Question from Norway - Next Democratic administration?

[Gullvann]

Heisan!

I visited this forum during the Muhammed cartoon crisis, when my country was enveloped in a storm over those infamous cartoons.

Anyhow, I have been discussing a lot of politics over the summer with my friends and we are wondering what to expect from the next American administration(which we hope and pray will be lead by the Democrats).

What do you think will change?

Primarily in foreign policy? The war on terror? Mel Gibson? (just kidding), Nato?, WTO?, Turkey into the EU?

And, also domestic policy? What is on the agenda there?


I hope some of you have some thoughts to share.


Other than that, I just hope that you don't sweat too much in the summer heat.

It is hot here in Norway as well.

Vennlig hilsen,

Gullvann.

[LSparkle]

1. A Democrat will restore honor and 5-syllable words to the presidency

As well as the possibility of universal health care, a no-strings-attached increase to the minimum wage, restoration of tax fairness (make Paris Hilton and co. pay their fair share and reduce the burden on working people), welcome scientific advances (not ignore them) ...

but wait, THERE'S MORE ...

[Gullvann]

5. I cannot believe that you don't have universal

health care yet...

About tax fairness. The rightwingers made a big stink just this year after we took over power, because we are demanding that the "Paris Hilton's" pay their fair share.

Norway's riches man promtly renounced his citizenship and left for a tax paradise. Good riddance, I would not want such people anyways!

But, what about foreign policy?

BTW: I am glad that you care about domestic policy though. I am always arguing with my comrades that although international solidarity is important, we must never lose sight of the fact that our primary mission is to make sure our own country is decent. In the end, a well working domestic policy will lead to more international solidarity anyways.

[LSparkle]

13. I agree with a post below -- a cooperative foreign policy,

one that does not preach TO other nations, but that dialogues WITH them. Interventions only as a last resort and for the right reasons (humanitarian crises, TRULY imminent threats), and a return to diplomacy and a respect for the U.N. and its capabilities. Global summit on global warming, regional summits on regional problems, but above all, a sense of community with the rest of the world, not an "us-versus-them" attitude. We must admit that we are not -- and cannot/should not be -- the world's policeman, and we should stop referring to ourselves arrogantly as the "world's sole superpower." (Yeah, try telling THAT to China!)

[Gullvann]

26. I think for the long term, both Europe and the US should

start preparing for not being the only players in the world anymore. We have Russia in chaos, but with huge natural resource reserves that probably (hopefully not) will get only more important.

But, more importantly we have off course China and India emerging.

I think whether we like it or not, we are in for some lessons in humility in the next 30-50 years.

We just as well might start right away

It would be great to see America return as a "friend" on the world stage.

Bush just keeps ordering people around. Oh, The norwegian PM said something I didn't like: I am not talking to him. The EU is in crisis with its constitution: Bush orders them to admit Turkey. And off course, Yo Blair

[SoCalDem]

2. Welcome...Gullvan

We certainly hope to restore some sanity to our government, BUT we have those pesky "election machines" here, so we never know.. We DID elect Gore...and we probably elected Kerry, but I'm sure you have seen the imbecile who's sitting on the throne..

It's an uphill struggle, but we are trying

Keep your fingers crossed for us..

the weather...well that's another story..

last week it was 119 here ..don't know what that is in celsius, but it was HOT!

[Gullvann]

7. Thanks for the welcome. 119?

At least its not Fahrenheit 911...

I think here it has been in the upper 80's and 90's. For a poor Norwegian that is very hot. LOL.

But, people after now 6 years must be waking up? The whole world in chaos? Katrina? etc?

[GAPeace]

3. I tell you as a pragmatic American: not much

We may see them back off many of the more right-wing wet dreams, but the Democrats have largely enabled the Republican actions. They are not too different than them now.

[Gullvann]

10. That's what I have been reading in a Michael Moore

book, I have been reading over summer. That the two parties are increasingly the same.

Well, if it is any comfort (it should not be) it is kinda similar in Norway. Arbeiderpartiet (Our labour party seems to be as well loved by the corporations as the conservatives). Thank goodness we got the Socialist left party in as well.

But, to tell you the truth, I don't think that have made all that much of a difference yet. It got us out of Iraq, which is no small thing, but little has happened on domestic policy, except that the fat cats are going to have to finally start paying their fair share. But, off course they are running out of the country. Lol.

I don't know. We just have to keep on fighting I guess.

