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There is no such thing as Islamic Fascists or "Islamo Fascism"

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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:45 PM
Original message
There is no such thing as Islamic Fascists or "Islamo Fascism"
When will the lies stop? Will he keep getting away with such bull shit?

GREEN BAY, Wis. Aug 10, 2006 (AP) President Bush said Thursday that a foiled plot to blow up
multiple flights between Britain and the United States shows "this nation is at war with Islamic fascists."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=2297039


That term is like partial birth abortion, the "death tax," and "Operation Iraqi Freedom"
Just lies and cover stories ..... and speaking of fascism how about stealing elections,
starting 'patriotic wars" dragging Jesus into government, corporate control of the media,
and paying no attention to the laws of the land?

:rant:


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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. We have to make the lies stop
They will never quit until forced.
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eallen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. The wingnuts are desparate not to use the right word: fundamentalist
If the ideology of Islamic terrorists were accurately described, it would be an uncomfortable reminder to this nation's own right wing that the internal views closest to it are their own fundamentalist brethren.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Exactly
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tenshi816 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
31. That's a very good point you make.
The Republican Ministry of Propaganda is skilled at word manipulation, isn't it?
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sure there is...and they're trying to get the Nukular bomb.
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RadiDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. How abour 'religous fundy nutters who kill in the name of god'?
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 01:49 PM by RadiDem
Like Osama, Eric Rudolf, Jim Jones and David Koresh>

Marx was right.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. They're religious fundy nutters who kill in the name of God
as opposed to fascists. Like most other political snarl words, there's a lot more to "fascism" than "politics which I don't like." It's a complex and fairly specific sort of ideology.

Lumping all those guys under that is like lumping the entire left under communism.
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. Sure ... and no one is forcing women into burkas
And nowhere will you find religious police or militants seeking to impose sharia law.
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Kailassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. They are fundamentalists, and Christians and Jews have them too.
And they all grab whatever power they can
to make the lives of women and minorities
miserable and impress their male chauvenist
buddies.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. It's a stupid word
and although all fundamentalists share certain things, there is no functional xian equivalent to sharia law.
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Kailassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. "there is no functional xian equivalent to sharia law"
No, there isn't. But there are certainly some "christians" who wish there was
and would gladly start copying it.
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RadiDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. BS!!!! Google Xtian Dominionist Gary North + Stoning
There is a subset of radical xtians like this nutter who think people should be PUT TO DEATH for swearing!
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #23
38. Yes, yes
i know about the wannabes. That is NOT what I'm talking about. Name one country that operates under the Christian equivalent of Sharia. There are real people being stoned to death for infidelity and hung for infractions against religion, and it may be politically incorrect to mention it, but the countries where those people are being oppressed are in countries with Sharia law.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Yeah, well
if wishes were horses and all that. There isn't the cultural and historical background in this country, at least, that would provide fertile ground for a Christian fundamentalist theocracy.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. There isn't?
"There isn't the cultural and historical background in this country, at least, that would provide fertile ground for a Christian fundamentalist theocracy."

Dominionist and Reconstructionist, as well as many other Christian fundamentalist groups, are thriving and growing in number in our country. They have pretty much hijacked the current Republican Party. Where have you been?
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
37. I attended my Christian fundamentalist nephew's wedding
and was quite put off when the preacher went on and on about him now being the 'head of the house' the 'head of his new wife', etc. There is in many of these groups a "holy hierarchy" where they view their god as the head of Jesus, Jesus the head of the man, and man the head of the woman. Women are viewed as having 'came from man' or 'created for man' and wives are expected to submit to their husbands in every sense.

Now, perhaps this is not the equivalent of sharia law, and perhaps in our modern day society, even as they regress in their fundamentalism and strive hard to take us all back with them, they will never attain the equivalence of sharia law, but, ya' gotta admit, this is some scary ass shit.
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #17
28. I was able to walk away from my fundamentalist tribe w/o injury
Sorry, but not all fundies are the same.
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Kailassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #28
40. And so have many ex Muslims.
Sorry, but your "ooh, look how terrible Muslims are" undercurrent doesn't hold water.
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. Yes and many in Afghanistan found what happened
when the Taliban took over. I haven't seen the equivalent in modern Christian or Jewish history.

