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Spinoza Donating Member (766 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:25 PM
Original message
"Why The World Hates the Jews"
Yes, the following is from a conservative website and written by a conservative (whom I normally can't stand). However, I believe it is an excellent, informative article and deserves attention. To those of you who will not even look at it because of its source, well.... then don't read it. (But many here seem to be willing to read and post the notorious bigoted conservative Patrick Buchanan who admittedly writes eloquently against the neo-cons and the Iraq invasion.)

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/MichaelMedved/2006/0...

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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. And you read it?
YOU READ IT?????????
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Spinoza Donating Member (766 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Yes.
I've also read Hitler's 'Mein Kampf'.
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well isn't that just...
S-P-E-C-I-A-L
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. how strange to see Medved putting Rummy out to dry
and sticking up, in an oblique way, for folks like Feingold and Boxer...
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
5. Here I thought this was another Mel Gibson thread...
:eyes:
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
6. I have a question for Medved, then.
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 02:32 PM by ComerPerro
Why do you hate blacks, hispanics, homosexuals, bisexuals, muslims, arabs, ...

Ah, fuck it.

Why do you hate everyone except white, Republican, conservative, Christain males?


EDIT:

Oh yeah, you like Jews. Good for you. Too bad you hate everyone else.
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Spinoza Donating Member (766 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. 'Oh yeah, you like Jews'
Really? I don't think he likes Al Franken. There are probably a few other Jews, such as Noam Chomsky, or Trotsky, that he can't stand. But maybe I'm crazy.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. That's. true. Anyone who ever said anything bad about Franken
is an anti-Semite and is worse than Hitler.

LOL
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Spinoza Donating Member (766 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Say, what?
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Using the right wing logic
if you attack any single person for anything, and they happen to be Jewish, you are an anti-Semite.
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Which oddly enough is no different...
to the logic displayed by some liberals/progressives/leftists, here on this very site, who've attacked anyone who doesn't support Cynthia McKinney as either sexist, racist, or both. That sort of thinking isn't the exclusive province of the right. Equally repugnant from both sides, though, and when used as a knee-jerk reaction in relation to criticism of members of historically opressed groups it can have an effect of lessening the impact of the very real instances of bigotry that still exist. It's the political tactic of someone who has no real arguments, and so must resort to an ad-hominem.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Yeah, cause no one ever talks about her gender or race
:eyes:
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. ...
I'm not talking about Republicans; I'm talking about Democrats who DIDN'T support McKinney and who thought she was a liability to the party--the threads are probably still around if you want to look; plenty of examples of what I'm talking about. Same thing as crying 'anti-Semitism!' when someone dares to criticise Israel, IMO.
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. The American right likes *Israeli* Jews. And only the hawkish ones.
That's it. They like them for reasons of foreign policy. These guys don't like American Jews anymore than they like gays or blacks or any other non-WASP.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Yeah, I know. They are just tools.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
11. The problem here is that
I don't think the "world hates Jews", right here and now however the world is less than fond of Israel's actions in Lebanon. The constant conflating of Jews and Israel is a cheap trick and patently untrue.
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mtice Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Oh really?
Then what explains the hostility before the recent events in Lebanon? ("the occupation", yadda yadda, I know). And what explains the hostility before the 1967 war in which Israel captured the disputed territories? ("the Nakbah", yadda yadda, I know).

And what explains the collaboration of the Arabs with Hitler's Final Solution? ... And what explains the Arab pogroms against Jews before there was even an Israeli state?

There is a consistent explanation to all of this if you would simply open your eyes to it, and open your ears to what Israel's enemies actually say.

Before there was an Israel, Israel's neighbors STILL weren't at peace. So there's something else at work here, isn't there?
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. So you are saying
every Arab on the face of the earth collaborated with Hitler? They turned in Jews from then Palestine? Please do tell this is a part of history I haven't heard of. Now I do know the grand mufti of Jerusalem was Hitler's personal guest during WW2 and that it has been said that ex-nazi's (as well as brits, but I see no mention of them being a problem) had a hand in the training and suppling the Palestinians in the war of Liberation I believe this, but this is here and now. I guess because this time around I believe Israel is acting in a reprehensible not to mention provenly unproductive manner I am an enemy. I bring up Israel because Medved in his first paragraph.
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mtice Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Don't be disingenuous
It doesn't have to be "every Arab on the face of the earth" to be a hell of a lot of them. To be more accurate, it is Arab Muslims who are the main antagonists, non-Muslim Arabs do not have the same record of unmitigable hostility towards Jews and anything Jewish. By and large we are talking about the same group of Arab Muslims, and their descendents raised on anti-Jewish propaganda, turned into people with such hate for Jews that they would kill their own children in the most horrible ways to see Jews dead.

