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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 11:45 PM
Original message
Sallust's description of Rome in 80 B.C. ...
Edited on Wed Aug-09-06 11:45 PM by Viva_La_Revolution
-- a government controlled by wealth, a ruling-class numb to the repetitions of political scandal, a public diverted by chariot races and gladiatorial shows--stands as a fair summary of some of our own circumstances...


Ten points to the one who can name the author and work... Google'ing is against the rules.


:popcorn:


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Pierogi_Pincher Donating Member (323 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. Josephus? and I forget the name of the book. n/t
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. No sir! Please try again.
1 point for the attempt.
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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. Gibbon nt
nt
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. nope... keep trying...
.
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rwenos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. Gibbon or Suetonius
It's either from Suetonius' "The Twelve Caesars," or from Edward Gibbons "The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire."
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. nope and nope... a clue...
less recent, and more recent, respectively.
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rwenos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Less and More Recent
So . . . less recent than Gibbon, and more recent than Suetonius.

Shot in the dark: William Shakespeare, in either Antony and Cleopatra or Julius Caesar.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. scratch that... more recent than both
I shouldn't have had that second drink... :blush:

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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
6. From what I've read
and heard and I can't cite a damned source: The fall of Rome was complicated and long. Yes, they were vain and spendy and arrogant. However, Rome was a big, pushy fish and the littler fish just kept gnawing at it until it finally collapsed under the massive weight of its bloated society.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:14 AM
Original message
As Joseph Tainter points out in "The Collapse of Complex Societies",
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 12:15 AM by Viva_La_Revolution
"Civilizations are anomalies. The whole statist configuration of hierarchy, specialization, and bureaucracy emerged fairly recently-about six thousand years ago-and has to be constantly reinforced and legitimized. It also requires an expanding material base and a constant mobilization of resources, the trend is always toward higher levels of complexity. There is the processing of of greater quantities of information and energy, the formation of larger settlements, increasing class differentiation and stratification, and the development of more complex technology. Collapse, which involves a progressive weakening of the political and administrative center, is the reversal of all this, and a recurrent feature of human societies."

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rwenos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
11. Thanks! Good Choice, Strong Quote nt
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
9. Cato the Younger? Titus Lucretius Carus? Marcus Tullius Cicero?
I have their books, and "on the Nature of the Universe" by Lucretuis is right in front of me. :D
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rwenos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Second Vote for Cicero
If my Shakespeare guess proves off the beam.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Cicero was pretty young when Sulla became dictator.
Lucretius was even younger, maybe a teen.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. think modern...
see #16 for clues
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
12. In 80 B.C. Rome was still a Republic.
Augustus made it into an Empire. Don't know who wrote that though.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Sulla was dictator (82-80 BC) but resigned in 80 BC
I just looked it up. :D

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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #12
34. Bzzzt! Caesar founded the Empire when he crossed the Rubicon and fought
the Republican loyalists led by Pompei.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #34
68. True, but didn't he just call himself dictator for life?
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 09:54 AM by Cleita
Wasn't it Octavius/Octavian who changed his name to Augustus and called himself emperor? I know what you are saying that everything was put in place during Caesar's time that made empire possible, but weren't the use of the terms empire and emperor done in Augustus's time? Wasn't Julius Caesar assassinated by those Senators who were trying to save the Republic?
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
16. More CLUES....
Sallust's quote is the first part, "stands as a fair summary of some of our own circumstances" is the author.

think 20th century
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. That's too modern for me!
Mussolini? :D

Are we restricted to Italy??? The 80 BC bit threw me off... is this a modern philosopher/historian like John Lukacs?
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:34 AM
Original message
"a moralist in the tradition of Gore Vidal." nt
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
27. OK, I couldn't stand it any longer - I cheated.
Now I'll never know how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop! ;(
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #27
38. One.... twwooo.... theeerreeee...!!
:D

Have you read it?
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:54 AM
Original message
No, but I saw the author speak about it
on CSPAN. ;) :D
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
57. Book TV, perhaps?
:evilgrin:

:D
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
30. You mean he's gay?
A muckraker?

A gay muckraker?
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. dunno...
I didn't bother to ask.

:rofl:

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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
19. Jacqueline Susan? Valley of the Dolls?
:evilgrin:
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Troublemaker!!
:spank:



:hug: hello hon!
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. I'm doin' the best with what I got...
:hug:
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
21. I gogled it and know the name of the author and work and it is
....

I'm tired and it is time for bed. I'll let someone who didn't cheat give the answer.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. a true gentleman!
5 points for you!


sleep tight. :)
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. I did it for selfish reasons. I wanted to be able to find this
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 12:48 AM by alfredo
thread in the morning to see if anyone answers.

I also wanted to know who wrote it.

