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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:46 PM
Original message
"Israel is doing Lebanon a favor"
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 05:53 PM by Clarkie1
About an hour ago, I was driving in my car listening to KGO radio in the S.F. bay area. The host of the show had a Lebanese guest, who had recently been evacuated. The guest had some interesting views, coming from a Lebanese citizen. He began by saying, "Israel is doing Lebanon a favor."

Here a a few points the guest made:

Lebanon cannot be a democracy as long as the Hezbollah militia exists.

1.3 million people in Southern Lebanon would die for Hezbollah, but they do not represent the view of the majority of Lebanese.

The President of Lebanon is a puppet of Syria.

Most Lebanese are afraid to speak against Hezbollah.

Hezbollah is the only militia not disarmed after the occupation.

He said Lebanon needs to focus on ridding itself of the influence of Syria and Iran, that Hezbollah is like the tail of a snake, and those countries are the heads.

Hezbollah formed because the people in Southern Lebanon had little hope...(this makes me think the root of the entire problem is economic, if the government of Lebanon can do for these people what the terrorist were...providing basic services, then the problem would go away)'

He also said, amazingly, "I hate to see the infrastructure of my country destroyed, but there can be no Lebanon as long as Hezbollah is stronger than the government" (paraphrasing, but that is what he said). He also said, "I hope Israel doesn't stop, this cannot be solved politically," and that things will get worse before they get better.


The program will be archived, and I will post on this thread when the archived audio is available. I thought this was a very interesting perspective, coming from a Lebanese citizen.
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maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. same comments from a lebanese junk bond trader
profiled in the NYT earlier this week.

same guy?
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QuestionAll... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. sounds like this story has been 'incubating'
if you catch my drift.

did you catch the guys name? Does he have a relative in some ad agency?
just wondering.
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I need to check the archived audio once it becomes available.
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 05:55 PM by Clarkie1
Didn't catch the first and last name. It sounded like he has family in the S.F. bay area, but had been living in Lebanon with family there.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. Without Getting Into The Merits Of His Argument
A nation that can't control armed militias within its midst is not sovereign.


I think that's pretty fundamental.


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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I agree.
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 05:59 PM by Clarkie1
So then the question becomes, what is the most effective way to help Lebanon become sovereign over it's territory?
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Gullvann Donating Member (314 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Thanks for cutting into the heart of the matter.
This whole thing is tearing my apart, because I support everyone.

Except Hezbollah. It is in IMHO all progressives around the globes interest that they are defeated. And defeated soundly.

But, how to do it? And how to do it without killing innocents. Not making things worse.

it's a mess alright.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
5. 8% of Lebanon feels that way...
so guess who the corporate media will give voice to? :think:
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Do you have a link for that statistic? nt
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. do you have a link for YOUR opening post?
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. You present second-hand the unsubstantiated overheard prattle
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 06:12 PM by TahitiNut
... of some unnamed person claiming to be Lebanese as though it's on some tablet brought down from Mount Diablo and then ask for links? Unreal.

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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Thanks guys, but it took me a second to remember where I read that...
:hi:
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. You did better than I could. I read that analysis, too, but ...
... I doubt I'd find it again, despite Google skills.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. As Jaun Cole says, "A letter to the editor worth reading":
...

The deliberate and systematic destruction of Lebanon's social infrastructure by the Israeli air force was also a war crime, designed to reduce that country to the status of an Israeli-US protectorate. The attempt has backfired. In Lebanon itself, 87% of the population now support Hizbullah's resistance, including 80% of Christian and Druze and 89% of Sunni Muslims, while 8% believe the US supports Lebanon. But these actions will not be tried by any court set up by the "international community" since the US and its allies that commit or are complicit in these appalling crimes will not permit it.

....

Tariq Ali
Noam Chomsky
Eduardo Galeano
Howard Zinn
Ken Loach
John Berger
Arundhati Roy

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1835915,00.ht...
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
33. no shit!
It is like putting those DLC freaks Schumer, Biden and Lieberman on TV week after week representing oh about 1/3 of real Democratic views. :eyes:
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'm sure the citizens of Beirut are saying "Thanks, IDF!" right now as
each bombs drops.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Thanks IDF! For getting rid of my kids! My parents, my neighbors, my
friends, my home, my neighborhood, my town, my treasures, my memories, my life...

