Trying to say bye again.

[DistressedAmerican]

Since my last post was apparently too something for the mods to leave up, I'll just say that the attacks on me as an anti-semite, bigot, jew hater, etc. have caused me to leave. Such attacks are nothing but poison doled out by people that want to kill opposition. I will not tolerate them and the deletion of the posts did nothing to stop the constant string of attacks.

They win. I give the fuck up.

The offenders know who they are and they are mighty pleasd with themselves I'm sure. Probably straining a wrist patting themselves on the back as you read this. They can have the place. I won't waste any more energy on them or their attacks.

Anyone that wants to stay in the loop on new graphics, etc., please drop me a PM with your e-mail. Just because I'm leaving here does not mean I want to cut you all off.

I can also be contacted by e-mail at:
[e-mail]

What a fucking waste. It did not have to be this way. But, no other actions I took made any difference in stopping the attacks. Maybe this will be a wake-up call to someone.

DA

One last request to the DU mods:

Please do me the courtesy of leaving this message up. I have not named the attackers, even though they deserve to be known for what they are.

You may not love the post. But, it is not in violation of the rules. Its deletion would say far more about the environment here right now than it would about what I've written.

[Lerkfish]

1. amazing double standards here.

another poster who left from the opposite side had their thread up for days.

[jonnyblitz]

5. oh it's been noted by many. trust me. what you speak of. nt

[Guaranteed]

8. Well, did nadin's post attack the mods? nt

[jonnyblitz]

16. I didn't have the patience to read through that mess. nt

[leveymg]

30. Did Nadine B leave?

She was around here late this morning. G-d, no.

[Karmakaze]

35. No, why would it?

Her second goodbye one - if thats what you can call it did say that America was one step away from initiating a second holocaust, but I guess that is nowhere NEAR as bad as criticising a mod!

[jonnyblitz]

54. LMFAO!

[Guaranteed]

55. Hey, we all know where the line is. nt

[VelmaD]

59. got a link to her second goodbye?

I wish she'd go try to pull that shit in the Lounge. In there, if you post you're leaving and then don't actually leave they will tear your ass apart. *snort* GD is a bunch of softies.

[Howardx]

12. indeed it has

n/t

[displacedtexan]

7. I missed this whole thing.

What happened?

You've got my email addy, don't you?

Delilah

Edited: Oops. I meant to reply to Distressed American.

Sorry.

[K8-EEE]

2. Anybody Else Feeling Same Way: USE IGNORE FEATURE!

I hate what both the US and Israeli government is doing and think they are both creating more problems than they are solving. If anybody wants to label me as anti-American or anti-Jewish, I could care less, I'm very sticks-and-stones, and I think they are stupid for coming to that conclusion.

However I have found WAY more support than negativity here -- if you can't handle the negativity it's better to use the IGNORE feature, that's what it's there for.

[bobbolink]

63. Could we please agree that everyone has different limits and

boundaries, and different needs for handling hurt?

We all feel differently to different stimuli, and it's OK. We can't all be the same.

Some need to leave, and it's NOT a given that IGNORE is the best response. Remember... Dems have tried to ignore and be peaceable for 6 years now, and look at where that got us.

Some things NEED to be dealt with, and when that avenue is shut down, sometimes the only thing to do is to leave.

So, again, I ask... can we please agree that everyone has different limits and what works for one may not work for another?

Can we appreciate our personal differences?

Thank you.

[uppityperson]

3. k&r

yes, Skinner and Elad make the rules, the mods interpret them as best they can, and this is NOT democracy but a private forum, but it would be good to be able to leave this up a bit. Thank you.

Edited to add, I know the feeling, have been trying to walk away from the computer, NOT get myself banned or leave DU since I really appreciate the news reports and a bunch of posters. I have reconciled myself with the fact that there are some people who like to "discuss" in a negative fashion, and I will not be able to change their minds. Take a break, them come back and ignore the jerks. Keep hitting alert on them, and just ignore them. Hard to do, but I am trying.

Thank you.

[Catherine Vincent]

4. do you have the link to the thread that was locked?

[jonnyblitz]

6. it was deleted.nt

[Catherine Vincent]

19. Okay,.

While I was searching for it, I did see a thread that mentioned Ben Burch was tb'd. Definitely getting hot in here.

[Mandate My Ass]

25. Oh no!!

Ben Burch??

[Renew Deal]

29. Off the rumor mill

I heard he literally asked for it.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leveymg]

40. Not BB, too. Can we declare an Amnesty??? Admin?

[minkyboodle]

33. ben burch?

