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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:20 PM
Original message
The TerraPlot: What I believe
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 12:29 PM by LynneSin

  • I believe that the Scotland Yard tracked down and arrested 20 people who may have been plotting to blow up planes.
  • I believe that the people in custody were probably not Al-Qaeda. BBC said they were of 'Asian Heritage' which covers all of the MiddleEast and problem areas surrounding it. However, if the suspects were of Middle-Eastern heritage, I believe BBC would have referred to them as such.
  • I believe that on any given day there is probably someone out there trying to plot how to blow up planes or something else big.
  • I believe that our US Government had absol-fucking-lutely NOTHING to do with foiling this plot. We already know the record for cracking terrorists on planes and it's not pretty reliable
  • I believe that most of us have become cynical when it comes to these threats. We've banned knives, razors, lighters and a host of other objects, so they needed to come up with something new to be banned. Anyhow, banning liquids will allow the airlines to bilk it's passingers into buying overpriced drinks on their flight
  • And finally I believe if this event happened any other day of the year outside of the days after Joe Lieberman's defeat that this would not be covered ad nauseum over the news network. Joe Lieberman was their 'go-to' guy in the senate for the democrats; their one main proof that allows them to say "Look we work well with Democrats". Dick Cheney said YESTERDAY that the defeat of Lieberman would enable stuff JUST LIKE THIS and I believe that today, they're just emphazing that point.


What do you believe?
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nothing the TV tells me. I only speculate. I don't believe. n/t
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jpkenny Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. I believe you are right. nt
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. Question: Had they BOUGHT the ingredients yet?
Had they made a single purchase of an explosive component? Other than glycerin which might just be for elbows?
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Taoschick Donating Member (391 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
5. I believe
The people arrested were Pakistani which would make them Asian.
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reichstag911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. But the Pakistanis...
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 12:26 PM by reichstag911
...under dictator Musharraf are our friends, aren't they. And forget that whole A.Q. Khan imbroglio... :Sarcasm:

on edit: That makes me think a good name for our dictator would be Busharraf, n'est-ce pas?
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
37. And I acknowledged that in my OP
Just saying that if they were of Middle-Eastern decent, which is distinguishable from other parts of Asia, wouldn't they have mentioned it?
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Taoschick Donating Member (391 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. I think
The BBC is being exceptionally careful not to play the ME-terrorist card. It's also more likely that people living in Europe are a little more clued in when it comes to geography.
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pdxmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. I believe that this administration has exaggerated and cried wolf
so many times that much of the country is skeptical, which I find to be truly terrifying. By creating this skepticism, they've made this country less safe.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Uh huh. Meantime, thousands are missing planes
because of this outrageous government hysteria. ALL the panic is being created by the government and media, so far, nothing has been done by the "terrorists."

Therefore, I suspect that skepticism is well in order.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
7. I believe that the breathless, over-the-top reporting...
is so fucking obvious that I can't believe how many are chastising us because we can't take it all in at face value.
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demigoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
29. they make money off their 'breathless reporting' of 'plots foiled'
they get to charge more for their commercials. they also seem to put more commercials in. Also it bulks up the resumes of the reporters who go to 'the war zone'.
Ps. how come they won't allow liquids in the cabin but you can check them in your baggage? Seems if there are real terrorists they could figure out a way to take down a plane by blowing up the cargo area. That is why all of these scares do not scare me. They do not even check out the cargo in planes. But they frisk people wearing bras. Give me a break!!!! It is just a way to keep us from complaining about the abominable conditions inside airplanes today.
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YDogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
9. I'm with you on the first four points of six.
I don't hink it has anything to do with airlines selling us overpriced drinks.

I believe this would have received the same sort of coverage regardless of when it had happened (re: Lamont's win). Networks love terra. Terra = ratings.
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nonews Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. No terrorist link?
you think that these were "Asian men" and not terrorists? The Government announced this soley after Lieberman's defeat to cover up the Lamont victory? You need to go back to Middle Earth and live with the Hobbits!
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Thank you for your concern.
Had they bought the ingredients? Plane tickets? Grand plans for many planes? They had funding? From where, dear?
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #17
48. This cabbage head has nothing to add.
Why bother asking him a question he would have to give an inteligent answer to?