Don't mind my tears I just can't thank you enough

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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
9. I suppose it's a lot easier to make such a statement
when you are sitting safely in America.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
11. Sounds like something an unapologetic rapist would say.
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
12. If that's the case, I hope Israel never does me a favor!
Good grief!
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guinivere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #12
29. No kidding.
I guess that's what friends do for one another.



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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
13. what seems absent from this discussion is that the guy you're citing...
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 06:11 PM by mike_c
...was discussing his perspective about internal divisions within Lebanese society itself, with an emphasis on "his perspective" and whatever axes he has to grind. Hiz'bullah militants in Lebanon are themselves Lebanese (with some very small percentage of exceptions, no doubt)-- those Lebanese would likely present a different perspective. Further, the U.S. media is intent upon demonizing Hiz'bullah so it doesn't surprise me that if they had to round up one Lebanese guy to represent "the Lebanese opinion" they'd pick a strongly anti-Hiz'bullah Lebanese to do it. Remember the footage that aired last week of young men in Beirut chanting their support for Hiz'bullah after the apartment block was bombed? They're Lebanese too, with an obviously different opinion than the one expressed by the guy you heard.

Lebanon is only just out of a long civil war-- it's not surprising that there are deep divisions among Lebanese about the roles each faction plays in the current government and the larger society, or even the degree to which factional alliegence trumps nationalism. The result is there probably isn't one person who can properly represent Lebanese public opinion about anything. I think there is a real danger in accepting such voices as broadly representative-- we did that with Ahmed Chalabi, too.

edit-- recall too that the roots of Hiz'bollah's support are in the poorer Shi'a parts of the country and neighborhoods-- not the sort of folks who frequently travel to America and end up being interviewed in American radio studios.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
14. Is he a Christian
I have met Lebanese Christians and they did have a civil war and may hate Lebanese Muslims.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
15. Oh goodie, you finally found one.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
17. In an abstract way,
he might be right. But the problem is that Israel's campaign has been so indiscriminate that it's destroyed the civilian infrastructure Lebanon needs to recover, & killed so many civilians that even more Lebanese are supporting Hizbollah's attacks. All while Hizbollah shows no sign of stopping the rocket launches. Israel went way, way overboard & damaged their creditability, and strengthen Hizbollah's reputation in the Arab world.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
18. yes, here is a picture of how well its going
http://graphics.nytimes.com/packages/html/world/2006080...

with favors like this, who needs scorched earth?
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
19. Hezbollah formed because Israel invaded Lebanon
not for economic reasons.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. I hope you'll check out this article about the origins of Hezbollah:
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 06:31 PM by scarletwoman
http://www.merip.org/mero/mero073106.html -- which I've posted in this thread: Hizballah: A Primer

The author is Lara Deeb: (from the linked site -- Middle East Report) "Lara Deeb, a cultural anthropologist, is assistant professor of womens studies at the University of California-Irvine. She is author of An Enchanted Modern: Gender and Public Piety in Shii Lebanon."

sw
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
22. It is a little simplistic to say
'Hezbollah formed because the people in Southern Lebanon had little hope'. Hezbollah was born from the people of Lebanon. Their government was never strong enough to keep others from coveting and occupying their land. They decided to fight for themselves.
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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
26. This sounds highly dubious. Where's the proof he is Lebanese?
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
27. Interesting perspective = One I agree with
I might be wrong, but I believe you guys have some credibility issues at this point.
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breakaleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
28. that doesn't seem to be the widespread opinion of most Lebanese
if you watch the news - not CNN - but say BBC - they will show many Lebanese, from all religious backgrounds, saying they didn't support Hezbollah in the past. But they do now.

As of now Hezbollah is the only group fighting the Israel invasion.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
30. A lot of mental midgets think we are doing Iraq a favor too
I hear this crap every day on cable news.

Don
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
32. this is sad
all of this is opinion without facts to back them up.

The only thing one can do with a post like this is pick at it, or take it for what it is: the opinion of this person.

And, I'm going to nitpick. I don't think this summary, removed commentary falls within the guidelines of current news or current events, despite the fact that the show just aired. Its a one-sided, circular argument from a citizen, not some consequential official. Not very newsworthy.

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Broken_Hero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
34. Locking...
New Rules...for discussion of this topic can be found here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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