I didn't see that thread, that really sucks.

[KAZ]

46. BenBurch? What is going on here?

Been away from the board for a few hours, and now we're losing everybody? I guess it's mission accomplished.

[Virginia Dare]

9. If it was the one about Lieberman having a right..

to exist, I thought it was pretty funny. Maybe it wasn't supposed to be a joke.

[SmokingJacket]

10. You joined the brawl willingly -- why not just ignore?

I said this before in the other thread, but I think you should just take a break and come back when things cool down around here.

We need all the enthusiastic posters we can get! There are people on all sides of the issue here, and you must know that you're not alone.

[Nikki Stone 1]

11. KICK

[wakeme2008]

13. kick and nom

[malaise]

14. They win if you go

Ignore them.

[Swamp Rat]

15. peace brother

[ThomCat]

24. That is very cool, Swamp Rat.

[Swamp Rat]

44. I made that for everyone here... now is the time to band together.

DistressedAmerican is a valued member of DU and its about time we give him the support he deserves. He has been working around the clock making art for us and the rest of the world, even though he has a family to support and a career. I don't think people here realise the nature of his profession and the intellect and perseverance required to maintain his position. There are many bright and talented individuals here, some are even geniuses - DA is all of those things and more.

[Mnemosyne]

49. Hear, hear! n/t

[Running Amok]

76. BB asked me to ask you to email him.

[e-mail]

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. Why let them win?

Any where else you go you're going to run into the same sort of troll. Why not make a stand?

[DistressedAmerican]

32. Too tired and I haven't the time or energy.

I'd rather use the time on creating new work and getting it out there however I can. That is the key thing to me. There is always so much to be done. I just can't waste my time on this shit when the big picture is so in need of a repainting.

This whole past week has been a total waste of my life. I feel so strongly opposed to racism in all of its forms, I get really pissed when accused of such nonsense. I try not to let the insults bother me. But, they really do. No point in trying to deny that. I get snarky and I end up being the one in trouble. Just not worth the drain anymore.

I hoped the slew of alerts would do the trick. They did not.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. Ah, don't let it get to you.

Take the weekend off. Have a couple of margaritas. See a movie.

And I'll catch you in a couple of weeks. Alright? This place wouldn't be the same without you.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

18. Please Reconsider. You're Respecting The Vicious Fuckers More Than Those

who value your presence. And those vicious fuckers don't deserve to be put on a pedestal while those who value your words and wisdom are cast aside.

One thing you have to understand, when there are interpersonal flamewars that get to you, is that your point still gets across anyway.

I don't know what your responses to the topic are that you are railing against or what your position was. What I do know is that even when childish, abusive, unproductive and name calling posters start wars with you, your comments are still read by others who can gain value from what you had written. Just because there are groups who harrass and abuse viciously doesn't mean there isn't an entire community at DU who appreciate you and your opinions and value what you have to say.

So don't let the fuckers win. If you need to discuss a topic that is heated and the morons attack you viciously for, then keep it civil the best you can and stay factual and on point. That way no matter how vicious and childish they are in response, you had still provided a valuable opinion to your other fellow DU'ers who are still reading what you write.

So don't sweat the morons, ever. Type what you type, believe in what you type, believe in yourself, and believe that DU as a community will have a multitude of members who appreciate what you type, in spite of the fuckers that abuse you viciously and unfairly.

Fuck the keyboard bullies DA.

[cynatnite]

66. I second that...

People who flame, call names and say vile things aren't worth walking out the door over. My attitude is 'fuck 'em. they'll have to put up with me'.

The first time they name-call or flame, they've just lost the debate, IMO. Personal attacks show how incapable they are of making a coherent argument.

[BooScout]

20. I know who they are.....

They show up on every thread about Israel/Palestine/Lebanon.....and there aren't that many of them.

Don't leave. Take a break. Then come back and try and ignore them. Their name calling and vitriol is not worth any stress.

[Mandate My Ass]

21. I wish you the best of luck

Rest and come back. You'll be missed. K&R

[leveymg]

22. No. Stay and fight.

So what if you got deleted. I've been deleted. Lots of people who normally don't get deleted have been deleted lately. Everyone who has feelings feels strongly about the ME war.

Stay. Even if I disagreed with you, which I do sometimes, I wouldn't want you to leave. There are damned few people who I'd like to see disappear, even those who I strongly disagree with and who I feel have been at times unfair with me and others.

