents safely consumed?
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
38. I went through a london airport yesterday morning, Luton, to be exact.
We were traveling from London to France. They requested that we remove all laptops from their cases and scanned them specifically; They were very, very thorough on searching me, patting me down, limb by limb; carefully searched my (large) handbag, taking out each and every item and inspecting them carefully, and intensely checking for residue; and looked me in the eye and asked me (very politely) the usual questions; had my bag been out of my sight; had anyone asked me to carry anything, etc. They were taking it seriously, but handling it very well. I joked that my $600 bag never left my sight); they carefully inspected my digital camera, turning it off and on, and even looking at a picture. They then xrayed it specifically. They were patient, methodical and very polite and business-like. I didn't object at all, I felt they were just doing their jobs. At the time I was aware it was a highly unusual and thorough search, since europe rarely isn't as thorough as the USA. LAX security is really intense compared to european air travel, but I didn't think about it further until today.

I had no idea, nor did anyone else, that such a big story was about to break... as the news has come out today, I'm really glad they were as thorough as they were, and I fully believe that the scheme is absolutely real.

I'm REALLY glad I wasn't going through Heathrow; I still haven't heard from my friend catching the Virgin Air 11:30 am flight to LA.... I have to imagine she got through okay but hassled.

This is real.. it's not a bush regime scam being allowed to play out like 911. I'm glad someone's paying attention this time and not giving anyone a free pass.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Oh yeah. Lots of them
Pretending no one in the middle east wants to blow our stuff up.

I understand the skepticism due to all the politically motivitated and bullshit terra lerts done by Bushco over the past five years to try to bump up his polls. Those were clearly hogwash.

The current plot appears to be real and was cracked by UK officials.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I Have To Read More About It But I Have Zero Reason To Believe It Wasn't
real.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. No, It Is Not, Sir
The new wrinkle is the element of mixing precursor chemicals together, probably in the washroom, to obtain the explosive. Without knowing what these chemicals were, anything is speculative, but a number of readily concoctable explosive compounds are unstable and prone to deterioration in power over time, so there is somethin to be said for freshness, so to speak....
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geomon666 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Plus it's probably not the smartest thing to do.
Walking around with nitroglicerin in your pocket.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. Reueters link, NOT exploding Gatorade, used to hide explosives.
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/articlenews.aspx?type=t...
The suspects arrested in an airline bomb plot in Britain on Thursday had planned to conceal liquid or gel explosives inside a modified sports beverage drink container and trigger the device with the flash from a disposable camera, ABC News reported on its Web site.

The network, citing U.S. sources, also said five additional suspects in the airline bomb plot foiled by British police were still at large and being sought.

"The plotters planned to leave the top of the bottle sealed and filled with the original beverage but add a false bottom, filled with a liquid or gel explosive," ABC said. "The terrorists planned to dye the explosive mixture red to match the sports drink sealed in the top half of the container."...
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Yes, it's the containers not the products they normally contain
That fact seems to be lost on many of us.
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. So this plan was ASPIRATIONAL, right?
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Nikki Stone 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
7. I believe it's possible, Will. I just don't believe that it happened
the way they said it did this time. I really think this Code Red madness is about the election.

My guess is that lots of plots are foiled all the time, but they are rarely reported to avoid public unrest. The ones that are reported are either faked or were easily handled, and they are exploited for political gain. Real threats, like the California bridge threat, are usually kept under wraps, unless you get a Gray Davis spilling the beans. Remember how ticked off the White House was that Davis even told Californians?
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warrior1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. What Nikki said Will
It's not that it isn't possible but it's the timing.
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WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. Ditto what Nikki said. Cheney knew about this before he attacked Lamont
according to a post by kpete.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. They took a ladies $100.00 makeup tube for that? And...her Blush!
They are combing through tampons and deoderant...for that? What about all that money we've spent on "profiling" terrorists? What about the "no fly list." We Americans have "supposedly" given up freedoms and huge amounts of money so that things would get better with airline safety.

Where did that money go? We have police who can put out a composite photo and good description of murderers based on PROFILING. They wiretap our phones and surveil us with cameras. They data mine every bit of info on us...and they can't figure out that a well-dressed older woman who looks like someones "stylish granny" doesn't have terrorist making chemicals in her Elizabeth Arden Makeup?
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abluelady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. I Agree With You
It is hard when you cannot trust your leaders. This may very well be a real possibility. But the timing is too ironic. Bush's numbers low; Leiberman losing...The timing is very suspect.
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
28. as opposed to the way Rick Perry was treated when he spilled the beans
I've never forgiven the bastards for this one either. Davis was ridiculed and vilified by the press. Perry got a pass.

Posted: 12/12/2001 04:46 pm
Last Updated: 12/12/2001 06:00 pm

Texas schools
Texas schools are on the alert. The state's governor says the FBI alerted him to a unspecific threat made against the state's schools.

The FBI says two people may try to retaliate against unknown Texas schools for the U.S. bombing in Afghanistan.

Governor Perry says the FBI compares the threats to the ones made a month or so ago against bridges across California."
http://www.wndu.com/news/122001/news_11288.php


and the quiet aftermath of Perry's announcement.