He isn't cacpable of it and is just posting to cause trouble.

Just another keyboard commando coward.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
47. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #10
49. wow, you've been waiting four years to post that juvenile insult?
Edited on Fri Aug-11-06 12:42 AM by Ms. Clio
careful, don't blow your cover.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
11. I just don't know anymore -
we get these huge media terror stories which half of the time just fizzle out.

It's best just to wait and see.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
12. I believe this was their ''October Surprise''
...and someone's hopping mad at Scotland Yard about now.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Oh, that's funny.
But I'm sure they'll think of something else.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. *Their* being the UK?
The signs are there that the UK is inching towards a police state,too.
It'll be interesting to see what kinds of laws get pushed thru because of this.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. Wasn't Tony having some trouble last week with his ratings?
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Tony's *always* having trouble with his ratings. :^)
No,I was thinking more of the recent push for surveillance and broadening of powers.
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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
13. Arrests come after speech by British home secretary John Reid
Anti-terror critics just don't get it, says Reid
John Reid yesterday accused the government's anti-terror critics of putting national security at risk by their failure to recognise the serious nature of the threat facing Britain. "They just don't get it," he said.

The home secretary yesterday gave the thinktank Demos his strongest hint yet that a new round of anti-terror legislation is on the way this autumn by warning that traditional civil liberty arguments were not so much wrong as just made for another age.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,,1841132,00...

http://www.warandpiece.com /
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fearthem Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
14. The MSM is hungry!
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Sammy Pepys Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
15. I think...
This would have gotten the same level of media coverage today as it would've any other day.

Apparently these guys were Pakistani, which is more accurately described as Asian than Middle Eastern.

I think the US knew about the whole tracing operation, but that this was mostly a British effort.

I don't think carry-on liquids will be banned for very long. I don't think it has anything to do with the airlines...I've never been charged for water or soda on any flight I've ever taken.

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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
16. I believe you nailed it, Lynn
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 12:37 PM by Atman
Don't really disagree with any of it. Good post.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
20. Here's some Proof for what you say: Just minutes ago on MSNBC
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 12:44 PM by KoKo01
I just posted this on Kentuck's thread but I think it applies to what you posted:


There's a new anchor on MSNBC who just brought up Bush's "Bull Horn Moment" to describe how "out in front and in command this President is." (that's an exact quote from this guy) He then brought up Liberman loss in Ct. and said what will this mean for the future and here's Pat Buchanan to discuss it. Pat Buchanan then went into a political diatribe saying that the American people wanted to be safe, the Repugs are seen as making us safer and that one of the problems we have is not being able to torture these suspects to find out what they know...yadda, yadda, yadda...and I had to turn it off.

This is a little off from what your post was asking...and I didn't want to do another "MSNBC SAYS" post out in GD because I have two out there already....BUT, this new anchor on MSNBC (shaved head and glasses) immediately brought up Lieberman loss in CT, Democrats and then Bush's Bull Horn Moment plus how people see him so in charge of everything and then Pat Buchanan goes into a rant about Democrats.

I'm reminded of folks posting about DU conspiracy theorists and chiding folks who might think things are a little OTT with the timing and hype of this and then connecting it to Lieberman loss as but what I just saw shows that it's being MADE POLITICAL just to give Bush More Power to Torture and Wire Tap and keep people in fear. MSNBC was being complicit with Repugs in that segment I just saw trying to connect Terrorists to Democrats weakness.

It's the same old script we've seen over and over with these people trying to save their butts from the war crimes charges that should be brought down on their head. We are being USED and there's no doubt our CABLE MEDIA is controlled by the Bushies as a Propaganda Machine.

It was really disgraceful what I saw and no matter what REAL threats there are it's hard not see how they are used to create panic and fear and control.