Come on. Don't let the bastards win.

[Misunderestimator]

23. I've heard this swan song before... just with different words.

How many verses does it have?

[wakeme2008]

26. lol you should see what comes out of the woodwork when you attack

the Cuban-Americans dancing in the street in Miami..... Yipes....

Myself on the Israel War Crimes issue have added a number of people to my ignore list......

[Renew Deal]

27. Claim you're an innocent martyr and move on.

I would be sad to see you go, but this isn't the first such declaration from you IIRC. Is it possible that you provoked the responses you got? You'll be missed. I love your American Freedom Fighter avatar and use it from time to time.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

37. No.

"Is it possible that you provoked the responses you got?"

Nope. People flipped DA a lot of unnecessary shit.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Renew Deal]

41. I know that you have dished your fair share.

You're no innocent in this, so don't pretend. BTW, I asked you yesterday. What was a lie?

[DistressedAmerican]

60. Maybe you haven't gotten the point here.

I'm done with the bullshit and the fighting. I'm done with the insults ann nonseense.

This is my last to you Bleechers. You are part of the problem. Not part of the solution.

Good fucking bye.

[Renew Deal]

64. You should look in the mirror

before making such declarations.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

69. There's no need to look in a mirror...

One needs to only look at this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

...particularly post number 3 to see that DistressedAmerican isn't the one with the problem.

[Renew Deal]

70. Posts 10 and 11

Both deleted and both his.

[uppityperson]

50. DA, walk away for a bit. So what if they win for a while, so what?

The rest of us know them for what they are, take a break, come on back.

[cry baby]

28. "How one thought will live, provide the others die"

-Moody Blues, "One More Time To Live"

We'll miss you, DA.

31. you are the only one who can really monitor your own behavior

You sometimes go overboard, which is generally a lot of fun. Creative people often are offensive to others. But this subject in particular, Israel and Palestine and now Lebanon, is high maintenance for the mods.

[DistressedAmerican]

67. If repeated alerts and deletions will not make it stop,

I do not know what else to do. And they don't.

Had someone been taken to the woodshed over this behavior rather than the pointless deletions followed by just reposting the same shit, I would not be at this point. Alerting does not get the behavior to stop. Only banning will do that and If these folks have not been banned after posting these insults over and over, it is clear to me that no one is really interrested in keeping this behavior from reoccuring. Sad state.

The approved channels have not worked.

As to my crossing the line. That happened only in cases where I'd already been repeatedly attacked. I do not sit by and let people smear me as a racist.

[uppityperson]

75. All we can do then is try to ignore them.

Being banned, having posts deleted is NOT always fair. Very much not always fair. All I can do is weigh the sides of what I can do. Leave DU or accept the nasty stuff and unfairness and be glad for what I can get here. We each have our own limits and tolerances. None of us are alone here since there are also others who share our own limits and tolerances. Get off the keyboard for a bit if you need to, then come on back.

And thank you mods for letting this stay open this long. It is needed.

79. Well, I saw a post of yours earlier and I

thought to myself that it was going to get you in trouble and I was going to say something, but then I thought it isn't my place to be holding people in line.

I have seen some of the hard-core pro Israel people wrangling with you and you can see it like a wrestling match or something. It doesn't bother me, I kind of like the little skirmishes, but some people are deadly serious about this subject.

You do some postings that are really outlandish, in order to make a point, which I think are funny, but humor is not always appreciated. And lastly telling the truth in loud words can get you in trouble the fastest. I know that too from personal experience.

[Bretttido]

36. Noo, don't leave; ignore those hate-mongering assholes

I got called an anti-semite twice today already; Did I say a single thing about Jews? nope, I just said that I don't agree with Israel's policy of escalating violence to a point that thousands of innocent civilians are killed. I hope the filthy trolls get banned from DU, but moderators seem overwhelmed.

[Rex]

39. Dam DA, first Ben now you.

WTF. Why run away from a fight? The forum has many features to block unwanted material. Just hit ignore. I don't, but then again I don't have rabid stalkers as you evidently do. If you leave it will just diminish the place. I've learned to easily ignore that shit. Just admit you won and that they are sore losers and move on.

Dude, don't go.

[Xeric]

52. Can somebody explain what terrible crime Ben committed?

You blink around here and you miss stuff.

[Rex]

65. Dunno.

EDIT- just emailed him. Hope he posts somewhere else, cuz I already miss him.