Dec. 14, 2001, 1:36PM
DPS: School threat is not credible

Associated Press
AUSTIN -- The Department of Public Safety said today that the vague terrorist threat against an unknown Texas school has been deemed not credible by the FBI.

"At this time, there is no information to suggest that a threat to a Texas school exists," said DPS spokeswoman Tela Mange.

The threat warning was withdrawn this morning and Texas law enforcement officials stress that Texas schools are safe, Mange said.

The FBI did not immediately return telephone calls to The Associated Press this morning. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/1173236.html


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Nikki Stone 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Why am I not surprised?
We have a bunch of selfish heartless politicos who don't give a SHIT about the country or its people. The Katrina response is who they are.
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. couldn't have said it better myself
But I wouldn't have been able to express it without a string of highly undignified profanities like you did.

I've seen the Davis terror threat mentioned several times on different threads. I haven't seen anyone mention the Perry one. I thought this was a good chance to remind everyone.
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Nikki Stone 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #32
44. Thanks for that
I just wish Americans had an attention span of more than 24 hours
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panader0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
9. I think that when the US becomes less reliant on oil, and especially
gets OUT of the Middle East, when we get leaders with foresight and wisdom, we won't even have to worry about such crazy things as what kind of cosmetics combine to make an explosive. All "terrorism" will slowly evaporate, with the reasons that started it gone. The money spent in Iraq alone could have immunized the entire world for generations, or built dams and bridges, instead of blowing them up. Come home now, and concentrate on our own problems.
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WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
13. Gee, "Why do they HATE us so much?" Let me count the ways.....
U.S. (the land of Freedom that constantly oppresses the rights of others) and Israel (the land of the Holocaust Victims that continues to victimize others)
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
16. Exactly. Just drink enough LI Iced Teas, and you'll see for yourself!
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patcox2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
18. Its called the Bojinga plot, Ramsi Yousef
Ramsi Yousef, who blew up the bomb in the first WTC bombing, and is the nephew of the al queada "planner," khalid sheik muhammad," is in jail for it right now, in Colorado.
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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
19. As much as you post threads
regarding this incident, it won't matter. A large swath of DU'ers have decided that it is bullshit, no one will change their minds.

It's sad.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
20. Tap on your keyboard TWICE
if Karl is holding a gun to your head...
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
41. Bwhhaaaa....
:rofl:
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
22. Okay, so what's your point, WilliamPitt?
Explosives are common knowledge, at least among science geeks, terrorists, and other disreputable sorts. If you don't have any other resources you can make explosives out of urine if you know how. So far as I know, Homeland Security isn't making sure we all piss in the toilet and flush, not yet anyways.

Have you ever played with explosives, Will?

The big story here, if it is a big story, is that they caught some potential terrorists, and not what sort of explosive they were going to use.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. My point
is to address the multiple threads I've seen saying it is inconcievable that "Gatorade" could be used to blow up a plane.

It wasn't Gatorade, any more than it was contact lens solution in the incident described in the OP.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. I'm glad I'm skipping over those.
Thanks for your reply.

I don't think this is fake, but I also don't think this is any reason to run around like the sky is falling.

All the noise within the Bush Administration, and within the U.S. news media, elicits within me feelings of disgust, not fear of any sort.

http://www.tsa.gov :puke:


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Nikki Stone 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. What hunter said
THx!
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DemInDistress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #27
39. but why blow up a plane with some untried untested materials
when one can easily blow an electrical grid (major grid) that supplies electricity to MILLIONS? Or why not blow a chemical plant here in the shadow of NYC. CBS exposed how easily terrorists could do that last year, the gate wasn't even locked in this chlorine plant. Millions of NYC residents could have been killed so they said.
I don't get it Mr.Pitt taking down a few jets is small potato's compared to 911. Also, since they (MI5) were aware of this since December why now? Joe SoreLoserman?

Taking out a jet(or 10) compared to 911 can't be in the best interest of die hard martyr bound idiots.

Not to forget 10-20 pyropsycho's could burn down the West. No?

Your a cool character Will Pitt please don't trash me...
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. "taking down a few jets is small potato's compared to 911"
You think so? Imagine ten airplanes going down simultaneously over the Atlantic ocean. 200 people per plane x 10 planes = 2000 people and a really disruptive scare. All planes grounded, a huge economic hit to the airline industry, etc.

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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. So we only worry when people are killed quickly.
You dont care about the hundreds that are dieing slowly breathing in pollution.

The number of lives ruined by this junta far exceeds that number IMHO. How many of those would be passengers supported the abomination we are living under. Anyway!?

Will, get over it, We are living in a time where life is cheep, weather your American, Iraqi, or otherwise. 2500 Guard troops or 2000 citizens, what is the difference.

BUSH got us here, and no one is going to bail him or us out.

Best get used to the NEW TIME, or NEO TIME.
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #42
48. And there were 10 Westerners ready to commit suicide to do this?
Repeat after me: aspirational not operational.
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DemInDistress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #42
50. I can imagine 10 super mega transmission lines
going down taking down power to 90 million people for let's say 30 days. That's scary Will Pitt. Secondly, there was no guarantee that terror psycho's could accomplish that feat. If they did succeed yes, airlines would again be in trouble but not the kind of rioting that would come from lack of electricity for millions.