Anyway...I'm sure there will be real reaction (terrorists unleashed on GB & US) to this carnage Bush and Blair refused to stop in Lebanon and what they've made happen in Iraq by illegally invading...but they should be Stopped from USING the MEDIA's reporting any attack or plot against Democrats for political purposes of manipulation.

Horrible times we live in, but at least some of us here and there are connecting the dots and refusing to have our minds messed with by manipulation.


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NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
21. I believe Gonzales sounded "delighted" this morning to share
his thoughts on the subject. Why do they always sound so THRILLED when this stuff "happens"? That's what gets me.And it tends to affect what I believe.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #21
35. Just another sign of the end times.
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #21
42. You're right
They seem to jump it very eagerly. I read that Bush today used the words 'islamic fascist' about the terrists for the first time (if it was translated correctly), and he came across with the ususal credibility.

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quiet.american Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
22. Well said, Lynne. Larry Johnson sums up what I believe:
In the back of my mind I worry that this threat might be trumped up in order to divert attention from the disastrous US and British policy (or lack of policy) in Lebanon. More likely, we have an informant in the UK that identified a potential plot that was in the dreaming stage but had not progressed to actual implementation. Rather than act like security professionals, the Brits are acting like panicked nannies. Very sad.

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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
23. I believe nothing that the corporate media reports.
For them, it's ALL about money and sensationalism for more ratings. :grr:
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lectrobyte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Yes, they go into feargasm mode. I'm avoiding TV for the next week
or so.
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. "feargasm"...I love it!
and it fits this stupidity perfectly.

DR
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
24. I agree
Sounds like the Brits have been investigating these guys for awhile and that the plan was in place to take down the planes this month.

I doubt terrorists really give a rat's ass who won the CT primary.

The media loves this stuff; it's much juicier than the results of the CT primary.

I'm glad the Brits caught these guys. They take airport security very seriously. I doubt Homeland Security would have been quite so successful.

There are people out there who really do want to harm us. The world has not been made safer by BushCo's war.


Mz Pip
:dem:
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
25. FYI: Al Qaeda is very active in Asia
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #25
44. Why is everything scary in the world automatically blamed on Al Qaeda?
Why are you jumping through their hoops like this?
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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
28. I don't doubt that terrorists groups exist and that alot are
probably boiling mad right now but, on the other hand, this revelation comes at a time that is just sooooo beneficial to both bush and blair. Its impossible to know what to think.
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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
31. I believe there are lies....simply due to the lack of evidence...
It's easy to just make up something.
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Nikki Stone 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
32. Just damned convenient that this "alert" occurs at a time when:
1. Israel is playing "smash and grab" with Lebanon in a blood match with Hezbollah, and many Americans and Brits are aghast at the carnage.

2. The Iraqi war has just been labeled a "civil war" by major American generals and many Americans are finally waking up and calling for a withdraw of our troops from this quagmire.

3. Americans are further disgusted by rape and murder of 14 year old girl and execution of her family by US troops allegedly high on cough syrup.

4. Joe Lieberman's loss encourages the Dems to run on a strong anti-war platform, as anti-war sentiment is now a majority opinion.

5. Tony Blair is up to his nipples in anti-war protests.


Methinks this is a slapdown on the American people: if you oppose the war, evil terr'ists will crash your plane, just like 9/11


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MadJohnShaft Donating Member (267 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
33. all those of Asian Heritage would be advised to avoid getting shot
in the jetway (or on the subway). Remember after the last big actions there were a lot of itchy trigger fingers around.
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novalib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
36. I BELIEVE IT IS ALL BULLSHIT!!!!!!!
I do not believe for one minute that there were 20 or more people in the UK who wished to blow up airplanes. NOT ONE PERSON!!

I believe that this whole incident was a massively-staged con to scare the American people into TOTAL AND UTTER SUBMISSION!!

I believe that the goons, thugs, boot-lickers, and ass-kissers in both the UK and the US Government conceived and hatched this latest "threat" in order to scare the shit out of people on both sides of the Atlantic.