Is there no chance that the Democrats can be dragged back to the left?

[GAPeace]

20. I don't think there's a huge chance that the Dems will go left

Americans are too energenized by war, too drawn to the right.

There are still some great progressives in our Government.

Check out the Congressional Progressive Caucus and the Black Caucus.

[Gullvann]

28. Too energized by war? How is the media environment

over there? It totally propaganda 24-7?

BTW: I doo think the war on terror is important. Except it isn't a war on terror, and it is being waged in a totally wrong way, AND WITH BUSH with the totally wrong attitude.

[HereSince1628]

4. Hi and welcome...

I'm just posting about a nuance of American culture as viewed by Democrats. A person can be a Democrat. An administrator can be a Democrat. But, our party is the Democratic Party and an administration run by members of our party would be a Democratic administration.

The use of "Democrat administration" is going to be seen by Democrats as a Republican abuse of the party's name. Most wouldn't take offense knowing a person is from outside the US, but it's one of those quirky details of popular American English.

[Gullvann]

12. Thanks very much for the correction.

I think I managed to correct it. I appologize if anyone took offense.

It was certainly not my intention.

[HereSince1628]

18. I know, it's just one of those quirky things.

I'm sure your welcome on DU.

[JackNewtown]

6. Foreign policy? Nothing substantive nt

[Gullvann]

14. Really? And you agree with that? nt

[JackNewtown]

33. I vehemently disagree with that

Sadly, though, both parties are basically the same in terms of their foreign policy objectives and virtually all policies. The differences between the two is generally tactical, not strategic.

[Gullvann]

35. You know. Sometimes I get the feeling that corporate capital

has bought everyone.

[Greyhound]

42. Not everyone, just nearly everyone that counts.

I have been repeatedly excoriated for daring to expose the fact that amerika has had only had one party for about 30 years now.

I'd like to see a law requiring all public officials to wear the logos of all their corporate sponsors whenever they appear in public.

[Gullvann]

44. hehe. That would be great. I would love to see Cheney have

to go on the podium with a big Halliburton shirt on.

Then again, he probably not even be ashamed.

Hopefully the citizens would be smarter.

Sign me up that law.

I would love to see the politicians looking like soccer plauers

[warrens]

8. My guesses

Universal health care, a collaborationist foreign policy, reinstitution of taxes on the wealthy, repeal of the idiotic prescription plan, and hopefully some long jail terms for the present squatters in the people's house.

[Gullvann]

16. long term jail sentences....

Send them to Guantanamo

[RufusEarl]

9. Welcome, Let's see we have @ five real candidates, and a few maybes.

When the dust settles we'll unite behind whomever gets the nod, allot want like it but we're prepared to do it because were aware of the consequence.

We have a good chance to take the house in the midterms, i'll be optimistic and add the senate but that's a long shot.

But i don't envy whoever gets the gig, trying to straighten out the mess this country is in will be monumental. But i think and hope for our country's sake, that citizen will turn out in droves to elect dems. Next!

[Gullvann]

19. That has got to be a major problem. Cleanup.

The next administration will have to spend so much time cleaning up after this one. Hands will be tied behind their backs because of the national debt. International relations are in tatters.

Then Tony Blair is gone, there are no friends left. Well, except for Australia's Howard

I think Gordon Brown though is a good friend of many US democrats. Then again Brown is quite tainted by being part of the Blair government.

[Tinksrival]

11. Hi Gullvann!

Welcome back!

Can I just say I love Jens!

and I love Norway!

My grandparents (Thorson) immigrated from Norway and I have aways wanted to visit!
If we don't get these backward rebublican neocons out of power, I am seriously looking for a sponsor in Norway. I must still have some relatives somewhere!

Vennlig hilsen,

Wendy

If we don't win back the house, they stoled it, AGAIN!
There is more of us than there are of them!

[Gullvann]

21. Hi Wendy.

I got a few problems with Jens.

He looks too good. Jealous

He is too nice I think. Wants to be friends with everyone.

But, he is honest though. A rare trait in a politician.

In the election campaign, he admitted that there wasn't all that much of a difference between him and the conservatives (It has to be said that Norwegian conservatives are probably to the left of most of the Democrats. lol). He did emphasise though that the differences were important, and that particularly over time, they would make a major difference into what society we are going to build.

