Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Fundies whipped into a frenzy in support of Israel no matter what they do

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:08 PM
Original message
Fundies whipped into a frenzy in support of Israel no matter what they do
Standing on a stage bedecked with a huge Israeli flag, Mr. Hagee drew rapturous applause and shouts of "amen" as he hailed Israel for doing God's work in a "war of good versus evil." Calls for Israel to show restraint violate "God's foreign-policy statement" toward Jews, he said, citing a verse from the Old Testament that promises to "bless those who bless you" and curse "the one who curses you."

The gathering was sponsored by Christians United for Israel, a national organization the 66-year-old preacher set up this year. The group lobbies politicians in Washington, rallies grassroots support for Israel and aims to educate Christians on what it calls the "biblical imperative" of supporting the Jewish state.

snip:
At a time when Islamist groups are displacing secular nationalists as the main vehicle for political revolt across the Middle East, Mr. Hagee and like-minded evangelicals are injecting greater religious fervor into American attitudes and policy toward the region. They see, and even sometimes seem to embrace, the notion of a global conflict between Islam and the Judeo-Christian West, just as do many zealous Muslims.

"This is a religious war that Islam cannot -- and must not -- win," Mr. Hagee wrote in a recent book, "Jerusalem Countdown," which focuses on what he says is a coming nuclear showdown with Iran. "The end of the world as we know it is rapidly approaching. ... Rejoice and be exceeding glad -- the best is yet to be." The book has sold nearly 700,000 copies since it was released in January, according to his Florida-based religious publisher, Strang Communications.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06208/709076-84.stm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. You said Fundies are in total support of Israel. Why then do
most Jews vote Dem????

I'm not slamming your headline, but asking a question. Most Jews are Dems, RIGHT? So what's the deal here?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Most Jews Vote D Because Of Their Commitment To Social Justice
eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I don't understand your point...
This is a prime example of fundies complete support of Israel no matter what they do. :shrug:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. That was the headline in the OP. I'm just asking why the fundies would be
able to be "whipped into a frenzie in complete support of Israel" when all I've heard forever was that the Jews in America are primarily Dems. No point really, just a question.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. How are the two connected?
Fundies are avid pro-Israel because of the bible and the prophecies in it. In their mind, if you don't support Israel, you're against god.

Again, I don't understand what Jews being Dems have anything to do with the article I posted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I'd think anti-semites such as fundies...
are ecstatic over Israel getting into this mess of a war.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. Because most Jews are NOT Israeli
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. I really don't understand your statement!
I guess I' really stupid on this subject, butcan you please tell me the difference between a Jew and an Israeli. Honest! To me that sounds like saying most Roamn Catholics are not Catholic!

Isn't Israel the homeland of the Jews?

PLeASE, tell me what you see as the difference.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Israel is a nation-state.
Citizens of the state of Israel are Israelis. There are a fairly large number of Israeli citizens who are not Jewish. Conversely, people who are citizens of other nation-states and not of Israel are not Israelis, even if they are Jewish. There are lots of Jews who are not citizens of the state of Israel, hence are not Israelis. It's sort of like saying that not all Catholics are citizens of Vatican City.

Did I make it simple enough for you to understand?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. OK, I guess my terminology was wrong. In OUR context,
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 08:47 PM by napi21
MOST Jews I've heard speak on the Israeli issue support Israel. Similar to most Catholics support Vatican City.

So, again, I say I don't understand the fundies claiming to agrue for Israel when most "Jews" are Dems.

Sorry, but it sounds like a political election year ploy to me!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Fundies are not pro-Israel for the same reason most Jews are.
As nearly as I can tell, there are two main reasons why the Fundies support Israel.

1. Because they are Biblical literalists, and the Bible (particularly the OT) is very big on Israel being God's Promised Land for his Chosen People.

2. Probably more important, Israel is the focal point for Fundies beliefs about the End Times, the Rapture, Armeggedon, and the Second Coming of Christ. All of the events in the middle east play into the Fundy's fixation with this business. They believe that supporting Israel is their personal ticket to Armeggedon.

I am neither a Jew, nor particularly supportive of Israel, so I can't really speak for the reasons behind the sentiments of Democratic Jews. I don't think their reasons for supporting Israel are similar to those of the Fundies though. Particularly not reason #2.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Fundies love Israel like Ronald McDonald loves cows
The Christian fundamentalists want all the Jews in the world to move to Israel so that they will be there to fulfil a prophecy about the End Times in which all Jews either become Christians or get killed. The Fundies have no interest in Israel being a safe place for Jews to live as Jews in the event of persecution in other countries; they just want to fatten Israel up for the Armageddon hamburger.

Tucker
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Can I steal that?
:rofl: Perfect description!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Of course!
My original phrase was "like Colonel Sanders loves chickens" but I like this version better. "Armageddon hamburger" is funny too.

Tucker
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. You could make a mint selling Armageddon hamburgers at Megiddo
:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. It's Because They Believe That To Usher In The End Times
the state of Israel must exist

that Israel must take hold of land that she doesn't have yet in the region

that a whole lot of other old and new testament prophecies cannot come into being without the existence of the state of Israel.