[malta blue]

42. Peace and tranquility my friend...that is all I can offer up.

[thethinker]

43. I think you should change your mind about leaving

I read here every day. Your posts have been a voice of sanity. I have appreciated them. Most have been well thought through.

Many of us are very upset by what is going on in the ME. We are upset because we can see where it is leading.

The people who are attacking every one that posts anything about Israel are very annoying, but we have ignore buttons for them. Many posters are not trying to add to the conversation, but are trying to drown out the conversations, and keep folks from talking about certain subjects. They did the same thing during Jenin. The best approach is use that ignore button and don't respond to them since they aren't trying to have a conversation in the first place. My mother always said, "Don't try to argue with a sign board". In other words, some posters aren't trying to have intelligent conversations on the issues, they are trying to stop intelligent conversations on certain subjects. Yes, the moderators should be able to see through it, but they are only human. So, use that ignore button and stay and converse with us. I would miss your valuable insight.

[karlrschneider]

45. Did you read the new rules & guidelines pinned at the top of GD?

...

[swag]

47. It's deja vu all over again.

[KAZ]

48. Please reconsider DA.

You're needed!

[countryjake]

51. On surrendering...

"I wish it to be remembered that I was the last man of my tribe to surrender my rifle." ~ Sitting Bull


If you do go, please keep up your good work! It won't be the same here without you, but the struggle is everywhere, afterall.

See ya 'round the bend, my friend! Peace

[Pathwalker]

53. I'm sorry to read this, DA. I will miss you.

DU is getting very scary these days...Ben Burch is gone too? So sad...

[theHandpuppet]

56. DA, please don't leave

We need your voice here!!

[Mnemosyne]

57. DA

I didn't read most of the I/L threads because of the nastiness. It was rather surprising to find such venom here. It seemed to start long before this issue cropped up though. I noticed much more venom since the Mookie Death threads.

There are still many more posters that are not vicious, than are.

I'm so sorry anyone attacked you so badly.

[cynatnite]

58. Sorry to see you go...

but name-calling, even if it's supposed to be banned, is the norm here at DU. A thick skin is required.

[akushuki]

61. Bye...

Since this crisis in Lebanon started I've been said to be 'drinking the koolaid', 'watching fox news' and being too stupid to carry on a conversation with. I'm relatively new to this board and guess what, I'm on the opposite side of the debate you are on.

Lets not fool around. Nearly everyone on DU wants peace and security in the middle east. The ideas on how to do that differ. Some say we should support democratic Israel and some say we should support freedom fighting Hezbollah and a third party says to not support either.

People get upset and they say things that are cruel and uncalled for, but you know what? Different opinions should not be cause to shy away from DU and I'm not in the least upset to see you go because you are most likely the type to insult another for their beliefs judging by your above rant. Bye and have fun in your shell. Don't try to listen to differing opinions too much.

[DoYouEverWonder]

62. It's only words

you shouldn't let anonymous interest posters cause you to leave DU. Remember back when 80% of the country supported Bush. Everyone disagreed with us. What else is new.

The whole Israel/IP thing is really ugly and there are some people that I will never see in the same way again, but that's not going to make me stop posting. If you stop, then they have won.

[Bake]

68. C'mon, DA! Toughen up!

Screw the people who irritate you. Hell, stick around and make them miserable! But stick around!

Bake

[mogster]

71. Don't go, stick around

You'll be missed

[Hoping4Change]

72. Please reconsider. Why not take a break as suggested?

[cali]

73. How dramatic of you.

You threw out personal insults with the best of them, started numerous threads that got locked, because they served no purpose as anything but flamebait, called people out by name, and yet you seem unable to recognize that your own behavior had anything to do with the reaction you got, and it wasn't just from the pro-Israel folks.

Just this statement here "I have not named the attackers, even though they deserve to be known for what they are." is a sterling example of hypocricy, considering the attacks you made in the thread that was just whisked away, not to mention the many more you've made.

[Running Amok]

77. I think this is a perfect example of what he was talking about.

Wouldn't you say?

[niyad]

78. I would hope that you will change your mind--your posts are very valuable.

please don't let the flame wars get to you.

[leftchick]

80. the attackers are well known

and it is amazing they are not reprimanded. At any rate I so understand where you are coming from DA. I hope to see you other places. I will find you!

Peace and keep up the good fight. You are optimism personified and DU will sorely miss you.

lc

[SPKrazy]

81. Save The Dramatics

don't let the door hit ya


bye

[LSK]

83. that kind of attitude is the reason people leave

And serves no purpose whatsoever.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

82. How many "I'm leaving" rants are you gonna have, already?

Jesus.