It will soon be August 14. Remember in 2003 the Great East Coast Blackout? Fortunately power was lost for mostly a day but what if Will Pitt massive damage was done and power to 50,000,000 people wouldn't be available for 1-2 weeks. That is scary. Toothpaste,shampoo and peroxide bombs would be small potato's.

I don't want an argument Mr. Pitt your too cool for me. Your stature here at DU is immeasurable.

Thanks for the feedback though.

Jimmy from the Bronx.
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6000eliot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
24. All I want to know is if they really HAD these explosives.
If they didn't, the whole thing is just more RW bullshit.
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90-percent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. well
If drinking Long Island Ice Teas makes you a terrorist, you all can just call me Osama Bin Laden's RIGHT HAND MAN!

I'll drink to that.

-85% Jimmy
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
26. It's not far-fetched at all - it's absolute fact.
It's fairly easy to do and the materials needed can be (scarily) everyday household items. And, the directions to hundreds of combinations can be found online.

What SCARES me is that the FAA and Homeland "Security" never considered the possibility before. Even after Bojinka and other warnings.
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Nikki Stone 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. See, I don't believe that crap about government "ignorance".
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 04:15 PM by Nikki Stone 1
There are some amazing people who work in government. Careerists who actually know a thing or two and have expertise. I am certain they thought of these things.

Once again, I have no problem with the fact that innocuous containers and substances can be made dangerous. I remember Oklahoma and the fertilizer.

My issue is how this is being done. There are plots that get foiled all the time--real government people doing their jobs. That's why this administration has to take small things (like those homeless guys in Miami who could barely tie their own shoes) and turn them into the terror attacks of the century. This plot, whatever it was, was handled, foiled, and might never have been reported to the public, except that the Neocon White House is scared SHITLESS that the American people are waking up and have had enough of war in Iraq, Lebanon, enough of the madness of this White House. It's Code Red time for the Neocons and they are taking it out on all of us.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #33
49. You're right - they knew.
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 06:11 PM by AZBlue
I misstated above - I'm sure they knew, they just didn't care enough about our safety to put precautions in place.

I thought that this was made public by the British though - didn't they spill because they thought the FBI was going to muck it up? Plus, it's hard to keep the arrests of 24 (or more) people quiet in a country with free press (Britain).

I'm not in any way defending Bush & Co and their handling/misrepresentation/failure in the national security arena. They are inept at everything on that issue except lying about it and using it to their advantage. But, that doesn't mean the threat isn't there.
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
31. and the NSA wiretaps helped out how? Why the restrictions here?
If something were going to happen in the US shouldn't they know about it? Shouldn't they have an inkling who might be involved? If not, what is their justification for the continued use of those NSA wiretaps? What good are those frigging no-fly lists? The internet snooping and spying? And all the other incursions into our constitutional rights?

:banghead:

All this is showing, yet one more time, is the complete ineptitude of those currently in charge. They're playing it up here even though it happened over there.
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Nikki Stone 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. Maybe the terroists are using smoke signals now
or hand written notes that can't be tapped or decoded.
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #35
45. ahh, now I understand the term "terrorist ring"
it is actually an old-fashioned decoder ring.
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Nikki Stone 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. LOL!
Purchased with 7 proof of purchase seals....
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
37. So What, I am tired of changing my lifestyle for the terrorists.
Isn't the number of accidental shootings with handguns around 10,000 per year? Why aren't we freaked out over the number of domestic abuse cases that end in death? I am sure they all together way out number the number of Americans killed if this plan had gone off.

So if each of the 21 suspects was on a separate plane and did his thing we could lose maybe 200 people per aircraft +/-. so somewhere between 2000 to 3000 maximum.

I dont know, I think Americans have a problem with folks dieing all at once, rich pretty folks.

But far greater numbers die each year from drunk drivers, but we aren't watching 24/7 news coverage on THAT problem.

I think anyone worried about this media event, because that is what it is, and not all the other ills we face every day are being unconsciously hypocritical.

One thing is for certain, we will all die one day. I dont plan on living like a cowering little sissy in the mean time no matter what the threat.

Allot of us saw this coming back on December 12, 2000. On that date our future was set in stone and if you are surprised by todays news,.... well maybe you should have paid more attention.





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salitine Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. Well actually, we're mad because it's OBVIOUSLY a media event
You should start looking around the other blogs. Lots of people think the timing is TOO convinent. And the terra-ists aren't changing your lifestyle. Bush's tax cuts are. Don't you feel the wealth pouring in all around you?
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. You are correct,* has changed my life like no terrorists ever could.
why if the suspects are in custody was there such an immediate threat?
the announcement about changes re carry on items could have been made today to go into effect tomorrow.

No flight delays, no backups at airports, no stinking MSM reportergeeks reporting from the main event, so to speak.

But the emotional and sensational impact would not be there and that is what the GOP and MSM both love to give to we little scared helpless travelers and viewers.

:puke:
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