The undercurrent you see is your own soft bigotry. Remember, I walked away from such narrow thinking once ...
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
33. But they support a
war which has killed 100,000 civilians in Iraq and 20,000 American casualities (including injuries).

They support detention without trial, kidnapping (extraordinary rendition) and torture.
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
45. Damn...what a completely uninformed response
Some folks need to look up the definition of fascism and Islam.


Of course-- willfull ignorance may be a state of mind that some enjoy.

Blind hatred based on intentional stupidity? Hmmm. What's that called again.
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
6. Wanna see what a deer looks like in headlights?
Ask a dittohead to define "IslamoFascism" or even just "fascism". I have yet to meet one that could. They just like the sound of it I guess.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. They get bonus points if they try to bring communism into the defs. (n/t)
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
10. he's been getting away with pretending that there are "terrorists"
for years now.
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Reckon Donating Member (729 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
11. The repubs are running from the John Dean book...
that pegs them as fascists. They would like to pin that label on someone else.
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
47. I agree
Terrorists are not organized enough to reasonably be called fascist.
They are trying to redefine fascism so that committing mass atrocities al a Hitler is a part of the definition.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
12. The GOP & BCF use of language is nails on a blackboard to me.
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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
13. Where do you get the idea that there is no such thing as
Islamic Fascists? Nothing prevents anyone from being a Fascist. Fascism coexists quite nicely with any religion. Jews, Christians, Hindus can be Facists. Please quote religious sources that prohibits followers from being Fascists?.
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
14. That is the term that Daniel Pipes likes
I don't know if he invented it or not - but he sure likes to spread it around.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I've also read where Pipes likes to point out that...
ALL Muslims contribute in some way or another to radical terrorism, and therefore they all take part in this "fascist" conspiracy, therefore we have free license to attack ALL Muslims in the name of freedom and security. Looks like the Bush administration is already taking this to heart with respect to the Shia.
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. With that "reasoning"
a person could say the same thing about Christians and Jews and Pagans and Americans and Israelis or anybody.


If a person suggested that all Jews were bad - though - THAT would be antisemitism. It's funny how people don't get that bigotry of other groups is the same concept as bigotry of their own.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. Speak of the devil, Daniel Pipes is going to be on Lou Dobbs today...
as part of a panel of "Middle East experts."
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #32
49. Daniel Pipes is the guy who urged Reagan to arm Saddam.
http://tomjoad.org/pipes.htm
That's how extreme he is. That there are some who post here who adore him is another matter.
But that man is just wacko crazy.
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
46. He likes to spread it around-- like syphilis... which is what this term is
it rots the brain and the soul ...

Leave it to Pipes to do that.
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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
16. Islamic Fascism ( as per a Muslim blogger)
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 02:10 PM by Hoping4Change
An excellent discussion of the subject.

"The term "Islamofascism" is thrown around quite freely in some quarters. There is such a thing, just as there are extremist interpretations of Judaism, Christianity, and Hinduism that call for the fight against anything "other". What's wrong with the term "Islamofascist" is when some people apply it to any Muslim who seeks to an integration of Islam and politics, even if that Muslim condemns Bin Laden and Zawahiri. Such a distortion inhibits debate.

There are certain policies and certain beliefs that are fascist and rightly deserve to be called so, policies and beliefs that dehumamize those who are of a different religion or ethnic group and that promote violence against the other religion or ethnic group.

But Islam is not itself a fascist ideology. In fact, Islam condemns all such hatred and violence. I have posted about this in the past to my blog and to my website and I encourage anyone who doesn't believe me to take the time to read my archives and to browse my site. "




http://www.muhajabah.com/islamicblog/archives/veiled4al...
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Finder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
18. Sure there is...but the average joe does not understand what...
fascism is. Many confuse the term with the unique fascism of Germany in WWII.

Fascism and Communism have become derogatory terms rather than philosophies thanks to our education system.

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Taxloss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
19. Islamofascism - It's a lousy term, certainly. Lazy and inaccurate.
Almost all comparisons to fascism are wrongheaded, especially when people use the word to describe Nazism, which is yet another creature in the semantic woods here. But really, there are so few analogues between Islamic extremism and fascism it's astonishing that the term has become so widely used. And rather frightening, as it suggests that we're forgetting what makes fascism fascism and Nazism Nazism, and what sets them apart from other murderous isms.
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alvarezadams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Yet
Falangism fits the GOP to a tee.