Edit - forgot question mark

[Peace Patriot]

84. Stay, Distressed American! Here's my policy if it helps...

First of all, I WANT to hear what the type of posters you are talking about have to say. It's a rare opportunity to plug into the collective unconsciousness that produces hatred, war, witch-hunting and oppression. And the hysteria that we see in the defenders of Israel's aggression--this automatic rebuke of anti-semitism to any criticism of Israel--is especially telling. I won't go into what I think of it all here--what it's telling me, and what potential solutions are--I'm just saying I find it useful, educational and thought provoking. And I try to work on that great Buddhist quality called "detachment." It is not coldness--it's the opposite of that--it's "detachment" from one's own stance, one's own ego needs in the argument, in an effort to bring compassion to a discussion that is fraught with anger and fear.

Secondly, I try to bear in mind the AUDIENCE--the great number of "lurkers" (curious people, people seeking info, trying to form their own views) and others who may not engage in the discussion very much, but are following it. Think of it as a DRAMA. Believe me, people do NOT automatically think you are an anti-semite because someone calls you that name. If the other side is irrational and unfair, IT SHOWS! Let it play out. Don't react so much on the basis of personal insult. Remember that old rhyme: "Sticks and stones can hurt my bones, but words can never hurt me!" There was a lot of wisdom in that.

If I decide to respond, I ALWAYS take a deep breath first--if I am pissed off at this kind of uncivil behavior--and reply as intelligently and cleverly as possible. If the nasty poster is redeemable--is just spouting stupid things out of ignorance--you might find some common ground. And if the poster is a mere troublemaker--naturally, or is being paid for it--that will become obvious, and you can simply ignore future posts. The point is not to get defensive, and to try to raise the discussion out of the school yard level--where bullies have the advantage--onto a higher plain, where they DON'T have the advantage.

There have been a number of harmful campaigns here at DU--on various issues. This isn't the first. I have come close to leaving DU myself because of some of them. I think it's better to try to FIGURE THEM OUT--and try to help restore useful discussion, if you can. We are seeing something like a "marketplace of ideas" here at DU--good and bad. A REAL debate--with attendant ill and good motives, probably with some paid operatives and saboteurs, just as would be the case if we were sitting in an ancient Greek town square, where anyone may speak. We have to develop our debating skills! The corporate news monopolies have shut us all up for too long. We need to re-learn how to think, how to persuade, how to deal with hecklers and how to communicate with each other about our government and the world. The DU Election Forum--the scene of many a similar bloody battle--is yet a good example of how well this open forum can work, and what a great contribution it can make to the recovery of our democracy.

I urge you not to give up on it, Distressed American! You are a highly valued member of DU. We need you! Take a break if you need it. But do come back!

[k_jerome]

85. was it before or after ....

this call for reasoned debate where you are able to characterize all supporters of Israel that these heinous, one sided, baseless attacks upon your innocent person began:

What I have learned about the pro-Israel crowd

They excuse any crime committed by Israel while trying desperately to blame the victims of the atrocities for their own deaths.

The always accept the version of events offered by the IDF and other Israeli government agencies as fact, some even after the IDF has admittied the lie.

They bring any distraction possible to an argument in hopes of discussing anything but that actual facts about what Israel is doing.

They have sold out all other liberal and progressive values they may hold in their cozying up the the right wing warmonges behind the slaughter. Many of which are fundie anti-semites looking for the Jews to be wiped out or convert to fundyism. The same people that believe that 6 million of Hitler's victims burn in hell for nothing more than being Jews when they died. Some allies.

They endores continued senseless killing (in the name of peace no less) and reject any implication that Israel may want to compromise with its neoghbors to achieve peace rather than just blow them the hell up.

Must suck suddenly being a neocon after fighting them so long.

That is the problem with a one issue voter. Willing to sell out everything else for their one issue.

Oh yeah, some leave angry messages telling us how we do not care about the truth (which I guess they have a monopoly on), that we are Hezbollah supporters, anti-semites, etc. for opposing the slaughter of Lebanese innocents. Some logic!

Sadly, they also own all of the politicians in this country, which apparently makes them feel jusitified and right in their support of war crimes. Just like we should have all felt the Iraq war was right because it was popular with asshole politicians I guess.

[pinto]

86. Locked.

We gave it a shot. This thread's become a rehash of past complaints, PA's and general sniping.

Thanks.