But, that is why I am happy that the socialist left is part of the government, so we can hold Jens in his ear and keep him looking leftwards

[longship]

15. Welcome to DU from a Norwegian-American.

My grandparents on my father's emmigrated from Norway at the turn of the 20th century. I still have many cousins in the old country and all with my last name (Flonaes--sorry don't have the right international characters here) are direct relatives.

[Gullvann]

22. I don't think we are closely related then. lol.

Where did your family come from?

Thanks for the welcome btw.

[longship]

25. I think Bergen.

I had a great uncle who lived a long, long life in Trondheim.

[Gullvann]

30. See Bergen. Then you are not even Norwegian :-)

Internal Norwegian joke. People from Bergen are fiercly proud of their local heritage, and jokes that they are not from Norway, they are from Bergen

It is a lovely city though. Really lovely, even though it rains too much.

Trondheim is ironically the main rival town to Bergen. Huge football (soccer) rivalry.

[longship]

41. I love what the Norwegians did during the Norwegian Olympics.

I saw on the Internet that they were selling maps of Scandinavia with the entire Swedish peninsula as ocean. I would have loved to have one of those, because my mother was Finnish.

Great sense of humor, those Norwegians.

My father used to say, "Ten thousand Swedes marched through the weeds to lick one sick Norwegian." My mother would respond, "A smart Norwegian is the same thing as a dumb Finn."

[Gullvann]

43. Sweden is really interesting to me.

I want to bring that up another time though, since I think it time for me to go to bed soon.

But, Sweden to me is a country that has taken "progressive" politics too far.

I don't really like the term progressive, what is wrong with social democratic?

I do realise that some of these terms don't translate to well across national borders though.

Perhaps, I will see you again on that thread sometime in the future.

That is bound to be a bit more controversial

[eridani]

52. Reminds me of the Ballard joke we have in Seattle

Q. How do they celebrate the 4th of July in Ballard?
A. The Swedes throw firecrackers at the Norwegians, and then the Norwegians light them and throw them back.

[Jacobin]

17. I'm pessimistic

In 2008, I see any progressive candidate for president drummed out by the mainstream media.

I see a contest between a neo-conservative republican and a democrat who supports the continuation of our insane foreign policy. No one wants to 'lose the war on terror', and so the democratic president will continue the slide into insanity started by the republicans, so they don't call the democrats 'weak'

That's about where we are in this country. Mindless, spineless, ignorant, sycophants worried only about power. We have few statesmen and those that remain are impotent and laughed at by the media talking heads, so their wisdom can be ignored.

Sorry about that Norway.

[Gullvann]

23. I am sorry to hear. I see that Hillary has seemed to

move waaay rightwards for instance on foreign policy.

The world, I think, will be majorly dissapointed if the next elections is contested on the basis on who is the most aggressive, toughest war leader.

Then again, we were shocked that Kerry did not win or

I want John Stewart to run

[GAPeace]

27. Hillary is being challenged in her Primary

By Jonathan Tasini: www.tasinifornewyork.com

He's a great leftist and will be on the ballot but was told he need 500 THOUSAND DOLLARS to get into the debates.

That's insane.

[Gullvann]

37. That sounds crazy. I just bookmarked that site.

Is this for the senate election right?

What happens with Hillary's presidential ambition if she is not reelected to the senate?

Who is the republican she is facing? Is NY a democratic lock?

[GAPeace]

48. NY is a Dem lock; Tasini is for Senate yes

If she loses the Senate seat there goes her presidential bid.

Which is why I'm sure the most powerful forces behind the Democratic party will pull out every dirty stop to keep Tasini from being elected.

[Gullvann]

51. Do you think Tasini has a realistic chance? nt

[Tinksrival]

29. Kerry did win.

That is our biggest hurdle, in my oppinion. Election reform and fair and accurate voting. We will see with the mid terms in November if they are still stealing elections. People are fed up and if they still pull shit, I think it's going to blow. But then again I thought that in '04.

What is the voting system in Norway like? You don't have Diebold I hope!

[Gullvann]

39. In Norway, you go into a voting booth and there

are a note lying around for every party represented. From the beer lovers party, to the kill-darwin-and-outlaw-abortion-part, and off course the more mainstream parties. Then you pick the note of the pary you want to vote for. Put that into an envelope, exit the booth, and put your envelope into the voting box. Then votes are manually counted.

The thing about Kerry. I never liked him much. I was hoping for Edwards or Dennis Kucinich I like it when progressive politicians focuss on blue collar issues. Off course Kerry would have been waaaay better than the current president. But, i would love to see the Democratic party (I hoped I used the right expression) would find a really strong charismatic candidate who is an old style socialist.

I guess I am your grandfathers socialist.

My goal is for everyone to have the best life they can, in a fair and progressive environment as possible. But, everyone must make their fair share to society.

[TygrBright]

24. Please do not expect too much, too fast...

...as any Democrat who tries to instantly reverse everything done in the last eight (heck, the last 30!) years will come a-cropper of a hostile Federal bureaucracy and a conservative judiciary-- policy minefields and ambushes and boobytraps strewn everywhere. The current Administration is doing its best to 'salt the field' and leave things arranged so that attempts to reverse or change its policies will be difficult and fraught with damaging, unintended consequences.

A smart Democratic Administration will concentrate on taking steady, small, strategically-calculated steps that can add up to big changes in the long run.

You can almost certainly count on a foreign policy conducted on more traditional (dare I say conservative?) lines, though-- relying on diplomacy rather than crude threats, alliance-building rather than unilateral demands, etc. The goals are likely, however, to remain the same in many key areas, especially the Middle East. Democratic politicians are as blinded by their self-interest and preconceived ideas as Republican politicians when it comes to that region. Look for small but well-publicized gestures that accomplish very little other than to make the new Administration look like a viable player. They will need a couple of years to establish any kind of credibility that would permit them to have real influence in the region.

Otherwise foreign policy will probably be mostly a matter of running around with a broom and a pan and a fire extinguisher, trying to clean up the messes left by * & Co. Anything meaningful that happens will likely be happening behind the scenes. In the UN it's likely that a more conciliatory posture and rhetoric will be assumed, but little actual significant change unless/until much groundwork is laid. Goals are likely to be small and somewhat contradictory, with attempts to reform the bureaucracy and limit the influence of states regarded by the US as "extremist" and/or violently antithetical to US interests, and continuing attempts to protect what the US has come to regard as a privileged position based on its economic clout, military might, and general willingness to be obnoxious and obstructive. However, a Democratic Administration is likely to be willing to horsetrade on some things, and to make small concessions with big PR value but little real effect.

I'm very sorry I can't be more encouraging, but it's hard to explain to a small, rational state like Norway how very complex, unwieldy, contradictory, and conflicted the US Government is. There is literally "no one in charge" by design, and thus change must take place through a protracted and tortuous process. Ninety percent of this process takes place out of the public eye and away from the scrutiny of the media, not always by intent, but simply because there are so many people and committees and agencies and special interests and key players involved, spread all over a very large conceptual and geographic map. This is frustrating, but when someone tries to 'take charge' (like * & Co.,) you can see why the system was set up this way. The evils of an efficient tyrant far, FAR outweigh the evils of an inefficient participatory system.

Add to this the fact that there is a hard core of nearly a third of our population, bolstered by a very small but VERY rich and powerful cabal of interests, who have gone absolutely bugfuck nuts for thirty-five years and run rampant roughshod over the Constitution and the government. They are still loaded for bear, unregenerate, and will immediately dig their heels in HARD and work with everything they have to undermine anything that looks like chipping away at the gains they've made. They are nearly a third of us, and there is another third or so that is most tenderly concerned for the civil and human rights of these fellow-citizens and will not tolerate having them rounded up and sent to re-education camps or even having their sacred free speech/expression/campaign contributions suppressed. The other third uneasily thinks we could maybe find a way to pull some of the rug out from under these toxic nutjobs, but hasn't come up with any ideas that will pass a Constitutional test.

I wish I could be more encouraging, but honestly, our best hope lies in small steps to progress, combined with exposure to the light of just how sleazy the forces of darkness have been, to consolidate a more sane approach to US government over the next sixteen years or so. THAT would result in some sustainable progress. Wish us luck!

apologetically,
Bright

[Gullvann]

32. Bright. Thank you. I almost got goosebumps reading that.

I love reading well thought out political thoughs. It is one of the problems being a political junkie.

Anyhow, I am a realist so I am not so discouraged. I think that if a Democratc (see I have learned) administration follows your outline it would be a huge improvement.

You wrote:

"A smart Democratic Administration will concentrate on taking steady, small, strategically-calculated steps that can add up to big changes in the long run."

That is exactly the attitude of the new socialist government in Norway. When I was 18 years old I would have cried foul, but now when I am older I think this is the best and ONLY way to sensble way to procede.

As I wrote elsewhere here (and expressed here in my last visit), I think the "war on terror" (gosh I hate that term) is important, and the world needs the US to take the lead. We just need wise Americans to be in charge.

There is probably a lot of scare propaganda about you. You should have seen the internet ads made by the young conservatives in Norway. Comparing is with Stalin and Mao etc.

I think by now, people (those who where scared) are starting to calm down, and we can slowly, but surely start to stear the ship in the right direction.

Even for a small country like Norway I believe that to be important, and anything like a revolution would not be possible here either.

[Greyhound]

31. The less you have to do with amerika the better off you will be.

The next administration is the patsy set up to take the blame when the real, mostly un-noticed, policies kick in.

We have been masterfully distracted with all the BS shiny objects for the last five years, and eventually these policies will come into full force. That's when the shit will really hit the fan, if you're lucky we will turn our hatred inward and have some kind of civil unrest, maybe a war/revolution. If you're not lucky, we will look outside the country for somebody else to blame and the rest of the world will suffer.

Hey, welcome!

[Gullvann]

34. I hope you don't invade us for our oil :-)

Seriously though.

Off course things are tough at the moment, but keep your chin up.

There is one conservative polician that I have always loved. For his attitude during hard times, and that is Winston Churchill. Don't blame me, I got that in with my mothers milk

Had parents who survived the second world war by being rescued by Britain

Never give up! Never surrender!

[Greyhound]

38. Oh no I' not giving up, but I have lost the last shred of faith in the

amerikan sheeple. Therefore, I am trying make sure that I can get my love and my dogs the hell out of here when it does come down.

I also know that, though the times be harsh today, we will look back on this in the next few years as easy living, as the bills come due.

I have no relatives living anywhere civilized, so I'll have to buy my way into wherever I can get to.

[Gullvann]

40. Come to Norway.

Except don't bring your dogs.

I am a cat person. lol.

[Greyhound]

45. Oh please, they're both retired racers and they love kitties and sleeping.

[Gullvann]

49. OK, then. Come one over :-)

I am sure the dods would love to spend their final years running along the fjords.

Klem,

Gullvann

[baldguy]

36. America is a third world country

Superstitious, provincial, ignorant of the world & damn proud of it. Their neighbors could starve and as long as they don't see it, Americans are OK with that.

We have no national health care, in part because the less fortunate among us don't "deserve" to have medical treatment - they didn't "earn" it.

It is now a crime in several American cities, punishable by fines and/or imprisonment to feed homeless people who now have nowhere to turn for food.

Every winter, thousands of people have to make a choice between heat, food, or their medication to live.

Many areas will not suffer a witch to live.

[Gullvann]

46. The big irony to me is that the Christian right is in control

at the moment. The CHRISTIAN right. They should be all about the love of their fellow man.

Some missionary should come and Christianize Christianity

For the record: I am Christian in case anyone got offended (everyone gets so easily offended these days)

[welshTerrier2]

47. here's my wild speculation ...

i see a number of long term trends likely to evolve over the next five or ten years ... whether these trends evolve may be based less on which party controls the US government and more out of sheer necessity ...

the current administration has had an unbelievable "go it alone mentality" ... it's insane and it's expensive ... i think the next administration is far more likely to rely more heavily on NATO than the current administration ...

the vision of an over-extended US is also reaching down to more and more Americans ... perhaps when bush is gone, there will be something of an isolationist pressure in the US ... i view this as an "equal and opposite" reaction to bush's foreign adventures ... this might take the form of closing many of the unnecessary US military bases around the globe ... at this time, the US maintains more than 700 of these bases ... I also think an isolationist retreat may see Senator Dorgan's effort take hold in the US ... he's fighting against "globalization" ... there may be domestic legislation to encourage multi-national companies to hire more US-based workers and to stop exporting jobs to Asia ...

this administration has also been incredibly hostile to the UN and also to the whole idea of using diplomacy rather than militarism to solve problems ... I expect the future will see a backlash against that as well ...

summing all this up, I suppose I see an inevitable swinging back of the pendulum from all of the insanities the whole world has had to endure under the neocons ... whether Democrats will truly put a stop to American imperialism and American empire is anybody's guess ... it is not at all clear to me that Democrats will have the power or the inclination to put an end to an oil-based foreign policy ... let's hope they do ...

[Gullvann]

50. I think that some degree of movement towards isolationism is virtually

inevitable.

And, I think it not neccesarily a bad thing.

I think we (the west) have suffered from a bit too much hybris.