If you ever post on more "public" boards with a "healthy" smattering of GOPers, shoot them the platform of the American Falangist Party - without naming it.

99% of GOPers will say "right on!", loving every bit of it.

One would think that the blind don't insult the blind. Guess not.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
24. It's all FDR envy.
The Pukes want thier chance to be the heros that save the world, hence the comparisons to fascism and calling anti-war opinions "appeasement."
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Dragonfly Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Your perspective has been one
of the theories that I've been working on, as well.

I think this notion will become a frequently seen meme in the blogosphere as we zoom toward the mid-terms.

Another sense that I'm grasping is the possibility that the * admin
might not be looking forward to handing over the reins to the "Demo Party nat'l security weaklings," should the Repubs lose the '08 election.

Thanks for your essential, well-stated opinion.
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
29. The only point to it is
that the American people put up with more shit from their government from 1941-45 than at any other point in history. They want us back in that mindset, because they want to pile shit on us. They are going to fail because in the meantime they stopped funding the teaching of history. "Fascist" means little to most Americans--maybe it's a word you dredge up to call your history teacher when she tries to get you to read a book.

It's a case of idiots leading idiots, barely worthy of discussion except for all the people who are getting killed because of it.
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Kickin_Donkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
30. It's a neoconservative catchphrase to rally the masses ...
like the boogeymen of communism, tree huggers, illegal immigrants, the Hun, yellow peril, terraists, etc.

You see it thrown about like neocons like Thomas Friedman, Charles Krauthammer, Hannity and O'Reilly. It's an emotional propaganda phrase.
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CrushTheDLC Donating Member (448 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
35. Fascism = corporatism
And how many 12th century mentality Muslim fundamentalists are corporatists?

The Saudi royal family and the BinLadens perhaps, but other than that?
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. The average Joe doesn't understand that, though.
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 03:44 PM by Odin2005
The average American is brought up with the Neo-Liberal Capitalist interpretation of fascism, which conveniently ignores the importance of corporate support and instead groups it with Stalinism as some monolithic entity called "totalitarianism" that is opposed to Capitalist "Democracy."
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
39. Thank you to everybody who posted.
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 04:25 PM by Botany
This is why I love DU. Smart people looking at different sides of an issue
and posting good comments. I even like the ones that say I am wrong
and tell me why they think I am wrong.

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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
41. I call it the "Liar's Ess"
I've often observed that people will stretch their mouths wide and over-pronounce their "ess's" and "esh's" when they're lying through their teeth. Bush does it all the time.. he sounds like he's spitting.
"Issslamic Faschhhhhhisssssts" he said today. Makes my skin crawl.
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Evil Bush Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
42. The Saudi royal family are "Islamic Fascists".
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
43. Thank you! It's a false concept.
Make it seem like a unified global movement, so shills like Hannity can whip up the fear that Iran, like Nazi Germany, wants to take over the world and kill all non-Muslims.

I'm sick of public figures letting this bogus meme gain credibility.

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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
48. Yeah, where the fuck did that come from? Is he on crack again?
One minute the officials are saying that they knew nothing about this... and it was PURE coincidence that they slammed the Dems yesterday about terrorism, with Cheney's "HIGHLY UNUSUAL" conference call with reporters on the eve of the announced terror plot.. then the next minute Bush acts as though he already knows what the religion is of these people and what they're all about? Thought the Brittish govt said they didn't know what group this was. or if it was Al Quaeda? Then we hear they've been working on catching these guys for months and months.

I'm hearing lies. I'm seeing political opportunism. I mean, c'mon, Bush and Blair have been totally inseparable lately, and they both head off to vacation at the same time each summer.. and it seems they do it while things are going to shit.

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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
50. It's bullshit alright, but is sure sounds menacing doesn't it?
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
51. It's one more misuse of
a concept.
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Mike Niendorff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
52. Simple reason:

They are trying to muddy the waters around the word "fascism", now that progressives are (correctly) starting to put it back into political discourse again.


MDN
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Exactly. They know it is a word that...
...can and is properly applied to them, so they do this to create confusion about it.
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