Remember Krystallnacht? There were also pogroms against Jews in Israel incited by this Muslim-Nazi collaboration, though such incitement was hardly necessary considering that anti-Jewish pogroms in the territory that would become Israel predate the Nazis by at least a decade. Hitler found in the Arab Muslims of the area a group of people who did not need to be convinced of his program as they already shared his goal of eradicating the Jews. The legacy of the Mufti of Jerusalem is manifest in his nephew Yasser Arafat's PLO, and later in the even more bloodthirsty Hamas. The intifadas were the exact same type of hate-driven destruction that the Nazis undertook with their pogroms.

Remember Arafat getting 98% of his demands offered to him, turning it down and starting a war instead as a response? This is what Israel gets when it "negotiates". The problem with negotiation is that both sides need to negotiate in good faith.
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. There were Moslems who fought against Hitler as well
The all-volunteer Indian Army fighting with the British in World War II (from Dunkirk, to Italy, to Greece, to France, all the way to the end of the war) numbered about 2,500,000 by the war's end. About one 350,000 of those were Moslem troops, from the Punjab and Bengal (what is now Pakistan and Bangladesh).

And the Free French Brigade that fought alongside the British in North Africa, Italy, and then in the campaign to free France included "Goumiers", Arabic troops from Tunisia, Algeria, and Morocco. The Goumiers took part in the battle of Bir Hakeim, when the Free French Brigade saved the British Army by holding off Rommel and the Afrika Korps for 16 days while the routed British Army escaped, allowing them to regroup at El Alamein. The Goumiers also fought at Monte Casino in Italy. They took part in the campaign to free the south of France and fought a tough street-to-street fight with the German Army in Marseille. Here's a photo of the Goumiers, who typically wore turbans and long tunics as part of their uniform.

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Meshuga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. His is talking about...
...Arab Muslims, not all Muslims and not ALL Arab Muslims either. That doesn't negate the fact that there are a lot of Arab Muslims who have pure hatred for all Jews and want them dead.

My friend's father (Muslim from Bangladesh) fought against the Nazis in that army.
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. The Goumiers were Arabic speaking Moslems
who fought and died fighting Hitler. And there were European (i.e. non Arabic) Moslems who fought WITH Hitler, such as the Bosnian Moslem Handzar Division of the SS.



Nothing is all black and white. Where we see hatred we should condemn it. But where we see sacrifice and virtue, such as the North African Moslems who fought with the allies, we should celebrate it too.
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stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Exactly. n/t
n/t
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Spinoza Donating Member (766 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Surely you are not denying
the existence of a pervasive anti-Semitism unrelated to Israel? Anti-Semitism represents the oldest continuing predjudice on earth and seems to exist in many if not most nations. (Of course, other forms of racism also exist in most nations. But this post is about anti-Semitism which in respect to its longevity and its combination of religious, economic and racial aspects has some unique qualities.) There are still survivors of the Death Camps walking the earth who can surely correct your misapprehsions. So, I imagine could (as one admittedly trivial example) Mel Gibson.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. This is tired
I am a Jew the death camps were 60 effing years ago, yes there are still survivers, but that does not justify the constant whining "they all hate us" you see the problem is that if you expect a reaction enough you'll get it. How much overt anti- semitism have really encountered in your life?
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Spinoza Donating Member (766 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Because you asked.
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 03:25 PM by Spinoza
Two examples. There were others:

My father,a survivor of Treblinka, owned a variety store on Mission St. in San Francisco. I worked in the store on Saturdays (we were not religious) and summers. On at least 6 occasions, when I was present, groups of teen-agers would poke their heads in, scream 'Kike' and run off laughing. My father, who usually laughed about it, (I was in tears) told me of many other anti-Semitic events in his store. (Of course, because of his tattoo, his 'membership' was evident.)

My mother, a survivor of Dachau, who was paralyzed from MS in her later years, usually hid her tattoo. However, we were on vacation in 'Camp Mather' and she was in a bathing suit. A woman came up out of nowhere, looked her straight in the eye, and said 'Dirty Jew' and walked off. I was standing next to her.

Only because you asked. Sorry if I was 'whining'.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I am sorry to hear that
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 03:30 PM by azurnoir
but maybe its where I live, but really I haven't seen it. Maybe something else in my life life gave bigots a better target- my kids are half black but even then only once-it was something like your mothers incident and the womens husband came and apologied, however that was in Minneapolis- in Fort Wayne Indiana visiting relatives I was afraid to take my kids out after the first time.

edited for wrong here-hear
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Spinoza Donating Member (766 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Thanks.
I appreciate your response. Peace.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. No, thank you
I think what I'm trying to say here is even a good hand can be over played, case in point: Cynthia McKinney.
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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
27. No Medved. He's insane.
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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
28. I object to the statement "Why The World Hates the Jews"
Some people hate Jews, the world does not hate Jews. I think its danger to concede this distinction.


See Finklestein's "Beyond Chutzpah: Abuses of Anti-Semitism.
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