Goodnight

QRX
tomorrow
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
23. Teddy Roosevelt.
I don't know why I'm saying that, just a memory of a thought of a hunch.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
24. Is the author British?
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #24
31. as American as Apple Pie. nt
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
26. Upton Sinclair? Edith Hamilton?
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rwenos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
28. Michael Harrington
In "The Other America."
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. Much, much closer... but nope. nt
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
35. Marshall McLuhan?
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 12:45 AM by Kurovski
Oops, he's Canadian.
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
36. Gore Vidal?
Vidal's "American Empire", maybe? Or did I just make myself look really, really stupid?
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rwenos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
37. Kevin Phillips
"American Dynasty"

Hey, this is kinda fun.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. I'm having a blast too.... and nope! But here's a clue...
First name and last both start with L
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rwenos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. Leon Litwack
Big American History prof at Berkeley when I was there in the 70's. Still teaching, I believe. Can't identify the work.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #39
42. Little Lulu!
Has the author been on C-SPAN'S Book TV recently?
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #39
43. Lucy Lawless... Lindsay Lohan... Lorna Luft... Leapin' Lizards...
Well darn! :argh:
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #43
55. ...
:rofl:


4 points for originality. :)
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #55
70. Say, thanks!
:D

I feel all better now.
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Pierogi_Pincher Donating Member (323 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #39
46. I thot of Lyndon Larouche?
as per the clues.
(I'll have one of what you're havin'!) :9

P_P :dem:
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Shakespeare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #39
47. oh god, not Lyndon LaRouche... n/t
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Pierogi_Pincher Donating Member (323 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #47
52. I know, my answer was off the wall (yuck!)--
just wanted to have a little peppermint schnapps w/ the O.P.! :9

P_P
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #52
56. Southern Comfort, actually...
100 proof.

:evilgrin:

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Pierogi_Pincher Donating Member (323 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #56
61. Mmm. Reminds me of drinkin' days. Husband & friend finished off
bottle of Wild Turkey in one sitting. They were two complete turkeys for the next few days. I could handle 'Comfort & Coke' back then. (Whatta wuss!) In my old age, can't handle anything stronger than glass of vino or a diminutive aperitif.

Do I get into hot water for posting off topic? Uh-oh.

P_P
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #39
48. Lewis Lapham ?
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. WINNER!!!!! Here's your prize...
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 01:00 AM by Viva_La_Revolution
....... <----- 7 points :evilgrin:

What's the book?




Kurovski RULES!!



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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. Good night...
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 01:05 AM by Kurovski
But I couldn't have named the book, so I will accept only 5 points.

Happy full moon to all!

EDIT: I already saw the name of the book...You edited it out!!

Someone else will have to take a shot, so you're up for the duration!

Second edit; title clue: Conan was one.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. I hope you were the only one
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 01:16 AM by Viva_La_Revolution
or not, cause I really do need to crash soon.

:hug:

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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #50
54. good clue!
:*
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #39
62. Speaking of "LL"...did y'all hear that Lieberman Lost?
Yeah, that thing he was doing...in New England...the whatchamacallit. Oh, you know, the thingy he wanted...Gone.

Lousy Loser, too. Likely Livid about it. With Lieberman Licked, He's gone Loopy Lately.
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Pierogi_Pincher Donating Member (323 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #62
63. Whiny Losin' LIEberman
all my buds in CT better send another message to him in NOV.

CT born & raised, but unfortunately not residing there presently. I miss you, CT! :loveya:

Where do y'all think I perfected my pierogi pinchin' skill?!



P_P :dem:
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #63
64. Ya kin learn dose in Chigaagoo, too!
Yum.
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Pierogi_Pincher Donating Member (323 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #64
66. To the gracious original post poster,
my last mention of pierogis and then I'll shut-ee.

The communities of 'babas' who assembly-lined these out every few months had an unspoken kinda duelin' pierogi thing goin' on. The communities would report how many thousands were made & sold at each production. Thousands, hundreds of thousands! Potato, cheese, cabbage, and difficult to make, prune butter (lecqvar), swimming in just the right amount of butter. A plus for the circulatory system. (I swear tho' that the stresses of today will do ya in more quicker!) People came from far & wide. The sales were orderly--never any wedding gown bargain basement brawls. The good times. It may sound feeble, but I have to keep in my heart memories of a kinder, gentler time.

Now I shut up and go away.

:hi:

P_P
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #66
69. Potato Pierogis smothered in butter and sauted onions,
salt and a lot of black pepper.


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Jara sang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
40. Marcus Aurelius
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Jara sang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
44. Lucretius Titus Lucretius Carus
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #44
53. think 1997
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 01:18 AM by Viva_La_Revolution
and Kurovski got the author... Lewis Lapham. Title is still up for grabs....
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #53
58. Your "P" turned into a "T".
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 01:20 AM by Kurovski
Are you too "comfortably southern-ised", or what? ;-)
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. fixed
They're so close on the keyboard, ya know? :rofl:

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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #59
60. You got one tiny keyboard, girl.
:rofl:
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Mikimouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
45. Tacitus?...n/t
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
65. ttt n/t
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:06 AM
Response to Original message
67. Still looking for the title! Kick! nt
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