And I believe that also intended to ramp up the hatred against "people of Asian ethnicity" -- meaning Arabs and Muslims!!

To believe that even one thing the US or the UK Government is saying about this whole thing is to be a victim of the most massive con since 9/11!!!!!
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lisainmilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #36
46. AS CRAZY AS IT SOUNDS..................
I have to agree with you. Sure is funny how we have had no terrorist threats until it comes time for elections! Nevertheless, if this is true, does that mean Americans really are safer with repugs in office................NOT! They couldn't even handle a hurricane Katrina properly! Drives me f* crazy! It is such bullshit!

:dem:
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #36
50. Cheney himself said Lamont's victory would help the terrorists.
So the timing is awfully convenient.

Really, the tinfoil hat accusations are off the mark. Why aren't they levelled at Cheney for what he said? And just conveniently, there is a "threat" the next day.

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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
40. Another UK terror plot - remember ricin?
Ricin was a new word to me back in 2003 (Sorry, only Norw. links):

01.23.2003
"New ricin suspect arrested in Britan
Brtitsh anti-terror police has arrested another person suspected for connections with the ricin found in an appartment in London earlier in January.
(..)
The 31 year old man arrested Thursday is of north African origins. He's number 8 to be arrested in connection with the ricin found in a flat in north London January 5."
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/uriks/article476980.e...

Turned out to be bullshit:

04.23.2005
"Terror-posison was a bluff
The claimed terrorists arrested in London prior to the invasion in Iraq was not at all posessing the lethal poison Ricin, as it was claimed.
(..)
The news about the ricin-find went all around the world and added to whip up the terror fear in the weeks before the invasion.
The British police the next days arrested close to a hundred men with presumed ties to the terror network A-Queda. Five of them was later charged with direct connections to the claimed ricin-find.

Vice-president Dick Cheney, a spokesperson for president George W. Bush and the Foreign Secretary Colin Powell was among those mentioning the ricin-find.
(..)
During the trial against the five charged after the ricin-find in London information have surfaced that no ricin was found, or any other poison, in the London flat, a fact which also was known to C. Powell before he briefed the security council."
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/uriks/irak/article102...

The "terrorists" didn't have a poison, but was charged anyway?

Here's the flat where ricin was claimed to be found. It is now a ordinary house, but at the time it looked like the spooky mc spookster club. All in our imagination:


Here's my reaction to this story:



So, when will we get ALL details about this? I don't trust the police, I want to see for myself. Maybe some liquid explosives found it's way into the pockets of these "terrorists" all by itself?
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Though one man was found guilty of conspiracy
Kamel Bourgass, an illegal immigrant in his early 30s, who came to Britain in 2000, was found guilty of conspiring to cause a public nuisance through the use of poisons and explosives. He was convicted last year of the murder of Detective Constable Stephen Oake, who was stabbed to death in Manchester in 2003 as Bourgass tried to escape.
...
"You were ... the prime mover in a terrorist operation involving the use of poisons and explosives and intended to destabilise the community in this country by causing destruction, fear and injury," the judge said. "Had this operation come to fruition, the resulting fear and destruction with a potential for injury and widespread panic would have been substantial. Fortunately, though through no action of yourself, the plot was nipped in the bud."

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/attacks/story/0,,1459265...


He had the intent to produce poison - and recipes for ricin - but hadn't managed it. There wasn't enough evidence of the involvement of others to know about them, so they were not guilty. Yes, the case was hyped, with the claim that ricin was actually found, and further hype about how dangerous it could have been.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. Remember the Brazilian electrician
The U.K. authorities didn't come off very well after that one either:
- heavy jacket...nope.
- jumped the turnstile...nope.
- middle eastern man...nope.
- ran from the police...nope.
- protruding wire...nope.

I am sure there are other aspects of the MSM and police story that fell apart.
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
41. CODE RED! CODE RED! CODE RED!
We have a winner!
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