In other words, they welcome the state of Israel because it is part of the plan to bring about the end of time

I saw an interview with the Israeli Foreign Minster on ABC; he was asked what he thought about the RW Christian's support of Israel, he said (paraphrasing) "when the messiah comes, I will ask him if he is coming, or returning. If he is returning, then I guess we will all become Christians. If he is coming, then we will still be Jewish" (again that is a paraphrase even though it is in quotes)

These people support Israel only for their own purposes
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Israel was created after WWII. The Israel in the Bible
is not the same as the current, modern Israel.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. that's fine-- let them make supporting Isreali aggression...
...a religious extremist position.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. I came across his preaching this the other nite. Its a good
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 06:16 PM by Hoping4Change
article but doesnt mention the interesting metaphors Hagee used.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
7. They preacher told them to. They will go back to their
old ways if to many Jewish people get upset with Mel the fundie flick producer. BTW, I have nothing against biblical movies and have even really enjoyed some of them. But, The Passion sucked!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Fundamentalist Christian-Jewish Marriages Are Verboten
Something about being unevenly yoked.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. Not "No matter what they do"
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 06:37 PM by ThoughtCriminal
Any move towards peace or something that that does not lead to Armageddon is condemned. But not much of that lately.

For example:

"God considers this land to be his. You read the Bible and he says 'This is my land,' and for any prime minister of Israel who decides he is going to carve it up and give it away, God says, 'No, this is mine.' ... He was dividing God's land. And I would say, 'Woe unto any prime minister of Israel who takes a similar course to appease the E.U., the United Nations, or the United States of America.' God says, 'This land belongs to me. You better leave it alone.'" --Pat Robertson, on why Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon suffered a massive stroke

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/funnyquotes/a/patrob...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Anakin Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
11. I'd Sure Like to Whip Them
I am a sadist. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
12. I have never quite understood how exactly the right views the Jewish peopl
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 06:58 PM by nam78_two
:shrug:


1)On the one hand I think there is certain degree of unquestioning support for the state of Israel among the neocons...

2)But then there are the hard right crazies that think that every thing from 9/11 to the holocaust was part of some "Jewish conspiracy" . "Jews control the media" blah blah... :eyes:.

3)Then there are the hard right moderately crazy crazies that dislike "Jewish intellectuals", "secular Jews", "Jews controlling the media", "secular Jews from Hollywood" blah blah, but they also hate "those Arabs".

4)Then there is the Mel Gibson brand of bigot that hates the "Jesus-killers"-closely allied presumably with those Aryan Nation white supremacist type scum-bags...

5)Then apparently there is this brand of supportive fundie the OP posted about...its a new one to me.

In the balance I would have to think though that overall they dislike the American Jews (they are not just minorities but often *gasp* intellectuals too and as a community have had high representation in progressive movements in general-civil rights, feminism, environmentalism, animal rights). In the post 9/11 world in particular, my guess is the neocons have upped their support of Zionists, but I doubt that the right-wing overall likes the Jewish people any more now than they ever did. They were never their constituency anyway-they get what 15-20% of the Jewish vote?
Thats my (admittedly unscientific) thesis anyway.

But so much more complicated than their stance towards the rest of us minorities-the browns, blacks etc. ;).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Exactamundo!
I find their reasoning very strange myself. My mother is a prime example.

She says we must never turn our back on Israel...the US will be destroyed or something to that effect. It's based on bible beliefs and prophecy. On the other hand, she says Jews should accept Jesus as the messiah and all that.

:crazy:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
adriennui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. unlike the lefties, the rightwingers support israel
one needs friends. we all know the rapture doesn't exist and never will, so the fundies will support israel forever. good.

as far as your comments the only far righties that detest israel are the stormfront,racist, david duke right wing. they hate everyone but tolerate islam because islam wants to destroy israel/jews. the jews are the devil and the cause of every problem in the world (sounds like some of the hard lefties i encounter on here).


there are also many moderate republicans who feel israel is the only country fighting for the continuous existence of western values.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. The rapture doesn't exist, but I wouldn't put it past them to set a nuke
Just because they aren't going to have their supernatural rapture doesn't mean they would be beyond nuking Israel if they thought it a good way to bring about their end-of-world scenario, and that's why I don't think they should be trusted.

Tucker
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. I also think that they want to have policies
that promote the maximum amount of instability and violence in the region. They're never happier or more excited than when the region appears to be going up in smoke, and they firmly oppose anything that might bring about a stable and lasting peace. Peace for Israel and her neighbors means no Armageddon for them.

I don't think that they make very good friends for Israel, frankly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Peace for Israel means the anti-christ...
least that's what the fundies think. If somebody goes in and gets a stable and long lasting peace for the region, the fundies will point to that guy or gal and say 'There he is!' or she as the case may be.

It would be a twisted joke on bush if he got peace in the region...he'd be the a/c. :evilgrin: Not like that's ever going to happen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
16. I thougth you were describing this place, lol
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sinti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
18. There is an apocalyptic prophesy regarding Israel
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 07:20 PM by Sinti
that they want to have come real. Some nonsense about the temple will be built three times, and when it is built the third time, or some such, then the Lord will return. This temple has been built twice already, and a mosque sits on that piece of dirt right now.

They support Israel without question, though they think those Jewish folk are going to hell unless they convert, because the State of Israel must vanquish her enemies and rebuild the temple for their TEOTWAWKI wet dream to come true. Jesus will come back with a sword to slay us all and so on... it's quite a gory good time. I keep praying to god to rapture them soon... she keeps telling me be patient (I'm afraid she means with them and their ignorance).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
21. Go here for a progressive Jewish view on Christian
Zionism and Mr Hagee in particular. It's a long article with much good information

http://www.jewsonfirst.org/06b/cufi.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Apr 16th 2014, 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC