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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:56 AM
Original message
Is Dan Rather A Neocon?
He was on O'Riley last night and he said as a result of the current conflict "Israel now shares a border with Iran." He went on to elaborate that Hezbollah was a proxy of Iran and was attacking Israel at Iran's behest.


I'm sure there's a transcript out there.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. Just like Dr. Seuss was a pedophile. Riiiiiight.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I Find It Intersesting Where Ideas Converge And Diverge
eom
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
2. Does the sun rise in the west?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
3. He can be wrong.
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 09:01 AM by mmonk
In some respects, he is right but I don't think Hezbollah takes all of it's marching orders from Tehran and it's an exaggeration both liberals and conservatives buy into. That's why this conflict is so exciting for the neocons. It will help them achieve their objectives as people that normally would oppose such an extreme and risky agenda become adherents to A Clean Break.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
5. Of course he is!
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 09:05 AM by in_cog_ni_to

He's defending Israel, isn't he? Yesterday a Leftist Liberal trying to take down the psycho-in-chief, Today...defending Israel, he's a NEO-CON.

Didn't you get the Progressive's memo? Get with the program, would ya?
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Yes
Dan Rather sacrificed an illustrious career to take down our simian leader.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
7. Is this going to be another thread lacking legitimate
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 09:09 AM by mmonk
discussions and concerns and thus just another bait and paint thread?
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I Think It's An Interesting Point Of View
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 09:58 AM by DemocratSinceBirth
and one that that can be discussed intelligently.


I do think Iran wants to be the hegemonic power in the Middle East and their hegemony is contingent on ridding the area of American and Israeli influence.

This can not be accomplished without horrors that even the most dystopian fantasists would find unpalatable.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. I REALLY Doubt Dan Rather Is Close To A Neocon....
more a Bill Moyers type. I would like to hear more, but maybe statement were taken out of context. Wouldn't be the FIRST time you know!!!
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. I Watched It. I Didn't Record It.
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 09:50 AM by DemocratSinceBirth
Rather's analysis of the situation rested on the premise that Hezbollah was prosecuting a proxy war against Israel at the behest of Iran.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. That seems to be
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 09:49 AM by Marie26
the analysis of most Middle East experts. (You meant at behest of Iran, right?)
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. I Fixed It.
Thank you.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. It wasn't a point of view. It was a question.
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 09:38 AM by mmonk
And I accept your answer by the way.

Look at my answer.
Look at incognito's answer.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. Maybe My Title Was A Bit Tendentious
I was trying to make the point that it's "ok" to simultaneously oppose Bush's misguided foreign policy while opposing Iran's efforts to become a hegemonic power in the region.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. While I think
the title was nonsense, I agree with the idea that a person can be opposed to the Bush -- and current Israeli -- actions, but still have grave concerns about segments of the Iranian government. It seems reasonable to conclude that Iran is moving towards being the "hegemonic power in the region." I think that there are good reasons to be concerned about the spread of WMD in the region, including Iranian efforts to acquire nuclear weapons. Yet that does not mean I support the current policies of the Bush-Cheney administration, or Israeli actions in Lebanon.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Peace
I was trying to be ironic. I apologize if I came off as moronic.

I was trying to use irony to demonstrate that believing Iran has bad intentions and being a neocon can be mutually exclusive.

To use ordinary language Iran is using or instigating Hezbollah to mess with Israel to advance their goals in the area. The sad thing is that Lebanon and Israel are being destroyed in the process, though I will agree Lebanon has suffered the brunt of the fighting.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Peace
After reading the title, I saw that you wrote the OP, and read it for that reason. While we might not see eye to eye on some details of this conflict, I always respect your opinion.

One of the things that I think is important for all of us is to keep an open mind. I try to read as many things (and not just on DU) by people I might disagree with, as those I do agree with. A good example might be Kenneth Pollack; while I might not agree with his opinions, I can respect the research he did for his book "The Persian Puzzle." (Random House, 2004) He provides an interesting history of "the conflict between Iran and America." I think that I benefit from reading his work, and comparing it with other points of view.

Another thing that I think is important for all of us to recognize is that violence is very difficult to "control." And that goes farther than the horror of innocent civilians dying -- and I do not care if a person is one ethnic group or another, or religion, etc -- and beyond the wasted lives of the dead soldiers on either side. In this conflict, there is evidence that some of the participants on both sides are willing to step it up .... in their view, to do "whatever it takes" .... to "win." And we no longer live in the world where we have that luxury. For violence controls men far more than men control violence, and just as surely as weapons of violence are made to be used.

It would be nice to see more of the creativity, insight, and other related talents that DUers have used in a constructive manner in the next few days. That actually can happen. It is a possibility. That choice is ours to make.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
8. Bullshit.
I didn't see the show & can't make a decision on the scant evidence you've provided. Since you brought it up, it behooves you to FIND that transcript.

Perhaps I don't agree with him 100%. But he's definitely NOT a Neocon.


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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. We'll See
I paid $9.95 to a transcript company . They said I should have the transcript by 5 PM. I'll post it then.

I resent the implication that I am a liar:

"A good name is better than precious ointment."

- Ecclesiastes 7-1
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. Jesus h balls, one incident doesn't make ANYONE a neocon. nt
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. I Apologize- I Was Trying To Be Ironic.
eom
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
30. DONE !!!!
O'REILLY: "Impact segment" tonight, ground fighting in Lebanon seems
to get more intense. Reporting on the ground is far more difficult in the
Middle East than say Iraq because Israel and Hezbollah generally keep
reporters far away from the action, while the USA, of course, allows
journalists up front.

Our people say that the action today was very intense. With us now,
journalist Dan Rather.

Here's the problem with this reportage on the - and you know this as
well as anyone. Pictures tell the story, but the pictures don't really
give you any perspective. So Qana, when you have dead babies, and now
there are charges that that footage is staged, you know, that the babies
were brought back and in and out. And one of them had rigor mortis. They
influence public opinion like crazy, whereas OK, maybe it was an accident.
We don't know. The justification for the war is you've got to win the war,
right?

DAN RATHER, FORMER CBS NEWS ANCHOR: Well, I think it's important to
keep in mind what you said the pictures tell a story. They don't tell the
story. And television has tremendous advantages. Pictures can take you
there, really transport you right there.

But television - from a person who spent a great deal of my
professional life in it, I think I know its strengths and weaknesses. Its
weakness is depth. And what's missing in most war coverage is context,
perspective, background, history, and analysis. Television, depending so
heavily on pictures.

And even when someone is delivering analysis or some good on the
ground reporting, the tendency is to label what we call wallpaper. Just
take stock footage.

O'REILLY: Yes, (INAUDIBLE).

RATHER: Behind it. And what gets lost doesn't get reported is the
bigger picture. An example, Israel now has a border with Iran effectively,
a sworn enemy and a very powerful one like Israel has butted up against
Israel in southern Lebanon.

O'REILLY: Because Hezbollah is doing their bidding.

RATHER: Exactly. Metaphorically, Israel now has a border with Iran.
I don't think that's widely understood. I also don't think it's widely
understood that this is a power play. It does involve, of course, Israel,
Hezbollah, and the United States. There's a big power play between the
Saudis on one side and the Iranians on the other.

Iran is rapidedly expanding power. Right now, in my opinion, the big
winner in Gulf War II, up to and including now has been the Iranians.
They spread their influence enormously through the region, not just in
southern Lebanon.

O'REILLY: Yes, tied us down in Iraq. And now are thinking they're
ahead.

But here's the problem with American reportage. Some networks give
moral equivalency to Hezbollah in their reporting of this war.

RATHER: I agree that that's a problem.

O'REILLY: Do you agree it happens?

RATHER: I agree it happens. And I agree it's a problem. It's a
problem that those of us in journalism have been reluctant to address. I
do not exclude myself from this criticism. Reluctant to address that
Hezbollah is a terrorist organization.

O'REILLY: Right.

RATHER: It's committed to the destruction of Israel. It isn't
committed to trying to just gain territory. It's committed to its
destruction.

O'REILLY: Right. So they don't want peace, Hezbollah. I mean, a
ceasefire helps Hezbollah.

RATHER: It may very well help Hezbollah.

O'REILLY: Of course it does.

RATHER: And that's part of what Israel's dilemma is at the moment.
How long could it keep going with what it's going now. Already, you know,
there's talk of, well, will the ceasefire be over - be in effect in a week
or in two weeks?

O'REILLY: Well, it depends on how well they do on the ground.
They're putting a buffer zone in. They're going to wipe out these
missiles. And that's their mandate.

But see, what upsets me is the moral equivalency that some networks
give.

RATHER: Yes.

O'REILLY: Not us. And then Iraq, for example, confusing, complicated
situation that anti-Bush people slap a lose tag on. It's a loser. That's
it, it's a loser.

RATHER: Well, it's not necessarily in the long pull of history a
loser. But - and you and I may disagree about this, the news from Iraq,
any way you cut it, has not been good.

O'REILLY: No, absolutely right.

RATHER: For a very, very long time. And there are real questions
about -- set aside the question whether we should have gone to Iraq in the
first place, which is a big set aside. Has the war been conducted.

O'REILLY: The way it should be?

RATHER: .implemented in the way it should?

O'REILLY: All right, we're going to continue our conversation with
Mr. Rather.

And then, Geraldo on whether the shark frenzy surrounding Mel Gibson
is completely out of control. We'll have him and Mr. Rather upcoming.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'REILLY: Continuing now with Dan Rather. Here's my problem on the
Iraq reportage. I agree with you that the war has not been waged in the
way it should have been. And many, many mistakes have been made. And you
can blame -- put the blame wherever you want. And I think that's
legitimate as certainly as a discussion.

But the hatred, the hatred that has been brought to the discussion is
way out of line.

RATHER: If you.

O'REILLY: We're a noble country.

RATHER: Yes.

O'REILLY: We are noble.

RATHER: Absolutely.

O'REILLY: We are doing a good thing in Iraq. And these people who
hate Bush so much and then put that brand on us that we're the oppressors,
we're the bad guys, we kill people for oil, those are disgraceful people.

RATHER: If you're going to talk about hatred, it goes both ways.
And hatred begets hatred. And you know, Bill, and I think you'll
acknowledge that on the other side of this equation, what you might call
the pro-Bush side of the equation is a deep and abiding hatred for people
on the other side.

Now what's happened fairly recently in this country is the
polarization of the country - and it's something you have to worry about
with a world in crisis. And the United States of America in deep trouble
in a lot of ways, Iraq being only part of it. A war against terrorism
being the overarching part of it.

We need -- you know, it's not by accident that our slogan in this
country, written on our money and our buildings in Washington, "united we
stand." The idea, because someone disagrees with your political point of
view or your ideological point of view, that you must hate them and you
must vow to destroy them, I would say is not consistent with the American
character.

O'REILLY: It isn't. And it hurts us on the war on terror because the
terrorists believe we don't have the will to fight them, because we're
divided. But I have never seen so much vitriol. And I mean, they worked
Clinton over within an inch. You know that. You're in the chair. But
they hate Bush twice as much as the Republicans hated Clinton.

RATHER: I disagree with that.

O'REILLY: Oh, boy, you should -- well, then go on -- you're working
for the blogs now. You'll see it. I mean, it's -- and if you give the
Bush administration a fair shot, they come after you. I mean, the
Republicans never did that in the Clinton days.

Anyway, all right, be that as it is, I want to get to Fidel Castro.
You know Castro. He's a cutthroat in my opinion, am I wrong?

RATHER: He's a dictator. There's no question about it.

O'REILLY: I think he's a cutthroat. He's a murderer.

No question, his record is very clear in that record. I would
recommend with Cuba, I'm not an expert on Cuba. I've been there many
times. I have interviewed Fidel Castro eight times, maybe nine.

But No. 1, things are rarely as they appear to be, particularly in
dictatorships such as that. We don't know what the situation is in Cuba
now. Is Castro dead? I think it's a possibility, not a probability.

What they've perfected is a transition. If it turns out that they
need a temporary transition where they get to try out the post-Castro era,
and if it goes down pretty well internally, not externally, they'll stick
with it. If not, if Castro is able to come back on later.

I think the important -- this is where the context is so important,
Bill. That Cuba fits into an underreported story in my judgment. There's
a battle being waged for control and influence of Northern South America
with Hugo Chavez in Venezuela.

O'REILLY: You bet.

RATHER: Chavez and Castro are two of a kind. And this is an alliance
that's very dangerous...

O'REILLY: You bet.

RATHER: ... for the United States of America. And I read something
the other day. Somebody said Chavez's influence is on the wane. I don't
think there's any empirical evidence...

O'REILLY: You're not buying $3 billion in arms from Putin, our pal
Putin. I've got to ask you, what is this Internet thing you're doing with
Mark Cuban, the owner of the Dallas Mavericks? The Internet guy, or what
are you going to do?

RATHER: Well, I'm going work for HDNet, high definition. Premium
super high definition.

O'REILLY: And you're going to do what?

RATHER: "Dan Rather Reports", a weekly program.

O'REILLY: This is on -- this is on cable?

RATHER: It's on cable or satellite. You can get it either way.

O'REILLY: OK.

RATHER: High definition. Premium high definition hour. Hard-edged
field reports, investigating stories, and interviews. If you can arrange
for me to get an interview with the leader of North Korea, I'll be gone
before this program is over.

O'REILLY: OK. So you're just going to do what you always did, but
you're going to do it in a different venue?

RATHER: In a different venue. And not just as a venue with a
different attitude.

O'REILLY: A different attitude? You're going to be conservative guy?
Just kidding.

RATHER: I wouldn't bet the money on that. I wouldn't bet trade or
money on that.

O'REILLY: No.

RATHER: But you know Bill, hard news needs backer who don't back up.

O'REILLY: They need people who love it, and you love hard news. Like
you or not, you're a hard-news guy.

RATHER: You bet.

O'REILLY: You're welcome here any time, Mr. Rather.

RATHER: Thank you very much, Bill.

O'REILLY: Appreciate it. I enjoyed it.

When we come back, Geraldo will answer one simple question: is the
reportage on Mel Gibson sadistic?

And then a U.S. Marine is suing Congressman John Murtha, straight
ahead.

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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(www.voxant.com ), which takes sole responsibility for the accuracy of the
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litigation.>

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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
10. NOT.... Watch Democracy Now... Or Go To Their Website Today
even Peace-Keepers state that Hezbollah has targeted civilians! However, they did state that it's not close to what Israel is doing. Said there is blame on BOTH SIDES.

Personally, I think Israel OVER-Reacted myself. As I've stated before.... I'm don't really have a dog in the fight considering I'm pretty much non-denominational.. I'm just SICK of the killing and don't think Israel should have responded as they have. I wonder if they don't all just want to KILL everyone, Israel included!

If it weren't so devastating, it's almost likes kids playing ball with each other and one kid decides he going to take the ball and go home. Of course that's a COMPLETE over-simplification I know!!

www.DemocracyNow.org . If you don't have LINK or FSTV!
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
15. I seriously doubt it
Neocons have to walk in lock step and Dan has demonstrated time and time again that he marches to the beat of his own drummer.
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
20. He is a enlightened, thinking person.
That is totally incompatible with being associated with neoconservatism in any manner. I have to agree with his assessment that Hezbolla is funded & enabled by the Iranians. Iraq will end up being a Shia theocracy or part of will, Syria is in Iran's camp, but may or may not be dragged/coaxed into this war. Lebanon, well, it's a work in progress.

And Dan, he has a home in Austin, his daughter is leading environmental & political activist around these parts. I think that you are simply misconstruing the meaning of his words. I need to see the transcript, but I sure that the mystery will be cleared and that no one should be angry.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. I Was Trying To Be Ironic
Dan Rather took a position that can be arguably be attributed to the neocons but that doesn't mean that position is wrong.

Yes, he also said we have empowered Iran by eliminating two of their arch enemies-the Taliban and Saddam.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. I'll Kick On That Sentiment!!
Plus... it's BILL O'LIE-lly after all! I "think" I understand why people who think like we do appear on FOX, but I doubt I would ever want to "go there" myself. I know Clark appears there a lot, but I've never watched myself.

Geez, I won't even let The Idiot on my TV! I'm terribly biased though!!!

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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Two Small Points
Wes Clark is a paid FOX consultant and he also argues from the premise that Hezbollah is prosecuting Iran's war against Israel.


I hope I'm not challenged to spend another $9.95 to find the transcript to prove that.


One can criticize Israel's actions imho but it's foolish to believe Iran is a benign force in the region. Sometimes the enemy (Bush)* of my enemy ( Ahmednejad) is my enemy.


*I only use enemy for illustrative purposes.

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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. A REASON For Diplomacy!
I just posted this at another thread. We CAN'T keep starting and flaming wars!

Maybe it's too late for diplomacy now, but I have watched quite a few programs on LINK or FSTV, and have seen that many younger Iranians ARE NOT happy with their leader. If America would just stop and reflect, or even READ for that matter, many might see a different picture.

Iran has a VERY large younger generation and even though they are being held down, I think an uprising is possible. So many don't want more war. Anyway, that's what the shows I've watched have reported and I believe Alternative and Foreign news more than I do our own!!

Amy Goodman does a very fine job of digging into these things. Plus Robert Fisk is another person who has reported on this area for many many years and lives in Beirut.

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Meshuga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
29. What...
a dumb post! Really!
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